Legal concept "consciousness of guilt"

First topic message reminder :

During trials, prosecutors often cite a legal concept called "consciousness of guilt." When a defendant repeatedly lies about his behavior or orchestrates a cover-up, it suggests he knows he committed crimes. 

Sean R. DeGrilla attempts to paint Lee with this brush, in his book
MALCONTENT: Lee Harvey Oswald's Confession by Conduct.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1733029206/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_2os-Cb3WTC7EA

Wouldn't the application of this legal concept be most applicable to the authorities investigation of the triplicate murders.
Is their malfeasance congruent.
Who was covering up the crime... did not appear to be dead man Lee, if anything he could be accused of aiding authorities from Ruth's cornucopian car park ...if he had done the crime,
but the evidence shows otherwise.
MALIGNED is a far more apt title

Ed

Mr DeGrilla, if your looking for someone to debate can i suggest Brian Doyle. He'll be more than happy to join the FB group.....although he will bring some baggage.
On here, we're far more interested in getting the case reopened. Wheel spinning doesn't make the "to do" list.

Too late Steely..i think Brian's already been and gone..the pink sandalled Pepe LePew strikes again..leaving that unique aroma wafting behind him.
Mr Hess and Mr DeGrillas forum prides it's self on it's standards..like Vlad Tepes insisted on giving each of his victims a fresh newly sharpened stake( that's history Mr DeGrilla..old Vlad lived about 5500 years after you believe the world was created and about 400 years or so before Robert E Lee( all stand and remove your hats..sorry Mr Hess i forgot Mutzen Ab) tried t save it.
Yes Steely Mr Hess runs a tight ship..tight but fair..no cursing, no taking the Lord's name in vain but if you want t link t a site positively brimming with the vilest neo racist filth no problems..did you know Old Honest Abe was a practicing sodomite..No?..neither did I..it just goes t show you do learn something new everyday.
I learned that the one and only time i visited Fair Play for JFK..it was like someone emptied a truck full of air conditioners into Stormfront..but still the stench remained..clinging valiantly on like some of Gen Forrests brave grey coated troopers.
Mr Hess and Mr DeGrilla are amongst the elect..the anoited..the Holy Spirit is always jabbering away..they don't need t waste their time with facts..they just know stuff. Why the fuck would they need t research? They got faith in good ole god fearing Henry Wade..are you sure about this new fangled Voice Stress Analysis..sounds awful like Satan's handiwork t me.

Sean DeGrilla wrote:Good morning all.  First off, Jim "Hessterectomy" Hess invites you to join his FB group Fair Play for JFK.  I believe that everyone would benefit from a healthy discussion where we challenge each other.  The site is almost 50/50 LN/CT.  Second, there are some misconceptions about my book "Malcontent" that have been posted here.  I could be mistaken, but from the comments it appears no one here has read my book, except for the excerpts on the back cover.  The Leavelle notes were not taken contemporaneously during the investigation.  Jim has been a guest speaker many times, especially during the 80s and 90s.  A look through Appendix A of my book, which contains the Leavelle notes, one would see references to events that occurred in the 90s.  These notes were obviously not available during his Warren Commission testimony because they didn't exist then.  
The greatest contribution of my book, which has not yet been discussed here, is the first-ever Computer Voice Stress Analysis of LHO.  This was done by an associate of the individual who invented the CVSA.  It is more that 98 percent accurate and is used by more than 2000 law enforcement agencies worldwide.  I have taken one myself for law enforcement employment and they are absolutely accurate.  My analysis was peer reviewed and verified.  All documentation generated during my investigation, including the peer review, is included in my book.  No documentation was left out.  I also totally refute O'Toole's PSE analysis which is described in detail in Part II.  I would be more than happy to mail one of you a copy of my book.  Please email me if you are interested.  Although I realize nothing will change your minds, at least you will have the material so that there can be an educated discussion about it.  I hope to see you all on the Fair Play site soon.  Thank you.

Manufacturers of Voice Stress Analysis (VSA) devices have suggested that their devices are able to measure deception with great accuracy, low cost, and little training. As a result, police departments across the country have purchased costly VSA computer programs with the intention of supplementing (or supplanting) the use of the polygraph at an estimated cost of more than $16,000,000. Previous VSA studies have been conducted using simulated deception in laboratory conditions. These earlier research projects suggest that VSA programs have the capacity to detect changes in vocal patterns as a result of induced stress. To date, however, no published research studies have demonstrated that VSA programs can distinguish between “general” stress and the stress related to being deceptive. The goal of this study was to test the validity and reliability of two popular VSA programs (LVA and CVSA) in a “real world” setting.

Questions about recent drug use were asked of a random sample of arrestees in a county jail. Their responses and the VSA output were compared to a subsequent urinalysis to determine if the VSA programs could detect deception. Both VSA programs show poor validity - neither program efficiently determined who was being deceptive about recent drug use. The programs were not able to detect deception at a rate any better than chance. The data also suggest poor reliability for both VSA products when we compared expert and novice interpretations of the output. Correlations between novices and experts ranged from 0.11 to 0.52 (depending on the drug in question). Finally, we found that arrestees in this VSA study were much less likely to be deceptive about recent drug use than arrestees in a non-VSA research project that used the same protocol (i.e., the ADAM project). This finding provides support for the “bogus pipeline” effect. 
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/219031.pdf

The "bogus pipeline" effect is simply that people are less likely to lie if they believe you already possess the facts.

Sean, I am not surprised at all that some police forces love this shit. More junk science to validate their "hunches" and/or to scare confessions. Unsurprisingly, it is not allowed in court, which I note you didn't mention. But then courts do have slightly higher standards than cops, no?

Should I invite Elroy Phillips to join us to discuss other cop methods used?

I was booted off Hess's group for blasphemy or some such nonsense. He was looking for an excuse and that was it. They cannot handle anyone providing actual evidence.

But back to your book... did you, Sean, address the 40+ times where Leavelle claimed lack of memory in his Warren Commission testimony? If not, why not? Are you aware that his decades-on "improved" memory is antithetical to what science says it should be?

How do you feel about the Reid Technique?

The concept of Consciousness of Guilt and the police framing of Oswald

Consciousness of guilt is a legal concept and a type of circumstantial evidence of guilt. It is based on a criminal suspect who demonstrates a guilty conscience by their actions or speech.[1] Some examples of consciousness of guilt are:[1]

• Fleeing from the crime scene or jurisdiction
  

We all know how this was fabricated. Oswald left the same way everyone else did and Revill's note is proof of that, along with the interrogation reports which clearly spell out how he left was in fact, no different to any one else. The problem for the prosecution is that Oswald could not have know how everyone left if he himself left within 2 or 3 minutes of the shooting. 

• False statements and lies
  

All attributed to him by law enforcement who routinely lie to suspect and routinely breach their civil rights.  According to Harvard Professor of Law,  Professor Dershowitz, the top appellate lawyer in the US, "It is easier to convict guilty defendants by violating the Constitution than by complying with it, and in some cases it is impossible to convict guilty defendants without violating the Constitution." Of course, the DPD could have used a tape recorder... under the circumstances, I'm sure they could have borrowed one so there would be no doubt about anything said.

• False alibi
  

Oswald's alibi was that he was on the first floor and briefly outside at all relevant times. This is supported by a veritable mountain of evidence, including that he correctly identified two employees re-entering the building 5 minutes prior to the shots ringing out - something he could not have seen from the 6th floor.

• Changing one's name or personal appearance
  

Hence the false narrative concocted by police of his going home and changing shirts and using aliases. These things have been thoroughly debunked here if you care to search.

• Concealing or destroying evidence
  

On the contrary, Oswald seems to have gone out of his way to incriminate himself. Extremely traceable Mail order weapons, suspicious photos, not wiping prints, and lots and lots of helpful material in Ruth's Magical Garage. Bu he did try and hide the weapon according the cops. Yeah, right.

• Witness intimidation or bribery
  
  

The only witness intimidation was by police - see Buell Frazier as exhibit one.

• Generally, any attempts to cover up a crime
  

He denied it, ipso facto, he must be guilty.

The poeple on this forum change their minds whenever better evidence comes up, so don't ever say we are incapable of changing our minds. The forum is full of examples proving you wrong, Sean. The real question is, are you capable of changing yours?

My best guess is, no. If you come back at all, you will continue claiming the CVSA is nearly infallible - despite the clear evidence provided showing otherwise, and you will ignore the stuff listed here that you cannot hope to defend. You just have too much invested to change.

But please, prove me wrong.

And one more thing Sean. It doesn't matter what the LN/CT split is at Hess's group. We are not in either camp. We deal in evidence, not theory - whether by government committee or private researchers.

Personally, I'd put the split at 99% total fuckwits and propagandists. I refuse to say what the 1 percent is. I'll just let Hess' paranoia run rampant with that. 

Mr DeGrilla i apologise if i sounded flippant before. Please be assured it was purely intentional.
As a relative newcomer around here i wouldn't dare t speak presumptuously on behalf of the other ROKCers. Their command of the evidence far exceeds mine.
The members here deal in evidence. Not reactionary fantasies. Not in rigid doctrinal fables. They are some of the most honest rational researchers I've ever had the pleasure of encountering.
They are not afraid of being wrong. Nor are they obsessed with being right. They want t get this case reopened. With neither fear nor favour they confront all falsehoods equally. LN/CT is a false dichotomy. Like shrill voiced high school debating teams. They only help t prop up the worm eaten facade. Promulgate doubt and helplessness.
We are honest, sometimes brutally and we aren't afraid t express ourselves using colourful language. As one of the main offenders let me say we only satirise what needs satirising. Pompous, self righteous buffoons.
Your tone is very familiar. Stilted platitudes concealing a contemptuous sneer.
Like a Prussian general peering haughtily through his monocle at the peasants he plans t turn into cannon fodder.
Profanity is nothing compared t self righteous hypocrisy.
Mr DeGrilla you're right. I've never read your "book". But it's right there on my Amazon wish list alongside The Kama Sutra for Creationists and Let's Go Flat Earthing!! Your title said it all..Malcontent..I'm sure it's an honest reasoned non judgemental tome.
Your beliefs don't offend me. Its the insufferable arrogance. The smug certainty that you, Mr Hess and your colleagues are above it all. Looking down from the clouds while you frolic with jack booted cherubs. Believe what you want sir but don't presume your beliefs are better than anyone elses. Beliefs don't make truths
I don't think we'll be seeing Mr DeGrilla again Greg..it's the old hit and run..chuck the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch and scarper..
I visited" Fair Play for JFK" and like the time i visited the holy cesspit of St Septicicus..i knew one time would be enough.
I found the site repulsive..close minded sanctimony masquerading as fair mindedness..kindergarten level analytical skills..a quite shocking intellectual vacuity..hateful smugness hidden by a thin veil of tabloid sanctity.a cheerful disregard for historical truth..and worst of all links t websites that were truly offensive.
Gutter revisionism at its very worst. A complete inability t confront the past truthfully. It is only by facing our flaws we can learn from them. And often we can turn them into strengths but denying them condemns the denier t make the same mistake over and over..maybe with slight modifications..Vince DeMaio and the NAA tests became the Fisher Panel and now apparently its metamorphosised into magical Voice Stress Analysis.
Your excavation of Mr Leavelles notes is a feat of archeological legerdemain Howard Carter would be proud of.
Greg has outlined the deficiencies in your methods better than i ever could so i will bid you good day.
Say hello t the learned Mr Peeks..tell him i know someone who has the dirty book Gen Longstreet read the night before Gettysburg and the toilet seat Gen Lee sat on at Appomattox if he's interested...
The South Will Rise Again because they stole all the Norths self raising flour

alex wilson wrote:The South Will Rise Again because they stole all the Norths self raising flour

 
You know you're still sane when you can still laugh your ass off.
:: checking the box ::
Good for another day.

It's my pleasure Stan. I must owe you several months worth of sanity then! I admire your gifs and memes as much as your book. If it was up t me I'd award you the Golden Gerbil for going above and beyond the call of duty..
I hope you don't mind me saying this but when it comes t puncturing po faced gas filled balloons with a well placed wittiscm and exposing ridiculous buffoonery with incisive barb you ,Greg and the other musketeers were my mentors.
Your post on the "Changing of the Guards" thread really resonated..we may have travelled different paths but we seem t have found our way t the same destination.
I must sound like some wide eyed sycophant, but i don't give a fuck. I'm not ashamed t admit that you were the guys who inspired me t get back into the case.
The quality of the humour here is only exceeded by the quality of the research..imagine Sherlock Holmes putting a Peter Cook flavoured gerbil in his tube.
DeGrilla, Hess and their collaborators make me sick. Sanctimonious hypocrites one and all. Simple minded gullible jerks.. Who the fuck does he think he is? Smarmy twat coming over here patronising researchers who are so far ahead of him, they're not even a tiny fiery gerbil shaped dot in the horizon.
Banning Greg for "blasphemy"..for fuck sake where does he think he is? Teetering down t cobbled lanes of 17th century Salem? With a grimy heavily stained copycopy of Delilah doeth Deptford stuffed into his Bible....
He banned Greg because Greg made them look like the ignorant hypocritical pricks they undoubtedly are.
Banning someone for blasphemy while allowing a moderator t post links t a site that peddles the very worst revisionist pornography says it all.

Mr Hess, I read you wanted t debate an ROKCer on your Facebook page. No doubt you had Greg, Stan, Steely or one of the brighter lights in mind and you must be disappointed that only one of the newer less accomplished posters responded.
I would never presume t speak for the rest of the ROKCers , as they are far more qualified than i am (just look at Greg's masterly dissection of Mr DeGrillas book for example, in a few short paragraphs he exposed the central premise of his work as grossly fallacious. And that's being polite) but since I've a few minutes t spare I'd like t correct a few of your most erroneous misconceptions.
First of all i joined ROKC t avoid more meaningless debates, we don't waste our time debating the undebatable. I can however see the logic behind your request; even the most superficial perusal of your page confirms that, yes indeed, the august members of Fair Play for JFK are the undoubted masters of meaningless debate.
One of your members commented that ROKC was an example of Group Think, I'll be generous here and put that comment down t simple lack of comprehension, as your members seem t struggle with the most basic concepts so i suppose expecting one of you t grasp the meaning of a relatively complex one would be a little too ambitious.
Group Think, II'll try t keep my description simple, but if any of your members still struggle then ask the illustrious Mr Peeks (he of the mighty intellect; no doubt Gibbons and Ovid sit side by side with the Penthouse Illustrated History of the 20th century and Join the Dots with Alexander Stephens and Barney the dinosaur - or does mr Peeks consider him a crypto communist miscegenated Quran loving menace?--on his bookcase) t explain, basically means people who echo beliefs without understanding those beliefs, simply t fit in.
I couldn't think of a more inappropriate description of ROKCers. They most decidedly do not fit in. Even amongst ourselves. It is a collection of individuals united in a common goal If we have reached the same basic conclusions then it is only through careful study. The people here have been astute enough t shun the simplistic LN v CT divide, and it has been designed primarily t divide, t keep people mired in endless circular debates( I'm sure those weren't the sort of debates you had in mind), if your looking for examples of Group Think i suggest you try the Ed forum or the Deep Foo, endless repetitious parroting of dogmas and quasi religious uniformity is their forte. Mr Jefferies for example is a master debater
Or i suggest you look a little closer; Group Think often begins at home.
People here are also astute enough t realise the utter pointlessness of the old vacuous LN CT paradigm. Its an utter waste of time. Over the years they've learned t mirror each other's habits: self righteousness, hypocrisy and empty pontification.
The JFK assassination is merely an excuse.
However incredible this may sound t you ROKC chooses t espouse a radical new method.
Ignore everything, all the tribalism all the quasi religious symbolism..everything that is except the evidence. A fact is simply treated as a fact here.Even the most venerable conspiracy myth is not considered sacred.
"CTers" IMHO have just done as much damage as LNers clinging bitterly t their dogmas even after they've been exposed as lies. You see how much you have in common!
On the subject of profanity, call me naive but i think profane minds and profane deeds have done a lot more damage than simple words. Often it is the minds of the profane that turn words into profanity. It is not so much the words, rather than the people who wield them. You should spend more time worrying about what you say rather than wasting time worrying about how you say it. Meaningless platitudes are only worth as much as the person who utters them, thus in most cases they are worthless. Normally they just create a mask of faux gentility. I prefer truths t euphemisms.
ROKC uses satire, so what? Often the satirist exposes exactly what it is the satirised are trying desperately t hide. Is that not a good thing?. Laughter reduces the pompous t their rightful place.
I joined ROKC t get away from pointless debate, suffocating conformity. I noinex because of the research, because of the people and their ability t laugh, at themselves if need be.
You seem t take great pride in your knowledge and your fairmindedness but your actions tell a different story. You impose restrictions that mirror your biases. You banned Greg for a so called "profanity", perhaps you think Matthew Hopkins waz a crusader for truth and righteousness and Incitatus a maligned prophet i don't know, but in my opinion banning someone for blasphemy while allowing a moderator t post links t a horrendous site, brimming with ill disguised hatred and historical revisionist pornography of the very worst sort, says more about you and your so called standards.
I have t b honest with you, i can't take anyone who believes Oswald is guilty seriously. Believes being the operative word. America is a great country and i don't think admitting the mistakes of the past in anyway diminishes that greatness.
Oswald was a sacrificial victim offered up t placate the masses. He was an innocent man. The guilty are beyond earthly justice but their crime is not. Do you not understand as long as the true culprits, albeit only in name, remain unpunished we all suffer..the assassination gave us a glimmer of the darkness that threatens us all. T turn us all into shadows. The appetite grows with the eating, and since Oswald the appetite has multipled by the million. Don't deceive yourself we a all potential victims. If you understand history you understand just how thin the crust of civilisation is.
To me countries flags and religious paraphernalia are the problem. The people who arranged JFKs assassination did so in the name of their God and their country.
They made sure the flags flew at half mast.
Sentiment is cheap. Life is even cheaper
Perhaps you are right. If i insisted i was then I'd be a hypocrite.
I read your page once and i thought of Socrates..and i paraphrase " the greatest fool believes he knows everything. The wisest man is he who understands how little he knows"
I'm afraid i must decline your invitation, perhaps one of the others might join.
Good afternoon
"Alex"

Sean,

since you have chosen to write a book condemning a man based on "consciousness of guilt", and since most of us here believe the actions and words attributed to Oswald which lead to your conclusions, were in fact, manufactured by police using the Reid Technique to construct scenarios that tend to show guilt of the prime suspect as part of a frame-up, and since you yourself was once ensnared in a case where false evidence was used, and other allegations against you and other officers were leveled which amounted to an accusation of a frame-up, I think you should come back and explain why anyone should trust your word on anything

https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20141125a14

On March 4, 2013, Plaintiff initiated this action pro se. Doc. No. 1.1 On July 8, 2013, Plaintiff filed an amended complaint (the "Complaint") against Officers Sean DeGrilla and Robert Riley (collectively, the "Defendants"). Doc. No. 23. The Complaint arises from Defendants' February 10, 2010 arrest of Plaintiff. Id. at ¶ 1. The gravamen of the Complaint is that Defendants violated Plaintiff's "Constitutional rights under the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution and the laws of the State of Florida" by "unlawfully inflict[ing] bodily harm to plaintiff, falsely arrest[ing] plaintiff, and unlawfully search[ing] his car and person[.]" Id. at ¶ 2. As a result of these alleged violations, Plaintiff alleges that he suffered, among other things, bodily injury, financial harm, and has been "unable to find gainful employment and has been fired from a job." Id. at ¶¶ 4-5. Plaintiff seeks $350,000.00 in compensatory damages, $50,000.00 in punitive damages, and deletion of all criminal records created as a result of his arrest. Id. at 3.

https://www.change.org/p/free-elroy-phillips-15-years-behind-bars-for-a-crime-he-never-committed

In 2002, after a lengthy trial, Elroy was convicted of selling drugs based on the false testimony of a police officer who is now known to be corrupt. Officer Ghent falsified evidence, and claimed he had a witness to the deal and provided sworn statements from her, when, in fact, she swears she had no knowledge of it and was not there. Since Elroy’s conviction, evidence has arisen that Ghent wasn’t even on duty the day he claims to have made this undercover deal with Elroy. 

I would also like to send an invitation to Jim Hess to join the forum for a one on one debate under the same conditions that I debated here:

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1573-invitation-to-dr-norwood

I think we all recognize the MO used in this frame.

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/elroy-phillips-sits-in-prison-despite-proof-of-his-innocence-6382943

Since West Palm Beach Police arrested Phillips in 2001 for allegedly selling $50 worth of crack to an undercover cop, he has spent the years collecting evidence. His legal work appears to show that the police fabricated evidence against him. A woman whom cops say witnessed the drug buy has since testified she wasn't even at the scene. Personnel records show that the undercover agent who claimed to have bought the crack wasn't on duty the night of the alleged buy. That officer — whose word single-handedly convicted Phillips — has since turned in his badge after facing accusations that he was a dirty cop.
In response, prosecutors and West Palm Beach cops have tried to cover up the shoddy police work. They appear to have doctored documents and lied in official statements. The woman who supposedly witnessed the drug buy even says she was offered money from a federal prosecutor and police officers to stick to the story.

It's still not entirely clear to me what your role in all of this was, Sean.

It was probably minor or peripheral. Whatever the case, I'm sure you believed you were serving justice, helping to take another scumbag trafficker off the streets.  I mean, you had no choice did you? you couldn't let your fellow officers down, could you? This was not about personal profit; it was about getting justice for all the lives destroyed by this evil bastard. Hell, you probably should have all got medals. The courts are too soft. Everyone knows that, and everything is weighted in favor of the accused. This was just about balancing those scales, wasn't it? Tell you what, Sean, come on in and help us get this straightened out and then we can all go home! That's all we need, Sean... just for you to tell us what really went down that night, and it'll all be over.

Did you see what I did there, Sean? Perhaps you recognize that MO?   

Let me get this straight Greg..a police officer accused, allegedly, of being involved, allegedly, in a frame up and miscarriage, allegedly, of justice writes a book exonerating another police department of misconduct...ha ha ha not even Henry James could have dreamt up such irony. Like " How to look after your gerbil" by B Doyle.." Good mental health" edited by A Doyle.." Creative Writing for beginners" by L Trotter.." Let's go false flagging!! Keep fit tips for the rationally minded" edited by James Fetzer " The Wildlife of Dealey Plaza" by J Butler." Measure your way to mental health" by C Davidson and D Josephs." Lets go loyering..an American legal system pop up book- for loyers too busy t read" by Prof Dr D Meredith PhD ( Cantab) LLB( Oxon) MA BA LLd VD etc etc..
His book ( titled Malcontent..mr DeGrilla outs himself as a fan of Anglo Saxon jurisprudence and the concept of innocent until proven guilty..I'm surprised he didn't go for something catchier..Murderous Commie Bastard....perhaps the illustrious Mr Hess could tell him about Roland Freisler another crusader for justice..) no doubt portays the Dallas Police as heroes..their cowboy hats concealing their halos..and Oswald as a squalid wife beating sociopath.
Maybe he'll be kind enough t correct our misconceptions..
This voice stress analysis just sounds fascinating..and Det Leavelles reminiscences are no doubt highly illuminating..
C'mon Greg..if Messrs Hess and DeGrilla say Oswalds guilty he must be guilty.
Have you forgotten the Harvey and Lee brigade.remember how dumb they made you look? ...these guys may wear cowboy hats instead of natty tin foil numbers but in essence they're the same. They don't need t worry their heads with facts..( hasn't it been proven by the Peeks Institute of Applied Miscegenation that all intellectuals are communist Quran reading homosexual enablers)..they just KNOW stuff.
The Fez has his amazing diagrams..remember the 13 inch heads? And boy did poor Brian get a surprise when he tried Googling it..just like Mr DeGrilla has his voice stress analysis.
Jimbo "Listen Up! I'm Gandalfs gay lover..see !I've got his pubes stapled t my chin" Hargrove has got Myra DaRouses holy writ just like mr DeGrilla has Det Leavelles revelations..maybe he's like JVB..maybe he waited all these years cos he's afraid for his life..you know what these dirty commie yankees are like..a despicable bunch..i mean they accused the Confederates of fighting the "War of Northern Aggression" over slavery. A load of filthy lies..it was that boy loving reprobate Lincoln up t his tricks again..peddling his lies and his homosexual agenda. The South were upright God fearing patroits..fighting honourably for their way of life.
I mean what's the evidence? Alexander Stephens "Cornerstone" speech..Northern propoganda..and the declarations of succession that explicitly mentioned slavery..all lies...
Just like all the rubbish about Oswalds innocence..its all bullshit...all commies are bloodthirsty maniacs..Oswald shot JFK..got the bus home and then he went t a war film...you see the communist bastard hadn't sated his bloodlust yet.
Greg you don't know American history like Messrs Hess DeGrilla and Peeks..Oswald was guilty just like those yankee monsters drunk on lilywhite Southern blood started the War of Northern Aggression..it was nothing t do with slavery..just as Prayerman has nothing t do with the JFK case.
Oswald shot JFK and the North invaded the South because that degenerate Lincoln had the hots for Jefferson Davis..he was jealous of his wicked haircut and he was jealous of Stonewall Jackson's beard.
I'm sure Mr Hess( if he isn't busy filming) will come over here and put us all in our place..why if you take away the tache and the hat and add some pink sandals and a few terrified rodents Mr Hess could almost be Brian Doyle. A fearsome intellect and tireless warrior for truth and justice.
Face it were just a bunch of foul mouthed trolls...
All we need is our grandpappies musket and our skillets..
"Oh i wish i was in the land of the cotton.."

greg parker wrote:I think we all recognize the MO used in this frame.

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/elroy-phillips-sits-in-prison-despite-proof-of-his-innocence-6382943

Since West Palm Beach Police arrested Phillips in 2001 for allegedly selling $50 worth of crack to an undercover cop, he has spent the years collecting evidence. His legal work appears to show that the police fabricated evidence against him. A woman whom cops say witnessed the drug buy has since testified she wasn't even at the scene. Personnel records show that the undercover agent who claimed to have bought the crack wasn't on duty the night of the alleged buy. That officer — whose word single-handedly convicted Phillips — has since turned in his badge after facing accusations that he was a dirty cop.
In response, prosecutors and West Palm Beach cops have tried to cover up the shoddy police work. They appear to have doctored documents and lied in official statements. The woman who supposedly witnessed the drug buy even says she was offered money from a federal prosecutor and police officers to stick to the story.

It's still not entirely clear to me what your role in all of this was, Sean.

It was probably minor or peripheral. Whatever the case, I'm sure you believed you were serving justice, helping to take another scumbag trafficker off the streets.  I mean, you had no choice did you? you couldn't let your fellow officers down, could you? This was not about personal profit; it was about getting justice for all the lives destroyed by this evil bastard. Hell, you probably should have all got medals. The courts are too soft. Everyone knows that, and everything is weighted in favor of the accused. This was just about balancing those scales, wasn't it? Tell you what, Sean, come on in and help us get this straightened out and then we can all go home! That's all we need, Sean... just for you to tell us what really went down that night, and it'll all be over.

Did you see what I did there, Sean? Perhaps you recognize that MO?   

You used the word "bastard". He read it!. It will be a long road to recovery for a dedicated ex-cop.

I don't know what you're implying Steely. I've just spent the last half hour on Mr Hess's fine site...you don't know what your missing..i pity your gerbil addled mind
The potency of their arguments, their obvious humanitarianism, their deep respect for legal precedent and historical integrity....not t mention the extraordinary facial hair..why it was like gatecrashing a Dukes of Hazzard convention in a retirement home for 70s porn stars..sure done convinced me. Yee- Hay..
We're terrible terrible people..degenerates and reprobates. Not only do we use profanity and make crude jokes, you poor misguided souls have spent years of your lifes trying t clear an innocent man's name and right a great legal injustice.
What in the name of John Armstrong do you think you're doing? Won't you please please think of the children( no, not you Brian)..think of the awful example you're setting for the next generation..
Oswald was guilty!! One cop told another cop who told another cop..what more evidence do you need? If Oswald was Prayerman he must have levitated down the 6 flights of stairs..haven't you read Jack White and John Butler's groundbreaking work?
Dealey Plaza exists in a dimension all of it's own..Will Fritz was just Rod Serling in a cowboy hat.
Fair Play for JFK!! And what's fairer than trying t stitch up the moth eaten shroud that obscures the truth with more lies..New lies for old..Fair Play for JFK..
Fair Play for Det Leavelle..Fair Play for Sean DeGrilla...God bless John McAdams and David Von Pein..brave warriors for truth and justice
Keep the Kennedy Case Closed!! Oswald was guilty.....
Forget Fair Play for JFK...I've had my eyes and my mind opened by the Oswald was not a shooter site. Its beyond caricature, every steaming dollop of tin foil shit mixed together into a giant gumbo of paranoid anti government crankery...compared t Dickie Hooke and his sidekick Carwoman John Butler comes across as a sober rational commentator possessing a piercing laser like intellect.
They've cobbled together a Spruce Goose of conspiratorial fantasy..and i quote
"Jackie was a better shot than Oswald"..that's right after CIA Illuminati Jesuit Deep State founder member of Showaddywaddy Bill Greer shot JFK with his magic pellet gun( and after James Files Charles Nicolleti Roscoe White Loy Factor JD Tippitt Jimmy Tarbuck Ken Dodd the guy who had his hand stuck up Basil Brushes arse..i mean who arranged the hit? Cecil B DeMille.. had done their stuff) CIA Illuminati Jesuit Deep State stooge Jackie shot her husband in the head, in broad day light in an open topped limo with a mercury filled pellet gun..( made by John Noakes and Valerie Singleton on Blue Peter)
This takes tin foil hattery t new hitherto unimagined heights...oh Oswald was guilty alright..along with the cast of thousands mentioned above.
I'm surprised an enterprising local didn't set up a refreshment stand on the Grassy Knoll..it must have been swarming with nefarious violin case carrying desperados.." Can i get you a Coca-Cola Mr Files? How about a hot dog for you Mr White?"

steely wrote:You used the word "bastard". He read it!. It will be a long road to recovery for a dedicated ex-cop.

Shit!!! Fuck off. Did I really do that? Fuck I'm sorry, Sean. Hope the fuck you can forgive me.

Jim Hess, I had the balls to enter your forum where I was immediately greeted with the warning that I needed to let the LN's win arguments if I wanted to stay.

i am saying to you, it is your turn to play an "away" game. Come here and debate. You will get a much fairer deal here, than I got at your place.  The rules would be simple. Arguments should be supported with evidence. The other side can attack that evidence as to its credibility - same with witnesses quoted. Thread will be just for the two of us. If anyone else posts, except for an impartial "referee" (assuming we can find one), the post will be deleted as soon I see it. 

You can add to or alter these rules if you have something better.

The area I would like to debate is the framing of Oswald and the events of that weekend from lunchtime Friday on until Oswald was shot. 

You can also nominate an area of your own choice.

Hey Sean, here is Steve Roe giving me the best he has got. It really says a lot for the quality and knowledge of Warren Commission defenders. Surely you and Mr Hess can do better? Come on back and bring Jimmy with you and let's find out!

There's more chance of JVB giving out refunds than an honest debate with Hess and Roe.

THAT was epic. Funny too. "That could be difficult, but we'll try"