the escape route

First topic message reminder :

I'm just going to posit a hypothetical, as a way of illustrating a question. Let's assume, that we go with Oswald being on the 2nd floor at the time of the shooting. Let's posit there was "some other shooter" up on the 6th floor (a bunch of people saw a shooter up there, so let's go with that for this illustration). So, here's the question: what's the escape route? How did "the shooter" get out of the building?

Let's even give "the shooter" all the benefits of the doubt. Let's say someone had the whole thing staged in advance, so "the shooter" didn't even have to hide the rifle. He had complete freedom immediately after the shooting, and his only job was to get out of the building. How did he do it?

He had basically three ways to get downstairs, the elevators, the back stairs, and the front stairs. The elevators were stuck on the 5th floor 90 seconds after the shooting (according to Baker & Truly), so it's unlikely "the shooter" could have made it down on an elevator. And, weren't there a couple of women sitting on the 4th floor by the back stairs, eating lunch or something? "The shooter" would have run right into them on the way down, and they didn't see anyone. So that would leave the front stairs, wouldn't it?

Those elevators have been studied to death, haven't they? I've ridden in plenty of elevators of that kind, even if Oswald's job was only to keep an elevator waiting, it would have taken about 20 seconds to descend, and no one heard anything anyway, so it's quite unlikely an elevator went down then up again. The stairs would seem to be the logical answer - and what of the person at the 4th floor window, do we know who that is? Hm.

How about... the fake secret service guy that somehow showed up at the back entrance of the building and hung out for a while?

And, the strangest possibility of all... the shooter remained inside the building (posing as a secret service man, even). Either way though, he had to get downstairs somehow, and out of the building eventually. What could we deduce about the exact escape route the shooter must have taken (or tried to take)?

Redfern wrote:

beowulf wrote:As George Bailey notes, there are nearly a dozen witnesses to Secret Service agents who appear to be impostors.  One was dressed casually while two others were seen just outside the TSBD. If white cops can't pick out the fake federal agents, its unreasonable to expect black warehouse workers (this was Texas in 1963) to be more assertive and vigilant.

"Dallas police officer Joe Marshall Smith encountered a man dressed in a sports shirt and pants that produced SS identification. Smith noted the man had dirty hands like that of a mechanic. He allowed him to go about his business.
Sergeant D.V. Harkness sees several men in suits that in his words were “well armed” behind the schoolbook depository building a few minutes after the assassination. He approached them and they identified themselves as Secret Service agents, showing credentials."
http://oswaldsmother.blogspot.com/2009/08/phony-secret-service-agents.html

As for how a sniper would know where the motorcade was, anyone with the resources to procur authentic looking Secret Service credentials could easily buy a police radio scanner or, for that matter, line up a lookout with a walkie talkie.

There is no doubt that there were fake Secret Service agents in Dealey Plaza. Nevertheless, if one (or more) were involved in the TSBD shooting, don't you think they had to receive assistance?



An alternative explanation for the Kaiser brothers' absence would be that they had forewarning and did not want to be involved. Is it possible that Joe Molina changed his lunch routine that day and that Givens ran off in panic for similar reasons?


In my view, the man Baker intercepted as stated in his original affidavit was the 6th floor shooter. Truly lied. The lunchroom encounter never happened and Oswald was at the front entrance as Sean Murphy has convincingly argued. Vickie Adams told the truth. It took much longer for Baker and Truly to leave the front entrance than they claimed (Truly probably caused the delay). Dougherty guarded the stairs and elevators on the 5th floor and made sure Norman, Jarman and Williams did not cause any problems. Piper may have had a corresponding role on the first floor. The 'sniper's nest' was partially assembled (unwittingly in some cases) by the floor-laying crew and Dougherty added the finishing touches. I suspect the MC rifle was a prop and the real rifle was placed in a large container.

Have to agree with Redfern here, in all respects except Piper being on the 1st floor. 

There had to be, and was, at least one inside man. Truly. And Cason would have had a long standing relationship with the FBI through his American Legion affiliation. https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t243-the-6th-floor-whitewash-an-example

greg parker wrote:Have to agree with Redfern here, in all respects except Piper being on the 1st floor. 

There had to be, and was, at least one inside man. Truly. And Cason would have had a long standing relationship with the FBI through his American Legion affiliation. https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t243-the-6th-floor-whitewash-an-example

Where do you place Piper, Greg?

Rowland's "elderly Negro". He matches the description.

The window from which he claimed to watch the motorcade had almost zero visibility to the outside. 

No one noted his presence down there - except Shelley who said he saw Piper heading to the coffee area. But he could have been heading there from any part of the building.

Piper did say he ran to the coffee area after the shots - to check the time on the clock (as you do?) In his statement, he said it was 12:25 - coincidentally when the motorcade was DUE - not when it actually arrived. He amended that time for his WC testimony WITHOUT being questioned about what he'd originally said. 

The 12:25 sounds a lot like Piper trying to give himself an alibi for the time he THOUGHT the assassination had occurred.

Piper is indeed suspicious. He claims to have watched the motorcade from a position that made it virtually imposible to see anything. He did not recognise Baker was a uniformed cop. He claimed to repsond to Truly at the elevators. Niether Baker or Truly recalled him there. West was at the coffee table (maybe asleep) and doesn't mention Piper. The clock is located between the domino room and the store room, some distance from the coffee machine. Piper does not recall Adams and Styles. I think that Williams might have been transplanted for Piper in the "evolved" version. Piper became a vey useful witness for the WC. Negating Adams and Styles timing. "Lee is going up to eat" about 12 is also convenient.