Question Concerning Time

Lee Farley wrote:

Traveller11 wrote:

The FBI report on Tippit's death seems to have an altered time, as well.

I am trying to find the form for, I believe, the request for autopsy in the Tippit murder. As I recall, the times in it appear to be altered, as well.

Lee Farley wrote:At least they tried harder than they did on this one, Ed.  The problem with the document below is regardless of which time is used, 1:00 PM, 1:05 PM, 1:10 PM or 1:15 PM, Tippit was either pronounced dead 15, 10 or 5 minutes before he was shot or he was pronounced dead 30 seconds after he was shot.

greg parker wrote:Dan, having worked in high pressure situations which require accurate reporting, I know that some things can and do get "fudged" - and I am sure that happened more than once over that weekend in Dallas. If pressed, I could probably find some examples of "innocent" messing with the records and/or examples of actual incompetence. 

I am however, having a hard time fitting this into either of those categories. FWIW only.

Lee Farley wrote:And if you look at the attachments that Warner and Moore use as supporting evidence at the bottom of this page:



They use the Davenport and Bardin report:



So after putting on my deerstalker and lighting my pipe, I deduce that the original time was changed at some point after December 1, 1963, when the Warner-Moore report was submitted.

Robert Charles-Dunne wrote:If we agree that the earliest documents are more likely to be accurate (as there hadn't yet been sufficient time to notice problematic timeline discrepancies, let alone address them), the death certificate trumps subsequent documents.  It alone impeaches the case against Oswald in re: Tippit.

It seems quite apparent that even the original time of death - DOA @ 1:15  as certified by the attending physician - was untenable when compared with the timeline subsequently devised to inculpate Oswald.  Hence, all subsequent entries in all known reports were altered to adhere to a contrived scenario.  The abundance of alteration seen in this thread only demonstrates as fact what has been contended for a half century.

An earlier time of shooting as detailed by actual witnesses - 1:00 PM or closer thereto - only exacerbates the discrepancy being hidden through document alteration.    

The Secret Service synopsis prepared a week after the fact demonstrates the dilemma precisely. 

Although the document's bruited timeline has Oswald killing Tippit at about 1:12 or thereabouts, it thereafter stipulates as fact that Tippit was actually shot about 12 minutes earlier than the timeline.  This earlier time was no doubt based upon the consensus of witness estimates, for the synopsis reconstructs the event through witnesses’ eyes. 

It is through these anomalies in the documentary record that we can see the gradual development of a stronger case against Oswald, made possible only by fraud and evidence tampering.  Such uniformity in alteration cannot be ascribed to honestly made early mistakes being corrected with the emergence of more genuine data. 

Indeed, the converse it true.  The most genuine data were altered to hide what exonerated Oswald

Martin Hay wrote:This version of the Supplementary Offense Report appears to me to say 1:15 pm:

Ed. Ledoux wrote:
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Contents.pdf
Has a list with Crafard notebook listed under Andrew Armstrong
Could someone check the number in Crafard Notebook against Davis phone number!

Robert Charles-Dunne wrote:

Ed. Ledoux wrote:
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Contents.pdf
Has a list with Crafard notebook listed under Andrew Armstrong
Could someone check the number in Crafard Notebook against Davis phone number!

Apologies for the delay in replying, Ed.  No Worries! Thanks Robert!!

The numbers are the same. Oy vey!

A few decades ago, frustrated over the deliberately haphazard presentation of key evidence by the Commission, I compiled all phone numbers found among the effects of Oswald and Ruby into two separate subsets, as I would locate same in the volumes.  (The MF files would have been a blessing at the time.)
Kinda like this garbage: http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/02/0246-001.gif

Except for sea bags MF has been the holy grail!

The number listed in Crafard’s book under Leona Miller is the same number attributed to the Davis sisters-in-law in their respective DPD affidavits.  Presumably the Davis girls wouldn’t have hand-written and/or signed an affidavit that contained an incorrect phone number.  The fact that both women provided the same number argues against any lapse in memory, typo or clerical error.   No argument there!

However, likewise, Crafard had no reason to mistake a phone number given to him over the phone.  Presumably the caller - Leona Miller - wanted a return phone call and left the correct number.  And I believe there’s persuasive evidence that she did receive a return phone call from Jack Ruby, as we’ll soon see. I take it that Leona was either a Davis sister friend, was at Davis sisters, or wanted Ruby to call the Davis sisters/husbands.

(You can also find the phone number of “Thomas” among Ruby’s effects.  Invert the final four digits as rendered by Ruby’s hand and you’ve got the phone number of John Thomas Masen, who requires no introduction to the veteran hands here.  While Ruby found it necessary to keep that number among his effects, he also found it necessary to disguise that number, for reasons that should be as obvious as the act is telling.  Masen is not the only commonality between Ruby and the Terrell armory thefts, as Donnell Whitter was a mechanic who worked on Ruby’s cars.  I have hypothesized that Ruby was the informant who delivered the weapons to Whitter and Miller and having done so, was allowed by police to “get away.”)

Ruby in the Dodge. (Using Olsen or another DPD officer to set them up)

I suspect that Leona Miller and Larry Miller of the Terrell arms theft(s) are in some respect related.  If so, this would help to explain why a Leona Miller was suddenly calling Ruby not long before the Terrell heist and Larry Miller’s subsequent arrest.  This can be established via the order in which Crafard noted incoming messages for Ruby. 

I was looking for Leona's husbands name. Yet her and her mother, Esther Miller testimony/statement is lacking this detail.
Lawrence Reginald Miller's father was Acie Cole Miller. Lawrence died in 1973
I could not find the connection, though a full trace might.
Ancestry.com account members have at it!

(Crafard kept Leona’s number among the “permanent” numbers in his notebook, even though he testified that she wasn’t a regular caller.  Perhaps we can infer some import from this Commission-noted anomaly.  Similarly, one can presume she had known Ruby for some time, but hadn’t been in recent contact,  since she left a message under the name Leona Miller, rather than her married name of Lane.  In doing so, we must assume that “Leona Lane” might not have struck a chord with Ruby, whereas “Leona Miller” would.) 

It would explain a few other things as well.  It would indicate that it wasn’t merely random chance that brought Leona Miller and Jack Ruby together on the night of 11/22 at the synagogue.  It would also explain why Ruby was seeing bail bondsmen and conferring with attorney Pete White immediately after the Whitter/Miller bust and prior to his rise to infamy only days later.  Pete White was at courthouse for Masen arrest hearing on Nov 20 I surmise.

(White's name was in Larry Crafard's notebook) (White defended John Thomas Masen for violation of National Firearms Act)
http://jfkassassinationlegacy.blogspot.com/2011/08/b.html see BAER, HENRY

One can establish these details by sifting through the records, and testimony.   Confirmation is found in the list Ruby kept of the persons to whom he’d given Carousel Club membership cards, which list itemized who had received them in chronological and numerical order.  Just prior to 11/22, Jack Ruby was a very busy and garrulous man, handing out cards left and right, and kept sloppy and incomplete but nevertheless helpful records.  Thanks for that, Jack. 

(One might also be interested in the notation in Crafard’s book (presumably that Ruby had made a reservation under) the name “Miller” for a party of 15 from Collins Radio.  Tiny, tiny planet, this Earth.)    Collins Radio -Miller, Claire R. (Sales: Mexico and South America), 1932-1934 (4 folders)    http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/scua/msc/tomsc850/msc814/collinsradiocompanyrecords.html
                       
I would be very interested in the backgrounds of the husbands of the Davis sisters-in-law, Charlie and Troy Lee, and whom their known associates might include.  Oh me too, see my comment about the call back above. Nov 22nd must have been a slow day for roofing...zzzzzz

It is also more than passing strange that Tippit met his demise in a locale where he was a regular visitor, which bespeaks greater than even odds his death wasn’t the random event that’s been portrayed all these years.  Virginia Davis herself testified she thought Tippit lived in the building adjacent to where his car was parked when he was killed.  She didn’t seem to know, even at the time of her testimony, that this wasn’t so. She also was talking about how the killer "dumped" empty pistol shells into his left hand and then was dropping them along the yard...Either killer was ignorant as the shells would dump out on their own when cylinder was opened and inverted or the shells were 'bulged' and required pulling each out or tapping gun to get them out...either way the shells in evidence are not bulged out and would not have been fired by the pistol in evidence. She said he was emptying them into his hand but did not see him dropping them but assumed he did because she found two...she also only heard two shots! Hmmm
Thus I believe shots were from different guns. Different angles and not all from across hood of car. I asked about this and went over the trajectory angles with Sherry Fiester, which precluded the upward angles of head shot from a shooter standing or kneeling next to passenger side of the police cruiser. As I recall for the trajectory to work as portrayed, killer would need to be lying across hood or in front of Tippit.
https://2img.net/h/i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/dhjosephs/Tippitautopsyfacesheet.png  
Steep upward angle shown in diagram did not work for side of car shooter!! Button shot did. etc.
Even Dale Myers says the head wound did not exit the skull due to something stopping the blow out in top left rear of JD's head. The bullet was removed from inside skull..ie the pavement shored up the cranium...admitting this would lead one to accept a coup de grace shot. Blood splatter from such would have been evident on the "White" jacket, though none was found. So possibly the "white jacket man" shot twice and hit JD in chest. The head and heart shots would be from second shooter(if you accept the evidence and where it leads.)
Go ahead and actually lay down next to a car and see which position JD would need to be facing for a Coup De Grace shot to be possible with left rear of head on pavement! Then chalk outline it and post your findings. Should be a interesting exercise.
FWIW this is the wrong angle and position: http://www.jfk-online.com/100tippit.jpg
(PS I am aware of the jacket Scoggins was wearing, being stocky. Only one statement to Coup de grace..etc.)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2013/11/21/National-Enterprise/Images/JFKmedia_0061385056082.jpg

Don't wish to hijack this thread, but thought an answer to an important question was warranted.
Consider it jacked   

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.