Roll Call Remedy

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Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1106







Each name was called off for warehouse employees and Lee Oswald was absent.



After this Report by R. W. Westphal, Ganaway claimed that this was the reason for the broadcast description ...really No Name and Address but a vague description was broadcast even though, as Ganaway admits, this was due to Lee not being at this roll call.
Really!?!

Well if you had a name why not broadcast it with a description.
Why?
Because DPD had no such roll call, no such idea whom was missing, or what the 'missing' persons name was.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1156950


Wesley Frazier described the roll call in detail and how he heard Lee's name but figured Lee had already left.
Wesley claims a roll call happened.
Was Wes at that roll call?
We know Wesley's name was missing from this roll call sheet with 55 names, although his sister made the cut for a while till being crossed off.
Did he give his sisters name? Hmm He doesn't look like a Linnie Mae.
Wesley said he was there and he did hear Lee's name called out. Did he hear Lee's name called out first and wander around trying to find his friend?
What should we believe about Wes and his roll call recollections?
Why is his name not on that roll call sheet if he was there?



It is claimed that 33 warehouse workers were associated with the Elm Street location that day.
CE 1381 includes the names and a quick statement of 73 persons whom worked in the TSBD on 11/22
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf



Some problems with a roll call from the outset., even the list the DPD provides only 55 names.
Roy "Ray" Lewis and Terrence "Lawrence" Ford are added twice. So only 53 names on the list.
And Terry Ford did not work there but was a news stringer whom got inside with Allman.


Or that is Terry's story and Pierce is helping him out here, because Pierce Allman's name is not on the list  and Terrance Fords is listed differently twice. So either his name was written down wrong or misheard one of the times he was allowed to leave.
And he wasn't with Allman or Allman's name would be there with his pals.
excuse was he had to run out and back in for some reason... and Allman slipped out undetected? Or to get out undocumented all you needed was press credentials...?

So that is 52 Names

We know this is a 11/22 roll call list because it has WPAA's Terrence Ford's name.
He was trapped with reporters
Pierce Allman,  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tsR8PGx2ZE&feature=youtu.be  
MUST WATCH AND LISTEN TO VIDEO!! Besides the ducking and slumping!

Here Allman gives his movements

But on the second shot, I glanced up, my gaze stopped one floor below on the depository building, I saw the three guys looking out of the window, looking up. And I went back to the scene on the street and it was pretty obvious Kennedy had been hit. And, as the car drove off, a uniformed policeman came over and said, 'Everybody down.' On about the second shot, we all got down and of course popped back up as the car sped off. As the car sped off, that's when the Secret Service man from the back had vaulted over and pushed Jackie back in the seat, she was trying to come up, and that's when the body assumed that grotesque position we saw on the way to Parkland. Then I ran across the street, spoke to the Newmans and said, 'Stop!' And why we were running that direction, I couldn't tell you. It was just sort of a flow. I stopped and said, 'Are you ok?' He said, 'Yeah, but they got the president. They blew the side of his head in.' I remember thinking, 'I've got to get to a telephone.' But we continued up the little hill there -- I won't say 'knoll' -- the little hill...

Bill: That's all right.

Pierce Allman: And Bob Jackson from the Times-Herald was running behind me. And why we went up there, I don't know, except there was just sort of a movement up there. And then I turned around, ran back down the hill, ran up the sidewalk, went into the depository building, asked the guy where the phone was,went inside, got on the phone, called the station, and had trouble getting through. By the time I got through, said here's what happened, I was more concerned about the implications of what to say. I was fairly sure that...first of all, he was hit. You can't go on air and say the president's been killed. You don't know that. So you can't do that. And I realized you just can't do this. You can't go on the air and say the leader of the free world has just been cut down, you know, in Dallas, during the noonday parade. So I [don't] remember exactly. I heard the tape later, saying that he was hit. Witnesses reported he was hit, slumped forward, you know, and more later. Put the phone down, ran upstairs, then realized, whoop, need the phone, went back down, actually hung up one time, and then realized what I had done, and called back and said, 'Just leave the line open, strap on a tape.' A little later, they did bring, they brought Oswald...they brought the rifle down. A distinct impression: and that was, while I was on the phone, no one ever challenged me. No one ever said, 'Who are you? Who are you calling?' And no one took charge. See, at the time, what you really had was a local homicide. It wasn't against federal law to kill a president. But no one took charge. Lot of uniforms milling around, a lot of plainclothesmen milling around. No one ever said, 'Stop! Hit the wall!,' you know.... Nobody. So it was just this constant milling around. Finally, sometime later, you got back to the station before I did (nodding towards the Newmans) because it was sometime later when a gray-haired guy in a gray suit said [he wanted] to know who I was and what I was doing. And I identified myself and he suggested I wrap it up. I identified him later as Army intelligence. They said that was inaccurate, he might have been CIA or Secret Service, more likely. And when I tried to leave the building I couldn't because it was cordoned off. So I had to stay inside for a while. And when I went outside, [I saw] clusters of people around transistor radios, and I realized what was happening.... I was really concerned, he was not pronounced dead until after.... In fact I didn't know he had been pronounced dead until I got back to the station, walked into the door,


Also trapped inside was Kent Biffle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqXOWMU4_3E

Biffle is not on the list..... So again how is Terry Ford listed? Why and why twice is he let out?
Because the cops had no suspect from the TSBD.

We know some employees like Givens were not allowed back in to be counted. Truly knew this from his answers to WC counsel about Givens.



How would such an roll call help locate an employee whom was just located by Truly, ie Oswald. So how can he be missing, eg Givens.

How about Danny Arce, he did not 'return' to the TSBD, he was taken in the car with others to city hall.
Was he included in the list?
Didn't both Givens and Arce miss the 'Roll Call'?
When did Truly know Danny was outside and then taken in by DPD?
Can't be as quick as he called for Lee's address!!



What does a roll call do for the DPD? Was it the DPD asking for this or was this a impromptu idea of Truly's?



Was a general TSBD building employee list made and also a warehouse list?



How was the other list generated? Were APB's sent out for missing publishers? Secretaries and temps arrested?  
Was Jack Cason hauled in? Not likely.
Only warehouse workers are implicated somehow, yet like a union shop they decided the new guys, the temps take the axe for the rest with seniority? Shit really does flow down hill in this situation.



A list of all those in the building I can see as useful to the authorities. It is evidentiary.
A list of all those whom work in or have access whould be equal in evidentiary value.
Having a roll call usually folks know ahead of time that you are wanting to be counted.
Documenting a gathering, not so useful.
Gathering then documenting, very useful!



So...Was the roll call real?



Lets see what Roy Truly has to say.



Mr. Ball. Now, what did you tell Chief Lumpkin when you came down from the roof of the building?



Mr. Truly. When I noticed this boy was missing, I told Chief Lumpkin that "We have a man here that's missing." I said, "It my not mean anything, but he isn't here." I first called down to the other warehouse and had Mr. Akin pull the application of the boy so I could get--quickly get his address in Irving and his general description, so I could be more accurate than I would be.



Mr. Ball. Was he the only man missing?



Mr. Truly. The only one I noticed at that time. Now, I think there was one or two more, possibly Charles Givens, but I had seen him out in front walking up the street just before the firing of the gun.



Mr. Ball. Did you make a check of your employees afterwards?



Mr. Truly. No, no; not complete. No, I just saw the group of the employees over there on the floor and I noticed this boy wasn't with them.



Oh..........

Not exactly a roll call, just a group waiting around to see if work was to continue. Nothing about a check list or reading off names. He had just seen Lee less than 5 minutes ago in the lunch room. Did he or anyone check the luchroom? And why was Givens given a pass as Roy said he saw him on the street before the gun shots. But he saw Lee in a Lunchroom moments after the shots.

Mr. GIVENS. So I stood there for a while, and I went over to try to get to the building after they found out the shots came from there, and when I went over to try to get back in the officer at the door wouldn't let me in.

Mr. Belin. Did you tell him you worked there?

Mr. Givens. Yes; but he still wouldn't let me in. He told me he wouldn't let no one in.


I think they did let people back in but as the films show it was spotty, and seems Billy Lovelady was out front for quite sometime, hence his addition to the roll call in pen at the bottom?

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=171624



Lets continue with Roy's recollections.



Mr. Truly. When I got back to the first floor, at first I didn't see anything except officers running around, reporters in the place. There was a regular madhouse.



Mr. Belin. Had they sealed off the building yet, do you know?



Mr. Truly. I am sure they had.



Mr. Belin. Then what?



Mr. Truly. Then in a few minutes--it could have been moments or minutes at a time like that--I noticed some of my boys were over in the west corner of the shipping department, and there were several officers over there taking their names and addresses, and so forth.





Is Truly confusing several officers taking down names and addresses by the front steps/entrance? Or actually the Front West corner of the shipping floor?

Mr. Ball. Did you make a check of your employees afterwards?

Mr. Truly. No, no; not complete. No, I just saw the group of the employees over there on the floor and I noticed this boy wasn't with them.



Whom else was missed?

Mr. TRULY. No. When I came down from the second floor---from the seventh floor with the officer, I thought I saw Jack Dougherty on the fifth floor, which he would have had plenty of time to move the elevator down and up and get some stock and come back.

Mr. TRULY. Yes. When coming down I am sure I saw Jack Dougherty getting some books off the fifth floor. Now, this is so dim in my mind that I could be making a mistake.

So the dim recollection that he had seen Jack far outweighs in his mind that Lee was missing and suspicious.
Jack winds up as a late addition to the list, his name in pen added with Jarman, Lovelady and Truly at the bottom of the roll call list sheet.
Jack was on a much higher floor than Lee.
Jack was not eating his lunch at lunch time. Lee was in a lunch room.
Jack was vaguely remembered by Roy, yet Lee was vividly recalled being stopped by an officer at gun point in the lunchroom.
Jack never was at the roll call as Jack was trying to find Roy.
Jack would be on six when the rifle is found and Roy never sees a rifle till it is taken out the front door.
Jack thinks Roy was on fourth floor. But does not find him.
So Jack was not around, dim memory of Roy seeing him, seeing him on an upper floor....yet Lee Oswald is stuck in Truly's head... Oy Vey!!

Mr. Truly. Then we continued on down, and we saw officers on the fourth floor. I don't recall that we stopped any more until we reached the first floor. But I do recall there was an officer on the fourth floor, by the time we got down that far.

Mr. Belin. All right. And then you got down eventually to the first floor?

Mr. Truly. That is right.

Mr. Belin. About how long after these shots do you think it took you to go all the way up and look around the roof and come all the way down again?

Mr. Truly. Oh, we might have been gone between 5 and 10 minutes. It is hard to say.

Mr. Belin. What did you do when you got back to the first floor, or what did you see?

Mr. Truly. When I got back to the first floor, at first I didn't see anything except officers running around, reporters in the place. There was a regular madhouse.

Mr. Belin. Had they sealed off the building yet, do you know?

Mr. Truly. I am sure they had.

Mr. Belin. Then what?

Mr. Truly. Then in a few minutes--it could have been moments or minutes at a time like that--I noticed some of my boys were over in the west corner of the shipping department, and there were several officers over there taking their names and addresses, and so forth.


Mr. TRULY. No. When I came down from the second floor---from the seventh floor with the officer, I thought I saw Jack Dougherty on the fifth floor, which he would have had plenty of time to move the elevator down and up and get some stock and come back.

Truly will now see the officers taking names in different areas of the building. not just in the West corner. Would take some real compilation of lists to get one name out of 33, or 73.
So with some hesitation Truly asks Otis and then calls for a address and description on the missing boy Lee Oswald. No checking these lists, just a hunch!

Mr. Truly. There were other officers in other parts of the building taking other employees, like office people's names. I noticed that Lee Oswald was not among these boys.

So I picked up the telephone and called Mr. Aiken down at the other warehouse who keeps our application blanks. Back up there.

First I mentioned to Mr. Campbell--I asked Bill Shelley if he had seen him, he looked around and said no.

Mr. BELIN. When you asked Bill Shelley if he had seen whom?

Mr. TRULY. Lee Oswald. I said, "Have you seen him around lately," and he said no.

So Mr. Campbell is standing there, and I said, "I have a boy over here missing. I don't know whether to report it or not." Because I had another one or two out then. I didn't know whether they were all there or not. He said, "What do you think"? And I got to thinking. He said, "Well, we better do it anyway." It was so quick after that.

So I picked the phone up then and called Mr. Aiken, at the warehouse, and got the boy's name and general description and telephone number and address at Irving.

Mr. BELIN. Did you ask for the name and addresses of any other employees who might have been missing?

Mr. TRULY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Why didn't you ask for any other employees?

Mr. TRULY. That is the only one that I could be certain right then was missing.

HOW WAS ROY TRULY SO CERTAIN AND CERTAIN SO QUICKLY THAT LEE WAS NOT IN THE BUILDING UNLESS HE SAW HIM LEAVE OR KNEW FROM ANOTHER THAT LEE LEFT, AND WAS NOT SOMEWHERE IN A SEVEN STORY BUILDING?
AMAZING, BEFORE THE RIFLE OR ANY EVIDENCE IS FOUND ROY KNOWS WHOM TO FINGER!!


March 14, 2015 at 11:55 AM

From Jack White's Escape.doc


That last sentence, is a serious contradiction. If you have seen him just before your suspicions should not be aroused by that. You actually would focus more on people who were not there, like Givens.......
Truly doesn't stop to amaze me with his bollox.


12/7/63            Dallas - Back at the Book Depository, manager [R. S] Truly began taking inventory of his employees.  Several were missing - outside among the crowd, he supposed.  Still, he went to a policeman and told him Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't there.  He described the 24-year-old stock clerk.
 

"Frankly, I don't know why I singled him out," Truly said.  "Perhaps because I had seen him shortly before."  AP, 9:39 p.m. CST, Jules Loh

Here is the problem with Truly,


Mr. TRULY related that within fifteen minutes after the shots were fired at President KENNEDY, there were numerous people all over the TSBD building, and he did not know any of them. He assumed that many of them were law enforcement officers, although they were not in uniform. A number of uniformed officers of the Dallas Police Department were making a systematic search of the building and were guarding the doors to the building. [Front doors] About thirty minutes after the shots were fired, Mr. TRULY was on the sixth floor of this building, and any number of newspaper, radio and television reporters, and photographers were on that floor. . . . spectators and others not connected with any law enforcement agency or news media, were wandering around the TSBD building the afternoon following the assassination. [A60]

[A60]. FBI SA Robert Gemberling’s report as cited in Weisberg, Whitewash II, 35-36.

There are no wandering strangers or spectators trapped in the TSBD per the ROLL CALL sheets.
So Truly is not supported by the evidence.

Problem is the TSBD, once identified as the suspect location of shots on police radio, is basically swooped down on..
giving little time for these wandering hoards to escape.

but apparently it only takes two minutes to escape the TSBD 

Piper was the porter.
So would be packing books or doing his Porter-ly duties
emptying waste baskets shining shoes or whatever it was he was kept on to do.

But here we see him going home before any lineup or it seems word that there is no more work that day


Mr. BALL. Did you at anytime after the shooting miss Lee Oswald---did you notice he wasn't around?
Mr. PIPER. No, sir; I didn't notice it until the lineup. You know, I just figured all the people was there.
Mr. BALL. You did notice it at the lineup, did you?
Mr. PIPER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Tell us about that.
Mr. PIPER. I did notice it in the lineup.
Mr. BALL. What do you mean by the lineup?
Mr. PIPER. I mean, when they lined us all up and told us to give our name and address and just to go home.
Mr. BALL. You say "they"; who do you mean?
Mr. PIPER. The detective---whoever it was.
Mr. BALL. The police?
Mr. PIPER. Yes; they had the building all surrounded. They went to locking the doors back and front and told us to all come up and then go home, and I told him, I says, "I've got to go down in the basement and get my clothes," and he said, "You can go down and get your clothes and come on back up here, but give me your identification and your name and tell us where you are staying," and everybody heard me say that, I guess, and he let us out of the building, one by one, and I went on out the front door.

Mr. PIPER. No, sir; I didn't mention it but I knows he wasn't in the lineup, and Charles---I don't know whether he was, but he went out for lunch.
Mr. BALL. Was Charles Givens there?
Mr. PIPER. I couldn't remember seeing him. He went out for lunch and I don't remember whether he come out from the building again or not because I was getting dressed to get out of there myself.
Mr. BALL. That's all.
Mr. PIPER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


BOOM! Why was Eddie getting dressed to go home, in the basement, and not aware of any lineup?

Oh man Ball cut him off after he said he was "GETTING DRESSED TO GET OUT OF THERE MYSELF."

Who else was there in the basement?
Buell was in the basement with his, lunch, clothes, etc. too.... well well

Cheers, Ed

From Jim Marrs' Crossfire. p314
RIP Jim, your book is one of the reasons why I got into this!


This was confirmed in 1981 by Dallas Morning News reporter Kent Biffie, who recalled that day in a lengthy article based on his notes of that day. Biffle wrote:
. . . only two of us [reporters] had arrived at the ambush building [ the Depository] by this point. . . . Getting in was no problem. I just hid my press badge . . . and went in with the first wave of cops. . . . Hours dragged by. The building superintendent showed up with some papers in his hand. 1 listened as he told detectives about Lee Oswald failing to show up at a roll call. My impression is that there was an earlier roll call that had been inconclusive because several employees were missing. I his time, however all were accounted for except Oswald. 1 jotted down the Oswald information. . . . Neither the police in the building nor the superintendent knew that Oswald already was under arrest.

This whole story of Truly going up to Fritz with Oz's name is bollox!!!!

2nd source, Jim Leavelle n Texs Monthly Nov 1998

One of the interviewees was Detective Jim Leavelle. During the conversation, he had this to say, ”I talked to him, yeah, about 10, maybe 15 minutes one-on-one before Captain Fritz and the other officers came back from the book depository, preparatory to going look for him, and found out he was already there. When the Captain came in and asked me what his name was, and I told him, he asked me where he worked, and he said the book depository, he said, 'You're the one I want to talk to.'





so until he said where he worked Fritz drew a blank

Truly is bollox from the start.
His true and unedited statements are being withheld

What addresses and info did Kent jot down, its been a while...?

I need to find the article

Though that list of employees is dated 11/22/63, in Westphal's interview with Larry Sneed in No More Silence, he talks about going home, and then returning to his office at the Fairgrounds to write up his report of a man at the Trade Mart with a “Free Cuba” flag. So, I'm not sure what time of the evening that list was actually typed up. While he was writing his Report, Captain Gannaway called and asked him to check the names of the TSBD employees against the Department's Intelligence files. Westphal said, “We had handwritten, partial lists; some of them, you couldn't read the names”.

a sloppy job we are led to believe.

no ID was necessary to leave as Roy Truly could verify you're an employee to Kaminski.
Cheers, Ed

According to Frazier's HSCA testimony, Bill Shelley did the roll call. Tape 2 08:45.

Betty Dragoo, part of the group of women in front of the entrance, as seen in Wiegman. 
Never made it back inside either. Someone else brought down her coat and bag!
http://www.prayer-man.com/tsbd/betty-dragoo/

Bart we know Frazier is not correct, we have other evidence that says Truly decided if you were okay to leave.
Shelley did not take a roll call of employees for the police or Truly.

We can work on all that as another release.

The list with Lee at the top giving an Elsbeth address, as its the only ID with an address he had in his wallet, is a clue to his being stopped by the cops at the front steps and being asked to step aside till they can get the details fits perfectly with Lee leading that list.
Second floor was verboten. All these tall tales involve the forbidden fruit.

Truth is Lee was on first floor.
And stepped out to watch the President's Parade.

No lunchroom encounter took place.
What does Bill Kelly whom clung to it like a life raft have to say now.

Ed. Ledoux wrote:No lunchroom encounter took place.
What does Bill Kelly whom clung to it like a life raft have to say now.

Kelly lost all credibility with me long ago. He stubbornly clings to his cherished beliefs, damn any facts to the contrary. 

It's people like Kelly who have helped keep this case in a state of chaos for so many years. It's people like Kelly who gave rise to the saying "We have met the enemy and he is us."

A great help with the case... Yeah Bill hasn't got a dog in the hunt anymore.
If he would just admit his ignorance got the better of him...