"Prayer Man" on the Education Forum

[ianlloyd]

First topic message reminder :

As I am not a member of the EF, I cannot post there but there is an interesting discussion going on there at the moment regarding a figure in the TSBD doorway generally referred to as "Prayer Man" due to the apparent position of his hands, seemingly clasped in front of his chest as if in prayer.
 
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354
 
I recall this person being discussed somewhere many years ago and was referred to as "Prayer Man" pretty much from the outset but I cannot recall where it originated, maybe on Lancer?
 
Anyway, the reason for this post is that, upon looking closely at the various photographs and movie clips presented as part of the discussion, it struck me that his hands don't seem to move from the "prayer" position for what seems to be quite some time. Was he holding something, I wonder? If so, it seems an odd way to hold whatever it was.

[beowulf]

Wow, great catch by Sean in Robin's high-res pic of Prayer Man (aka Lee?) and Frazier.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&page=42#entry277622

Now THIS, as they say, is actionable intel.
There's one crime that never has a statute of limitation, murder. Dallas DA could have grand jury call Frazier in next week and read him the aggravated perjury statute but note it only applies to what he says now. He's immune from prosecution for any past perjury because of the statute of limitation on that crime at both the state and federal level.

Ask him two questions: Is this you in photo?  Is this Lee Oswald in the photo? Depending on his answers to those, proceed accordingly.

[beowulf]

It seems to me, if anyone was escaping unheard and unseen via elevator or stairs, then options become very slim - this being one.

I reject the assumption anyone was escaping unheard and unseen. It wouldn't be hard for assassins to drop their guns and pull out their badges and walk around the building "looking for clues". After the shooting, there were officers from at least 5 different law enforcement agencies walking around TSBD (Police, Sheriff, FBI, Secret Service, and what's now called ATF), if you had a badge and looked the part, you could blend in before quietly slipping away.

[Hasan Yusuf]

I must say, that does look like Oswald and Frazier to me.

[GuestGuest]

Jim,

As you know, the key document regarding the TSBD layout is WCD 496. It shows that the freight elevators actually opened onto 8 floors (basement & floors 1-7), but the passenger elevator had no opening to the basement and opened only onto floors 1-4.

The NW stairwell, in the rear, went all the way from the basement up to an exit door in the roof. The FBI's 7th-floor diagram contains an error, as Jerry Dealey informed me in 2009. The "ladder to roof" is actually a ladder to a small 4-foot attic, described to me as a utility space for accessing pipes and other stuff. See p. 47 of WCD 496


TSBD clerk Pauline Sanders told the FBI on 11/24 (XXII p. 845) that "the stairwell is in need of repairs and employees had been instructed not to use the stairwell." So, effectively, because of the limited scope of the passenger elevator, floors 5, 6 and 7 were sequestered- available only to warehouse personnel.

The front lobby stairs only went up one flight, to the 2nd-floor offices. There was also another one-flight set of stairs,near the front of the building, that went down from the 1st floor to the basement. See p. 7 of WCD 496

They opened just to the left of the basement conveyor belt. See p. 6 of WCD 4

And I'm pretty sure Wesley Frazier used this set of stairs to go down to the basement for the last 10 minutes of his lunch break.

I'm letting Sean present the whole of his theory before I put in my two cents. He's done a brilliant job and, after all, he might be correct. I've been following it closely and am hanging right now on how he gets Dougherty down those NW stairs after he hears "a rifle shot" (singular); I don't see Sean's rationale for that, not yet.

Robin Unger has done a wonderful job cleaning up those Darnell frames and I have to cast my vote once again for Prayer Man being Lee Oswald; that hairline really shows up well in the cleaned images. And waddyaknow but isn't that Wesley Frazier up there beside Lee. I guess that's one less secret Wesley can take to his grave.

[greg_parkerAdmin]

It seems to me, if anyone was escaping unheard and unseen via elevator or stairs, then options become very slim - this being one.

I reject the assumption anyone was escaping unheard and unseen. It wouldn't be hard for assassins to drop their guns and pull out their badges and walk around the building "looking for clues". After the shooting, there were officers from at least 5 different law enforcement agencies walking around TSBD (Police, Sheriff, FBI, Secret Service, and what's now called ATF), if you had a badge and looked the part, you could blend in before quietly slipping away.

I said options were slim, not non-existent (apart from the elevator cables). This is certainly another possibility. Though they wouldn't be unheard and unseen, they become invisible as suspects.

My intent was to try and find some reason for Buell being in the basement. His various statements give differing answers as to where he usually ate his lunch. That surely could not be a difficult thing to remember. We also know the elevators stopped   during the time Buell was chomping on his sandwiches right next to the switches.

[greg_parkerAdmin]

Wow, great catch by Sean in Robin's high-res pic of Prayer Man (aka Lee?) and Frazier.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&page=42#entry277622

Now THIS, as they say, is actionable intel.
There's one crime that never has a statute of limitation, murder. Dallas DA could have grand jury call Frazier in next week and read him the aggravated perjury statute but note it only applies to what he says now. He's immune from prosecution for any past perjury because of the statute of limitation on that crime at both the state and federal level.

Ask him two questions: Is this you in photo?  Is this Lee Oswald in the photo? Depending on his answers to those, proceed accordingly.

Once again - great to have you here!

Now we know what needs to be done, the question becomes how to get it done. How do you get a DA to act?

[beowulf]

Now we know what needs to be done, the question becomes how to get it done. How do you get a DA to act?


This I don't know, the guy probably gets three calls a weeks w/ research breakthroughs that are, invariably, insane.  What works best is someone he trusts calling him and say, take a look at this, a grand jury already empaneled could spend a few minutes to take this up. You're covered either way, if Frazier doesn't pan out, the proceedings will remain secret. If Frazier does pan out, toss it back in the Feds lap and wash your hands of it-- the FBI did say they'd leave the case open forever. They'd have to prosecute it in state court, like they've done with civil rights murder cold cases, but you can worry about getting Feds cross-designated as Assistant District Attorneys when and if they cross that bridge.

Failing the private connection route, ping Robert Tanenbaum, Bob Blakey and other prominent lawyers and ask them in their experience, would it be advisable for the DA to call in to the grand jury a witness who's alive and of sound mind and who, newly discovered evidence suggests, could testify to a material fact in the Kennedy assassination? The answer is YESSSSSS.
Then ask if they could pass that tip on to the DA. )

[greg_parkerAdmin]

Don't know much about Tanenbaum, but I wouldn't piss in Blakey's ear if his brain was on fire. The man is despicable.

http://www.reopenkennedycase.net/1/post/2012/11/blakey-still-has-the-same-spots.html

[James DiEugenio]

Richard thanks for that explication.  That's what I thought except I was not aware of the stairs to the basement.

[beowulf]

Is this man (perhaps holding a Coke bottle)
https://i.imgur.com/6geAdfG.jpg

This man?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EcaME4iwvp8/SlZSGLKAVXI/AAAAAAAAAAs/Rqyqtsq-Tk0/s400/oswaldarrestteeshirt.jpg

[Redfern]

I don't buy the 'coercion' argument.

BRW and perhaps Eddie Piper were on the 6th floor to within a very few minutes of the assassination. Arnold Rowland said a man was openly wielding a rifle at this stage.

From the assassin's point of view, why let Williams and Piper anywhere near you in the first place? Even if you decided this was OK, why give them the chance of escaping in time to give a warning?

The two white men near the elevators on the first floor are surely also highly significant. If they weren't Shelley and Lovelady, then who were they?

If they were Shelley and Lovelady (as Virginia Adams said), then they ran around the TSBD to enter by the rear. It would obviously be hard to exclude them as accomplices in this case.

Added to this, the accepted time taken for Baker and Truly to reach the elevators would be a considerable underestimate.


The figure Baker said he saw near the stairs on the 3rd or 4th floor represents a huge conundrum.

Dorothy Ann Garner seemed sure that no-one came down the stairs in the relevant time frame. This casts doubt on the location Baker claimed in his affidavit. Could the man have been on the 5th floor?

Dougherty would be the obvious candidate but he appears to have borne little resemblance to the suspect.

In regard to Sean Murphy's argument, would Baker have had time to be fully briefed on the need to falsify his description? Even if he agreed to this, it would have been an incredible blunder by DPD officers orchestrating a cover-up to let Baker avoid any mention of Oswald, particularly as he was in the same room at the time.

The simplest explanation is that Baker saw an assassin and let him free on Roy Truly's word.

[greg_parkerAdmin]

Is this man (perhaps holding a Coke bottle)
https://i.imgur.com/6geAdfG.jpg

This man?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EcaME4iwvp8/SlZSGLKAVXI/AAAAAAAAAAs/Rqyqtsq-Tk0/s400/oswaldarrestteeshirt.jpg

Going from this image, I'd be happy to go with "coke bottle".

[beowulf]

A glass coke bottle in the penumbra of a shadow would reflect light even if the man holding it was himself in shadow.

A pity that particular shot (thanks to the efforts of Robin Unger and Sean Murphy) only showed up yesterday, Jim Garrison would have gone to town with that. )

[greg_parkerAdmin]

In some ways Garrison subverted his own case by letting certain individuals off the hook and not pursuing suspects/witnesses as thoroughly as he might have to get them before the courts.

Easy to say in hindsight, I know.

But my point is, if the consensus is strong that this is Oswald (and Frazier), we simply cannot let go. Caving in on having this investigated is not an option.

[James DiEugenio]

I forgot about Garner.

THat is a point in Sean's favor on that one.

Maybe he is right and Baker really saw no one.

[greg_parkerAdmin]

I forgot about Garner.

THat is a point in Sean's favor on that one.

Maybe he is right and Baker really saw no one.

Whoa there!

Sean may be right, but let's talk about Garner some more before going down that path.

Garner never said anything about being sure no one came down the stairs - let alone confirming any relevant time period.

A summary of her statements:

FBI interview March 20, 1964
Watched the motorcade from her desk through a window on the 4th floor. Three fellow workers were with her.
Did not recall seeing Lee Oswald at any time prior to the assassination
Did not recall seeing any strangers in the building on the morning of the assassination
Remained in the Scott Foresman offices until going home at 2:30
----------------------
Nothing there about seeing Truly and Baker - nothing about going to the store-room - nothing about anyone she may have seen in the commencement of the lunch break. All such references are to the morning.
--------------

-----------------
The Stroud Document, June 2, 1964.
Mrs Garner is quoted as saying that she had witnessed Baker and Truly  "come up".
------------------
Nothing there that she did not witness anyone "coming down" - nor anything to indicate she she even saw Baker and Truly arrive on the landing.
----------------------

Barry Ernest interview, June 27, 2011
Styles and Adams left the viewing window "straight away".
"Right after" that pair left, she went to a storage area behind the office and by the freight elevator. 
Could not recall why she went there other than to possibly get something.
Did not actually see the girls descend from the landing, but could hear them due to the stairs being very noisy
Couldn't recall if the elevators were operational
Saw Truly several times that day. but could not remember where and when
Saw a police officer OR officers on the stairs
-------------------------
Nothing there that is helpful in ruling out someone descending from the 6th  -- and fails to positively confirm the hearsay that she had seen Truly and Baker "coming up"

Bottom line - the Stroud document is the only evidence that she had seen Truly and Baker together. There is nothing to indicate she saw them on the landing. Her going to the storage room to get something is as bizarre as Frazier descending to the basement to eat alone after witnessing the assassination - and as bizarre as PM going up for a coke after witnessing the assassination. Unless she kept a pair of binoculars in the store room, I find that part hard to believe. I mean, who would do that? See the president get assassinated and then wander off to get office supplies to continue work?

I think she may have followed the girls out moments after they left and caught a glimpse of Truly and Baker coming up and then went back to join the others at the windows.

Alternatively, the story as told to Stroud by (probably) Adams was garbled and merely recounted the apocryphal Truly/Baker version as told by Garner and somehow, it was interpreted as Garner actually seeing them. If it was Adams who told Stroud, we don't even know how many "Chinese Whispers" it took to come to her ears.

[Redfern]

The significance of Dorothy Ann Garner's words in the Stroud document and her later comments to Barry Ernest are that they support Victoria Adams' version of events in regard to the timeline. If we accept that both were telling the truth then Shelley and Lovelady's presence on the first floor would mean that Baker and Truly could only have ascended the stairs or come up by elevator later than some think - and/or taken a different route.

Garner's sighting of Baker and Truly seems weaker (would she be able to distinguish the former anyway?) and there is no real indication of timing.


Mrs Garner didn't explicitly state that she heard or saw no-one descend the stairs or use the elevators in the immediate aftermath of Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles' descent but I'd have thought the context made this clear. She said she didn't recall the elevators being used although they were 'very noisy'.


Victoria Adams and Dorothy Garner are usually cited as proof Oswald could not have descended the stairs. But surely that applies to an alternative assassin too - at least within a minute or so of the shooting?

Given Dorothy Garner's account, isn't it also reasonable to rule out the 4th floor stairs (or nearby) as the location for Baker's confrontation with the suspect?

[greg_parkerAdmin]

The significance of Dorothy Ann Garner's words in the Stroud document and her later comments to Barry Ernest are that they support Victoria Adams' version of events in regard to the timeline. If we accept that both were telling the truth then Shelley and Lovelady's presence on the first floor would mean that Baker and Truly could only have ascended the stairs or come up by elevator later than some think - and/or taken a different route.

The problem for me is that the Stroud document may not be directly quoting Garner. It may be - but them it may also be 3rd or 4th hand hearsay. It is not helped by the fact that she could not specifically recall seeing Truly and Baker when interviewed by Barry Ernest years later.

Garner's sighting of Baker and Truly seems weaker (would she be able to distinguish the former anyway?) and there is no real indication of timing.

Distinguishable only by virtue of proximity to the venerable Truly. But we seem to agree that this part of the story is no lay down mazaire.

Mrs Garner didn't explicitly state that she heard or saw no-one descend the stairs or use the elevators in the immediate aftermath of Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles' descent but I'd have thought the context made this clear. She said she didn't recall the elevators being used although they were 'very noisy'.

Not hearing is only pertinent if she was there long enough to hear. I gather she was not in the area very long at all, otherwise would have been seen by Baker and/or Truly. What I get from her is that she caught sight of them coming up, at which time, she returned to the office windows. The sound of one person descending at the same time might not be heard over the noise of two coming up - and especially so given the motorcycle boots of Baker.

Victoria Adams and Dorothy Garner are usually cited as proof Oswald could not have descended the stairs. But surely that applies to an alternative assassin too - at least within a minute or so of the shooting?

I understand what you're saying here - I'm just disputing that the evidence as it stands is sufficient to use Garner in this way.

Given Dorothy Garner's account, isn't it also reasonable to rule out the 4th floor stairs (or nearby) as the location for Baker's confrontation with the suspect?

Not in my opinion. But I've been wrong before  

[Redfern]

Greg,

For years many people thought that Vickie Adams was way out with her estimate of the time it took for her and Sandra Styles to reach the first floor.

Barry Ernest's 2011 interview with Dorothy Ann Garner is a very strong indication that Adams was telling the truth - she got there very quickly.

The timing factor also indicates that Shelley and Lovelady (whom VA saw on the first floor) had acted in a very suspicious manner.

Adams didn't see either Baker or Truly. While they may have been ascending by elevator (although VA said she didn't hear any such movement), they could still have been at the TSBD entrance.

The latter view is supported by Baker's reference to two white men near the elevators when he approached.

It looks like BL/BS were first to arrive at the rear of the first floor, followed by VA/SS and then MB/RT.


I think this has to be decoupled from how Truly and Baker got to the upper floors and whether Garner saw them.

I reckon she did and that she would have seen any 4th floor encounter between Baker and a suspect given that much of this floor seemed be open-plan storage space, she was near the stairs and the TSBD was only 100 feet wide in any case.

[greg_parkerAdmin]

Greg,

For years many people thought that Vickie Adams was way out with her estimate of the time it took for her and Sandra Styles to reach the first floor.

Barry Ernest's 2011 interview with Dorothy Ann Garner is a very strong indication that Adams was telling the truth - she got there very quickly.

The timing factor also indicates that Shelley and Lovelady (whom VA saw on the first floor) had acted in a very suspicious manner.

Adams didn't see either Baker or Truly. While they may have been ascending by elevator (although VA said she didn't hear any such movement), they could still have been at the TSBD entrance.

The latter view is supported by Baker's reference to two white men near the elevators when he approached.

It looks like BL/BS were first to arrive at the rear of the first floor, followed by VA/SS and then MB/RT.


I think this has to be decoupled from how Truly and Baker got to the upper floors and whether Garner saw them.

Okay. I'm with you up to here. Assuming Garner's memory was reliable in 2011, this all looks good.

I reckon she did and that she would have seen any 4th floor encounter between Baker and a suspect given that much of this floor seemed be open-plan storage space, she was near the stairs and the TSBD was only 100 feet wide in any case.

Here's the problem. You've delayed Truly and Baker's ascent, despite the fact that they probably got inside the building quicker than the official time-line suggests- which in turn means you're extending the time Garner is in the area and in place not just to see them, but long enough to have seen any encounter. Since she does not mentioned any such encounter, you're assuming it never happened.

Let's look at some of the specifics of her interview with BE:

Being in the position she was as quickly as she was, I asked Mrs. Garner if she happened to notice the escaping assassin on the stairs.
She laughed at the question.
"No, I don't remember that.  I don't remember seeing him at all that day…except on TV."

The mention of "assassin" makes her zero in solely on whether she had seen Oswald. She did recall seeing a police officer OR officerS on the stairs.

Had she seen Roy Truly on November 22nd?
"I saw him several times that day," she said, but I'm not sure when or where."
How about a policeman accompanied by Truly coming up the stairs?
"I remember I saw a policeman or police officers on the stairs, yes."

Also, as I said previously, I just don't buy her reason for being back there. Who witnesses the assassination of a POTUS and decides they need to go to the storeroom for a pencil sharpener (or whatever it was she couldn't remember going back there for? She obviously has no specific memory of seeing Truly with an officer on the stairs and may be confusing it with what were a little later occurrences of officers going up and down.

She couldn't remember exactly why she went out there, other than to say, "probably to get something."  Mrs. Garner said she did not actually see "the girls" enter the stairway, though, arriving on the fourth-floor landing seconds after.  When I asked how she knew they had gone down, Mrs. Garner said, "I remember hearing them, after they started down.  I remember the stairs were very noisy."

After further thought, here's what I think happened. Either:

The 1964 document is most likely hearsay and is not accurate. Somewhere in the umteenth retelling, Garner becomes a witness to Truly and Baker coming up the stairs when she was no such thing, or

She had followed Adams and Styles to try and see where they went (which makes much more sense than picking up office supplies!)  but by then, they had already made it downstairs. The noise she is hearing is Truly and Baker making there way up. Meanwhile, she cannot hear the 6th floor UNSUB making his way down because the minimal noise he is creating is being well masked by the pair coming up. She deliberately lingers long enough to see who is on the stairs making all that racket. Catching a glimpse of Truly and Baker well before they hit the landing satisfies her curiosity and she immediately leaves the area to rejoin the other girls in the office, and is no longer in position to see any encounter unfolding.

A variation on the above: she does stay a little longer and sees the UNSUB talking with Baker and Truly and assumes him to be another cop (thus her memory of perhaps seeing more than one cop).

[GuestGuest]

Victoria Adams denied emphatically to Barry Ernest that she ever ran into Bill Shelley & Billy Lovelady once she'd descended the NW stairwell. "They weren't there" (The Girl on the Stairs p. 347. The implication was that David Belin, or someone acting on his behalf, had altered her testimony. They did this in order to create the impression that she actually had taken several minutes before she descended (since Shelley & Lovelady admitted running off to the railyard before re-entering the TSBD) and therefore would have missed Oswald's fictitious race down the stairs.

Adams is corroborated by a 2012 discovery by film ace Gerda Dunckel that shows Shelley & Lovelady leaving the TSBD front steps before Baker ever arrives there.

For further information see the threads "William Shelley: Betrayal and Perjury" and "Gordon Smith", both on p. 8 of the JFK topics.

Adams' failure to see Baker & Truly is a real rock to build every other witness statement around. Sean Murphy has been ingenious in suggesting that the reason was because B & T took the west elevator.

Adams got downstairs, by my rough estimation, 80-90 seconds after the first head shot (Z-313). And Truly & Baker arrived at the freight elevators at 50-60 seconds. i.e. it isn't plausible that she beat them to the freight elevators.

So, were they in the 2nd-floor lunchroom when she passed? Or in the west elevator?

Stay Tuned.

[James DiEugenio]

Nice one Richard.

BTW, if Truly and Baker took the passenger elevator, it would make possible for the story of Baker seeing the guy on the fourth floor, wouldn't it?

BTW, the latest stuff by Barry, especially the stuff about Belin's two tapes really nails down how dangerous she was to the WC and how they knew it and planned for her.

[greg_parkerAdmin]

I had only just read where Richard Hocking pointed the same thing out.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20401

Personally, I'm not happy in using statements of witnesses claiming their testimony or FBI reports have been changed. Not unless it can be backed up via lots of other sources. They may well be telling the truth, but most of the time, there is no such supporting evidence to back up the claim. It just creates debating points for the Nutters about witness credibility.

I'd prefer to avoid such self-inflicted pitfalls because it just overwhelms more credible data.

If Baker did not encounter anyone at all, on any floor at all, can someone please explain what happened to the person seen by Rowland and others? 

Rowland: The way he was standing it would have been in a position such as port arms in military terms. 

"Oswald" was seen doing "military turns" at the Stevenson demonstration.

"Oswald" is seen at "present arms" in the BY photos
-------------------
I will give this to those who think Baker made up the 4th floor encounter.

Occhus Campbell interview dated Feb 17, 1964: "...A uniform officer came up and at the same time a construction worker with a helmet on across the street and said he had seen a rifle barrel in the sixth floor window. I walked back in the building. Mr Truly and the officer had already gone in and up the stairs." 


Campbell is identifying Baker as the officer Brennan gave his description to.


Officially I believe it was Welcome Barnett. 

[beowulf]

Yeah, that is a very good point Richard. Adams kind of screws up everybody stairway timeline. Even with Sean's theory Jack Dougherty hit the stairs immediately after the first shot. Could he have burned smoke and oakum down past the 4th floor without anyone noticing?
My suspicion is that Dougherty's 5th floor activities are a red herring. More likely he was on or near the first floor while PIPER was on the 6th floor.  After the fact Truly (whether at behest of murder crew or coverup crew is unclear) talked Jack into switching places with Piper in his testimony to give him (Piper) an alibi.
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, then immediately I heard a loud noise---it sounded like a car backfiring, and I came back down to the first floor, and I asked Eddie Piper, I said, "Piper, what was that?" I says, "Has the President been shot?'. He said, "Yes.

It'd also make more sense that the guy who clearly heard three shots (Piper) was upstairs and the guy who heard only one shot was downstairs (to be fair, Jack probably was hard of hearing).

[Redfern]

Victoria Adams denied emphatically to Barry Ernest that she ever ran into Bill Shelley & Billy Lovelady once she'd descended the NW stairwell. "They weren't there" (The Girl on the Stairs p. 347. The implication was that David Belin, or someone acting on his behalf, had altered her testimony. They did this in order to create the impression that she actually had taken several minutes before she descended (since Shelley & Lovelady admitted running off to the railyard before re-entering the TSBD) and therefore would have missed Oswald's fictitious race down the stairs.

Adams is corroborated by a 2012 discovery by film ace Gerda Dunckel that shows Shelley & Lovelady leaving the TSBD front steps before Baker ever arrives there.

For further information see the threads "William Shelley: Betrayal and Perjury" and "Gordon Smith", both on p. 8 of the JFK topics.

Adams' failure to see Baker & Truly is a real rock to build every other witness statement around. Sean Murphy has been ingenious in suggesting that the reason was because B & T took the west elevator.

Adams got downstairs, by my rough estimation, 80-90 seconds after the first head shot (Z-313). And Truly & Baker arrived at the freight elevators at 50-60 seconds. i.e. it isn't plausible that she beat them to the freight elevators.

So, were they in the 2nd-floor lunchroom when she passed? Or in the west elevator?

Stay Tuned.

Richard,

This is only my interpretation, but on most occasions when witnesses said something highly significant but damaging to the Warren line (or appeared on the verge of doing so), there was an immediate change of tack by the lawyer (e.g., Bowers, Scoggins, Virginia Davis, etc.). Another technique was to go 'off the record' or call for an adjournment as in the case of Baker.


There are more than a dozen questions in the phase of Victoria Adams' testimony related to her sighting of Lovelady and Shelley and her failure to see Truly 'or motorcycle police officers' when she reached the first floor.

The diagram referred to by Belin (CE496) seems not to exist in the volumes.

Obviously, it was essential to discredit Adams' timing and there appears to have been a degree of collaboration with Lovelady and Shelley to achieve this.

Nevertheless, the extent of the fabrication of testimony being alleged here is huge.

Are there any comparable allegations related to the recording of testimony?

[Sponsored content]