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Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 65
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

The Oxnard Riddle Explained - Page 2 Empty The Oxnard Riddle Explained

Fri 30 Oct 2009, 9:00 am
First topic message reminder :

Parker Sullivan
Sullivan was President of the General Telephone Company in Santa Monica, California. On the morning of November 22, 1963, two of his experienced operators would overhear the forecasting of the death of JFK at 10:30AM (12:30PM in Dallas).

Sullivan, upon learning of this, contacted the FBI at 11:35AM.[1]

Mrs Doris M Bliss and Mrs Jean M Shores

Special Agent John E Keane was dispatched to obtain statements from the two operators. SA Keane was advised that Mrs Bliss, operating a toll call board, could hear a "fuzzy" sound indicating someone had a receiver off the hook, but that she had got no response when identifying herself as an operator. Then, upon hearing someone whispering, the women related how Mrs Bliss had called Mrs Shores to listen in as it seemed the person may be in trouble. It was now around 10:07 AM local time.[2]

Who was the Caller?
The caller has never been, and is unlikely to ever be, identified. The General Telephone Company at the time said the call could not be traced. All that is known is that the call originated in the Oxnard-Camarillo region and was made by a female who sounded middle-aged.[3]

How Did the Caller Sound?
Despite what some have written over the years, the caller was not at any stage hysterical. The caller was described as whispering in a rapid manner which indicated to the operators that she was reciting something that was written. When Mrs Bliss interrupted to ask if she could be of assistance, the woman replied in a clear and normal voice before returning to her "recital" in what was now described as a "definite, rhythmic fast tempo".[4]

What Did the Caller Say?
After Mrs Shores joined Mrs Bliss on listening in, the caller dialled a few numbers and said faintly, "The President is going to die at 10:10". At hearing this, both operators looked up at the clock. The time was between 10:07 and 10:08. The caller, continuing in the same rapid whisper, next said, "the Justice, the Supreme Court, there's going to be fire in all the windows, the Government is going up in flames." The two operators thought that the woman then placed the receiver on a table and there was no background noise as she proceeded to dial between 12 and 15 digits. It was at this point that Mrs Bliss interrupted. The quite normal, clear and matter-of-fact reply to this offer of help had been, "No. I'm using the phone." The interruption thus cut short, the caller continued as previously described, this time naming at least 12 courts in order of importance from the Supreme Court on down before stating that "The President is going to die at 10:30." But that was not yet the end of it. The caller followed those statements up with yet another recital of the courts and the words, "The Government takes over everything lock, stock and barrel.” That was the last thing Mrs Shores could make out. However Mrs Bliss caught the words "thermostat", "rheostat" and "heostat" before the whispers became inaudible to her as well, and she released the line. The call had lasted an estimated 10 to 15 minutes.[5]

Other Facts
Another piece of misinformation which circulates about this incident is that the predicted death of JFK had been made to a party on the other end of the line. The facts are however, that both operators stated to the FBI that at no time was there ever any other party on the line and in their opinion, no connection to another party had actually even been made.[6]

Mental State

Mrs Bliss and Mrs Shores thought that the caller must have been mentally disturbed. This is possibly what has led to the factoid that the woman was "hysterical". At this point it would be useful to revisit what the two operators actually reported her as doing and saying. To paraphrase,

•the caller spoke in a low, rhythmic rapid whisper as if reciting from notes

•she dialled a series of digits immediately prior to both times in which
she made the assassination prediction

•she was speaking for the most part, with hands free due to placing receiver on a table or some other surface

•she was not talking to any other party

•when interrupted with an offer of assistance, she replied in a normal, clear voice, before immediately resuming her "recital"

•she repeated the names of all the courts a number of times

•she used the imagery of buildings on fire

•she ended this odd behavior with the names of controls for heat and energy

The above facts brought to mind some of the practices of Wiccans, Rosicrucian and other fringe groups and cults, and so it was along such lines that further inquiry took me.

Radionics originated in San Fransisco through the experiments conducted by Albert Abrams during the early 20th century. Originally meant as a means of remote diagnosis,[7] it can allegedly be used to remotely affect any "target" in any way desirable. A radionics device has three (external) working parts: a power source (your mind); an intention (what you want to affect) and; a "target" (place/person/object the energy is directed toward).[8] Rosicrucians (AMORC) are among a number of groups who practice and teach radionics.[9] One other believer was an inventor named Arthur Young. Young was also the step-father of Michael Paine, and had arranged for Michael to work as an engineer at Bell Helicopter.[10] Young, who had conducted radionics experiments with Frances Farrelly, took things to another level by declaring that "it was the mind of the operator that made the device function, and that it was the symbolic form of the device that dynamically functioned to make it work." This appeared particularly significant since others had discovered they could make the device work even though disconnected from its power supply. Thus, anything in fact that might substitute for the device could substitute, including a drawing of one. And so it was with the target. Where once it was thought you needed a sample of say, blood or hair from the target, now a photo or a signature would suffice.

The Ends and the Means
This was the heading used in an article published by Rosicrucian Forums magazine during 1963. The article stated that concentration was the most important tool available to the Rosicrucian and goes on to describe it as the "directing of mental processes toward a certain end. We are focusing those processes and powers upon a certain object in order to bring about a situation which we believe is to our advantage and will be to our satisfaction."

Was the Caller Using Radionics?
I believe she was using radionics or a similar means of remotely affecting the assassination. I have no opinion on whether it works. At this point, that is less important than the fact that the woman believed it worked, and that she had prior knowledge of what was about to happen in Dallas. This leads to a further question: was she trying to ensure the success of the assassination, or trying to prevent it? I believe that the totality of her invocations suggests she was trying to ensure success.

Expert Opinion
As research leads into areas of little personal knowledge, it is often wise to seek expert opinion as a guide to whether you are "on the right track". This is one of those areas, and as such I contacted Ellis Peterson, a retired maths professor and electrical engineer who writes on such esoteric practices as radionics under the pen-name, Ragnar Storyteller. I wrote to Ellis giving an outline of what I was looking into (but careful not to include anything about the assassination prediction lest it color his reply) and asking his opinion on what was happening. His reply in part was that “she was performing some kind of mental radionics magic; the phone numbers were her way of making the connection. Fire and windows were probably part of her personal incantations."

Oxnard-Camarillo Circa '63
The Oxnard-Camarillo region during the Cold War could not look more like an Oliver Stone meets M. Night Shyamalan movie set if it tried.

The area was home to:
•A Rosicrucian (AMORC) "Pronaos" (in theosophy the term "from the crypt to the pronaos" indicates the start and the end of the process by which thought can be materialized). Here then, the name itself proclaims it as the place where all your wishes can literally be made come true. The address to go? 346 North H St.[11]
•The Port Hueneme Naval Surface Weapons Center The Oxnard Air Force Base - cited as the source of UFO sightings in the area during the 1950s and '60s
•The Camarillo State Mental Hospital

RFK - An Afterword
There was a second prediction, probably very much lamented, made by Harold Weisberg. Weisberg said that RFK would be killed if he ever started checking into JFK's death. It seems that Bobby paid a visit to Oxnard to look into this mysterious call.[12] He was shot and killed the next day, allegedly by a "lone nut" - and a member of the Rosicrucians (AMORC).

[1] Commission Document 1107 - FBI Gemberling Report of 15 May 1964, pp82-3
[2] Ibid
[3] Ibid
[4] Ibid
[5] Ibid
[6] Ibid
[7] Wikipedia entry for Radionics [8] Email to author from Ellis Peterson, July 11, 2008
[9] Rosicrucian (AMORC) Digest, 1943
[10] Arthur M Young Essay, Science, Spirit & The Soul, 1985
[11] Rosicrucian (AMORC) Digest, 1957 (with street address) - still listed in Oxnard in following years, but without street address
[12] For details of RFK's efforts in Oxnard to find out about the call, see Peter Noyes, Legacy of Doubt, pp23

Last edited by greg parker on Sat 28 Nov 2009, 9:22 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : formatting)

Posts : 8320
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 65
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

The Oxnard Riddle Explained - Page 2 Empty Re: The Oxnard Riddle Explained

Sun 13 Mar 2022, 11:39 am
Several clues lead me to a differing conclusion.
“Please get off the line; I’m using the phone.”
Typical of shared phones not speaking with an operator. Caller at this time was connected. Connected with the operator. Best an operator can do is pull her key back. Leaving the line open.
Mrs. Bliss asked if she could be of assistance. Though unstated, she would have identified herself at that time as a switch operator. According to the report, the reply had been, "No, I'm using the phone." 

So not only did she not ask for the operators to get off the line, my impression is that she did not give a toss who was listening in, so long as they refrained from interrupting her "rhythmic, fast tempoed" whispered invocation. An invocation she went through twice - once for the 12:10 prediction and once for the 12:30 prediction. 

I do agree there are differing interpretations that can be put on this document

To the two operators, the caller was "mentally disturbed" and that consideration seemed to over-ride the fact that she correctly predicted the exact time of JFK's death - within minutes of it happening. 

Others since have claimed the caller was Karen Kupcinet trying to warn someone.

Then you've got the likes of the Gilbride whose thoughts on the matter are laid out in this thread.  And now your interpretation (which has similarities to the Gilbride's take).

Maybe if others read the document, they might like to add to the list of possibilities. It will always be the case however, that some scenarios are going to be more likely than others. It all depends on how well the scenarios match up and make sense of the available data. 

the voice which sounded like that of a middle aged woman replied, “No, I’m using the phone”. This reply was in a clear, normal voice and did not appear to indicate anything unusual."

These all appear to be:
Caller doesnt hear Bliss say "operator" at beginning  ,receiver is off ,,when fuzzy sounds (Ham Radio?) are heard.
When asked or interrupted she responds in a 'Normal'.voice. She changes her tone as though someone picked up.the party line.
Someone she wanted to get off the line and wanted to sound normal to.
It seems she didnt know she was being listened to before this ie receiver off as noted by Bliss.

Just my opinion again, but to me, her reverting to a normal speaking voice is a "tell". Why was she not using a normal speaking voice all along? People who are hysterical, emotional or nervous because they have enormously important, dagerous, or terrible news they are trying to impart, cannot just switch off that emotion and suddenly speak in a normal voice.  What the operators were describing was more akin to someone reading a film script in character and being interrupted and immediately switching out of character. In fact, there ya go. Another possible (tho improbable) scenario!

This leads to another thought: there was no emotion in her voice that was noted. That and the rhythmic fast-tempoed whispering to me, along with the actual words and structure being used, screams of black magick ritual. 

Ritual perhaps... 
Or a lady who blabbed and was overheard.
This is perhaps more factual than any ceremony.
She read off something.
She dialed and refused help at that point.
Only thing of interest is Bliss said the woman had laid the receiver down for the dialing and yet still hears Bliss ask her if she needs assisstance.
No Ouija boards no magic breads.
Just an open receiver and a ungrateful psychic.

Blabbed to who... about what, specifically? She was not connected to anyone. The dialling was, again in my opinion, not an attempt to actually phone anyone. It was just all part of the ritual. Numbers have great power to such types. And I don't think anyone had 12 to 15 digit phone numbers.

So was the rain dance to make it rain
I believe that is what SHE believed.

or just play along so if it did rain credits due?
Who is she going to get credit from except any co-conspirators who helped with this by communicating with her from Dallas?

Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
The Cold War ran on bullshit.

"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
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