Identify HAT BADGE MAN (HBM) and his "nurse" friend

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106



Here is the Man - Badge mystery I want to solve.



Hat Badge Man:
Who Is He?
What does his uniform represent?
Who is the woman with him?




Frames from Mark Bell film.





Back story and images:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17707


As you can see by the vintage Dallas police photo I found showed that they used the hat badge at one time in the past but went to newer style HB's. So does this mean we have an old DPD hat badge being worn on a 'superiors' hat (white, w/gold piping, black band and visor) worn by a man leaving Dealey Plaza wearing what appears to be a police style rain slicker,



Who or what is HBM?



I do not believe HBM is Badge Man. And Badge Man is unrelated to HBM.

Badge Man may be a ruse to lead the 'open minded' to Tippit shooting JFK through overdosing on to many pixels and over colorization, something akin to blob squatches.


Moving along,
Are there any statements by individuals or couples we could not match to anyone before?

Any references to any odd officials in DP that day?



Thanks and Cheers! ~Ed



--



“Is everything a conspiracy? No. Only the important stuff.” Jeff Wells, Rigorous Intuition



PM is THE litmus test of intellectual integrity for researching this case.
Those who fall back on the fuxxy picture defense are not of a caliber to understand the ins-and-outs of this case. ~ Terry Martin




December 13, 2014 at 7:02 AM

Richard Hocking
Member
Posts: 89

Hi Ed,

This ID may be a tough one. There were numerous Police in White Hats w/Badge in Dealey Plaza that day. From a glance in my photo folders, Inspector Sawyer was wearing one. There are several guys on the TSBD steps that likewise have the white hat with the badge, including Patrolmen Smith and Barnett who were stationed at the door. Patrolman Marvin Wise was wearing a Black hat with a badge on it. Most photos are in B&W so I cannot see the braid color. If you go through the William Allen photos you will see several Officers with the White hat.

If we could see stripes or insignia on Hat Badge Man, that might help to narrow the choices down. My first guess at the female ID would be as a possible witness on Elm St ...

Will look more over the next few days.
December 13, 2014 at 5:07 PM

Paul Francisco Paso
Administrator
Posts: 729

Someone on the EF thread mentioned something about a nurse. That was my first impression when I saw the woman with HBM. She looks to be in a nurse's uniform.



December 13, 2014 at 9:26 PM

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

Yeah I honestly believe I went through the color photos of cops with hats and the gold piping/braid was a odd addition that I don't recall policemen of any rank have such combinination,,, but before we even get started with hats!
That hat badge was not the same as DPD or any other department in Dealey Plaza wore.
Thanks for delving in there!
Question remains whom had Gold Braid/Piping on a black headband and black visor on a white hat with the old style hat badge? That is IF that hat badge is a police dept. badge.
We don't know, could be an security, or guard badge.
Was there talk about a private guard or someone locking the gate/operating the gate for the tsbd parking lot even though the 'sherrifs dept.' ran it?
Private guard for any number of companies or lots around there likely used old uniforms till they no longer fooled anyone.
~
Besides nurse, candy striper, or medical student are possible occupations for her too.
Thx Ed
December 15, 2014 at 8:13 AM

Richard Hocking
Member
Posts: 89

Was thinking about this topic last night, and something jogged in my memory that may or may not be relevant.

Part of the issue (beside the unusual hat color/badge/braid configuration) is these two figures leaving the assassination scene so quickly.

I was trying to focus on the first witness/suspects that were detained. The very first one that came to mind was Roger Craig going into the rail yard parking lot and immediately apprehending a woman who was attempting to leave the lot in a 1962-63 Chevy. Going from memory, but I believe Craig estimated she was in her early 30's. She was arrested and turned over to Dallas Sheriff Criminal Investigator C. Lummie Lewis.

Lummie Lewis was in the group of Sheriff's deputies that were standing in front of the County Courts Building and ran straight across the plaza to the Rail Yards after hearing the shots. Lummie stopped and and talked to TSBD employees Holt, Jacob and Simmons (a topic for a future post right there) before Craig turned the Chevy lady over to him. If Lewis took her straight back to the Sheriff's office, the timing is very close to the sequence that Ed is referencing in the Bell film. Lewis could very well be re-tracing his way back to the office using the same route he took to get to the rail yard/Grassy Knoll area.

Lummie Lewis would have been 53 years old in 1963. I have no pictures of him. If someone else is has any picture ...

BTW, I have found no record of this woman giving a statement or being detained. Craig did not recall her name.

Just a hunch at this point, but I thought I would throw it into the mix here and see if anyone could add to it (or from it as the case may be).
December 15, 2014 at 4:57 PM

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

Nearly what we are looking for Richard!!!
Yet since Lummie was in the Sheriff's Dept. I don't think we'll find him in a white Peaked cap.
NOTE: There were two C L Lewis's in Sheriff Dept.
One Clint or Clinton L. Lewis the other "LUMMIE" or Columbus Lummie Lewis.
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lewis_c.htm
--



“Is everything a conspiracy? No. Only the important stuff.” Jeff Wells, Rigorous Intuition



PM is THE litmus test of intellectual integrity for researching this case.
Those who fall back on the fuxxy picture defense are not of a caliber to understand the ins-and-outs of this case. ~ Terry Martin




December 16, 2014 at 3:13 AM

Tom Graves
Member
Posts: 18


Columbus Lummie Lewis had been an Army sergeant and a country western recording artist before he became a law enforcement officer in Dallas. The name of his band was "Lummie Lewis and His Merrymakers." They recorded an album in June of 1937, and he is pictured (somewhere) on the front of the album cover. He was 27 years old at the time. (Never mind the name "Jimmie Rogers" on the alblum -- Rogers died in 1937.)

So, which one of the three guys pictured on the alblum cover looks like he was 27 years old at the time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjpqDYNBRAEhttp://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=82487052


http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=82487052


https://books.google.com/books?id=2usUpwMgx3gC&pg=PA500&lpg=PA500&dq=%22lummie+lewis%22&source=bl&ots=RNuUHuIkob&sig=Q1sQYkgGqtTzvrxE-zIIukvyDjQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB0Q6AEwADgKahUKEwjr79qWlvPHAhXFzYAKHRoICE4#v=onepage&q=%22lummie%20lewis%22&f=false


--Tommy
September 13, 2015 at 1:08 AM

Tom Graves
Member
Posts: 18

Columbus Lummie Lewis was born in Seagoville, Dallas County, Texas on March 4, 1910, and died in Dallas on March 2, 1978.
September 13, 2015 at 1:20 AM

Tom Graves
Member
Posts: 18

Check that. The people on the album cover are probably relatives of the famous Jimmie Rogers. Lummie Lewis and His Merrymakers recorded only one track in the compilation. Darn.
--

Tommy :sun
September 13, 2015 at 1:41 AM

Andy A.
Member
Posts: 56

Could this guy be Lummie Lewis?


1.On the knoll with Roger Craig in Allen's 'Hammerman' photo. Just right of the retaining wall.

Note: this is Craig in light pants (see Martin footage of Craig), not the guy in the street in Murray's 'Hammerman' photo that precedes this. 'Murray guy' is sometimes ID'd as Craig, but has dark pants and is larger. Both are looking at the Rambler though.



2. Listening to Brehm, now wearing a blue raincoat.



3. In front of TSBD with Craig a few minutes later.



Not sure if the guy on the knoll with Craig is the same person as in 2&3, but looks about right.



I'm only assuming this is Lewis based on Craig's story. He sure looks like a "Lummie".









September 13, 2015 at 7:53 PM

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

Glad you ask, 1 is not same as 2-3.
2-3 are of an older guy in a slicker is likely of no importance, one of the crowd gathered listening to Brehm.
But 1 has the ear of what may be someone alone.
1 has light pants, dark suit coat, dark colored hat possible glasses.

September 13, 2015 at 10:09 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Tom Graves
Member
Posts: 18

Andy A. at September 13, 2015 at 7:53 PM

Could this guy be Lummie Lewis?


1.On the knoll with Roger Craig in Allen's 'Hammerman' photo. Just right of the retaining wall.

Note: this is Craig in light pants (see Martin footage of Craig), not the guy in the street in Murray's 'Hammerman' photo that precedes this. 'Murray guy' is sometimes ID'd as Craig, but has dark pants and is larger. Both are looking at the Rambler though.



2. Listening to Brehm, now wearing a blue raincoat.



3. In front of TSBD with Craig a few minutes later.



Not sure if the guy on the knoll with Craig is the same person as in 2&3, but looks about right.



I'm only assuming this is Lewis based on Craig's story. He sure looks like a "Lummie".


[source: imgur.com]

[source: imgur.com]


[source: imgur.com]




Columbus Lummie Lewis was born March 4, 1910.

Does this guy look 53 years old?

The clothes work for me because he was a Dallas Sheriff's Department Criminal Investigator.

BTW I think 1 is the same as 3. You can barely make out his glasses in the first photo.


--Tommy



September 14, 2015 at 1:04 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Tom Graves
Member
Posts: 18

PS Great work, Andy.

Also, upon further inspection, I think the guy in photo # 2 is the same as in photo # 1 and photo # 3. You can see his glasses frame behind his right ear in photo # 2, and his windbreaker in both.

--Tommy
September 14, 2015 at 1:20 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Andy A.
Member
Posts: 56

Thanks, Tom. I think it's Lewis also.

While you're here, I believed you were wondering about the guy in Couch who appears to be getting an escort down the knoll. The person below (see Cook) is my best guess.



Make the usual allowances for image size/quality, lighting etc. Cook guy seems to be getting stopped from proceeding further into the rail yards. Perhaps an unknown witness to shenanigans behind the fence? I might also suggest a safe/extraction zone north of the trains, protected by complicit suits n' DPD. But I digress...


Back to Hat Badge Man, I have no idea who he is, but I'll keep an eye out. He certainly comes intimidatingly close to Bell. We also see HBM and his companion heading towards Elm in L'Hoste as the tail-end of the motorcade passes.(Prior to the Bell footage, obviously).



Sorry for the crap frame, they are second & third from the left. The guy on the far-right sure looks like Tony Varona. Gah! Digressing again...


September 14, 2015 at 5:08 PM

Tom Graves
Member
Posts: 18

Andy,


It looks like Hat Badge Man and Nurse Woman are walking a circuitous route. First away from the Grassy Knoll, then towards it. I wonder if they rendezvoused with DCM aka (Tosh Plumlee's) "Gator" or "Gato" ? And / or with Tony Varona there on the grass.


--Tommy



September 14, 2015 at 5:20 PM

Andy A.
Member
Posts: 56

Tom,

My bad. L'Hoste first (moving towards Elm as motorcade ends) then Bell (moving back towards Main as civilian cars move down Elm).

Re: DCM - I'm a Felipe Vidal Santiago man, myself. Hargraves just about said as much in his last interview w/ Noel Twyman. And didn't Hemming name his son 'Felipe'? And didn't Hemming - holding a bound and hooded Huk tribesman (Landsdale's wheelhouse) - turn up in the second roll of film from Oswald's camera that Weberman recently paid to have developed? And didn't Hemming not mention this to Weberman, Burnham or any other researchers while still alive?


I'm still on the fence about Pumlee. Why abort at all when Kennedy's agenda showed no signs of swinging right? Unless this was some crazy next-level plot to ensure deniability ("Hey, we tried to stop it") should Dealey Plaza go pear-shaped.


But, yeah we see an exodus of interesting characters moving south across the infield at this point. I'll put something together when I'm done with another group of seriously interesting characters first seen near the SW corner of Main & Houston ('Varona', for one).


This all relates to Hat Badge Man somehow ...
September 14, 2015 at 7:03 PM

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

Yes Andy that is them HBM and the 'nurse'.


This makes them less suspicious as they would be heading to the knoll, but for some reason they turn and head back across the infield.

I had thought they were Bruce Ray Carlin and Karen Carlin when I first saw them, but never was able to make that stick. Just a wild stab.


December 1, 2015 at 11:17 AM

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106


This was Carlin's address, he said he rented the garage apt. for 4 -6 weeks or so. left, then re-rented it with Karen till Jan.64 both lived in the tiny apt.
www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/.../HSCA_Vol9_5G_Chronologies.pdf (see March 1963)
Weldon L Thomas owned it, Weldon was never interviewed.

3809 Meadowbrook DrFort Worth, TX 76103
Single-Family Home
3 bed, 2 baths, 2,012 sqft, detached garage 240 sqft

Weldon L Thomas (817) 535-895x

December 1, 2015 at 12:37 PM

Jake
Moderator
Posts: 402

In Bell HBM's right hand goes up to his mouth and he holds it there. No sign of a cough. No sign of a cigarette. Just looks like a cop on his radio. Wait a minute, what radio? The one under his coat with a microphone wire through the sleeve? Nah. (Maybe calling in about the guy taking film?)
December 1, 2015 at 10:55 PM

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
Member
Posts: 273

  Tom Graves at September 14, 2015 at 1:04 AM

  Andy A. at September 13, 2015 at 7:53 PM

   Could this guy be Lummie Lewis?


1.On the knoll with Roger Craig in Allen's 'Hammerman' photo. Just right of the retaining wall.

       Note: this is Craig in light pants (see Martin footage of Craig), not the guy in the street in Murray's 'Hammerman' photo that precedes this. 'Murray guy' is sometimes ID'd as Craig, but has dark pants and is larger. Both are looking at the Rambler though.

2. Listening to Brehm, now wearing a blue raincoat.
3. In front of TSBD with Craig a few minutes later.

Not sure if the guy on the knoll with Craig is the same person as in 2&3, but looks about right.

I'm only assuming this is Lewis based on Craig's story. He sure looks like a "Lummie".








   Columbus Lummie Lewis was born March 4, 1910.
   Does this guy look 53 years old?
   The clothes work for me because he was a Dallas Sheriff's Department Criminal Investigator.
   BTW   I think 1 is the same as 3.  You can barely make out his glasses in the first photo.
   --Tommy  



I'm not sure about 1 and 2 but #3 is definitely Lummie Lewis. (The woman just behind him is Mary Woodward, btw). #2 is likely him - he has on a shiny windbreaker and the hat matches. I have another photo of him i just recently got from Denis Morrisette after he posted it on his FB JFK photo page... give me a minute to upload it and post it.
Here it is - ca. 1974.  Lummie Lewis is on the rt side in the wild jacket. Bo Mabra to the rt of him:



December 15, 2015 at 9:39 AM  

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

Cool old pic, Jones has one wild shirt too. '74 was a textilers dream

2&3 are of the same scene, or man, but nothing shows me it is CL. ....yet. Where is that other pic?

December 16, 2015 at 5:11 AM  

Vanessa
Member
Posts: 330

Unusual sort of tie he's wearing with a square end. I didn't think those came in until the 80's. Looks like a logo on the tie too. Maybe a bird and something?

December 16, 2015 at 5:21 AM

Interesting Vanessa, perhaps a David Harold "Byrd"

Hunt for HBM continues!!

Whom is your guess for these plaza persons non grata  ("person not appreciated",)