Prayer Man with a rounded collar.

Thu 26 Oct 2023, 8:36 pm

First topic message reminder :

prayer - Prayer Man with a rounded collar. - Page 4 Darnell-new-frame-cropped

I first saw this a few years ago and thought it was an image altered by someone in Duncan's crowd to poke fun at those who support Prayer Man as a man. Note the feminine collar.

But yesterday a guy name Alan Ford posted it on EF (here) and said that Bart Kamp published it "a while back." Then he claimed that a James Hackerott had predicted years earlier that the neckline on PM would prove to be a problem for Prayer Man supporters. (He had seen the copy of Darnell frames at the Sixth Floor Museum.)

What do you guys think about this?

Tue 31 Oct 2023, 11:18 am

sandylarsen wrote:

I first saw this a few years ago and thought it was an image altered by someone in Duncan's crowd to poke fun at those who support Prayer Man as a man. Note the feminine collar.

But yesterday a guy name Alan Ford posted it on EF (here) and said that Bart Kamp published it "a while back." Then he claimed that a James Hackerott had predicted years earlier that the neckline on PM would prove to be a problem for Prayer Man supporters. (He had seen the copy of Darnell frames at the Sixth Floor Museum.)

What do you guys think about this?

Mr Ford puts a lot of weight on the claim that Mr Hackerott has stated that every single fame of the 6FM footage shows the alleged "scoop neck".

Thanks to Vinny, I was easily able to track down what Mr. Hackerott really said.

Quote from: Frederick Clements on June 14, 2021, 05:49:05 PM
In your opinion James, who is Prayer Man?

Fred
Frederick, I don’t have an opinion on the ID of Prayer Man. I believe it is not Oswald. I began thinking he/she was an obese woman, not necessarily Stanton. After viewing the SFM’s Darnell video, and noting a thin linear feature like a string tie (see the tracing overlay in the op) I realized the style of ties in 1963 were fairly thin - so a thin tie is possible. A tie, open collar and short sleeves are the most notable features I observed. It is my opinion that a real and useful enhancement would at a minimum start with high quality digital copies of the museum's DVD frames and then analyzed with stacking techniques. This will probably never happen though. Ultimately, digital copies directly from the film would give the best results. However, I doubt that even then there will be enough resolution to make a universally accepted identification.
James

So..............! An open neck shirt with short or rolled up sleeves and a thin tie WERE THE MOST NOTICEABLE FEATURES. However, I doubt that even then there will be enough resolution to make a universally accepted identification.

Or put another way....! Until the work is done to obtain the clearest possible results, Mr. Hackerott's claims are no better than anyone else's (excepts Brian's).

For the purpose of this discussion, note that Mr Hackerott makes no mention of a scoop neck dress... and the overall impression is that he was LESS convinced it was a female after viewing the footage, not more.

Tue 31 Oct 2023, 11:51 am

Outstanding guys!!
PM Deniers are a special bunch.
So no tits.
Darn,, Brian promised titties and a pearl necklace, interchangable wigs, and large easy to undo buttons.
Think he's been whacking off to gifs of Sarah's arm flab's undulations?
Well, as usual really good work by Vinny and Greg.
AF and cohorts, not so much.

Tue 31 Oct 2023, 12:04 pm

Jake_Sykes wrote:

Vinny wrote:Alan has coming up with weird theories for years. Here is one from 2018.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1428.0.html

Ah, so another frenetic attention seeker with a pattern of behavior wherein he swaps out the identities of the stair people like an interior designer swapping swatches of fabric for the curtains.

Well, again, I don't want to bash the man for changing his mind. We should all do it if/when presented with better evidence or logic.

But Vinny and Jake have nailed it. This is more than that Or apart from that. It is Weird theories where blurry photos and film are used to swap people in and out. It is the JFK Online Parlor Game that anyone can play. Fun for the whole family!

I was always suspicious of Mr. Ford and his online doppelganger, Mr. Ford.

They are the Serbia and Croatia of Stinky's version of European Utopia -aka The Pissorium.

And Heaven forbid but Brian is right. The overly formal, overly polite schtick is part of the reason for suspicion. What we see in his Ed Forum thread is the façade sometimes slipping to reveal fleeting glimpses of the sneering and seething under it all.

I say, let it all hang out, baby!

Meanwhile.....! The time zone difference continues to make this hard to keep up with and follow.

Where are we right now?

Mr. Oswald brought a sack to work containing:

His lunch
a flag
his "pro-Cuban" dress code uniform

After that I'm lost. Did he also bring the rifle? What about Buell's sun glasses (refer to Mr. Hackerott's assurances as to what he saw at the 6fm)?

Mr. Ford's comment about a Monty Python script may not be far off the mark.

The funniest part?

Roy Truly and others in the TSBD hierarchy readily agreed to help Kennedy with the fake assassination attempt.

Jack Cason's wife reportedly said at a party that Kennedy should be shot. Roy Truly's wife was the cousin of the radical right hero Claire Chennault. Truly testified that even his African-American employees were fairy conservative. Of course they were! They knew the rules to survival in Dallas.

The photo analysis is crud. The theorizing and speculation is juvenile.

As for us? It is up to him to support his claims, not for us to disprove them (though they have been).

Our position has not changed.

The PM pics were not how this started, nor are they needed to prove his alibi. They are merely additional items of possible verification
We will not declare PM to be Oswald with 100% certainty until clearer pics verify it

Mr. Ford's desire to see us abandon the above positions in order to embrace the latest in his Conga line of counter-theories is bemusing to say the least.

Tue 31 Oct 2023, 2:07 pm

greg_parker wrote:
Thanks to Vinny, I was easily able to track down what Mr. Hackerott really said.

Quote from: Frederick Clements on June 14, 2021, 05:49:05 PM
In your opinion James, who is Prayer Man?

Fred
Frederick, I don’t have an opinion on the ID of Prayer Man. I believe it is not Oswald. I began thinking he/she was an obese woman, not necessarily Stanton. After viewing the SFM’s Darnell video, and noting a thin linear feature like a string tie (see the tracing overlay in the op) I realized the style of ties in 1963 were fairly thin - so a thin tie is possible. A tie, open collar and short sleeves are the most notable features I observed. It is my opinion that a real and useful enhancement would at a minimum start with high quality digital copies of the museum's DVD frames and then analyzed with stacking techniques. This will probably never happen though. Ultimately, digital copies directly from the film would give the best results. However, I doubt that even then there will be enough resolution to make a universally accepted identification.
James

So..............! An open neck shirt with short or rolled up sleeves and a thin tie WERE THE MOST NOTICEABLE FEATURES. However, I doubt that even then there will be enough resolution to make a universally accepted identification.

(<Link> to the above quote.)

That is what Hackerott said in June 2021. Earlier, in October 2019, he made these drawings while viewing Darnell frames at the SFM:

prayer - Prayer Man with a rounded collar. - Page 4 GWXgm1K

prayer - Prayer Man with a rounded collar. - Page 4 GWXgm1K

He posted them, with explanations, <here>.

This is what he thought he was seeing:

prayer - Prayer Man with a rounded collar. - Page 4 4qaFFXx

Tue 31 Oct 2023, 4:19 pm

Except...
Nothing matches up.
These are three different variations.
They are not supportive of each other.

prayer - Prayer Man with a rounded collar. - Page 4 Zombod85

Even among his three sketches they vary greatly.
Again neither supports the other.

prayer - Prayer Man with a rounded collar. - Page 4 Gwxgm110

Here I thought going to the sixth floor museum. And viewing this higher quality image would have higher quality details.
Things like the receding hairline become fuzzy wigs, indiscriminate folicular renderings.
But bare arms for sure....

Ive seen the unibrow, its called a blur, and where are eyes nose mouth?
Duncan had better luck faking an image.
I am not sure all this SFM hokum passes the sniff test.

Why does prayer person have huge gaping neck line? And then not, it's just a tight little collar, or necklace,.
that rounded collar sure transforms itself.
Or perhaps its a guy with a white t-shirt under a work shirt, and at different frames more or less of the white undershirt can be seen.
Occam said hello.

Tue 31 Oct 2023, 8:02 pm

barto wrote:They know absolutely nothing about photography, they do not understand film types, processing, lighting, generational loss and so one.

Correct! It's so much easier to speculate about faked photographs and films when you don't give any thought to how it might actually have been done. Something looks kinda sorta not quite right ... it must be a fake!

sandylarsen wrote:It's good to know that Sean Murphy agrees with me, that Lovelady's left arm is really Carl Jones's raised right arm and hand.

Sean Murphy was writing more than a decade ago, and presumably had access only to a relatively poor-quality digital copy.

I pointed out the following fact at the Ed Forum a week or so ago, but I'll repeat it here. On page 186 of Robert Groden's The Killing of a President there's a good-quality reproduction of Lovelady in Altgens 6. It contains a greater tonal range than any of the digital versions I've seen posted online. In Groden's version, the 'plaid' pattern of Lovelady's shirt is clearly visible on the left sleeve. The pattern on the sleeve matches the pattern on the front of the shirt. It also matches the pattern on the sleeves in the Martin film and in the news film from the police station.

What it doesn't match is Carl Jones's shirt, the front of which is an even-toned light grey in Altgens 6. Jones's shirt sleeves are visible in other black-and-white photographs, and they too are an even-toned light grey.

Groden claims on page 186 that he made his copy of Altgens 6 from the original negative. Now, not all of Groden's past claims have been credible, but I see no reason to doubt this particular claim, since he has nothing to gain from it and he is known to have had access to numerous other original negatives, slides and films (how Groden managed to accumulate all these items is another question [please don't speculate - ROKC legal department]).

The detail evident in Groden's image in his book indicates that he did indeed make his copy from the original negative.

Sandy has suggested that the online versions which don't show much or any detail in the sleeve are authentic while the online versions which do show a mottled pattern had that pattern painted in some time later. Groden's version in his book must also have been painted in. If it was, the painters did a good job, a much better job than they did on the online versions. Needless to say, this latest allegation of photo-fakery is just as lacking in supporting evidence as most of the others we've seen over the decades.

Seriously, though, the pattern on Lovelady's sleeve wasn't painted in. His sleeve matched the rest of his shirt, and he is visible, wearing the same shirt and with the same balding hairline, in the Martin film and the news film.

Vinny wrote:Alan has coming up with weird theories for years.

and

greg_parker wrote:The photo analysis is crud.

As for Mr Ford at the Ed Forum, his fanciful speculations about blobs in various photos and films looked interesting, at least until he started making photo-alteration noises. More often than not, those noises are the sign of someone who doesn't appreciate that what you see (or think you see) in a copy of a copy of a copy of a photo or film isn't necessarily what actually existed.

Sure enough, he now seems to be claiming that a screen shot of a hand-held print in a really poor-quality TV broadcast is a more accurate depiction of Lovelady in Altgens 6 than Groden's copy from the original negative. He seems unable to work out that he's looking at a severely degraded image, and that the poor quality is the result of the limitations of 1960s TV (as well, presumably, as the process of turning the image on the screen into the digital copy he posted online). If that's what he really thinks, Ford's photo analysis is almost at the White/Butler level of numbskullery.

On the plus side, he does have an amusing writing style, and he apparently has the good sense to live in Switzerland, a spectacular (if spectacularly expensive) country.

Tue 31 Oct 2023, 8:24 pm

Alan fits in well at the EF. After all he seems quite polite and civil. Which is the main quality that EF looks for in its members. Whether one's post is accurate or not does not matter as long as they use a polite tone.

Tue 31 Oct 2023, 11:45 pm

" Lance Cohort Wilson, 2nd platoon, Skagit company, Regiment du Drole Troll Punk, Brigade Minion reporting for duty, sir"

I stand by everything I wrote, Chris. Your subsequent reply to Steely just further underlines your condescending attitude. As if we're all mere proles, blundering around in the darkness, whilst you, via the power of gif, are one of the anoited few. The truly enlightened.

If patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel then surely " You're too dumb to understand my theory" is the last resort of the slighted researcher. Who blames others for their unconvincing theories

Do you not understand how insulting it is? Posting in some unintelligible psuedo technical pidgin?

Answering sincere requests with yet more obscure gifs, appended with some characteristically vague elliptical musings?

What the fuck does the gif if a bush have to do with a raincoat and some blurry old footage?

Are you researching or trying out material to include in a pitch for some quirky offbeat surrealistic quiz show? " I Dada but do you?"

If, after all this time your work is still met by a wall of blank uncomprehending stares and almost universal bafflement ( even amongst fellow travellers and alterationist diehards) I think that's a pretty overwhelming ( negative) reflection of the theories themselves, rather than the intellectual acuity of the intended audience.

Regarding the change of hypocrisy, I don't see any sort of equivalence between an admitted non expert preferring an off the cuff opinion and a self appointed expert declaring something has been definitively proved.

As Greg said, I've often gone out of my way to compliment your other attributes, Sandy, I'm sure you are a talented engineer and a decent human being, the good natured humourous skits attempt to satirise the inflexibility, the self righteousness and almost unbelievable arrogance of the hard line conspiracy illogic, which so often manifests itself

Incidentally, while we're on the subject of hypocrisy, I might mention in passing the continuing presence of a certain Ms O Hara.

She seems strangely immune, fire proof you might even say, from the ire and wrath of the moderators/ administrators. While other members, who could fairly be described as " less than equal "- Messrs Cotter, Koch and Cole in particular, not to mention Jonathan, the latter being banned for an almost laughably frivolous " offence "- are regularly banned for various apparent infringements

Their respective bannings may or may not be justified, and it's certainly none of my business how you choose to run your private forum, but when charges of hypocrisy are levelled then I don't think it's unfair or out of bounds to point out the gross hypocrisy regarding Ms O Hara

Who not only posts under a false name, in direct contradiction of your own rules, frequently posts " facts" that are blatantly and provably inaccurate but also resorts to using your forum, that advertises itself, apparently free of irony as an education forum, no less, as a virtual market stall to flog a book based, to a large extent on an extremely dubious " datebook "

A couple more thoughts on the subject of alleged photo alteration. Surely it's not unreasonable to suspect some sort of digital/ photoshop manipulation in images that have been admittedly manipulated?

Making speculative non expert observations about recent embellishments, in some cases remarkably different from all previous iterations is hardly comparable to claiming to have proved elaborate forgery utilising hitherto unknown techniques/ technology?

I don't think it's the notion of alteration, per se, that most people object to ( speaking from a purely personal perspective I would have absolutely no problem if it could be proven, unequivocally that certain assassination related photos/ films were altered with nefarious intent, like many I suspect I'd actually welcome it)

It's the clumsy, counterproductive sometimes downright amateurish and embarrassing efforts , coupled with the extravagant claims most folks object to imho.

Lastly, as widespread alteration ( of photos/ films/ documents even people) is a bedrock of the jocular H and L theory , I find it puzzling that none of the main proponents, in the past, not exactly known for their reticence when it comes to allegations of alteration, have conmented on the glaring " alteration "( and it doesn't get much more glaring than a thick black marker line in the wild and wacky world of alterationism) of the so called " missing tooth " photo. So often touted as unimpeachable evidence if the theory...

Lance Cohort Wilson signing off, Roger, HARVEY, over and out

Wed 01 Nov 2023, 1:50 am

sandylarsen wrote:

greg_parker wrote:
Thanks to Vinny, I was easily able to track down what Mr. Hackerott really said.

Quote from: Frederick Clements on June 14, 2021, 05:49:05 PM
In your opinion James, who is Prayer Man?

Fred
Frederick, I don’t have an opinion on the ID of Prayer Man. I believe it is not Oswald. I began thinking he/she was an obese woman, not necessarily Stanton. After viewing the SFM’s Darnell video, and noting a thin linear feature like a string tie (see the tracing overlay in the op) I realized the style of ties in 1963 were fairly thin - so a thin tie is possible. A tie, open collar and short sleeves are the most notable features I observed. It is my opinion that a real and useful enhancement would at a minimum start with high quality digital copies of the museum's DVD frames and then analyzed with stacking techniques. This will probably never happen though. Ultimately, digital copies directly from the film would give the best results. However, I doubt that even then there will be enough resolution to make a universally accepted identification.
James

So..............! An open neck shirt with short or rolled up sleeves and a thin tie WERE THE MOST NOTICEABLE FEATURES. However, I doubt that even then there will be enough resolution to make a universally accepted identification.

(<Link> to the above quote.)

That is what Hackerott said in June 2021. Earlier, in October 2019, he made these drawings while viewing Darnell frames at the SFM:

He posted them, with explanations, <here>.

This is what he thought he was seeing:

He made those sketches based on what he called "a trace of a single screen printout."

prayer - Prayer Man with a rounded collar. - Page 4 Hacker10

Hard to see a female there. But to each his own.

I would also point out this makes things worse for Mr. Ford.

It is now clear that Mr. Ford is betting the farm on someone who changed his mind over time about what he saw. It is not as if in June 2021, he no longer had access to his previous posts or his sketches.

Moreover, we now also know that Mr. Ford is quite willing to present the 2019 version as holy writ and fail to tell his readers that Hackerott was leaning toward quite a different view by mid 2021.

The flip-flopping makes Hackerott a poor rack to hang your hat on.

Ed Ledoux wrote:that rounded collar sure transforms itself.
Or perhaps its a guy with a white t-shirt under a work shirt, and at different frames more or less of the white undershirt can be seen.
Occam said hello.

Exactly. The probability is that it was indeed a loose-necked white t-shirt, and what is mistaken as a thin tie is the outline of a work shirt over that where you button it up.

There are so many issues with Mr Ford's posts, it is hard to know where to start.

But he sure comes up with some head-scratchers.

I particularly like his declarations that he is going to proceed to outline what is speculation (even if that word doesn't pass his typing finger) without attention to problems or weaknesses.

That's like saying I am going to drive this prototype new-age car that runs on Flower Power and was designed without any concern for problems or weaknesses because we don't need that negativity shit while driving, man. What could possibly go wrong?

And for the love of Mary, why the fuck does the alleged plot have Oswald dressed up and putting up pro-Cuba banners or whatever AFTER the fucking assassination attempt?

That is as crazy as the so-called epileptic (he wasn't) having a seizure as a diversion.... and ignoring that it happened 10 or 15 minutes BEFORE the shots.

Jeremy B wrote:On the plus side, he does have an amusing writing style, and he apparently has the good sense to live in Switzerland, a spectacular (if spectacularly expensive) country.

Mmm. Well, everybody has to live somewhere.

And they make lovely army knives.

Interesting fact. Australia has more Alan Fords per capita than Switzerland does. I would suspect that the UK, USA, Canada and maybe even New Zealand, Serbia, Greece and Hungary do as well.

I have no need of Switzerland, despite their fine army knives. Should I ever take up skiing, our Alps have more snow than the Swiss ones. And there is probably an Alan Ford frequenting a local pub as I type who no doubt spins an entertaining yarn.

Wed 01 Nov 2023, 10:19 am

Swiss Miss my arse,

prayer - Prayer Man with a rounded collar. - Page 4 Zombom47

Wed 01 Nov 2023, 12:33 pm

Seems to be just another ploy to make PM seem ridiculous and divert the debate.

Wed 01 Nov 2023, 1:25 pm

They hate books, especially ones with more than fuzzy pictures.

Wed 01 Nov 2023, 1:32 pm

"There are so many issues with Mr Ford's posts, it is hard to know where to start."
Indeed by just checking out the last current page the EF can pride itself of having another CTer nutcase amongst them.

There is hope for Doyle to be let back in, what say you Sandy Larsen?
Linda O'Hara has gotten away with it then so should he.
#Lettheshitposterbackin

Fri 03 Nov 2023, 12:29 am

John Cotter @ the 13 Inch Headite HQ wrote:Howdy, Mr Ford. I’m intrigued by your exposition.

I haven’t been so intrigued by anything here since the original Prayer Man thread led by Sean Murphy 10 years ago. I don’t see your line of argument as threatening to the Prayer Man thesis as others do, since the main thrust of that thesis is that Oswald was out in the TSBD doorway (as subsequently effectively proved by the Hosty note discovered by Bart Kamp in Malcolm Blunt’s papers) rather than up on the sixth or second floor.

Whether Oswald was actually Prayer Man or another “fuzzy” figure in the TSBD doorway is of secondary importance. I don’t understand why people are so hostile to the idea that Oswald could be a fuzzy figure other than the one they insist he is. Such hostility seems to contradict the “more than a fuzzy picture” Prayer Man thesis, as above explained.

Anyway, keep her lit. I’m looking forward to more of your instalments.

Well, John, it's not that difficult - at least in speaking for myself. I have zero objection to anyone making an argument that Oswald is somewhere else in the doorway.

I mean, I will put aside the fact that we have two lensmen on this forum with many many decades of experience, and listen. And only after listening will I compare these new ideas to what those cameramen have said over the years.

But as the section of this forum called "debunked" is testimony to, I have zero tolerance for evidence-free and astoundingly stupid, illogical theories.

And that is what Mr. Ford has appended to his alternate Oswald spotting. It's a real buzzkill if ever there was one, especially when combined with appalling attempts at photo analysis beyond a mere discussion about where on the steps Oswald actually stood.

I also ask myself, just how genuine is Mr. Ford?

He started out with friendly overtures for those here to get behind his new theories.

Absolute bullshit. That was never "real".

Anyone serious about the subject and wanting those here to join his efforts, would have done what, John?

That's right. I knew you were smart. They would have joined THIS forum to make the pitch and argued the points in person.

But the fact is, Mr. Ford knows where his shit will play well.

John to Sandy wrote:Since you accept that they're all fuzzy pictures, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to be so adamant about what any of them appears to represent in detail.

And yet, this is a precise description of Mr. Ford's adamant stance that all the frames in Darnell show a "scoop neck dress" and that if the "scoop neck" version was what Sean Murphy had presented, PM would have been a stillbirth.

Let's look again at this trace of a frame printout By Mr. Hackerott.

You do, I assume, know what the word "trace" means"? Do you see a fucking scoop neck in this trace of the fucking frame?

I will just close by saying Mr. Ford is not as clever as he thinks he is. "I reckon", indeed. LOL Come out of the closet Mr. Ford. No shame.

prayer - Prayer Man with a rounded collar. - Page 4 9k=

prayer - Prayer Man with a rounded collar. - Page 4 9k=

Fri 03 Nov 2023, 1:25 am

Come back Mr Piltdown Man, all is forgiven!! Oh Mr Cardiff Giant, we hardly knew thee!

Even good old PT Barnum and his Fiji mermaid( who must be sipping Pina Coladas, on an infernal veranda, gazing out over a suitably Boschian hellscape- Barnum , that is , not the mermaid I hasten to add, for the benefit of our cranially enhanced chums, just in case they happen to pop in - with Messrs Dulles, Jackson, Angleton, Goebbels and Machiavelli, " Honestly, boys", he grins, the glint from the tip of a passing pitchfork causing his bifocals to glimmer wickedly, " It's not just the heat that's making ol' P.T. blush like a curate in a Kansas City whorehouse ")

I couldn't believe what I was reading...

Surely, this must be some sort of wind up?

I'll wager nowhere else in cyberspace, or beyond, will lurkers be treated to earnest faux collegial discussions, debating the apparent materialisation of some hitherto unknown and unrecorded double headed cephalopod Billy Lovelady monstrosity , in the vicinity of the TSBD doorway...

DOUBLE HEADED BILLY LOVELADYS

Forget about prosaic old Elm Street, the TSBD doorway is starting to resemble some sort of grotesque mutant producing laboratory on the Island of Dr Fezzeau ( aka Dr HARVEY Moreau)

We've already seen Frankenstein Sarah Stanton ( aka the Bride of Dr Fezzeau) a skinwalker with an exotic wig fetish and a ginormous pair of invisible titties, now we have the Half Man Half Shadow, presumably the plaid shirted doppelganger stand in for Billy Lovelady ( unless this was Double Headed Billy Lovelady snapped in mid materialisation, always a potentially tricky situation, The Armless Wonder, the militant revolutionary doppelganger of Elm Street, frantically waving the Cuban flag he smuggled in, with his CIA Technical Services division issue prop apple and cheese sandwich, in a brown paper bag.

I shudder to think what other marvels Messrs Ford and Larsen have in store.

Ive always been suspicious of Bill Shelley, have you ever seen him and the Wolfman in the same room?

DOUBLE HEADED BILLY LOVELADYS...

Armstrong have mercy on us all...

Is this some sort of bizarre competition? Is M Ford attempting to out doppelganger Professor Sanford and his colleagues, over at the H and L Brainstrust.

At least John Armstrong had the common decency ( not to mention the courtesy) to include the requisite number of bodies with his fictional doppelgangers, but DOUBLE HEADED BILLY LOVELADYS

Let the poor guy rest in peace for Armstrong's sake

Already we've been forced to endure the unsettling, quite frankly disturbing vision of Ralph Cinque and crew fiddling around with the poor old geezer's forehead .

And, let's be quite candid here, the prospect of Jim Fetzer going doppelganging is something that should be avoided at all costs ( maybe that's what his chins were, he was incubating his own doppelganger)

How much more indignity must poor old Billy Lovelady suffer?

It's turning into something of an alterationists reunion, all we need is Don Jeffries showing up with his ouija board..." Are you there Eva? If you are reach out and touch me..oh sorry, I got my seances mixed up, we're trying to contact the disembodied spirit of Jack White, right?". Even Raul Pigby has surfaced, a staunch long time advocate of extreme alterationism and quantum conspiracing aka the chaos theory of conspiracy ( I.e. base a considerable percentage of your outlandish, downright wacky claims on a film you claim was not only substantially altered, reshot even, but storyboarded in advance) Master Pigby was once an admittedly brief collaborator of Ralph fucking Cinque.

As usual our portentously porcine pal came up with absolutely nothing to support his eccentric ( putting it INCREDIBLY mildly) claims, just more clumsy attempts at wit, even clumsier attempts at sneering at us poor unenlightened souls, he once christened " anti alterationists " ( sounds like some sort of dissident sect in the pre revolutionary Russian Bolsheviks)

Plus an article that has precisely fuck all to do with the subject at hand

The venerable Professor Sanford descended from the Olympian heights of his self regard ( and his self bestowed Professorial chair) to deliver a stinging rebuke, worthy of his mighty gravitas and intellectual stature, " LOL" saith Professor Sanford

I stand corrected.

Squinting at degraded internet reproductions of multi generational copies of 60 year photos, spotting an " anomaly " that kinda sorta looks funny or is beyond the bounds of your limited photographic comprehension and claiming this is unimpeachable proof of nefarious alterations, is NOT in fact a bumbling amateurish embarrassment.

It's a perfectly respectable scientific discipline, you say?

Gotcha!!

The whole fucking thread is descending into a grim farce, DOUBLE HEADED BILLY LOVELADYS and the return of the absolutely risible Doorway Man " theory"

Here's a conundrum for the eminent Professor to ponder upon and wrap his Newtonian intellect around..

Which one of the Billy Lovelady's foreheads underwent subsequent Loveladification in the mobile photo alteration truck?

Talk about false equivalence!!

We're being chided for indulging in " double think" for raising what I think are perfectly reasonable questions about an image, a recently emerged image, which admittedly underwent various filtering and other modern digital photography techniques ( if I am misinformed or misinterpreting or fucking up the technical terminology my apologies, and I would be much obliged if someone knowledgeable would help me out).

Apparently this is the same as claiming to have PROVED, that various nefarious alterations were performed- by unknown persons in unknown destinations, aside from mobile forgery trucks, using techniques not yet invented.

Alterations such as swapping heads, body parts, adding and subtracting onlookers like some psychotic Count Von Count from Sesame Street. Claiming travelling mattes were used to fake home movies etc etc. Ad nauseam.

Incidentally I see the fragrant Ms O Hara has re emerged. Spreading more stinking manure and offal. Attempting, in a manner of speaking, to Skorzeny ify the history, not only of the assassination but of German Fallschirmjager operations in WW2.

All whilst operating under a phoney name

It's actually quite fortunate most of these characters don't seem to possess a single atom of self awareness...

Blundering around, peering haughtily down at the hobbledehoys who lack the intelligence to grasp their paradigm busting theories, speaking in lofty terms of love, hate and other such terminal delusions, whilst trying to appear effortlessly erudite, fluttering by like a double headed Billy Lovelady butterfly, for, as all good doppelgangerists know: two heads ( and two brains) are better than one..

While all the time a crumpled deeply soiled copy of Razzle Readers Wifes Naughty 40s BumpaBoobies Bonanza is clearly visible, peeking out from amidst the covers of the Principa Mathematica, they clutch tightly to their learned breasts ( feeling just like Sarah Stanton, Stuck Inside of a Dallas Doorway with the No Tits Blues Again)

Armstrong hab erbernann

Fri 03 Nov 2023, 11:29 am

John Cotter @ the Lasen Institute of Authoritarian Revisionists (LIAR) wrote:Meanwhile over at ROKC, I see that Greg Parker is fulminating like mad against Alan Ford and me over the sanctity of how what even his own crowd have acknowledged is a “fuzzy picture” should be interpreted.

He doesn’t seem to understand the logic of the post by me which he quoted.

Oops. No John, it is you who fails to understand what the term "more than a fuzzy picture" means - at least here in this forum.

It indicates that the fuzzy picture is just a piece of evidence that one day may support the mountain of documentary evidence regarding Oswald's alibi and movements. My point was that Mr. Ford does not buy into the "just a fuzzy picture" line. If he did, he would not have made the comments he did about the so-called "scoop neck".

In any case, it appears that to you and Mr. Ford, the "more" part of the phrase does not refer to a plethora of documentary evidence... it refers to... yet more fuzzy pictures, fuzzy logic, and some pretty imaginative theorizing.

Meanwhile, your inability or unwillingness to address the substance of what I said... is noted.

We both know why Mr. Ford did not bring his quark, strangeness and charm to this forum where acceptance of a post depends on little things like evidentiary support, internal logic and etc., but chose instead to spread his gospel among the gullible rubes frequenting the EF, ever eager to pile speculation onto speculation onto photo interpretation in some bizarre hodgepodge of pareidolia, Rorschach, and Jeopardy.

The EF does occasionally have some decent threads.

Exhibit A https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29795-gochenaur-on-hosty/

Unfortunately it will sink through a lack of sexiness and Pythonesque scenarios.

But back to Mr. Ford. What do you suppose he will do with this research? Will he attempt to get the films that will support or destroy the theories, or is he just spinning wheels?

Never mind. Rhetorical question.

You guys can claim victory soon. My forum had a purpose outside of the parlor games. It fell short of achieving that purpose and I am frankly worn out and fed up. The tent is going to be packed away. I will finish a couple of projects offline after that.

Just think of the possibilities with this place no longer calling out the arrant stupidity. Hallelujah, Brother Cotter. Break out the rotgut and the paint thinners!

Fri 03 Nov 2023, 1:13 pm

Alan \"I Spy" Ford @ Larsen's Incubating Atrium of Rabblerousers (LIAR) wrote:'Prayer Man is more than a fuzzy picture, ok? Also, if you refuse to bow down to our fuzzy picture we will denounce you as an infidel'

The Kamp frame episode, and the reality-denying extended tantrum we're seeing now, remind me of the anguish Mr. Brian Doyle went through after he himself posted a picture of Mrs. Sarah Stanton disproving his own theory that she was Prayer Man. Poor man still hasn't recovered...........

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2796-exposing-the-alan-ford-fraud#43279

Sat 04 Nov 2023, 9:49 am

John Cotter wrote:Greg Parker has replied to this at ROKC.

Contrary to what he says, I know what he means by “more than a fuzzy picture” and I agree with it.

Okay. We are on the same page there, then.

The problem is that while ROKCers say they’re not 100% certain Prayer Man is Oswald, some of them behave as if they are, as evidenced by the vehemence and illogicality with which they attack any hypothesis, such as Alan Ford’s, that a fuzzy figure in the TSBD doorway other than Prayer Man might be Oswald.

I thought I made it clear I was only speaking for myself. Don't fall for that "cult" bullshit. We do not speak as one. That said, I am not aware of anyone here who claims it is Oswald with 100% certainty.

His "research" goes way beyond looking for another candidate as Oswald on the steps. That is the source of the flak. As others have more eloquently put it, he is going to make this another area for the media to laugh at.

And as shown here https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2796-exposing-the-alan-ford-fraud#43287 he is using the name of an incompetent, but cunning spy from a parody comic book printed in Italy. The man is a fraud. @sandylarsen needs to put on his mod hat and take some action - and not just on him but also hat other fraud pushing a fraudulent daybook.

GP says I’ll be celebrating if he fails in his mission to have the JFKA case reopened. This is a quite perverse claim to make for someone who talks a lot about the importance of evidence, since I never suggested anything of the kind.

You cannot support a fraud and claim to be on the right side of the argument.

I wouldn’t have emailed the FBI repeatedly this year about how the testimony of railroad workers recorded by Mark Lane constituted irrefutable proof of conspiracy if I didn’t want the case reopened. GP seems to have not noticed my mentioning this in this forum.

Without being critical here, because an effort is an effort - and that is 100% to be encouraged, not sure why you would pick that as the thing to push. The FBI would be well aware of everything said and done by Mark Lane.

Everything isn’t a zero-sum game.

That is very similar to saying everything is not black or white - there are innumerable shades of gray. Yet I have never seen any indication from you that you acknowledge nuance or shades of gray. You can be extremely dogmatic and resistant to ideas outside your personal beliefs. Not just resistant, but anything from dismissive to hostile.

Nor do I recall having ever seen you admit error - though I should add I do not read everything you post. Possibly not even half of it since I do not follow posters as much as I do areas of research.

Anyway. You have been warned. You and others over there are sleeping with a dog at the moment. And it is riddled with fleas.

Sat 04 Nov 2023, 7:27 pm

As we approach the 60th anniversary here are the top three trending topics in JFK Land.

Ford's nutty theories
The Lafitte Datebook
Landis's new claims

Quite a choice for the media to pick on.

Sun 05 Nov 2023, 12:11 am

John Cotter wrote:Despite the desperate well-poisoning (for the want of a rational alternative) in your respect by self-appointed archons of the JFKA cannibalistic “research community”,

How the fuck did you know about that branch of the family tree?

Like Buffy St Marie, I claim some Cree heritage. Unlike Buffy, mine is genuine. The father of my grandmother on my father's side was a half Cree Indian, half French Canadian engineer who came out here to work in the mines.

As I understand it, the French and English decimated hunting stocks for the fur trade. Leaving the Cree a simple choice Go vegan or cannibal. Wanna guess what they chose?

Just like "Mr. Ford" is decimating what little credibility stocks this community still has.

The Chianti is at the ready. Fuck the fava beans.

(My father's father on the other hand, was the grandson of a convict sent out for stealing some cloth. I maintain it was a stitch-up)

I can’t help being impressed by the clarity of your reasoning combined with your inimitable (by the aforementioned community’s standards at least) ability to illustrate your reasoning with very effective pictorial representations.

Now you're talking! I can say now honestly that we have something in common!

As a toddler, I was just as impressed by this muppet's ability to turn some squiggles into a dynamic and imaginative scenario!

I think one of us must have become emotionally stunted, taking that sense of awe into adulthood. I envy you.

Mon 06 Nov 2023, 10:47 am

greg_parker wrote:

John Cotter wrote:Despite the desperate well-poisoning (for the want of a rational alternative) in your respect by self-appointed archons of the JFKA cannibalistic “research community”,

How the fuck did you know about that branch of the family tree?

Like Buffy St Marie, I claim some Cree heritage. Unlike Buffy, mine is genuine. The father of my grandmother on my father's side was a half Cree Indian, half French Canadian engineer who came out here to work in the mines.

As I understand it, the French and English decimated hunting stocks for the fur trade. Leaving the Cree a simple choice Go vegan or cannibal. Wanna guess what they chose?

Just like "Mr. Ford" is decimating what little credibility stocks this community still has.

The Chianti is at the ready. Fuck the fava beans.

(My father's father on the other hand, was the grandson of a convict sent out for stealing some cloth. I maintain it was a stitch-up)

I can’t help being impressed by the clarity of your reasoning combined with your inimitable (by the aforementioned community’s standards at least) ability to illustrate your reasoning with very effective pictorial representations.

Now you're talking! I can say now honestly that we have something in common!

As a toddler, I was just as impressed by this muppet's ability to turn some squiggles into a dynamic and imaginative scenario!

I think one of us must have become emotionally stunted, taking that sense of awe into adulthood. I envy you.

I just noticed -- Mr Squiggles head is not aligned with his body and looks completely UNNATURAL!

I think we need an Italian Spoof Cartoon Spy on the case!

Mon 06 Nov 2023, 11:09 am

The consternation expressed by some ROKCers over the damage allegedly caused to the JFKA “research community” by Alan Ford’s heretical exposition is laughable.

If the MSM were bothered to search for material which they could use to discredit the aforementioned community, they need look no further than the mudslinging and personal attacks constantly emanating from ROKC, which unfortunately has largely overshadowed the constructive contribution of ROKC to the JFKA debate.

This is what happens when you enter a discussion without utilizing humor, logic or facts. You fall flat on your face.

Modern journalists scour the internet, particularly forums, blogs and social media, looking for story leads. I know this for a fact because I have been contacted by journalists through my various websites over the years - on JFK stories, but more often on non JFK stories I have blogged about (understandable since the journalists have with few exceptions, been here in Aus). But you don't need personal experience of it to know it happens every day. You just need to be a consumer of news.

And as far as using ROKC as an example of how loony the JFK community is.... FFS. Why would they use US as Mr. Bad Example when it is US pointing out the loonies and their loony theories and showing WHY they are loony????? Does it appear to you that we have vastly different ideas to the media about what is loony in this community and what isn't?

The lampooning may have overshadowed the research for you.... but that is because the lampooning tears down many ed Forum and conspiratocracy Shibboleths. It hits too close to your bones. The research here on ROKC and elsewhere done by ROKCers, is and will continue, to be used by others for many decades to come.

Mon 06 Nov 2023, 11:34 am

greg_parker wrote:

The consternation expressed by some ROKCers over the damage allegedly caused to the JFKA “research community” by Alan Ford’s heretical exposition is laughable.

If the MSM were bothered to search for material which they could use to discredit the aforementioned community, they need look no further than the mudslinging and personal attacks constantly emanating from ROKC, which unfortunately has largely overshadowed the constructive contribution of ROKC to the JFKA debate.

This is what happens when you enter a discussion without utilizing humor, logic or facts. You fall flat on your face.

Modern journalists scour the internet, particularly forums, blogs and social media, looking for story leads. I know this for a fact because I have been contacted by journalists through my various websites over the years - on JFK stories, but more often on non JFK stories I have blogged about (understandable since the journalists have with few exceptions, been here in Aus). But you don't need personal experience of it to know it happens every day. You just need to be a consumer of news.

And as far as using ROKC as an example of how loony the JFK community is.... FFS. Why would they use US as Mr. Bad Example when it is US pointing out the loonies and their loony theories and showing WHY they are loony????? Does it appear to you that we have vastly different ideas to the media about what is loony in this community and what isn't?

The lampooning may have overshadowed the research for you.... but that is because the lampooning tears down many ed Forum and conspiratocracy Shibboleths. It hits too close to your bones. The research here on ROKC and elsewhere done by ROKCers, is and will continue, to be used by others for many decades to come.

Prayer Man with a rounded collar.

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