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hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

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hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by greg parker on Sat 09 Aug 2014, 9:55 am

I posted this to a forum for retired military personnel the other day but have had no response:


Hi all, 


I am looking for some help on a question. I note that the Kennedy assassination is occasionally raised here, so some of you may already be aware that Oswald's USMC records indicate he was 5' 11" when he entered the Marines - yet the historical Oswald was known to be 5' 9" (shown next to height chart after New Orleans arrest and measured at autopsy). 


This is used by some as evidence that it was a "double" who entered the Marines and went to the Soviet Union. 


Before I drink that kool Aid, I would like to be able to see if there are other, more likely explanations. 


Can anyone help? 


thanks, 
Greg 


--------------------------


Randy Gunter has stated that the 5' 11" measurement would have been made at induction through MEPS. I have no reason to doubt that, but there has to be a rational explanation without recourse to doppelgangers. 

This is all I can come up with. It shows differences in height between morning and evening of up to 2.8 cms (1 and 7/64")  (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1545095/?page=1

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by gerrrycam on Sat 09 Aug 2014, 2:15 pm

Oswald's enlistment papers record his vital statistics as 5 feet 8 inches (1.73 meters) in height, 135 pounds (61 kg) in weight, with hazel eyes and brown hair
^ Jump up to: a b Sanders, Bob Ray (25 November 2013). "A Monday of funerals, and learning a bit more about the man who killed Kennedy". Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Retrieved 25 November 2013.

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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by dwdunn(akaDan) on Sat 09 Aug 2014, 3:03 pm

greg parker wrote:I posted this to a forum for retired military personnel the other day but have had no response:

Hi all,

I am looking for some help on a question. I note that the Kennedy assassination is occasionally raised here, so some of you may already be aware that Oswald's USMC records indicate he was 5' 11" when he entered the Marines - yet the historical Oswald was known to be 5' 9" (shown next to height chart after New Orleans arrest and measured at autopsy).

This is used by some as evidence that it was a "double" who entered the Marines and went to the Soviet Union.

Before I drink that kool Aid, I would like to be able to see if there are other, more likely explanations.

Can anyone help?


thanks, 
Greg

--------------------------

Randy Gunter has stated that the 5' 11" measurement would have been made at induction through MEPS. I have no reason to doubt that, but there has to be a rational explanation without recourse to doppelgangers.

This is all I can come up with. It shows differences in height between morning and evening of up to 2.8 cms (1 and 7/64")  (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1545095/?page=1
I suppose one relevant point would be that military induction procedures aren't the most reliably precise indicators of information about a person, including a vital statistic like height. It's more like herding cattle through a gate.

When I was a little boy for a while I had to wear corrective plastic arch-supports in sad-looking brown shoes; never understood what that was all about. When I went into the Army there were about two dozen of us going through our physical exam, the very last part of which was standing on height-weight scales and being asked by the physician about identifying marks and so on. Out of the corner of my eye I could then see the doctor looking me over top to bottom; when he looked down at my feet, he stopped, let out a "pfff" and smirked as he marked his clipboard with a flourish of a gesture on his last little checkmark. I was good to go, and later realized this must've meant he recognized at the very end of this long procedure that I had flat feet. (at which point he apparently thought, "fuck it")

The point being that if a recruit is among a whole bunch of others being examined for military entry, an examiner going through the motions of writing down numerous physical statistics isn't exactly doing mathematical equations to determine the precise trajectory for sending a probe to impact a comet. Or caring a whole hell of a lot about whether the kid is trying to "stretch" himself to appear taller, or about whether he'd got the right placement for the height measuring "fin." Unfortunately, this is one of the more relevant points on this issue that I can think of but its' too speculative to be of much use in debates with people who are largely irrational anyway  You're one-eyed

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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by greg parker on Sat 09 Aug 2014, 3:27 pm

Thanks guys. I should have taken my own advice and looked into it instead of accepting the BS being fed to me. I naively believed that not even Armstrong and his supporters would lie about what was in something as simple as an enlistment record.

Here is where they get their 5' 11" from



a faked military card. The flip side is that the actual recorded height (as given by Jerry) could now be claimed to belong to "Harvey". The purveyors of this theory need to be tarred and feathered and run out of Tombstone.

Oswald's height is listed as 5' 11" on every document where he was not required to be measured. IOW, he was simply in the habit of adding a couple of inches to his height whenever he thought he could get away with it. On the other hand, every document which lists his MEASURED height, he is shown to be at least 2" shorter.

Randy's assurance that the 5' 11" came from measurements done at MEPS was just more horseshit conjured from thin air.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by Guest on Sat 09 Aug 2014, 7:29 pm

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2544&p=271154
,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,
(quote)http://www.jfk-info.com/pjm-1.htm
Priscilla and Lee:
Before and After the Assassination

by Peter R. Whitmey

....She did admit to Slawson and Mosk that she had "thought about him ... as recently as 3 weeks before the assassination." Why she happened to think about him at that particular time did not seem to be of any interest to Slawson; nor was he concerned by the fact that Johnson now recalled Oswald being "little," as opposed to the "six-footer" described in her 1959 report.(127) Why had that description been changed to "a nice young man" in the revised version;(128) and why was his height, weight and eye/hair color not included in the State Department summary of December 5, 1963? No such questions were put to her..... (end quote) .....
For the record, I am not in the Lee, Harvey and 2X Marguerite camp. I see resolving this as not a path of least resistance. The other side cannot be influenced. The record the government has created,
neglected to create, muddied is not helpful.

Greg, I agree that Oswald took the opportunity whenever he could to maintain a 71" height record.
Did he influence recruit intake personnel to confirm this height stat, or was it just luck or did the military-intelligence-complex effect that stat on his record? Was Priscilla shown a dossier on Oswald
before her 1959 interview?


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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by greg parker on Sat 09 Aug 2014, 10:48 pm

Tom,

for the record, I don't believe Miss Prissy interviewed Oswald. The story was a fabrication. Oswald's presence was not required. Nor was anyone else's.   

Regarding his height... are you saying the above card was not a fake, or that his height was recorded in the USMC somewhere as being 5' 11"?

His height was recorded as 5' 11" 

on the above card
on both passports
on his Albert Schweitzer application.

If, as I believe, the card was forged, then on every occasion it shows up as 5' 11", it was Oswald self-reporting/recording his height.

He was listed as 5' 8" or 5' 9" on every document that required an actual measurement be made.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by Terry W. Martin on Sun 10 Aug 2014, 12:53 am

greg parker wrote:Tom,

for the record, I don't believe Miss Prissy interviewed Oswald. The story was a fabrication. Oswald's presence was not required. Nor was anyone else's.   

Regarding his height... are you saying the above card was not a fake, or that his height was recorded in the USMC somewhere as being 5' 11"?

His height was recorded as 5' 11" 

on the above card
on both passports
on his Albert Schweitzer application.

If, as I believe, the card was forged, then on every occasion it shows up as 5' 11", it was Oswald self-reporting/recording his height.

He was listed as 5' 8" or 5' 9" on every document that required an actual measurement be made.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

Some people like to round up things like that. Perhaps he had measured himself once with boots on or something and stuck to that measurement.

Taller always seems to be "better". Even in Hollywood, they will have some actors stand on boxes for certain shots so they can have the image of height. Sad state of affairs, huh? Heroes have all got to be tall for some reason as if that's the only way we can "look up to them".

Too bad no one ever told Gene Autry that little trick. He was always shorter than the bad guys he beat and often even shorter than the damsels he won.

Perhaps Ozzie just "felt" taller than he was.

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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by Guest on Mon 11 Aug 2014, 12:20 pm

Good Work Greg. Indeed the Oswald crafted height would explain why it does not correlate with actual measurements. 

It still does not reasonably follow that some would attribute a second man rather than a mistake of a couple inches or possible forgery in my view. Unfortunately some cannot critically refine their ideas and double down on bad information. We can all make mistakes, however those embracing unproven speculation as fact are just another obstacle to progress.

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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Tue 12 Aug 2014, 8:28 am

terlin wrote:
greg parker wrote:Tom,

for the record, I don't believe Miss Prissy interviewed Oswald. The story was a fabrication. Oswald's presence was not required. Nor was anyone else's.   

Regarding his height... are you saying the above card was not a fake, or that his height was recorded in the USMC somewhere as being 5' 11"?

His height was recorded as 5' 11" 

on the above card
on both passports
on his Albert Schweitzer application.

If, as I believe, the card was forged, then on every occasion it shows up as 5' 11", it was Oswald self-reporting/recording his height.

He was listed as 5' 8" or 5' 9" on every document that required an actual measurement be made.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

Some people like to round up things like that. Perhaps he had measured himself once with boots on or something and stuck to that measurement.

Taller always seems to be "better". Even in Hollywood, they will have some actors stand on boxes for certain shots so they can have the image of height. Sad state of affairs, huh? Heroes have all got to be tall for some reason as if that's the only way we can "look up to them".

Too bad no one ever told Gene Autry that little trick. He was always shorter than the bad guys he beat and often even shorter than the damsels he won.

Perhaps Ozzie just "felt" taller than he was.
I was thinking the same thing, Terry. I remember reading an article about the NBA embellishing their height measurements for their players by having them measured while wearing shoes which added about 2 inches or more depending on the brand.

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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by greg parker on Tue 12 Aug 2014, 8:36 am

Paul Klein2 wrote:
terlin wrote:
greg parker wrote:Tom,

for the record, I don't believe Miss Prissy interviewed Oswald. The story was a fabrication. Oswald's presence was not required. Nor was anyone else's.   

Regarding his height... are you saying the above card was not a fake, or that his height was recorded in the USMC somewhere as being 5' 11"?

His height was recorded as 5' 11" 

on the above card
on both passports
on his Albert Schweitzer application.

If, as I believe, the card was forged, then on every occasion it shows up as 5' 11", it was Oswald self-reporting/recording his height.

He was listed as 5' 8" or 5' 9" on every document that required an actual measurement be made.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

Some people like to round up things like that. Perhaps he had measured himself once with boots on or something and stuck to that measurement.

Taller always seems to be "better". Even in Hollywood, they will have some actors stand on boxes for certain shots so they can have the image of height. Sad state of affairs, huh? Heroes have all got to be tall for some reason as if that's the only way we can "look up to them".

Too bad no one ever told Gene Autry that little trick. He was always shorter than the bad guys he beat and often even shorter than the damsels he won.

Perhaps Ozzie just "felt" taller than he was.
I was thinking the same thing, Terry. I remember reading an article about the NBA embellishing their height measurements for their players by having them measured while wearing shoes which added about 2 inches or more depending on the brand.
It's just the pits that these clowns are using the two different heights as further "proof" of their doppelganger claims. If they had an official record showing his MEASURED height as 5' 11", they might have actually had something.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Tue 12 Aug 2014, 8:44 am

greg parker wrote:
Paul Klein2 wrote:
terlin wrote:
greg parker wrote:Tom,

for the record, I don't believe Miss Prissy interviewed Oswald. The story was a fabrication. Oswald's presence was not required. Nor was anyone else's.   

Regarding his height... are you saying the above card was not a fake, or that his height was recorded in the USMC somewhere as being 5' 11"?

His height was recorded as 5' 11" 

on the above card
on both passports
on his Albert Schweitzer application.

If, as I believe, the card was forged, then on every occasion it shows up as 5' 11", it was Oswald self-reporting/recording his height.

He was listed as 5' 8" or 5' 9" on every document that required an actual measurement be made.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

Some people like to round up things like that. Perhaps he had measured himself once with boots on or something and stuck to that measurement.

Taller always seems to be "better". Even in Hollywood, they will have some actors stand on boxes for certain shots so they can have the image of height. Sad state of affairs, huh? Heroes have all got to be tall for some reason as if that's the only way we can "look up to them".

Too bad no one ever told Gene Autry that little trick. He was always shorter than the bad guys he beat and often even shorter than the damsels he won.

Perhaps Ozzie just "felt" taller than he was.
I was thinking the same thing, Terry. I remember reading an article about the NBA embellishing their height measurements for their players by having them measured while wearing shoes which added about 2 inches or more depending on the brand.
It's just the pits that these clowns are using the two different heights as further "proof" of their doppelganger claims. If they had an official record showing his MEASURED height as 5' 11", they might have actually had something.
They'll never consider a discussion like the one we are having here, Greg. They wouldn't dare bring one up for fear that it would crumble their theory.
Like you said. They're brain dead zombie culties.

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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by steely dan on Wed 13 Aug 2014, 1:58 am

Carmine Savastano wrote:Good Work Greg. Indeed the Oswald crafted height would explain why it does not correlate with actual measurements. 

It still does not reasonably follow that some would attribute a second man rather than a mistake of a couple inches or possible forgery in my view. Unfortunately some cannot critically refine their ideas and double down on bad information. We can all make mistakes, however those embracing unproven speculation as fact are just another obstacle to progress.

Good work from you Carmine. With 55 carefully chosen words, you have pointed out the absudity of a 1000 page book.

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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by Guest on Wed 13 Aug 2014, 5:51 pm

Stan,

          Thanks.

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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

Post by Stan Dane on Thu 14 Aug 2014, 4:00 pm

Carmine Savastano wrote:Stan,

          Thanks.
I'd love to take the thanks but it belongs to my fellow Musketeer steely dan. (We do look somewhat alike.)

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Re: hopefully it's a question I should have asked here first

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