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Was Craig Rogered?

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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 8:20 am

Redfern wrote:I find it hard to believe that Craig would have lied about Oswald's words in his Warren testimony. What could he gain by doing so?

All it would have taken was for him to popped his head through the door for ten or fifteen seconds.

The FBI report is very brief. It really concerned only Craig's identification of Oswald leaving Dealey Plaza.

He wouldn't have known who Ruth Paine was at that point.


Roger Craig was the one law enforcement officer prepared to stick his neck out.

These are my thoughts also. The FBI report merely summarises the ID of Oswald. It may have been wise on the part of the FBI to omit any pesky details about what he heard Oswald say. The fact is he said it all during his WC testimony. We can accuse him of lying but if we do we have also ask WTF for. He spent another 4 years in DPD after that.
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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by greg parker on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 8:48 am

Paul Francisco Paso wrote:
Redfern wrote:I find it hard to believe that Craig would have lied about Oswald's words in his Warren testimony. What could he gain by doing so?

All it would have taken was for him to popped his head through the door for ten or fifteen seconds.

The FBI report is very brief. It really concerned only Craig's identification of Oswald leaving Dealey Plaza.

He wouldn't have known who Ruth Paine was at that point.


Roger Craig was the one law enforcement officer prepared to stick his neck out.

These are my thoughts also. The FBI report merely summarises the ID of Oswald. It may have been wise on the part of the FBI to omit any pesky details about what he heard Oswald say. The fact is he said it all during his WC testimony. We can accuse him of lying but if we do we have also ask WTF for. He spent another 4 years in DPD after that.
Those are the very reasons why I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out I was wrong.

But 17 years at this has taught me to err on the side of caution.  As far as I can tell, he said nothing of Oswald saying anything until his WC testimony. The wording in that first report to me, is also indicative of viewing someone through a window or glass panel rather than up close and personal. "given an opportunity to observe Lee Harvey Oswald

As to the WTF for,, Maybe to be helpful to the side he thought was right (the critics)? Or maybe to potentially bring fame and/or fortune?  Oswald was no longer around so it was his word vs Fritz. And Fritz was nothing to Craig. He didn't work under Fritz.

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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Mick Purdy on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 11:46 am

greg parker wrote:Colin, I just noticed the FBI interview was done on Nov 22, but typed up the next day.

The difference between Craig and Baker?

On day one, Craig said in a legal document that he observed Oswald in custody and identified him as identical to the person he had observed in DP.

On day one, Baker's affidavit made no such claim about observing Oswald in custody (even though we know he did), nor correctly described or indeed even named him. Baker didn't even get the putative location right.

Another difference: Craig had multiple witnesses confirm his sighting. Baker only had Truly.
Forgive my stupid memory Greg but can you point to the interview which was done on the 22/11/63

I realise your saying it was typed on the 23rd but to save the leg work can you post it cheers Mick



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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by greg parker on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 11:48 am


_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin


The 2017 ROKC Conference tickets and info
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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Mick Purdy on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 11:52 am

greg parker wrote:
Cheers mate.
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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Mick Purdy on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 12:44 pm

It seems he was at least in Fritz's office.

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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by greg parker on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 2:06 pm

Mick Purdy wrote:It seems he was at least in Fritz's office.

Mick, the first photo is not Fritz's office and there are those who claim it's also not Craig and not even Friday - that it's a photo taken on Saturday by Jack Beers. The second photo could be anywhere, anytime and again, may not even be Craig.  Also Oswald is standing so maybe being led down the hallway, or in an elevator?  

I know these photos are floated as proof that Craig told the truth... but we need to be careful to verify everything where possible. The extreme example is Cinque's bizarre photographic claims.

Personally, looking at known pics of Craig, there is a definite similarity but not the same person. Half the problem I think is that in 1963, there was little diversity in hair style or clothing and the obesity epidemic was yet to come, making for a far higher proportion of slim men and women - the overall effect of those things was a similarity of look.

As a kid, an uncle we visited offered to cut my hair. He asked me what style I would like. Little did I understand that he was kidding. I asked for a "square cut" and got chastised for trying to be different.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin


The 2017 ROKC Conference tickets and info
https://www.thenewdisease.space/conference
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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Mick Purdy on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 3:18 pm

I personally think it's Dick York.  Laughing
But that could be my failing eyes.

!00% agree Greg. It looks like him but not the same man imo.

It is an example of certain pics which have made their way into books etc which have been written over the years and published. This particular Photo shows up in "Cover-Up" by Gary Shaw.

I'm certain after reading his FBI statement taken on the 22nd and published on the 23rd is an accurate account of his being in the vicinity of Fritz's office and observing Lee Oswald.

Now that does not mean I agree that he heard the words he later claimed Oswald had said.
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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by greg parker on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 3:35 pm

Mick Purdy wrote:I personally think it's Dick York.  Laughing
But that could be my failing eyes.

!00% agree Greg. It looks like him but not the same man imo.

It is an example of certain pics which have made their way into books etc which have been written over the years and published. This particular Photo shows up in "Cover-Up" by Gary Shaw.

I'm certain after reading his FBI statement taken on the 22nd and published on the 23rd is an accurate account of his being in the vicinity of Fritz's office and observing Lee Oswald.

Now that does not mean I agree that he heard the words he later claimed Oswald had said.
Okay Mick. I think we're on the same page. It's not the interrogation room because there is a female in the photo.

Secretary? Steno? Agnes Moorehead?

Actually that last would explain a lot...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin


The 2017 ROKC Conference tickets and info
https://www.thenewdisease.space/conference
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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 4:27 pm

Mick Purdy wrote:It seems he was at least in Fritz's office.

I'm with Greg. I don't think its him. Looks like him though.
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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Vinny on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 9:26 pm


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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Vinny on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 9:27 pm


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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Mick Purdy on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 11:31 am





Fritz telling us he doesn't remember whom R. Craig is.

The man who came into his "outer" office and informed him that he thought he'd seen the man they had in custody, Oswald leaving the TSBD.

Anyone buying this?

The fact that Fritz even has this version of events down on paper is telling.

That Fritz would remember the story of someone telling him that on Friday afternoon somewhere around 12.45pm they had seen Oswald or someone whom looked exactly like him departing the TSBD is remarkable enough.

But to tell us he let this man tell that story to another officer is unbelievable IMO.

Think about that: 

Fritz is being told the guy in the office is the same guy Craig saw leaving the TSBD.
Really, Fritz is so disinterested in this he sends Craig off to another officer.

This document is taken from several pages which were issued to refute Craigs claims of being in the private office of Fritz when divulging his story.
I have no idea whether Craig was ever present in the "inner" office, whether or not he saw or listened to Oswald in person, but it would appear from the wording in the document by Fritz that there was acknowledgement of Craig seeing Oswald leaving the TSBD.
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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by barto on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 7:07 pm

Cover Up by Gary Shaw with thx to Vinny!







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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by barto on Mon 27 Feb 2017, 8:44 pm

"He left on foot from the building.  Someone said they saw a man pick him up [in a car] but Oswald had a bus transfer slip in his pocket when arrested," Curry said.  AP, 11:17 am CST, Peggy Simpson

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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by barto on Thu 16 Mar 2017, 5:23 pm

Roger Craig's story on the front page of the Ft. Worth Star Telegram Nov 23rd.




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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Steve Thomas on Fri 17 Mar 2017, 6:45 am

Ed. Ledoux wrote:
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
Date 11/23/63
1
ROGER CRAIG,observed an individual run down the grass area from the direction of the Texas School Book Depository. He heard this individual whistle and a white Rambler station wagon, driven by a Negro male, pulled over to the curb and said individual got in and the car headed toward the Dallas-Fort Worth Turnpike. he is positive that OSWALD is identical with the same individual he observed getting into the Rambler station wagon as mentioned above.
Cheers! Ed
In case you're interested, I wrote an essay on a possible Rambler lead.
You can find it here, near the top:

http://myjfksite.weebly.com

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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Mick Purdy on Wed 22 Mar 2017, 10:14 am

And according to Fritz, after being informed by Craig that the man in his office (Oswald) was identical to the man he had seen earlier, Fritz fogged him off to some other officer to take details.

A little odd.
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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Vinny on Thu 23 Mar 2017, 10:32 pm


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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Ray Mitcham on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:42 am

So the Rambler seen by Roger Craig was driven by a dark skinned man, with black hair.

Castro Baile owned a Rambler, was a dark skinned Cuban, and had black hair. And was member of an anti-Castro Group. Rambler had a "Kill Kennedy the Klan" on the bumper. Reg No PD4976. Coincidence?


http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11481&relPageId=214




Can anybody find a connection between "Oswald" and Castro Baile?

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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Steve Thomas on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 4:13 am

Ray Mitcham wrote:So the Rambler seen by Roger Craig was driven by a dark skinned man, with black hair.

Castro Baile owned a Rambler, was a dark skinned Cuban, and had black hair. And was member of an anti-Castro Group. Rambler had a "Kill Kennedy the Klan" on the bumper. Reg No PD4976. Coincidence?


http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11481&relPageId=214




Can anybody find a connection between "Oswald" and Castro Baile?
Ray,

In case you're interested, I once wrote an essay on a possible Rambler lead.
You can find it here, near the top:

http://myjfksite.weebly.com

A lot of it has to do with Raul Castro Baille and Oswald's connection to the house on Harlandale.
As far as the driver of the Rambler, my money is on Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro.

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Re: Was Craig Rogered?

Post by Ray Mitcham on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 7:46 pm

Thanks, Steve. You could well be right.

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