Oswald ACLU application and attached letter

Tue 06 Aug 2013, 12:57 pm

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=145240
See bottom of page two.

I have been looking all day for any copy of the original application and letter and can't find them.

Does anyone have any information? If they are not in the records, do we know why they're not?

Oswald Oddity # 63.488: The note requests information on how to contact any ACLU groups in his area... but it was dated about 9 days after his alleged attendance at the DCLU meeting with Mike Paine....

Tue 06 Aug 2013, 5:42 pm

greg parker wrote:https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=145240
See bottom of page two.

I have been looking all day for any copy of the original application and letter and can't find them.

Does anyone have any information? If they are not in the records, do we know why they're not?

Oswald Oddity # 63.488: The note requests information on how to contact any ACLU groups in his area... but it was dated about 9 days after his alleged attendance at the DCLU meeting with Mike Paine....

Greg,

I'll look around and see if I can come up with anything.

Tue 06 Aug 2013, 7:24 pm

Thanks Hasan.

I actually think the two items have disappeared, but I'll be happy to be wrong. I know they were sent for hand-writing analysis... but from there, the trail goes cold.

Fri 15 Nov 2013, 2:09 am

Fri 15 Nov 2013, 4:50 am

Interesting differences between the printed names?

Fri 15 Nov 2013, 6:50 pm

ianlloyd wrote:Interesting differences between the printed names?

Ian,

My best guess would be that the writing on the bottom of the letter is not Oswald's. It looks like it was written by the same person who wrote "$2" underneath the stamp identifying the date of receipt on the letter so possibly someone from the ACLU?

I don't believe the envelope exists so I assume we are being led to believe that Oswald wrote his name and P.O. Box on the envelope as a return address and then this was transferred over to the letter for administration purposes or it was copied directly from the membership application.

The problem with the ACLU application documents is the length of time we are told it took the ACLU to process them.

I believe you are right that the writing at the bottom of the letter is not Oswald's known handwriting.

I'm sure I've read a document in the past that claimed there was an ACLU membership card found in Oswald's P.O. Box after the assassination or am I going stark raving bonkers?

Fri 14 Oct 2016, 7:06 pm

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=rpQlAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DPMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3755%2C2699118

Oswald ACLU application and attached letter Acluos10

What is the ACLU?
- How do I join the ACLU?
- I'm already an ACLU member. How can I contribute now?
- I care about the issues. What can I do?
- I feel my rights were violated. Who can help?
- How do I reprint ACLU materials?
- Who works at the ACLU?
- Where can I find out about jobs, internships and volunteer opportunities at the ACLU?
- I recently joined the ACLU but I haven't received my card yet.
- Why do I get renewal and join mailings even though my membership is current?
- I am a member. How do I update or correct my contact information with the ACLU membership office?
- I do not want the ACLU to share my name and mailing address with other charities. What do I need to do to guarantee that?
- I want to change the emails I receive from the ACLU. What should I do?
- I am having trouble with my password. What should I do?
About This Web Site
- What's available on ACLU.org?
- What is your Web site's privacy policy?
- Is the ACLU website secure and do you use "cookies"?
- What is a plug-in and what plug-ins are required to view the Web site?
- How do I find a topic I'm looking for?
- How do I make ACLU.org my homepage using Firefox?
- How do I make ACLU.org my homepage using Internet Explorer?
ACLU Issues
- What is the PATRIOT Act?
- What is the ACLU's position on affirmative action?
- Is the ACLU against religion?
- Does the ACLU have Communist roots? Was co-founder Roger Baldwin a Communist?
- Why did the ACLU represent NAMBLA?
- What is the ACLU's position on the Second Amendment?
- Why does the ACLU want to remove crosses from federal cemeteries?
- Why does the ACLU object to federal employees bowing their heads?
- What is the ACLU's position on campaign finance after the Supreme Court's
Violation of Rights
- I was detained at the airport. What can I do?
- I believe my rights were violated at the airport. What can I do?
- Can my school dictate my appearance?
- I'm concerned about my civil liberties. What can I do?
- Can my employer make me take a drug test?

What is the ACLU?

The American Civil Liberties Union was founded in 1920 and is our nation's guardian of liberty. The ACLU works in the courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to all people in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Read more about the history and mission of the ACLU.

How do I join the ACLU?

The need has never been greater for freedom-loving people to join the ACLU. You can join online, by telephone 1-888-567-ACLU, or by sending a check to ACLU Membership Department, 125 Broad Street, 18^thfloor, New York, NY 10004. Take a stand against the growing threats to our most cherished Constitutional liberties.

I'm already an ACLU member. How can I contribute now?

The ACLU accepts donations online, by telephone 1-888-567-ACLU, or by sending a check to ACLU Membership Department, 125 Broad Street, 18^thfloor, New York, NY 10004. You can also join the Action Network to hear about pressing issues. Please visit the Action Center, where you will find a wealth of resources to keep you informed and involved.

I care about the issues. What can I do?

The ACLU Action Center has a number of current action alerts that help you take action on a range of important issues. You can also join the ACLU Action Network and subscribe to weekly action alerts on the key issues and send free faxes to your members of Congress.

I feel my rights were violated. Who can help?

Contact your local ACLU affiliate about your experience.

How do I reprint ACLU materials?

Unless specifically labeled otherwise, materials presented on ACLU.org using the Adobe Acrobat ".pdf" format are intended for no cost or at cost distribution. Requests for commercial reproduction of ACLU catalogues and other ACLU-generated materials that are not in the public domain should be emailed to permissions@aclu.org. For specific parameters on reprinting ACLU materials, read Copyright and the American Civil Liberties Union Web site.

Who works at the ACLU?

Read about the ACLU's leaders and staff who work to defend and preserve individual rights and liberties.

Where can I find out about jobs, internships and volunteer opportunities at the ACLU?

You can find descriptions of our available positions at affiliate offices and national headquarters on the Career Opportunities page. To learn more about volunteering for the ACLU or if you are an attorney interested in offering your services pro bono, please contact your local ACLU affiliate.

I recently joined the ACLU but I haven't received my card yet.

If you have recently become a member of the ACLU and are waiting to receive your member card in the mail, please note that it takes about 3-4 weeks to process a new membership application and card. If more than 4 weeks have passed and you have still not received your card, please contact membership@aclu.org or call 212-549-2585.

Why do I get renewal and join mailings even though my membership is current?

The membership department sends out renewal notices before your membership expires to ensure there is no gap in your membership status. If you are concerned about notices you are receiving, please contact the ACLU's membership department by e-mail or telephone (1-212-549-2585).

ALCU site does imply the acceptance of your application is when your membership starts, the card is an formality of processing the application, ... so they can make and send the card.

Think of it this way. I called to start curb side trash service with a company. They accept my information and send out an letter with instructions. I received my letter in the afternoon on the same day the neighborhood set out trash in the morning which was collected before my letter arrived. I called and asked when the billing started, I was told when I called and set it up rather than the first pickup after the letter was mailed. If a person is signing up new voters, you sign all the forms, and he hands you a receipt, are you registered? (nothing could possibly be entered into any database yet, but is that the issue????)

Fri 14 Oct 2016, 7:22 pm

OLDS stated that after it had been reported in the newspapers

that OSWALD was a member of the ACLU, he tried to verify this

fact and finally determined from the New York Office that

an application for membership had been submitted by OSWALD

to New York. This application had been received in New York

• he believed on. November 4, 1963. OLDS stated that he has no

. idea where the application form had come from unless OSWALD

.1had picked up this form at a meeting of the ACLU on October

25, 1963. He has heard from some source, name not recalled,.

that OSWALD did attend a meeting of the ACLU on the night

of October 25, 1963, which meeting was held on the campus

of Southern Methodist University (SMU). It is believed by

Mr. OLDS that OSWALD was brought to this meeting by MICHAEL

PAINE. He has intended to talk to PAINE about.OSWALD but

has not'had an opportunity. He advised that he, OLDS, was

present at the meeting on October 25, 1963, and does not re-

call seeing OSWALD and certainly does not recall him entering

into any discussions. He has heard, but once again he

cannot recall the source, that OSWALD did have something to

say at this meeting. Hes however, does not know what OSWALD

was supposed to have said.

OLDS stated he has not made any investigation re-

garding OSWALD but he has been following the background of

OSWALD through the press with the intention of learning every-

thing about him that he can. He stated he could not furnish

any information at all regarding OSWALD since he did not

meet him and stated he does not know JACK RUBY and knows of

no association between RUBY and OSWALD.

He does not know of any other ACLU meetings which

OSWALD might have attended and stated the only person other

than PAINE he knows that might have talked to OSWALD at the

meeting was a Reverend BYRD HELLIGAS, 4012 St. Andrews Drive,

Dallas. He does not believe, however, that HELLIGAS can

furnish any information regarding OSWALD and believes that

HELLIOAS Just either spoke to him or was introduced to him.

Fri 14 Oct 2016, 7:24 pm

So application has arrived in NY on the 4th of Nov. at the headquarters of ACLU.

And it seems they "processed" the $2 by the marks.

Sat 15 Oct 2016, 10:47 am

Ed, let's add that when Olds was told LHO was a member, he phoned head office and was told they could find no evidence for it. They then went to press DENYING any membership by him. Only after that was the unprocessed application found. So they then had to back to the press for a public humiliation.

It's bullshit. What sort of search was initially conducted that doesn't check unprocessed applications for someone who had only allegedly had contact with them in the last month? Or doesn't check that pile anyway just for the sake of thoroughness?

Sat 15 Oct 2016, 8:34 pm

Do you think there is any significance in the home address listed for the Post Office box application for Box 6225 on November 1, 1963?

This is Holmes Exhibit# 1 in vol. 20 of the Hearings and Exhibits p. 172.

The home address listed appears to be 3610 N. Beckley

I did a quick Google Maps search and this looks like where N. Beckley dead ends into Singleton Blvd.

Does anyone know of any other mention in the records of this address?

Nov. 1st is in that two-week time period, aside from his work at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, where Oswald seems to have gone incommunicado as far as his living conditions.

Marina was asked about it. She didn't know. So was Dennis Ofstein. He didn't know either.

Steve Thomas

Sat 15 Oct 2016, 9:37 pm

Steve Thomas wrote:Do you think there is any significance in the home address listed for the Post Office box application for Box 6225 on November 1, 1963?

This is Holmes Exhibit# 1 in vol. 20 of the Hearings and Exhibits p. 172.

The home address listed appears to be 3610 N. Beckley

I did a quick Google Maps search and this looks like where N. Beckley dead ends into Singleton Blvd.

Does anyone know of any other mention in the records of this address?

Nov. 1st is in that two-week time period, aside from his work at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, where Oswald seems to have gone incommunicado as far as his living conditions.

Marina was asked about it. She didn't know. So was Dennis Ofstein. He didn't know either.

Steve Thomas

Boy, did I screw up. I had my years totally wrong.

The PO Box thing was 1963
The JCS employment was 1962.

Jeez

Steve Thomas

Sat 15 Oct 2016, 10:01 pm

Steve Thomas wrote:

Steve Thomas wrote:Do you think there is any significance in the home address listed for the Post Office box application for Box 6225 on November 1, 1963?

This is Holmes Exhibit# 1 in vol. 20 of the Hearings and Exhibits p. 172.

The home address listed appears to be 3610 N. Beckley

I did a quick Google Maps search and this looks like where N. Beckley dead ends into Singleton Blvd.

Does anyone know of any other mention in the records of this address?

Nov. 1st is in that two-week time period, aside from his work at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, where Oswald seems to have gone incommunicado as far as his living conditions.

Marina was asked about it. She didn't know. So was Dennis Ofstein. He didn't know either.

Steve Thomas

Boy, did I screw up. I had my years totally wrong.

The PO Box thing was 1963
The JCS employment was 1962.

Jeez

Steve Thomas

Steve, I screw up on a regular basis. I'd like to think though, that my "hits" make up for it. You're definifitely in that category, even if I only think I am!

Sat 15 Oct 2016, 11:07 pm

greg parker wrote:

Steve Thomas wrote:

Steve Thomas wrote:Do you think there is any significance in the home address listed for the Post Office box application for Box 6225 on November 1, 1963?

This is Holmes Exhibit# 1 in vol. 20 of the Hearings and Exhibits p. 172.

The home address listed appears to be 3610 N. Beckley

I did a quick Google Maps search and this looks like where N. Beckley dead ends into Singleton Blvd.

Does anyone know of any other mention in the records of this address?

Nov. 1st is in that two-week time period, aside from his work at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, where Oswald seems to have gone incommunicado as far as his living conditions.

Marina was asked about it. She didn't know. So was Dennis Ofstein. He didn't know either.

Steve Thomas

Boy, did I screw up. I had my years totally wrong.

The PO Box thing was 1963
The JCS employment was 1962.

Jeez

Steve Thomas

Steve, I screw up on a regular basis. I'd like to think though, that my "hits" make up for it. You're definifitely in that category, even if I only think I am!

Greg,

Thanks.

But, along the lines of my question...

WC testimony of Gary Taylor
WC Hearing and Exhibits Volume 9 pp 88-89
(I'm sorry, but the Forum software is back to not letting me include url links again for the moment).

Mr. JENNER, Excuse me. Do you recall being interviewed by two agents of the FBI on the 29th of January 1964.
Mr. TAYLOR. I think so.
Mr. JENNER. Would it refresh your recollection did you tell those agents at that time that you picked up Lee Oswald at the curb of the YMCA in Dallas and drove to Fort Worth to the Hall residence where Marina was living?
Mr. TAYLOR. Well, it is refreshing to my memory, but I would like to say this about it. That in the course of several interviews by the FBI, the Secret Service, and the Dallas Police Department which have occurred, and between these and since the last one, I have naturally tried to remember all that I can concerning the areas in which I was vague in my memory. And at my last interview concerning this one particular item, it occurred to me that at one time once I went to--uh--and looked for a place where Lee was staying in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas and tried to locate him. I remember going and trying to locate him. I don't remember whether I found him or whether I did not. I know that--uh----
Mr. JENNER. Can you pinpoint this as to time?
Mr. TAYLOR. No; that's the trouble. I can't pinpoint it as to time. I just remember some vague directions that----
Mr. JENNER. What about year--1962?
Mr. TAYLOR. 1962 definitely.
Mr. JENNER. And it had to be some time after----
Mr. TAYLOR. It had to be some time between September and November 15, because my wife and I separated after that. Anyway, at some point during this period, I do remember going to an area in Oak Cliff and looking for Lee. I don't think I found him--at least, not on the occasion I remember. All I had was some vague directions that----

88

Mr. JENNER. From whom?
Mr. TAYLOR. Well, directly from my wife but indirectly I believe that came to her from Mrs. De Mohrenschildt.
Mr. JENNER. Were you requested to seek to locate him?
Mr. TAYLOR. I don't know why I was trying to locate him. I don't remember anything except I remember driving around one area one evening looking for a residence of his on some vague directions. As I say, I don't even remember if it was a residence of the whole family or just of Lee. I went back to this area within the last few weeks and located a building that stuck--or I had a recollection of one building in this area and I went back to the area and found it and gave that information to Agent Yelchek of the FBI. I don't know what he----
Mr. JENNER. What location was that?
Mr. TAYLOR. I gave him the exact street address---but it seems to me like it was---well, the name of the apartment building was the Coz-I-Eight [spelling] C-o-z---I---E-i-g-h-t--apartments, and I think they were located at 1404 North Beckley. But the address I could be off on; but the name I do remember.

(I'm having a hard time right now locating that January 29^th Gary Taylor FBI interview.
Would you happen to have a citation for it?) It sounds like when Taylor was interviewed by Yelchak he couldn't remember the exact address and went out looking for it and got back in touch with Yelchak and provided it.

On January 29, 1964 Ofstein was interviewed by FBI Special Agents Allan Bray and Raymond Yelchak. “Mr. Ofstein advised he has no personal knowledge as to the residence of Lee Harvey Oswald
from the period of October 19 to November 3, 1962, during which time Oswald was working for Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.”

This is in the FBI Headquarters File, Section 84, page 67.

Looks like the FBI (in particular Agent Yelchak) was fanning out on January 29, 1964 trying to pin down where Oswald was living in those two weeks. I'm not sure they ever did have any luck.

In her Chronologies for October, 1962 (on page 78) Mary Ferrell locates the Coz-I-Eight apartments at 1306.N.Beckley.

Is it possible that Oswald (or someone posing as Oswald) who applied for a PO Box on November 1, 1963 remembered the apartment complex, but transposed the numbers?
And is there any significance to that apartment complex?

This wouldn't be the first time numbers were transposed. Oswald transposed the PO Box number on his August, 1963 FPFC handbills in New Orleans.

Steve Thomas

Sat 15 Oct 2016, 11:33 pm

Steve, here is the Taylor interview. Only had a quick read, but my impression is that it needs a deeper look.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57773&search=taylor#relPageId=58&tab=page

Sat 15 Oct 2016, 11:38 pm

P.S.

I am not trying to hijack this thread, but I'm trying to put this in a wider context.

I know that under the COINTEL Program, the FBI was doing everything it could to undermine and disrupt the FPFC and the ACLU and anything associating Oswald those two organizations makes me suspicious.

Besides the FBI, Revill wrote Captain Gannaway that the Criminal Section Section of the Special Service Bureau had "successfully infiltrated a number of organizations" and that their members were kept under surveillance. Among these were the Dallas Civil Liberties Union.
DPD Archives Box 13 Folder# 4 Item# 52.

I believe that knowingly or unknowingly, witting or unwittingly, FBI was using Oswald in their anti FPCC and ACLU COINTEL Program in August in New Orleans. They tried again in Dallas.

Steve Thomas

Sat 15 Oct 2016, 11:47 pm

Steve Thomas wrote:P.S.

I am not trying to hijack this thread, but I'm trying to put this in a wider context.

I know that under the COINTEL Program, the FBI was doing everything it could to undermine and disrupt the FPFC and the ACLU and anything associating Oswald those two organizations makes me suspicious.

Besides the FBI, Revill wrote Captain Gannaway that the Criminal Section Section of the Special Service Bureau had "successfully infiltrated a number of organizations" and that their members were kept under surveillance. Among these were the Dallas Civil Liberties Union.
DPD Archives Box 13 Folder# 4 Item# 52.

I believe that knowingly or unknowingly, witting or unwittingly, FBI was using Oswald in their anti FPCC and ACLU COINTEL Program in August in New Orleans. They tried again in Dallas.

Steve Thomas

Steve, there are certainly grounds to suspect something along the lines you suggest.

I wouldn't be surprised if the DCLU had more FBI stooges than real members.

The Paines, Frank Krystinik, Prof. Chuck Webster and Grier Raggio all come under suspicion.

Oswald ACLU application and attached letter