The Hobbits Strike Back!! The Revenge of Jimbo Baggins

First topic message reminder :

After spending the best part of the year cruising Middle Earth's swingingest hotspots, breaking many a lady Hobbit's heart( and a lot of wind too...Cousin Jemima will persist in adding extra cabbage and roughage to her famous homemade goulash), and if the undercover operatives of the Shire's controversial  fundamentalist anti elf Family Values cooperative society Keep Our Kountry Klean, or K.O.K.K, as it's better known, amongst the radical " Hobbit's Only" underground, are to be believed, our goateed chum spent a lot of his time with his big furry Hobbity arse warming the waiting room chairs and consulting couches of the Shire's leading venereal disease specialists....after that unfortunate encounter with a half orc prostitute , outside HARVEY'S Rest... An infamous strip club in Middle Earth's red light district...everyone's favourite hobbity huckster is back in town!!!

That's right!! Jimbo Baggins is back...

The greatest comeback since his great uncle Herb Baggins, Honshu's Horniest Hobbit crawled out of his smouldering hobbit hole, round the back end of Hiroshima Hill.. looking at the vapourised ruins of the city, he turned to his faithful apprentice, Randy Sandy O, " We'll move to Nagasaki!! I hear there's lotsa horny little hobbits there!!!"

They say change is the only true sign of life...as we change we grow, broadening our minds , and our horizons..

By learning from our mistakes we not only gain wisdom and insight, we also learn more about ourselves...

The Great British mystic/ poet/ engraver/ artist/ visionary William Blake once wrote,:" the road of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom"

Maybe it's true, maybe it's not.

Regardless of the statement's veracity i'd like to paraphrase it, adding a coda of my own...

" The road that leads to the Palace of Wisdom is paved with errors. It is the fool who refuses to see those errors for what they are"

Anyone can make mistakes, it's part of growing up, mistakes can often deepen our understanding of ourselves, and the world around us...

Ultimately you cannot learn simply by listening. You have to learn by experience, learn by making your own mistakes...

If madness is repeating the same action over and over, expecting a different outcome, then surely the true meaning of folly is to make the same mistake over and over again without learning from it...

Jimbo Baggins is back...with his mouth wide open and his mind slammed tight... impervious to reason.

He obviously doesn't give a fuck about the assassination. He may as well be on QVC or some ghastly low budget shopping channel, trying to flog dodgy vacuum cleaners to the oxycontin deadened housewifes ( and househusbands) of middle Earth ( and middle America)

He has no shame, no respect for the subject, his fellow members and lurkers, but most of all he has absolutely no respect for himself..

What he is doing is an absolute disgrace. 

It's just the same old shite...the vaguely aggressive hucksterism spiced up with paeans to paranoid populism...attempting to exploit the incipient anti government mindset that predominates.

No attempt to answer the questions asked by Jeremy, RC-D and others... it's just the same old spiel....Bolton Ford..

I've become completely disillusioned with the whole subject. 99% of so called " assassination research" is a complete fucking joke..

The vast majority of the " leading researchers" are an embarrassment. Their " research" is amateurish, at best.

I'm afraid we're all just chasing shadows, chasing ghosts across a deserted battlefield... unable to accept that the war was lost decades ago...

I can hardly bring myself to read anymore of the garbage they churn out..

I don't think I'm overexaggarating, or being needlessly melodramatic, but what he's attempting to do, in my opinion, is nothing short of scandalous...

Any genuine researcher welcomes sincere criticism, as it enables them to refine their hypothesis/ theory.. 

This crowd on the other hand simply ignore any criticism, attempting to brass neck or bullshit their way out...

Over 20 years have passed...has the " theory" been refined? The central premise developed? Have new witnesses stepped forward? Claiming to have met HARVEY or LEE?

Where did LEE and mysterious Marge go post assassination?

Absolutely no new work has been done....apart from Armstrongs increasingly surrealistic essays.... the " two Stephens" work made Dali, Bunuel and Man Ray look like pinstripe suit wearing accountants..



And La Chien Andalus the latest installment of Disney's Frozen saga...

IMHO Jimbo Baggins is nothing more than a con artist. He doesn't give a fuck about the assassination, or history....for whatever reason he seems determined to reel as many suckers in as he can...

What they attempted to do to the magic tooth photo, not to mention the Frankenstein Oswald photo and the Bronx Zoo HARVEY schnozzle was utterly despicable.

It's not the theory that angers me. I'm pretty certain LHO WAS indeed impersonated, albeit on a strictly ad hoc basis..

It's the sheer dishonesty, hypocrisy and blatant lack of respect, not to mention the derisory " evidence" that's been continuously vomited up...
Baggins and his erstwhile guru, for whatever reason, are playing the so called research community for suckers...

They're fucking hucksters of the lowest order....anyone who attempts to profit from a tragedy like the assassination can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned..

Fuck Jimbo Baggins and his cheapjack hustlers shtick...he's a disgrace and an embarrassment...

greg_parker wrote:



 

The big fucking deal is your insistence on claiming your works are "enhancements"  when in fact, they are the opposite of that,



  

I’m sorry mama.
Lee’s paraphernelia, created my paranoia, resulting in an episode of paraeidolia.


I think I'll wait awhile to post the unenhanced version.
Or, maybe someone else will do the honors.
Remember, it's only a gif.

It's most likely my tiny brain Chris but even your sense of humor is way above my tiny sized head.

Alex wrote:Talking of geniuses, another lover of doppelgangers and eccentric headgear..in this case red fezzes, worn a la mode, at a suitably jaunty angle...has returned to bathe the poor unwashed in the luminous bounty of his soaring intellect...

It's all about the hats, Alex. They give their wearers the magical ability to see things that simple, deluded, hatless mortals cannot see.

There's probably a designer hat shop somewhere offering the latest fashions in made-to-measure reflective headgear, with a range to suit all tastes, all head sizes, and all levels of paranoia.

A foil-lined fedora, sir, as worn by one of the Jack Ruby doppelgangers in the police station basement? Step this way! Or would sir prefer a bowler hat, padded with only the finest hand-crafted tin foil? It's an ideal match for sir's stylish turtle-neck and cardigan combo! And sir mustn't forget to try on our patented Native American head-dress, complete with aluminium feathers!

Personally, I'd be tempted by the top-of-the-range model, the 'Kubrick', guaranteed to keep mind-altering radiation at bay. It's a replica of the helmets created by the wardrobe department for the late film-maker's magnum opus, shot in the desert in Arizona and starring two previously unknown thespians, Neil and Buzz, one of whom was a Korean-speaking Albanian refugee.

On a more serious note, if Chris wants to put his Photoshop skills to productive use, here's something he could do. On the Ed Forum, Tracy Parnell gave a link to a review of Josiah Thompson's latest book:

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2021/06/the-ghost-of-grassy-knoll-gunman.html

One of the topics that the reviewer, Nicholas Nalli, deals with is Thompson's revised idea that JFK's head did not move forwards fractionally between Zapruder frames 312 and 313 before moving backwards.

Nalli includes three animated gifs made up of greyscale reproductions of frames 312 and 313. At first sight, they do seem to show JFK's head moving forwards. Nalli, of course, thinks that this indicates a shot from behind.

I'd be interested to find out if his creations are accurate, but my own image-manipulation skills are probably not up to the job. Would Chris (or anyone else) like to unpack Nalli's gifs and see if what he has done stands up to scrutiny?

Jeremy, if I may humbly recommend M L'Escroc, Milliners and Haberdashers, Savile Row, London. Since the original M L'Escroc, an Aristocratic refugee from the predations of the Sans Culottes arrived in 1791, was awarded his Royal Warrant by the Prince Regent ( a noted Adeptee de la Conspiration, and proud wearer of M L'Escroc's piece de resistance, , La Papier L' Aluminium a la Ethiopieen) they have been purveyors of the very finest aluminium based headgear...caterers to the elite...M Lay from Enron, M Madoff, M Black and of course M Ponzi... surely you must remember the sensation the spoon shaped hat he made for M Uri Geller caused at Paris Fashion Week?

And let us not forget the quite incredible titanium yarmulke the present M L'Escroc made for that noted publisher, Willis Carto? A hat best selling author Don Jeffries wears with pride when presenting that flagship current affairs radio podcast " I Protest"

If I could be so bold Jeremy, I would suggest his latest creation, classic tin foil molded into the shape of a plague doctor's mask!! Tres chic!!

It compliments the classic turtle neck and sweater combination...

I'm not quite sure about our American chums though... I imagine Jimbo Baggins only experience of bespoke tailoring is when he stuck " Lil' Jimbo" with the cute woollen prophylactic cousin Jemima made for him, in between the spokes of Myra DaRouse Baggins bicycle, trying to crack out a crafty dry hump while she was busy with little HARVEY Baggins...in the homeroom at Stripling High... Middle Earth's most doppelgangery school...

As for our prodigiously polygamous pigman Professor? I suppose such wanton frippery would be against some Divine Commandment...the ones the golden haired levitating angel Mormom did passeth to an illiterate cowherd from New York State..

Thou shalt not wear fancy shiny hats came after Thou shalt head out into the Utah desert where thou shalt set up thy temple and frolic with the bountiful teenage nymphettes thou shalt take for thou wifes...

As for John Butler??? It would need a Mark fucking Twain to adequately chronicle his misadventures amidst the high end purveyors of haute couture...

A Kentucky Konspiracy Theorist visits King Arthur's Couturier...

Armstrong save us all..

I've just checked out the H and L thread over on the 13 Inch Head forum...

Now I know what it felt like to wander through the Athenian Symposium..or Lorenzo the Magnificent's Florentine Academy... watching the young Michelangelo take his first uncertain steps towards immortality, whilst listening to the finest minds of the Renaissance as they argued about the very nature of being...or indeed to recline on a couch in the Royal Palace at Pella, sipping a Thracian wine  as Aristotle instructs the teenage Alexander...

Not only could I marvel at John Butler's quite phenomenal stupidity..he's got Oswalds popping up everywhere... like the fucking bubonic plague at a black rats and fleas fanciers party in some Cheapside Tavern back in Merry Olde London Towne.....but also could I read the biggest pack of lies since the Guild of Village Idiots and Pathological Liars met in the tavern next door..

Quoting Me and Lee in relation to any event or person with even the remotest most peripheral association with the Kennedy Assassination is like quoting from the Wit and Wisdom of Professor Larsen at the Yale v Oxford Debate...

Or Fezzo's Psychedelic Guide to Painting at the entrance exam for the Royal Academy...or even Fezzo's Illustrated Guide to Finding an Emoji's G Spot at the Annual Dancing Emoticons Debutante Ball...

Not only is it an obvious pack of ridiculous lies, from beginning to end, the writing is absolutely atrocious..

Like some tenth rate Mills and Boon bodice buster mixed with the Chronicles of the Young Indiana Jones...written by a reanimated William Mcgonnigal..

Oh silvery banks of the River Tay/ Where Lee and Juddufki did lay/ as the harps plucked and the cherubs played/ they fuck'd and fuck'd/ til Clay doth say/ to a hotel with you and I will pay the Estate of William Mcgonnigal c/o Kris Millegan Talent Management, Harare Zimbabwe

Fuck every single one of the fools, egotists and parasites who are, or have, enabled, or are still enabling this tawdry con artist...

H and L vs Me and Lee...the perfect symmetry...both of them are a preposterous pack of outlandish lies... How ANYONE can believe Juddufki's nonsense...a fucking covert research facility attempting to weaponise cancer being operated by a ditzy teenage ingenue who won some shitty ribbon at a science fair?  an ex pilot under investigation for molestation, with absolutely zero scientific qualifications , indeed his only academic credentials being some mail order diploma from some Italian degree mill and an expert in bone cancer..????

Harvesting thousands of mice and " hundreds of pounds" of monkeys... fucking MONKEYS...using a food blender in some cramped suburban kitchenette?? What about noise, the smell, never mind the logistics..the vets and the corpse disposal and incineration.. Imagine Mr and Mrs John Q American Citizen sitting down with their TV dinners? I think they might notice a monkey Auschwitz operating in their neighbourhood... Harvesting tumours then transporting them in a thermos flask??? Armstrong have mercy on us all!!! ...but the most ridiculous thing of all is them knowing who the target was!!! Sparky Rubinstein doing handstands in the kitchen as some naïve 19 year old erstwhile science geek discusses assassinating a foreign head of state???? It's a pity Ralph Cinque isn't a Juddufkist..thin t of the ditty he could have written?? Juddufki and Groden singing a close harmony duet at poor old Lee's graveside.." I've Gone Harvesting with HARVEY"..what can a poor doppelganger do? When he's got the old sitting on a bus to Mexico with a thermos full of tumours blues...

The portrait she paints of HARVEY , as some uberhip urbane James Bond...sexual gymnast, man of letters... debonair, discreet and effortlessly cool is just cheap pastiche. The sort of thing some terminally mediocre creative writing student might have cobbled together..in an attempt to cash in on her otherwise miniscule and meaningless brush with history...is every bit as preposterous, misleading and untrue as the one dimensional misanthropic caricature the Warren Report tried to peddle

Me and Lee is almost as much of an offence against literature as it is against truth itself.

There's absolutely no excuse for any  " researcher " or " author" to show up at her sci fi fantasy shindig..

Absolutely none whatsoever.

The woman is nothing more than a common grifter... trying to scam as much money as she can by telling the most outrageous lies about Oswald and the assassination..

Even the likes of Palamara, and the other research community luminaries who queue up to do their little turn in the full glare of the Trine Day spotlight... could perhaps bestir themselves and use some of their much celebrated research abilities...even a fucking mummy, buried for millennia in the Valley of the King's , could see Juddufki is an obvious con artist..

How ANYONE can believe this horseshit is absolutely beyond me...

Never underestimate the need to believe in something...anything...be it incorporeal polyglot Hungarian doppelgangers or coarse featured con artists...

JeremyBojczuk wrote:On a more serious note, if Chris wants to put his Photoshop skills to productive use,

Draw your own conclusions if applicable, but don't draw mine pertaining to the zfilm funnies.
 

Turtles head. Spot on.

Alex wrote:if I may humbly recommend M L'Escroc, Milliners and Haberdashers, Savile Row, London.

I had to look up 'escroc'.* It is indeed le mot juste. I take my tin-foil hat off to you!

Alex also wrote:Quoting Me and Lee in relation to any event or person with even the remotest most peripheral association with the Kennedy Assassination is like quoting from the Wit and Wisdom of Professor Larsen at the Yale v Oxford Debate.

He may be going about it the wrong way, but Herr Kinaski is making a worthwhile point. The Oswald who met the truck dealer is, according to H&L doctrine, the 5'11" doppelganger, whereas the witness claims the man he spoke to was 5'6" or 5'7".

Four or five inches is quite a difference in a person's height. This leaves our 'Harvey and Lee' believers with a bit of a problem. They can't point out that the witness might have been mistaken, because once they acknowledge this obvious fact, their whole made-up world collapses around them.

Chris wrote:Draw your own conclusions if applicable, but don't draw mine pertaining to the zfilm funnies.

I was just giving Chris a chance to do something useful instead of wasting his time banging away at his old film-chopping idea that (a) understandably failed to catch on elsewhere and (b) is ruled out categorically by the Zavada report.

If he changes his mind, he could also have a look at some of the subsequent frames. Thompson claims that JFK's head went forwards around three-quarters of a second after frame 313, as the result of a shot from behind. I don't recall having seen an animation that captures this. If Chris were to create one to show us whether or not this movement happened, he would again be doing something useful.

--

* escroc (noun, masculine): swindler, crook.

Merci beaucoup M Jeremy!!

I had a feeling M L'Escroc would appeal to your sense of humour and your exquisitely refined gourmand's palette...

However the dishes served over at La Tete de 13 Pouces, are getting a tad too spicy and over sauced for my taste....John Butler, Saucier( and no Stevie Gaal that doesn't mean he was beamed up into a flying saucer where he underwent an intensive 12 hour probing, carried out by tiny grey bulbous headed insectoid aliens from Zeta Reticuli...with their great black almond shaped eyes, vacant and expressionless, their spindly bodies, their three long digits,  as wriggly and potentially obtrusive as the jar full of worms and severed todgers our late lamented chum Cory keeps stashed under his bed, along with his collection of vintage Scandinavian pornography, several automatic rifles and his well thumbed copies of Mein Kampf and the recently published American Free Press Guide to Interior Decoration and Soft Furnishings, Mein Komfy Chair and their lack of external genitalia, Stevie thought he was back in Middle Earth's answer toAppalachia, having a good ole hoedown with his Baggins cousins) is wandering around the kitchens, imagining he's slicing open white mice with Juddufki and David Ferrie, with his massive tin foil chef's hat, that makes him look like a hillbilly Dalek on heat, emptying jars of XTRA hot chili pepper sauce into all the dishes...as Chef Baggins almost tears his goatee out in frustration..
" No you don't" he shrieks" Not chilli pepper sauce.. I said PCP and ketamine!! How else are we going to get the punters to swallow the goulash and the gumbo?? Not to mention our outrageous yarns of magical disappearing doppelganger mom's and their bullnecked all American progeny?"

You're absolutely right of course, the considerable height discrepancy between the Bolton Ford Oswald and the putative doppelganger, supposedly the 6 foot bullnecked all American LEE , is just one of the numerous problems with this story...if anything I find Me and Lee even more ridiculously unconvincing than H and L , in fact ridiculously unconvincing is almost complimentary...Me and Lee is nothing more than a brazen confidence trick...

Reading through the atrociously written , fantastically absurd scenarios I simply don't understand how anyone can believe this...

For anyone who takes a serious interest in this case, and indeed in historical research in general, it must be both baffling and distressing to see a blatant fraudster like Baker worming her way into the very foundations of the so called research community...

Staging annual jamborees, that have the great and the good virtually tripping over each other in their eagerness to share a podium with a proven confidence trickster...

Who spends most of her time, when she's not busy being followed by mysterious white vans and shadowy intelligence operatives, writing stomach churningly oligeanous posts, declaring her undying love for her ' Lee', or else begging for money...Telling a pack of ridiculous lies about a major historical tragedy , a tragedy she's attempted to transform into a business opportunity..allying a herself with every two bit hustler in the trooftelling fraternity...

Grotesque charlatans like Ole Dammegard, who packages his fucking ludicrous bullshit up in a quasi religious shroud, drenched in apocalyptic imagery 

If she was actually telling the truth her behaviour would, if anything, be even more repellent... like all those so called psychics who claim to possess supernatural powers...Like them, whose alleged powers could fundamentally alter how we understand the world, Juddufki claims to be a witness to events, that if proven true, would alter the entire history of Post World War II America,... Conning money out of the vulnerable, the gullible, the desperate and the disenfranchised is utterly beneath contempt. Be it promising them an eternity in paradise, a link with a much mourned relative or the answer to a tragedy that's cast it's malignant shadow over the past, the present and the future...Lies are still lies, even if they are gilded with hope .For it can only be a false  hope...false hope is worse than no hope at all... likewise hoping to build the truth out of a tissue of lies is like attempting to build a new world...woven out of the poisonous clouds that choked the life out of the old.

She styles herself as some sort of altruistic whistleblower, a humanitarian, a philanthropist ...did she step forward as so many brave souls did? When it could have really mattered... imagine if she had stepped forward in 1964 or before the HSCA...or even during the ARRB?

No. Instead she's set out to squeeze as much money and notoriety as she possibly could from her " truth"... doing God knows how much damage to the cause she's supposedly dedicated herself to...

To hear her acolytes rhapsodising about " truth" is enough to induce a peptic ulcer...or worse..H and L and Me and Lee have become the Scylla and Charybdis of assassination research...

JeremyBojczuk wrote:
I was just giving Chris a chance to do something useful instead of wasting his time banging away at his old film-chopping idea that (a) understandably failed to catch on elsewhere and (b) is ruled out categorically by the Zavada report.

If he changes his mind, he could also have a look at some of the subsequent frames. Thompson claims that JFK's head went forwards around three-quarters of a second after frame 313, as the result of a shot from behind. I don't recall having seen an animation that captures this. If Chris were to create one to show us whether or not this movement happened, he would again be doing something useful.

Chris would rather spend his time on more constructive aspects. Those that require a cognitive
approach.

He chooses not to spend his time (most of it) on redundant head shot blather.

Speaking of film-chopping, hope you enjoy the latest. But first of all, you would have to understand what’s being presented.

It makes no difference to him whether you do or don't.

Chris_Davidson wrote:

JeremyBojczuk wrote:
I was just giving Chris a chance to do something useful instead of wasting his time banging away at his old film-chopping idea that (a) understandably failed to catch on elsewhere and (b) is ruled out categorically by the Zavada report.

If he changes his mind, he could also have a look at some of the subsequent frames. Thompson claims that JFK's head went forwards around three-quarters of a second after frame 313, as the result of a shot from behind. I don't recall having seen an animation that captures this. If Chris were to create one to show us whether or not this movement happened, he would again be doing something useful.

Chris would rather spend his time on more constructive aspects. Those that require a cognitive
approach.

He chooses not to spend his time (most of it) on redundant head shot blather.

Speaking of film-chopping, hope you enjoy the latest. But first of all, you would have to understand what’s being presented.

It makes no difference to him whether you do or don't.

You've made my day Chris. Third person! Really - noice. Says a lot.

Chris, with all due respect , what do you think that GIF actually proves? What do you think you are seeing? To me it looks like a blurry unfocused jumble..

I don't see how you can possibly hope to convince anyone if you are unwilling, or indeed unable to explain your theory in a reasonably coherent fashion..

If you are not interested in convincing anyone, only yourself, and a handful of like-minded individuals who " get" what you are trying to prove, or if this is some sort of arcane intellectual riddle you've set yourself, I honestly can't see the purpose of these increasingly enigmatic GIFs/ equations/ posts..

I'm sorry Chris, I'm extremely dubious of any theory/ idea that seems to make a fetish out of being as oblique and complicated as possible,. Most, if not all great insights/ breakthroughs can be explained in a simple coherent fashion. The further you go spiralling off into vertiginous dimensions, the more you adopt a dismissive tone, seemingly not even willing to countenance the thought of explaining your theory to the clodhopping plebeians... the more likely it is your theory will be treated with skepticism and derision..

Your obviously interested in sharing your work, why else would you bother posting? Especially here, in a forum that treats the notion of alteration with a suspicion, that borders on the contemptuous...

Speaking personally if I thought I'd made a major breakthrough,if I thought i'd discovered the solution to a highly controversial , incredibly polarising issue, I'd be damn sure to make that solution as accessible as possible..

That bumptious fat pedant Fetzer always liked puffing out his already bloated moobs, lecturing the hoi polloi from the lofty heights of his professorial chair,he's a philosopher of science doncha know!!, but he was right about one thing: falsification..

If you can't explain the basics of your theory to enable others to attempt to repeat the phenomenon...then IMHO you really are fighting a losing battle, allowing yourself to become hypnotised by the garish flutter of painted feathers...

I genuinely mean no disrespect.. I honestly think you are seriously mistaken, wasting your time chasing chimeras and willo the wisp daydreams... I've admitted to you I don't understand the mathematical equations, but Chris it's not mathematicians that are needed IMHO...it's experts in contemporary film and photographic technology....if I wanted someone to measure the quadratic equidistant radius of Professor Larsen's cowboy hat then you'd be the man ..

What are we meant to think? Every film expert who has been consulted have unilaterally dismissed the notion of alteration...Mick was even considerate enough to answer my questions with a detailed essay, he explained simply, in language that was easy for the non expert to understand..

As far as I can see the closest you've come to technical expertise in the alterationists camp is a videographer who didn't seem to have a clue about how Zapruder's camera actually operated, a man who has spent nigh on 20 years spraying the virtual walls with his belligerent incoherent scrawls, a high school maths teacher who didn't understand basic parallax and the less said about the efforts of Messrs Lifton, Fetzer and White the better..

More than that I don't understand the importance of alteration? What do you think it will prove that hasn't already been proven?

Lord Gordo, erstwhile proprietor of Miss Thomasina Ttight Klunges Olde Time Tea and Muffin Shoppe took a break from his arduous schedule of village fêtes, tea parties at the vicarage and holding bake sales and raffles for those jolly nice chaps at UKIP, to drop in and berate that ne'er do well Jonathan Cohen..

The rascal had the damn cheek to spoil the dreamy antidiluvian ambience by actually speaking the fucking truth. Stating the obvious that the place has become infested by hustlers and tin foil hat wearing fantasists..

While anti semitic cranks like Jim Phelps are allowed free reign to pollute the place with his hateful fantasies, and Baggins is free to trawl for perspective marks and cult members while Butler and the vast majority of the wide eyed true believers have turned the so called Education Forum into some sort of nightmarish Kindergarten...turning out a conveyor belt of brain-dead brainwashed dolts..." You want to indulge in some holocaust denying? No problems just remember not to split your infinitives and dangle your participles..oh and most importantly always remember to say " please""

Chris wrote:But first of all, you would have to understand what’s being presented.

In order to make sure that people understand what's being presented, it really is necessary to explain things in words. That's the problem Chris had with that ridiculous 'math rules' thread on the Ed Forum. Page after page of mathematical formulae, and it was obvious that no-one had much of an idea of what it was all about. Even people who wanted to believe that something was wrong with the Zapruder film were asking Chris to explain what he was getting at.

Words are handy things. They help you to clarify your own ideas to yourself, so that you can identify what makes sense and what doesn't. Give it a try.

What is Chris trying to say with his latest gif? Here are a few things that come to mind:

(a) There's a 6'3" John Butler lookalike riding on the back of one of the police motorbikes! That means the Zapruder film is a fake!

(b) They've edited out Judyth Baker and Beverly Oliver pole-dancing on the Stemmons sign! That means the Zapruder film is a fake!

(c) If you look closely, the 5'6" Oswald doppelganger who visited the Bolton Ford dealer can be seen running along Elm Street disguised as a yeti! That means the Zapruder film is a fake!

Am I getting warm? If not, please explain in words exactly what you think your gifs are meant to illustrate.

P.S. Top marks to Chris for actually coming to this unsympathetic forum and putting his ideas forward. I can't see Lifton or Hargrove being brave enough to do that.

JeremyBojczuk wrote:
Words are handy things. They help you to clarify your own ideas to yourself, so that you can identify what makes sense and what doesn't. Give it a try.

What is Chris trying to say with his latest gif?

The un/matching(in more ways than one) bookend.
Makes perfect sense.

alex_wilson wrote:
If you can't explain the basics of your theory to enable others to attempt to repeat the phenomenon...then IMHO you really are fighting a losing battle,

It's only a losing battle for those who have not attempted to repeat/duplicate the phenomenon.

Start with a few basics:
What version/s of any B/H 414 film(color preferred), shot from the pedestal, on full zoom with the sprocket holes reproduced, have you used, to base/compare your conclusions on/to?

Have you plotted JFK's position in the limo using stationary background items to determine limo speed from Point A to B?

You have been provided with duplicate examples of the phenomenon involved in this part of the zfilm funny, figure out the process(not difficult) which might change the thinking and then we can move on.

Short of that, you're grasping at straws thinking the WC didn't use math(ratio's in this case)for manipulating limo speed/video frame excising for syncing.

Compare the extant zfilm to something other than itself.

Think about it.

Lord Gordo, erstwhile proprietor of Miss Thomasina Ttight Klunges Olde Time Tea and Muffin Shoppe took a break from his arduous schedule of village fêtes, tea parties at the vicarage and holding bake sales and raffles for those jolly nice chaps at UKIP, to drop in and berate that ne'er do well Jonathan Cohen..

The rascal had the damn cheek to spoil the dreamy antidiluvian ambience by actually speaking the fucking truth. Stating the obvious that the place has become infested by hustlers and tin foil hat wearing fantasists..

Just saw it. Gordon is is the Basil Fawlty of forum admin. Fawning toward polite hucksters and chasing out anyone who points out the problems with his "hotel".

Chris_Davidson wrote:

JeremyBojczuk wrote:
Words are handy things. They help you to clarify your own ideas to yourself, so that you can identify what makes sense and what doesn't. Give it a try.

What is Chris trying to say with his latest gif?

The un/matching(in more ways than one) bookend.
Makes perfect sense.

Chris,
If I didn't know any better I'd be almost certain you're taking the piss. Never ending random GIF's and never a clear concise explanation of what you're actually on about.

So according to Gordon it is better to lie politely than to tell the truth bluntly. What a crazy set of values.

P.S. Top marks to Chris for actually coming to this unsympathetic forum and putting his ideas forward. I can't see Lifton or Hargrove being brave enough to do that.

Chris is a bit harder to lampoon than a body-snatcher or a Hobbit impersonator. Nor would I even put him in the same bracket.

But yes, kudos for showing up. Absolutely agree with you and Alex and Mick on your assessments of Chris' contributions. He would earn brownie points if he could only bring himself to respond in the same plain manner that is used to question his work.

John Kowalski wrote:Jim:

You have won the debate. This response clearly shows that Parker's posse can't respond with facts and logical argument.  If they had these they would have posted them now.

John, steady on there, mate.

I don't have any posses. And never have had. I don't give orders, and never have. 

I would post those arguments myself if the cult had not baited and trolled me into retaliating and then run off to teacher to have me banned. Like they are attempting again with others right now. Or they can read them by clicking the links provided. Why on earth doesn't one of the brave soles copy my argument and take it apart over there? Hmmm. I think I know why. Some have in the past, tried to get away with reframing and rephrasing my arguments in order to knock down. That's a Sandy special. A simple copy and paste would be more honest, would it not? But no. Making up my arguments out of whole cloth is what they can do.

Failing that, the best I can do is offer to debate any of you here. I even offer to let you set the rules, guarantee no one else will enter the debate, and am willing to have a mutually agreed upon moderator for it. 

You are a member here already, iirc?  If no one is willing to take up the offer under those conditions, or to copy and paste one of the links provided in order to explain why I am wrong, I have to wonder why. 

It is correct btw that if you showed those records to a New Orleans teacher or a student of logic anywhere and gave them a number of options as to potential meaning, none , zero, zip would pick the option that it shows two different kids.  

Having read some of your posts away from the Harvey and Lee bubble, I suspect you have your share of intelligence. But smart people are only marginally less prone to stupid ideas than anyone else.

The hypocrisy and cowardice is utterly nauseating..

Lord Gordo , comes breezing in, with his cravat askew and his velvet smoking jacket crumpled, his eyebrow twitching uncontrollably, like the squirrels and red eyed critters in the Kentucky backwoods ....that time John Butler spiked the peanuts with angel dust, after leaving his shocking pink 1981 Ford Capri ( with the leopard print seat covers and the furry dice shaped like titties) parked outside Rev Fortescue Fflange's Vicarage( he's been out all night... cruising the jumble sales and coffee mornings for hot octogenarian action..... before hitting the Tea Dance and Tombola night at the Bognor Regis Woman's Institute..." Ding Dong Gladys.. just love the new hip!! Yeah baby varicose veins are really hot this year in St Tropez and Morecambe")...he calls his secretary to issue an edict; scolding those naughty scamps Jonathan and Jeremy for the heinous sin of " superiority" ,afterwards he proceeds , with his eyebrow quivering benignly, to read a few posts ...." Hmmm" he thinks as he helps himself to another slice of cake" this Jim Phelps sounds like a nice fellow.. maybe invite him and Paul Trejo over for a game of cribbage" Suddenly he feels a curious sensation , a sort of naughty tingling and then his his other eyebrow begins to twitch too. ...looking  across at the bright yellow golf sweater he plans to wear at evensong .. instead of the nearly pressed pullover he sees a voluptuous Hungarian fake mom in a frilly negligee.." What does Hargrove put in these cakes" he splutters... Feeling a tad flustered he takes a sip of tea and reads John Ks latest post...

" Parker's Posse...that's more like it " he thinks as an eight foot white rabbit   smoking a cheroot walks through the wall...arm in arm with a huge goateed Elvis impersonator hobbit and Albert Einstein disguised as a Mormon professor in a cowboy hat.. Just then his secretary, whose transformed into a Hitler moustache wearing Angela Lansbury cries out.." Brian Doyle is on the phone..if you don't let him rejoin the forum he's threatened to send a wave of suicide Larrytrotters...death by gibberish...James are you ok? You've not been eating those cakes again?"....

What a bunch of pathetic petty minded old fools. The embodiment of the true believers and the fundamentalist zealots. They really are. Just read through some of the shite..tepid regurgitations and self parody/ delusion in excelsis..

They're so confident they're right they try to shut down all " debate" by trying to get their detractors banned.. 

Ol' Jimbo Baggins really showed 'em... posting the same old shite he's been posting for over 20 years..a couple of blurry copies of decades old school records..

Obviously prima facie evidence of two non related near identical doppelgangers...I mean what else could it possibly be?

Gordo's incompetence ,combined with the air of smug humourless self satisfaction he's encouraged( wittingly or not) has chased away the vast majority of genuinely talented researchers... only a tiny handful remain..on a liferaft..surrounded by a dark ocean of indifference disturbed only by the flatulent emissions of the inflatable rubber sharks, that circle greedily..

John Butler is a fucking embarrassment..to call his ridiculous trash psuedo science is an insult to all self respecting pseudo scientists... The so called Ed forum is turning into a darkly comedic post ironic parody...Almost as bad as Stinky Mac's Funhouse...

Deep FooFoo is rapidly sinking into the deep doodoo.. that fucking place is beginning to resemble a scene from King Lear.... the blasted heath...with only Poor Dickie's deranged shrieking..." Pity poor Dickie...for poor Dickies a cold... and when are you arrogant egomaniacs with inferiority complexes going to back poor Dickies theory"

Thank Armstrong for this forum,  Gordo's incompetence and lack of vision has absolutely decimated that place...He's turned the place into the internet equivalent of Hengist Pod's workshop in Carry On Cleo....turning out a dazzling array of square wheels...

The High Priests of Doppelgangerism and the rag tag assortment of acolytes and would be apologists, trailing obediently in their wake have resorted to the " tactics" frequently deployed by their fellow tin foil hatters ...not to mention their closely related ideological kin....creationists, flat earthers etc... the hopeless, the hapless, the gullible , the demoralised ...those who drift aimlessly along, the detritus of an age they both fear and despise... desperate for something to believe in... something that makes them feel less afraid and less alone... something too to make sense out of a world that seems increasingly arbitrary, increasingly cruel, uncaring and most of all chaotic..

They have resorted to switching the burden of proof..

They don't have to prove a thing...no sirree... they're free to JAQ off( Just asking questions) to their little hearts content, spin their plates and weave their webs..in the dim twilight, in the dying rays of the setting sun , under the newly risen moon, it's silvery beams breathing new life into the tired shadows, the worn old rope shimmering anew like silken threads... And H and L is nothing more than a pile of very old, very worn, very frayed rope...

It's up to the detractors , the " disbelievers" to DISprove the " theory" they've come nowhere near proving...

To hear Mr Kowalski talk about logic and facts is beyond laughable. It's not remotely amusing. In fact it's a damn insult.   Read the 90 odd pages of the thread you are posting on..Search the forum, follow the links here...or even better come over here and use your facts and logic to make us all look like the over emotional unintelligent dunces you and your fellow doppelgangerists obviously think we are...

Instead of focusing on specific incidents we now get vague assertions, " who was impersonating Oswald in 1960?" inquires Denny Zartman...to which Baggins gleefully responds, with his usual subtle mixture of " Ah seen the light" preacherly exuberance and sly back alley graft..." And what about 1952?" Baggins declares, before adding a characteristically bombastic rhetorical flourish " Oswald is the most impersonated person ever"

I don't know if Messrs Zartman and Kowalski's intention was to be insulting, but that's how it comes across..Exchanging , or at least attempting to exchange, bon mots with John Butler, whose " work" is not only an insult to the JFK's memory, and his family but all the serious researchers who have studied this topic.

That's why H and L invokes such a negative response. Because like Judyth Vary Baker's lies, it has the potential to destroy the credibility of assassination research definitively. If someone enterprising mainstream journalist happened to get hold of Butler's ridiculous nonsense, or some of Fezzo's more esoteric doodles, laced with his grandiose paranoia drenched ravings about COINTELPRO, or some of Baggins more mischievous antics, or Norwood's priggish outbursts, he was the chairman of the OIC doncha know!! or even some of the good Professor Larsen's more geniusy excursions into the twilight zone...Burke and Hare meets Driller Killer... exercising his voracious intellect the eminent professor floated the possibility of a gang of Dremel drill wielding spooks breaking into to poor old HARVEYs vault to Oswaldify him...after all what could be simpler or more logical?? A team of grave robbing spooks armed with a power drill doing a bit of unorthodox exhumation just to give poor dead HARVEY a fake mastoidectomy scar...kinda poignant, fitting too...a fake scar for a fake Oswald!!

Insinuating that the " detractors" are somehow afraid of " debating" Jimbo Baggins.. afraid he'll unleash more of his " evidence" , dismantling their feeble arguments with his logic and his facts... It's a ridiculous charade...debate is the very last thing any of the doppelettes want... they ignore any facts that contradict their holy text..

Jimbo Baggins and co aren't remotely interested in any form of debate. Look at the Stripling " debate"? It soon devolved into low rent farce.. Jimbo Baggins posting and reposting the same old guff, refusing to discuss his so called " evidence"

Messrs Zartman and Kowalski would you " debate" a dreaded " Lone Nutter" who employed such childishly transparent and illogical tactics? If they kept posting newspaper headlines screaming out " Oswald killed Kennedy" 

John Butler makes a mockery of this entire subject. If you think this case is anyway enhanced by collaborating with a self styled photo analyst who knows absolutely nothing about photography and a historical researcher whose ignorance, incompetence and closemindedness  is utterly mindblowing then I think it's time for a serious reappraisal. I'm sorry if I sound superior or condescending but I find his nonsense genuinely offensive. And so should you. And in fact practically all of you did...until he voiced his support for the H and L fantasy...Are you really that desperate for recruits? 

Rather than spending your time lecturing others about facts and logic, attempting banal infantile insults and acting as a de facto Greek chorus for a man who has spent over two decades playing ridiculous games with the evidence, weaving a sickly web of despicable fantasy round a family who have suffered over half a century of vilification idI take a long hard look at yourselves.

Like most self styled troof seekers you seem to operate in a cosy well upholstered void...you  seem to think you and your fellow troofseekers are somehow beyond and above criticism... You seem unwilling, or perhaps unable to examine your own beliefs with the same rigour you apply to others. The benefit of the doubt you so assiduously deny to any government stooge, LNer or mainstream journalist you happily and unthinkingly surrender to any two bit tout or fellow true believer..

You are free to spread the most outrageous lies ; blackening reputations, spreading calumnies and falsehoods and creating an alternative history out of counterfeit facts ...a history every bit as damaging and deceptive as the orthodox establishment version.. That fanciful slice of literary surrealism, the practically unreadable ode to the stx degrees of separation, Michele Metta's " investigation" of CMC Permindex etc went out of its way to diminish the reputation of an incredibly brave man who risked his Life to save 1000s of jews..

You and your confreres quite obviously know absolutely fuck all about Russian language and culture..but that hasn't stopped you from spreading a pack of ridiculous lies.. creating a totally spurious mythology around Oswalds " mysterious" acquisition of Russian..

Instead of contacting an expert you rely upon Petrov, highlighting the fact he was an Ivy League professor..A native RUSSIAN speaker analysing Oswalds written RUSSIAN would not establish if Oswald was a native English speaker..

As he unquestionably was.

How about " debating" that point Mr Kowalski? Perhaps you could deploy some of your celebrated" facts" and debunk that contention using your peerless grasp of logic...

You seem unable to countenance the possibility that facts exist outwith your self sealed conspiracy bubble. Likewise you seem predisposed to discount, indeed ignore any facts that contradict your beliefs..

Like other conspiracists you seem to have deluded yourself into believing you have created your own cosmology...a self contained conspira centric universe...

Simply by painting stars on your ceiling and calling it the sky...

Why don't you copy and paste the arguments here and then proceed to demolish them at your leisure?

Surely you have more integrity and backbone than the venerable Professor Larsen? 

What a clown!! He totally skewered and misrepresented Greg's argument but STILL he couldn't counter his points....with out drifting off into conspiracy dreamland..

Why not debate the mastoidectomy? Perhaps you could explain why Armstrong chose to omit or distort certain facts...Lets start with Myrtle Evans and Dorothy Marcum..

Then we can move onto Allen Felde... obviously Armstrong was so busy being righteous and holy he simply forgot to include the part where his HARVEY was described as wearing thick horn rimmed glasses..

Being so devoted to facts obviously you'll be eager to clear up the mistake, after all, God forbid, you wouldn't want any one to think Armstrong's intention was to misrepresent witnesses who's statements contradicted his basic axiom..

Likewise no doubt you'll be able to clear up the " misunderstandings" regarding certain photographs...

Let's start with the missing tooth photo...long touted as a bedrock of the theory...Mr Kowalski how exactly did that black marker line happen to end up where the missing tooth was supposed to be?

Don't you not understand how after two decades of endlessly and vociferously squealing about all manner of alteration and disinfo people might get just a little bit miffed when they apparently discover unimpeachable proof of blatant forgery? Tampering with evidence just to bolster a preposterous pack of lies?

To be honest I choose to ridicule the theory because it is ridiculous and worthy of satire...

I've absolutely nothing against you, on the contrary I have a great deal of respect for anyone who has the courage to attempt to unravel and make sense out of such a divisive and controversial subject

Without wanting to sound condescending or " superior" you need to start putting the actual facts before your beliefs.. Rather than looking for facts to confirm your existing beliefs why not just follow the fucking facts?

To be honest I think what Jimbo Baggins is doing, rather what he's attempting to do and failing rather catastrophically is despicable and quite frankly beneath contempt..

He's a salesman . Nothing else. Trying to peddle a nonsensical theory that has the very real potential of making any rational critic look like a wild eyed tin foil hat wearing fantasist

Addendum:

Denny Zartman is over on the 13 Inch Head forum asking about Oswald being " impersonated" in 1960..

I presume he must be referring to the FBI document which sees Hoover DISCUSSING the POSSIBILITY that someone else maybe using Oswald's birth certificate

Does that sound right? Greg? 

To me it looks like pretty standard H and L methodology.

Creating a false mystery out of document/ record/ witness statement they've blatantly and knowingly misrepresented

At the very height of the Cold War, having first intimated he was going " abroad to study" only to show up in the Soviet Union, an ex Marine making noises about " sharing secrets" with the Soviets, not to mention the fact that Oswald's mother( fake mother?) was sending letters, asking questions, and with the newspaper coverage too....OF COURSE Hoover would have to at least CONSIDER the POSSIBILITY that someone might have got hold of his passport/ birth certificate...Is that really such an outrageous outlandish proposition?

This is just another example of the wrongheaded approach and the almost pathological unwillingness to even consider other explanations..It just HAS to be proof of a double doppelganger project...The doppelgangerists want it both ways, they have veritable armies of agents running around altering and confiscating documents but yet somehow they claim the same conspirators were stupid enough to leave documents like this lying around..

Anyway I don't see any references to the putative doppelganger..it was Oswald's ( singular) passport. Just like Wilmot refers to an Oswald ( singular) project starting when he joined the Marines..

I don't understand it...the absolute refusal even to countenance the existence of rational explanations..Look at any other major crime...the raft of false sightings/ cranks/ fake witnesses etc.. except in this one single case apparently...all such claims are genuine, not only that they are proof of a decade long double doppelganger project...

No.

A document enquiring about the POSSIBILITY that someone is  using Oswald's ( singular) passport is proof of a decade long double doppelganger project involving two near identical unrelated boys and their fake mothers, a project I may add would ( if it HAD existed) almost certainly been scrubbed due to the fact that all operations of that vintage were known to have been totally compromised..or in the real world, been totally pointless..

And you wonder why we have a little satirical fun at your expense???

Why create this incredibly convoluted scheme ..to have an Eastern European polyglot doppelganger impersonate an American Marine? A doppelganger who was nowhere near a native Russian speaker , on the contrary he was quite clearly a native English speaker..

The High Priests hone in on the micro level, focusing on the apparent ambiguities...whilst dismissing the macro level... the big picture that quite clearly reveals the utter absurdity of the entire project..

Mr Zartman, you seem like an articulate, personable guy... generally your posts are both insightful and incisive.. I hope you can ignore the jokes and the satire..and the (at times) colourful epiphets. Some of us, especially those who have been dealing with Baggins for years, get sick and tired of his shenanigans and his willingness to play silly games with the evidence. 

Personally I feel like I was conned. How can anyone possibly hope to reach a well informed conclusion when vast chunks of the evidence has been wilfully obscured or even distorted? Isn't that what disgusts us all about the Warren Report? Manipulating evidence and forcing it to fit a predetermined conclusion? Do you really think the American born Lee Harvey Oswald was up on the Sixth floor blazing away at JFK?

Believe me I understand where you're coming from. I used to believe in H and L too, and not so long ago i'd be agreeing with you.

Quite frankly the people who cooked up this steaming pile of shite didn't really know what they were doing.... they were enamoured with the idea of two Oswalds and desperate to be acclaimed as the ones who finally solved the enigma of Lee Oswald..

They were out of their way, IMHO to avoid seeking expert opinions

On the one subject I feel reasonably qualified to talk about imI absolutely positive if they had approached a Russian language expert, ( and this is the crucial point) who was a native ENGLISH speaker...the mystery of Oswald's linguistic skills would have been solved.

Just by listening to him speak itsi blatantly obvious he was a native English speaker. Likewise the level of Russian he actually attained was perfectly possible for someone with the requisite talent and motivation.

The whole birth certificate/ passport thing seems initially compelling but if you actually read the wording and when you put it in the proper context/perspective...here was a guy who had apparently defected ..of course they had to entertain the possibility of someone using his birth certificate and/ or passport..why is that so difficult to accept?

I don't understand the problem? How you get from there to decade plus double doppelganger projects is, to me at least, a bizarre leap of logic. Faith would perhaps be the more appropriate word.

Denny, read H and L, go through all of Armstrong's OWN footnotes..

This is what I find somewhat puzzling you seem to be all for asking questions and reaching your own conclusions, but yet you berate others for questioning the logistics of the supposed Oswald Project? Is it not perfectly reasonable, not to mention understandable to question something that not only seems both implausible and impracticable but goes against all basic tradecraft? Having two near identical doppelgangers going to the SAME fucking school at the SAME fucking time? Shuttling some phantasmal polyglot Hungarian kid round the Continental United States with his non smiling unibrowed doppelganger mom? For nearly a decade?? All that work and planning? What for? I won't insult your intelligence by asking if you've every read anything about how actual intelligence agencies operate. I was fortunate enough to be acquainted with several high ranking officers from both the KGB and the GRU... I got to know a few of them and their families quite well. Of course I can't be absolutely sure if they told me the truth, but when I asked them about H and L ( and remember Denny the Soviets had a well established illegal programme) they looked at me as if I was crazy..

 Are these not perfectlyvalid questions? Is it not valid too to look at the so called Oswald project and compare it with contemporary projects?

Please don't be offended but to ignore problems with particular theory just because you happen to believe it, is, to my thinking at least, the very epitome of intellectual dishonesty..

If anything you should examine your own beliefs even more rigourously..
The willingness to overlook the nonsensical central premise etc and this strange determination to endlessly rehash subjects that have perfectly rational explanations, explanations that are a simple click away is an utter waste of time. Do you think another 90 odd pages of Baggins posting the same old guff is going to further the discussion? Do you honestly think John Butler's contributions are valid? Do you think most photos of Oswald involve some sort of facemask?? Do you think a man who refuses to listen preferring instead to call his " detractors" " lone gunners" if not attempting to run squealing like a bitch to the headmaster in hopes of getting them banned, is someone worth taking seriously?

If you are genuinely interested in a straightforward debate why not join this forum? Or why not simply copy and paste? Or search through the threads at the Ed Forum?

To insinuation that H and L critics are somehow afraid of " debate" is not only highly disingenuous and completely untrue.. it's also beneath you..

I'm sorry to say this Denny but while you are quick enough to criticize individuals you disagree with you seem some what reticent to offer similar criticisms when others, who just so happen to share your outlook, behave in exactly the same way...

Selective outrage is never a good look.. Like Gordon scolding Jonathan and Jeremy while at the same time, on the very same fucking thread he turns a blind eye to numerous taunts and insinuations..

I don't know about you but accusations of being a paid disinformation agent, someone sent to purposefully mislead and misinform is a damn sight worse than tepid murmurings about " superiority"..