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Randle & Frazier Contradictions

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Albert Rossi on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 11:35 am

Lee Farley wrote:
Albert Rossi wrote:P.S. Lee:  Happy New Year.  The ball doesn't drop here in Chicagoland yet for another six hours.

Well to give you a preview, 2014 feels much the same as 2013.

But here's hoping that the end of 2014 sees the Bears in the playoffs!

And the Cubs in the Series ...

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Albert Rossi on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 11:39 am

Lee Farley wrote:
Albert Rossi wrote:
Lee Farley wrote:
Albert Rossi wrote:
Lee:  just to spell it out for us plodding ones: the first part of your post is suggesting then that Bledsoe's call to the police was received by Olsen.

Not exactly, Albert.  I entertain the possibility that Olsen was "guarding" Bledsoe's house.
 
OMG.  The "estate".  Was Oswald the butler?

That's right, Albert, the "estate" - that Olsen in a later interview called a "ramshackle house"

The "estate" that he couldn't remember the address of, who owned it, or who asked him to guard it.  Even though he could remember that the other police officer who asked him to guard it was in the Presidential motorcade.  Later that evening Olsen would go and meet with Jack Ruby for a number of hours.

I think you have smelled a rat, all right.

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Colin Crow on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 11:47 am

Lee Farley wrote:
Albert Rossi wrote:
Lee Farley wrote:
Albert Rossi wrote:
Lee:  just to spell it out for us plodding ones: the first part of your post is suggesting then that Bledsoe's call to the police was received by Olsen.

Not exactly, Albert.  I entertain the possibility that Olsen was "guarding" Bledsoe's house.
 
OMG.  The "estate".  Was Oswald the butler?

That's right, Albert, the "estate" - that Olsen in a later interview called a "ramshackle house"

The "estate" that he couldn't remember the address of, who owned it, or who asked him to guard it.  Even though he could remember that the other police officer who asked him to guard it was in the Presidential motorcade.  Later that evening Olsen would go and meet with Jack Ruby for a number of hours.

Harry Olsen is up to this to  his eyeballs. His injury caused by none other than Jack Ruby. Gimme a break.

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by greg parker on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 12:45 pm

Colin Crow wrote:My read on this is that he originally contracted gonorrhoea. This is caused by a species of the gram negative Neiserria. They saw gram negative cocci on the primary smear around the 16th and prescribed penicillin. A few days later although some improvement, he acquired a secondary infection with gram positive staph aureus (golden staph). They changed antibiotic to chloramphenicol as the golden staph was likely penicillin resistant. He also was prescribed an analgesic to relieve the pain and frequency of urination.

He did not have syphillis. Greg is right, they will normally go with best guess for treatment. To wait for positive confirmation by the lab would take a couple of days.

The interesting thing is the penicillin powder. Oral administration of penicillin is relatively new. He had intramuscular injection of about 1 million units, this is normal for someone with severe indection. The IM route is better and the powder is dissolved just prior to injection. The powder he had could not be administered by himself without syringe. If he swallowed it the acid in the stomach would have neutralized it.

Colin, thanks for the clarifications and additional info. I agree that the possession of Pentids 400 powder is a bit puzzling.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Stan Dane on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 1:42 pm

Ever since I read Albert Rossi's and Ed Ledoux's posts early today I've had Ruth Paine on the brain. I don't think I'll need penicillin for that. Maybe just a bowl of Quaker Oats.
 


2013 has about four hours to go here. Calling it a year!


Last edited by Stan Dane on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I forgot to credit Albert here. A posting while drinking thing. But hell, it's New Years!)

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 6:35 pm

Your killing me Stan!!! Good thing I was not consuming fluids when I saw that or I'd be buying a new monitor!

Sea Bag Free since '63
 Very Happy

Happy New Years All!~Ed

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 6:50 pm

I was saving this interview with Harry Olsen for my upcoming book review, but since Olsen is being discussed here, I thought I'd post it:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/Turner%20William%20Weyand%20Garrison%20File/Item%2005.pdf

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by greg parker on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 7:10 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Your killing me Stan!!! Good thing I was not consuming fluids when I saw that or I'd be buying a new monitor!

Sea Bag Free since '63
 Very Happy

Happy New Years All!~Ed
Same to you, Ed and everyone here. It is going to be a good year... if Stan doesn't kill us all, that is.  sunny 


_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by John Mooney on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 10:09 pm

As regards the paper bag, I always wondered why anyone would go to the trouble of making one when the rifle was already tied up in a blanket, ready to go.

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Albert Rossi on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 10:25 pm

Hasan Yusuf wrote:I was saving this interview with Harry Olsen for my upcoming book review, but since Olsen is being discussed here, I thought I'd post it:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/Turner%20William%20Weyand%20Garrison%20File/Item%2005.pdf

Interesting, Hasan.  So how much credibility do you give him in his statements to Turner?

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by greg parker on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 10:39 pm

John Mooney wrote:As regards the paper bag, I always wondered why anyone would go to the trouble of making one when the rifle was already tied up in a blanket, ready to go.
John,

a fair bit of what was put together as the assassination narrative has a genesis in past deeds. Some involving Oswald - some not. 

The paper bag is no different. Sorry to leave it that, but that's all I want to say for now except that off the top, the bag, the BY photo and the Texas Theater meet and greet all have precedents. Someone not only knew Oswald's history, but other interesting nuggets from history as well.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Guest on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 10:50 pm

Once again here the only photograph taken of the LHO belongings seized through search warrant from 1026 North Beckley on the afternoon of 11/22/63:



And here is a typed list of those items that begins to add certain letters and papers not actually seen in the photograph.  Letters, passports, papers that would link directly to his left-wing agitation and his alleged trip to Mexico City:





Finally, here is the official list of items taken from 1026 North Beckley:








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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Guest on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 4:37 am

The all black ensemble he wore for the BYP is also missing. Was that ever accounted for?

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Martin Hay on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 5:09 am

Can anyone point me to Frazier's HSCA interview? Is it online?


I'm looking for the exchange about the lock on his car door being broken.

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Guest on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 5:23 am

Martin Hay wrote:Can anyone point me to Frazier's HSCA interview? Is it online?
I can't post it cause I am a new member here and not allowed but its on this site Martin. Google Frazier HSCA Richard Gilbride.

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by John Mooney on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 5:36 am

greg parker wrote:
John Mooney wrote:As regards the paper bag, I always wondered why anyone would go to the trouble of making one when the rifle was already tied up in a blanket, ready to go.
John,

a fair bit of what was put together as the assassination narrative has a genesis in past deeds. Some involving Oswald - some not. 

The paper bag is no different. Sorry to leave it that, but that's all I want to say for now except that off the top, the bag, the BY photo and the Texas Theater meet and greet all have precedents. Someone not only knew Oswald's history, but other interesting nuggets from history as well.

I know about the paper bag through the post.

It just makes no sense for Oswald to go to all that trouble.

Curtain rods in a paper bag or curtain rods in a blanket.. who would care?

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by greg parker on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 5:51 am

John Mooney wrote:
greg parker wrote:
John Mooney wrote:As regards the paper bag, I always wondered why anyone would go to the trouble of making one when the rifle was already tied up in a blanket, ready to go.
John,

a fair bit of what was put together as the assassination narrative has a genesis in past deeds. Some involving Oswald - some not. 

The paper bag is no different. Sorry to leave it that, but that's all I want to say for now except that off the top, the bag, the BY photo and the Texas Theater meet and greet all have precedents. Someone not only knew Oswald's history, but other interesting nuggets from history as well.

I know about the paper bag through the post.

It just makes no sense for Oswald to go to all that trouble.

Curtain rods in a paper bag or curtain rods in a blanket.. who would care?
John, sorry to be cryptic, but I wasn't talking about the paper bag in the post. There is a specific instance of a similar method of weapon covered for transport that I'm referring to.

I don't think anyone would care -- but for whatever reason, the three things I mentioned all have precedent - and I can't see that as coincidence - two of three specifically with Oswald and the other with a case known to Oswald. Someone had very specific intelligence on our man in setting him up.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Martin Hay on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 5:56 am

Paul Klein wrote:
Martin Hay wrote:Can anyone point me to Frazier's HSCA interview? Is it online?
I can't post it cause I am a new member here and not allowed but its on this site Martin. Google Frazier HSCA Richard Gilbride.


It's ok, I found it. Thanks anyway, Paul.

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Colin Crow on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 9:54 am

greg parker wrote:
John Mooney wrote:
greg parker wrote:
John Mooney wrote:As regards the paper bag, I always wondered why anyone would go to the trouble of making one when the rifle was already tied up in a blanket, ready to go.
John,

a fair bit of what was put together as the assassination narrative has a genesis in past deeds. Some involving Oswald - some not. 

The paper bag is no different. Sorry to leave it that, but that's all I want to say for now except that off the top, the bag, the BY photo and the Texas Theater meet and greet all have precedents. Someone not only knew Oswald's history, but other interesting nuggets from history as well.

I know about the paper bag through the post.

It just makes no sense for Oswald to go to all that trouble.

Curtain rods in a paper bag or curtain rods in a blanket.. who would care?
John, sorry to be cryptic, but I wasn't talking about the paper bag in the post. There is a specific instance of a similar method of weapon covered for transport that I'm referring to.

I don't think anyone would care -- but for whatever reason, the three things I mentioned all have precedent - and I can't see that as coincidence - two of three specifically with Oswald and the other with a case known to Oswald. Someone had very specific intelligence on our man in setting him up.
He has supposedly transported the rifle successfully wrapped in his marine rain coat. Apparently on a bus without provoking suspicion.

On the morning of the assassination it was raining. Why not simply cover the "curtain rods" in the raincoat. Why risk the disassembled rifle falling out the bottom of a soggy paper bag on the long walk to the TSBD?

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by greg parker on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 10:17 am

Colin Crow wrote:He has supposedly transported the rifle successfully wrapped in his marine rain coat. Apparently on a bus without provoking suspicion.

On the morning of the assassination it was raining. Why not simply cover the "curtain rods" in the raincoat. Why risk the disassembled rifle falling out the bottom of a soggy paper bag on the long walk to the TSBD?
A bag was found so they went with that.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Guest on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 10:33 am

Good thinking, Colin, and a remarkably simple observation that has never crossed my mind.

Of course it was raining that morning, and who in their right mind would attempt to transport an eight pound disassembled Carcano in a paper bag?

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Colin Crow on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 11:10 am

Traveller11 wrote:Good thinking, Colin, and a remarkably simple observation that has never crossed my mind.

Of course it was raining that morning, and who in their right mind would attempt to transport an eight pound disassembled Carcano in a paper bag?


Apparently someone who would go to the trouble of making a bag that doesn't fit the assembled rifle. Then disassembles it in order to transport it using the inappropriate bag.  I think the raincoat was stored in the garage from memory. Frazier commented it was still drizzling on the way to the TSBD that morning. Gotta hope heavy rain doesn't set in on that long walk to the building.

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by Guest on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 3:04 pm

Colin Crow wrote:
Traveller11 wrote:Good thinking, Colin, and a remarkably simple observation that has never crossed my mind.

Of course it was raining that morning, and who in their right mind would attempt to transport an eight pound disassembled Carcano in a paper bag?


Apparently someone who would go to the trouble of making a bag that doesn't fit the assembled rifle. Then disassembles it in order to transport it using the inappropriate bag.  I think the raincoat was stored in the garage from memory. Frazier commented it was still drizzling on the way to the TSBD that morning. Gotta hope heavy rain doesn't set in on that long walk to the building.

I keep thinking of the trigger and the front sight sticking out from the barrel. These would have a good chance of poking a hole through a bag even without it being rain soaked.

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by dwdunn(akaDan) on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 5:27 pm

Colin Crow wrote:
Traveller11 wrote:Good thinking, Colin, and a remarkably simple observation that has never crossed my mind.

Of course it was raining that morning, and who in their right mind would attempt to transport an eight pound disassembled Carcano in a paper bag?


Apparently someone who would go to the trouble of making a bag that doesn't fit the assembled rifle. Then disassembles it in order to transport it using the inappropriate bag.  I think the raincoat was stored in the garage from memory. Frazier commented it was still drizzling on the way to the TSBD that morning. Gotta hope heavy rain doesn't set in on that long walk to the building.
But if you kept really really good maintenance on such a fine rifle (viz., oiling) and you also made a really really good paper bag to carry it in, then let the damn rain just try and stop us.

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

Post by ianlloyd on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 6:55 pm

Colin Crow wrote:
Traveller11 wrote:Good thinking, Colin, and a remarkably simple observation that has never crossed my mind.

Of course it was raining that morning, and who in their right mind would attempt to transport an eight pound disassembled Carcano in a paper bag?


Apparently someone who would go to the trouble of making a bag that doesn't fit the assembled rifle. Then disassembles it in order to transport it using the inappropriate bag.  I think the raincoat was stored in the garage from memory. Frazier commented it was still drizzling on the way to the TSBD that morning. Gotta hope heavy rain doesn't set in on that long walk to the building.
This thread looks like it may be going off topic now...

The ad in American Rifleman and the rifle purportedly ordered by Oswald was a 36" rifle. The bag was 38" long, therefore, the advertised rifle would have fitted inside the bag without recourse to disassembling it. Was the bag "manufactured" based on the information in the advertisement?

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Re: Randle & Frazier Contradictions

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