Prayer Man

First topic message reminder :

Original Prayer Man thread at the Education Forum
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20354-oswald-leaving-tsbd/

___________________________________________________________________________________________________


G'day,
I have to say I find it oh so mildly amusing reading some of the comments, thoughts and rants associated on other forums regarding Prayer Man / Oswald on the front steps. It's sad really, watching people who have spent a lifetime married to an idea or a theory, only to witness that idea or theory shattering into a thousand pieces and not accepting the inevitable singular conclusion which is staring them in the face. To Greg Parker, Sean Murphy and all the other amazing researchers following the path of truth in this case I tips me Lid.

Mick

Yes, what Vinny said. Thank you.

Mick, you are the authority on the topic. If you say it will snap back to clear imagery given the originals to look at, then that's the way it is, or should be if anyone possessing them would have the common decency to make them available. (If he was in the window, we'd damn well have them years ago). What a pathetic state of affairs.

The fat lady may very well sing sometime soon. I believe the title of the song is called "It's over"

When the first higher-resolution Blu-ray Darnell images were posted in 2013, Sean Murphy's reaction mirrored most everyone's on the board: "This is Lee Oswald. Game over." I remember showing the new Blu-ray images to my wife and she said "Wow." I did the same with my late brother and he said "Damn, Stan, that's him!"
 
Just look at this image of the person standing in the back corner of the entrance—look at it cold—and tell me what you see.

 
 
I see a smallish white man with short, dark hair, that's what. Nobody I've ever showed this picture to has told me otherwise.
 
There's a well-known saying "Seeing is believing." I've come to learn that's not always true. Quite often, it's the other way around. For many, "Believing is seeing."
 
When your eyes tell you that you see X but you say it's Y, what you're really doing is practicing a form of delusion in order to preserve your belief system. It's a form of cognitive dissonance. You alter reality to stay comfortable. People reject anything that makes them uncomfortable. They can't handle the truth.
 
Now—just looking at Darnell—we can't say with 100% certainty that PM is Oswald. We need a clearer image to do that. But we can assign probabilities. I say it's >90%. I can stake my reputation on odds like that.
 
As I started writing Prayer Man, I tried to find fault with the notion that PM was LHO, from an image perspective (excluding all of the evidence that places Oswald on the first floor down in front). I wanted to be right, not let my desires for PM to be Oswald cloud my judgment and reasoning. I noted where Pat Speer thought PM looked like a woman. At the time, he seemed to be credible, so maybe I should expand my thinking. I tried entertain the possibility.
 
Nope, couldn't do it. Prayer Man is a man. Period. My eyes told me that. They still do.
 
Take a look at this image:
 

 
Are these all men? Yes, you say? Good! Because I can tell you that's a fact. I am in this picture. Can you find me? Not so easy? You have a good idea what I look like today from the videos, but finding me in this 1976 low-resolution image when I was in the Engineering Department on a US Navy nuclear cruiser is another thing. Some of my family couldn't even spot me right away.
 
But one thing is certain: there are no fat women with bouffant hairdos holding purses in this image. (Doyle, Trotter, and Stinky might disagree, however.)

"Nope, couldn't do it. Prayer Man is a man. Period. My eyes told me that. They still do."


Same here Stan. And because he's a man, the case is thrown wide open.

It's fantastic. With all the work that Stan , Bart and others have contributed over the past few years to determine that all other persons on the stairs are accounted for it is all but "cinched" if I can borrow a term.

It's most definitely a man in work clothes-a man who seems to be talking with Frazier. All the TSBD employees had stated that there were no strangers at the building on the day of the assassination.

Could PM be a stranger? Well yes he could be. But what odds that be the case? Did all the TSBD employees lie when asked about a stranger at the building?

In my opinion our biggest clue comes from Frazier. All he could say when shown the Darnell frame and asked whom he thought the figure was standing to his right -  all he had to say was that it looked like Lovelady but it could not have been him because he had headed to the railway yards by that time.

Lets take a moment to think about that. He recognises the figure to be male almost immediately when shown the image, but makes no mention of a stranger, and quite clearly by stating that it resembles Lovelady he has inferred at least in my mind, that it must have been a work colleague standing there. 

I'm with Stan and Jake - right from the get-go I saw a man with a hairline not dissimilar to Oswald. Even the stance of the figure is similar to Oswald's in the various photos and film we have of him.

The fact that it's been a nightmare trying to get hold of the original or first gen copy of the Darnell footage and the resistance from others to the acceptance that the figure could very well be that of Oswald's makes me believe we are correct.

As Jake said had this image been of Oswald in the window it would've been circulating 54 years ago at the highest res possible.
No to my mind, we are close - I believe people know that, people who might matter too.

It's a tiny piece of celluloid of a seemingly unremarkable shot panning up the street to the stairs of the TSBD why on earth would anybody deny access to that?

I think we all know why, at least here at ROKC

If it was not Oswald,NBC would have likely released the footage when asked.

I enlarged the above image posted by Stan.

Mick Purdy wrote:In my opinion our biggest clue comes from Frazier. All he could say when shown the Darnell frame and asked whom he thought the figure was standing to his right -  all he had to say was that it looked like Lovelady but it could not have been him because he had headed to the railway yards by that time.

Lets take a moment to think about that. He recognises the figure to be male almost immediately when shown the image, but makes no mention of a stranger, and quite clearly by stating that it resembles Lovelady he has inferred at least in my mind, that it must have been a work colleague standing there.

Sean Murphy, 9/20/2013 wrote:The reason Buell Wesley Frazier's response is a breakthrough is that Bill Shelley appears to be the only possibility BWF himself can offer when presented with the Prayer Man image. (Although it's not quite clear from Gary's [Mack] message whether BWF himself nominated Shelley or whether that's Gary's own suggestion.)
 
Given that he is not giving us some new revelation as to the presence of some hitherto unmentioned other person on the steps at that time (i.e. a stranger to the building), and given that Prayer Man cannot possibly be Shelley, we have just received startling confirmation that Prayer Man can only reasonably be Lee Oswald.
 
BWF probably knows it's Lee but—for the most understandable reasons in the world—cannot say so. However, to give him credit, he's just done the next best thing.

 
Prayer Man is Lee Harvey Oswald.

When can we provide further corroborating support for this? (I grow impatient.)

That 3d shadow looks a lot closer as it should be, thanks Jake.
Regarding darkroom....been there done that ten years of it from the mid 80's to the late 90's. 

The issue with the whole thing and the films comes down to one thing, and that is the stuff we are looking at is many generations down, and let me show you something for comparison. this is from video tape, but it is from NBC about a Kennedy docu.
Although dark you can see that all the highlights are covered. The original or even a first gen copy would be crystal clear with a digital scan. It will have more info than Darnell, of which every damn frame is blurred, afaik,

Chin or clavicle says Mr Math. How about explaining how a 140lb male becomes a 300lb woman wearing a wig in a professional situation, Chris? Arse or elbow is more apt.

Andrej pointed something out and this time I reckon he is right, although this chews into Molina's face, but I think Roy Edward Lewis is in there.

If that is REL he fn walked past PM.

Cheers, Ed

Link to the Reddit thread.



https://www.reddit.com/r/coasttocoast/comments/8g0ppr/show_last_night_with_jfk_book_author/

"My being able to post images is secondary to my arguments of evidence.."
Astonishing bullshit from the Unicorn who can "see" buttons, fingers, a handbag, bingo wings, the Taj Mahal...

Yes his vision is exemplary at times.
Like a retards strength.
I should ask him about the coke bottle on the stairs and his interviewees saying Lee had one.
Doubt he can 'put two and two together.'
That's a different kind of strength.

Prayer-Man is an argument of evidence though.....off the top of their head, does anyone recall him posting during the amazing discussion going on with Murphy in Kelly's topic back then? I wonder if he sat back and wondered if that was all a waste of time.

BC_II wrote:Prayer-Man is an argument of evidence though.....off the top of their head, does anyone recall him posting during the amazing discussion going on with Murphy in Kelly's topic back then? I wonder if sat back and wondered if that was all a waste of time.

BC, much to Brian's discomfort, he is on record at the DPF correcting Trotter who thought PM was female. Not so said Brian. He could see a male figure with short hair and a side part. This of course was prior to any ROKC involvement with the issue.
He would later claim he was "hoodwinked"..........without explaining by who, or why.

steely dan wrote:

BC_II wrote:Prayer-Man is an argument of evidence though.....off the top of their head, does anyone recall him posting during the amazing discussion going on with Murphy in Kelly's topic back then? I wonder if sat back and wondered if that was all a waste of time.

BC, much to Brian's discomfort, he is on record at the DPF correcting Trotter who thought PM was female. Not so said Brian. He could see a male figure with short hair and a side part. This of course was prior to any ROKC involvement with the issue.
He would later claim he was "hoodwinked"..........without explaining by who, or why.

Steely remembers it perfectly. From the Foo Foo:

Sometimes it is good to save things
 Ignoring Prayer Man while Stuck in a Fifty-Year-Old Box
http://www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/rokc%20forum/www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13111341-ignoring-prayer-man-while-stuck-in-a-fifty-year-old-box.html

"Slightly" thicker features... so not Sarah?

steely dan wrote:

BC_II wrote:Prayer-Man is an argument of evidence though.....off the top of their head, does anyone recall him posting during the amazing discussion going on with Murphy in Kelly's topic back then? I wonder if sat back and wondered if that was all a waste of time.

BC, much to Brian's discomfort, he is on record at the DPF correcting Trotter who thought PM was female. Not so said Brian. He could see a male figure with short hair and a side part. This of course was prior to any ROKC involvement with the issue.
He would later claim he was "hoodwinked"..........without explaining by who, or why.

Ahh.....whew. All one can do is sigh at times lol. Thanks Dan for the info bits.

From http://22november1963.org.uk/prayer-man-jfk-assassination

• http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354 is the most complete discussion still online.
  
  
• https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t388–prayer–man–on–the–education–forum contains probably the highest proportion of constructive contributions.
  
  
• http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=8916.0 contains the lowest proportion of constructive contributions.