Time to Kill another Myth: There was no second Oswald arrested at the theater

Mon 26 Aug 2019, 8:43 am

First topic message reminder :

Over at the Uneducated Forum, a Mr Ron Bulman started a thread titled Two Oswalds In the Texas Theater.

After pages and pages of interminable bullshit, Steve Thomas posted this

Time to Kill another Myth: There was no second Oswald arrested at the theater - Page 2 Image.png.d6566d426c474a16f8e1fe40518b6685

Time to Kill another Myth: There was no second Oswald arrested at the theater - Page 2 Image.png.d6566d426c474a16f8e1fe40518b6685

It is not hard to solve from there. The witness taken out the back and taken in for a statement (not under arrest, as some idiots claim), was George Applin. The above document says the witness heard the pistol click (actually a chair click)

Mr. BALL - Did you hear anything?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, about the only thing I heard was the snap of the gun and the officer saying, "Here he is."
Mr. BALL - You heard the snap of a gun?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir.

The document goes on to say that the three officers stayed and took contact details of all the patrons. Again confirmed by Applin.

Mr. BALL - And did you go out and follow them out?
Mr. APPLIN - No, sir; I went out to the candy counter out there and the officer said, if there's anybody in there that seen it--and asked--there was about two or three, the candyman himself, and said--that one boy said that he seen him, through the front--I mean out from behind the picture where it came out---supposed to came out behind the picture.
Mr. BALL - Did you give them your name there?
Mr. APPLIN - He asked my name and address and where I was staying at the time.

Lastly, the document says that this witness was taken by the three into City Hall.

Mr. BALL - Later did you go down to the police station and make a statement?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL - When?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, it was after--I guess after they got everybody's name. I rode down with three officers.
Mr. BALL - That same day, did you?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - You didn't go back to the picture show?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; I did. There was a patrolman that carried me back out and I was going to see the rest of it, but I never did get back in time to.
Mr. BALL - You didn't get to see the show?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, I seen part of it, but I didn't get to see all of it.

But we know the Hargroves of this world are impervious to facts, so we should expect to still be reading in another 50 years how a second Oswald was taken out the back and arrested.

Sun 08 Sep 2019, 4:30 pm

Karl Hilliard at the Ed Forum wrote:I saw that ROKC thread. If they mean well, it seems like it's in a mean spirited way.

There is a context to these things Karl. There is always a context.

Apart from that, sometimes you have to be mean to be cruel. Or s it "cruel to be mean"? Whatever. Seriously though, who could resist being mean to the only Hobbit ever rejected by Peter Jackson?

He and his fellow Hobbits at the 13 Inch Ed Forum and fellow travelers at the Deep Foo do more damage than any Lone Nutter could ever dream of. They deserve all the scorn they get.

Four Mrs Reids
Three French snipers, hidden in trees
Two different Lees
And a big fat plot - by alllllll six degrees

Sun 08 Sep 2019, 7:51 pm

Glad you liked it, guys! I've just added a further post, pointing out that if Burroughs and the police reports are all accurate, as Hargrove thinks, we have a grand total of three Oswalds being arrested in full view of the public. Nothing implausible about that!

Greg wrote: "If Hargrove had an ounce of decency, he would thank Armstrong for all the files, but denounce his theory and walk away from it." I can't help wondering why Hargrove keeps on plugging this nonsense. He doesn't seem to be attached to most of the other super-paranoid stuff like Lifton's body alteration theory and the idea that all the photographs and home movies are fakes, which suggests that maybe he's doing it for the money, and he sees Armstrong as some rich sucker with more money than sense. Or perhaps he isn't getting paid and he does genuinely believe what he's saying. I really don't know. I suspect the truth is that he may have believed the nonsense once upon a time, but he's put too much into it and can't face backing down now, and, what's worse, isn't even getting paid for making himself look like an idiot.

Sun 08 Sep 2019, 8:05 pm

I used to think that Hargrove is just an alias for Amstrong.

Sun 08 Sep 2019, 10:14 pm

How does the hobbit David Miscavige answer Jeremy's very reasonable questions?
He falls back on the self pitying martyr routine beloved of all cultsters and outed hucksters..
Tugging his grandfatherly beard demurely and batting his great big hobbity eyes he sniffs" The more names they call me..the more I'm convinced I'm right"
There we have it then.
Jimbo the hustlin' hobbit...Middle Earths answer t Huggy Bear brings the " debate" down t schoolyard level...Stripling High School level.
The more their fantasy is punctured the more self righteous they get.
THE TWELVE GOYS OF XMAS
A New Orleans Christmas Carol.
Adapted by J Fetzer D Hooke and K" Hang em High" Barrett
On the 12th goy of Xmas my Judy brought t me-
12 monkeys a tumourin'
11 Clays a whippin'
10 Daves a fairyin'
9 mouses a cancerin'
8 Perrys a Russo-in'
7 Cubans a plottin'
6 Guys a Banisterin'
Five Wedding Rings
4 Reids a Robertin'
3 Lee's a layin'
2 Harveys a fakin'
And a Judy at Lafayette 1223..

Sun 08 Sep 2019, 10:33 pm

is THE TWELVE GOYS OF XMAS available on Itunes?

it should be.

Sun 08 Sep 2019, 10:39 pm

Of course it's not..iTunes is part of the Zionist Occupation Government power structure..the CEO is a 33rd degree lizard person..
C'mon Greg..its all in the The Vacant Lot's book..
"Hidden History-101 recipes for Revisionists"

Sun 08 Sep 2019, 11:29 pm

alex wilson wrote:Of course it's not..iTunes is part of the Zionist Occupation Government power structure..the CEO is a 33rd degree lizard person..
C'mon Greg..its all in the The Vacant Lot's book..
"Hidden History-101 recipes for Revisionists"

ZOG DAMNIT! I SHOULDA KNOWD IT.

Mon 09 Sep 2019, 2:41 am

greg parker wrote:

Karl Hilliard at the Ed Forum wrote:I saw that ROKC thread. If they mean well, it seems like it's in a mean spirited way.

There is a context to these things Karl. There is always a context.

Apart from that, sometimes you have to be mean to be cruel. Or s it "cruel to be mean"? Whatever. Seriously though, who could resist being mean to the only Hobbit ever rejected by Peter Jackson?

He and his fellow Hobbits at the 13 Inch Ed Forum and fellow travelers at the Deep Foo do more damage than any Lone Nutter could ever dream of. They deserve all the scorn they get.

Four Mrs Reids
Three French snipers, hidden in trees
Two different Lees
And a big fat plot - by alllllll six degrees

Hargrove wrote: "....the more names I'm called, the more insults they hurl at me, the more I'm convinced I'm right."

I'd say it is indicative of his emotional state of mind that he would consider insults and name calling as reasons to confirm his beliefs in two Oswalds. Apparently he was not convinced until the names and insults started and those are what convince him he is right. Strange intellectual mindset. Really very childish.

Mon 09 Sep 2019, 8:29 am

Jake Sykes wrote:

greg parker wrote:

Karl Hilliard at the Ed Forum wrote:I saw that ROKC thread. If they mean well, it seems like it's in a mean spirited way.

There is a context to these things Karl. There is always a context.

Apart from that, sometimes you have to be mean to be cruel. Or s it "cruel to be mean"? Whatever. Seriously though, who could resist being mean to the only Hobbit ever rejected by Peter Jackson?

He and his fellow Hobbits at the 13 Inch Ed Forum and fellow travelers at the Deep Foo do more damage than any Lone Nutter could ever dream of. They deserve all the scorn they get.

Four Mrs Reids
Three French snipers, hidden in trees
Two different Lees
And a big fat plot - by alllllll six degrees

Hargrove wrote: "....the more names I'm called, the more insults they hurl at me, the more I'm convinced I'm right."

I'd say it is indicative of his emotional state of mind that he would consider insults and name calling as reasons to confirm his beliefs in two Oswalds. Apparently he was not convinced until the names and insults started and those are what convince him he is right. Strange intellectual mindset. Really very childish.

Yes, he is impervious to the facts that destroy his nonsense, but not the insults because they are confirmation he is right. Another example of his complete detachment from reality.

Tue 10 Sep 2019, 1:55 pm

Sandy at the 13\" Ed Forum wrote:“Hobbits always so polite, yes! O nice hobbits! Armstrong brings them up secret ways that nobody else could find. Tired he is, thirsty he is, yes thirsty; and he guides them and he searches for paths, and they saw sneak, sneak. Very nice friends, O yes my precious, very nice."

Jim Hargrove replying to Sandy at the 13\" Ed Forum wrote:“I am a Hobbit, like I said at the beginning. That doesn’t mean that at times, many times, I wasn’t a Dwarf, an Orc, even a bit Gollum-ish or Wraith-ish. But deep down, what I want to be is a Hobbit. Do you?”

Tue 10 Sep 2019, 9:31 pm

Let's not give the H and L cult any ideas...Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White?
Obviously the Death Eaters were running a long term doppelganger programme...Gandalf the White or Gandalf HARVEY White was obviously a half Orc orphan who spoke fluent Elvish...
And would you want t b in the bookclub that has t endure Brian and LarryTrotterImage expounding( with the aid of the graphic power point Larry ran off on his scanner) upon the true meaning behind the Lord of the Rings"? Imagine what ghastly depraved images flash thru Brian's Sanibel Gold ravaged mind at the mention of " Lord of the Rings"...and imagine LarryTrotterImages input sockets crackling with expectation..
" For clarification the book is called Lord of the Rings? A group of hairy swarthy men trying t evade the hot flames ejaculating from a giant eye...For clarification Brian how did they get hold of our holiday snaps? I thought the nudist renaissance fair had a strict policy..and what about the non disclosure agreements we made families sign?Remember Brian...the experimental spit roasts using live pigs and your late father's flamethrower?"
Fiery all seeing eyes..lumbering brainless hordes..burly dwarves and androgynous elfin humans...it either sounds like the attendees at one of Dawnies celebrated H and L lectures.. ..Armstrong as Sauron is suggestive on so many levels..or its John Butler's latest analysis of Altgens 5 and 6.
H and L as the JFK assassination equivalent of the Lord of the Rings...a perfect topic for a learned deep political symposium cum seance over on Der Forum..

Mon 16 Sep 2019, 3:27 am

H and L is the flypaper that otherwise useful researchers become adhered to. Then they just buzz there until they die.

Mon 16 Sep 2019, 9:28 am

Lincoln actually stole the phrase "better angels" from Shakespeare without attribution.

And Shakespeare's use of the term was entirely misogynistic - because according to him, the "better angels" were male and the "worser spirites" were female always tempting those better angels on a path to Hell.

But that's okay. I always wanted to visit Norway.

The appeal to play nice with those spreading tin-foil hat conspiracies is antithetical to anyone of us being taken seriously because it makes it so much easier to tarnish us all with the same brush. The search for truth is always hamstrung by any sanction against being able to call a spade a spade.

Since when does the desire to educate about real history require one to embrace fairy tales just because the fairy tales are being told politely, and those telling them are sensitive souls who cannot cope with rigorous critiques of their offerings?

CAPA works on the idea of the requirement for such a broad coalition, it plays nicely and works with provable fake witnesses and assorted holocaust deniers and UFO chasers. It is a shambles, with one of it's key lawyers admitting to me he can no longer bring himself to attend CAPA meetings because of the extremists.

The upshot of the protection of liars and sellers of nonsensical theories at the Education Forum is that they have very few sane and careful members left there, and in another 50 years, the natural heirs to Jim Hargrove and his circus clowns will still be debating Oswald's 13 inch head, and Caddy - who'll no doubt live several more centuries using Elizabeth Bathory's bathing rituals - will still be linking to every putrid anti-Kennedy story he can find when not talking about UFO secrets in the White House.

The Education Forum is indeed educational - just not in the way it was supposed to be.

More power to Jeremy for having the balls to call it how it is.

Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:11 am

More power to Jeremy for having the balls to call it how it is.

Amen to that Brother. And a hallelujah to the rest of it also. Really well said.

This crowd just doesn't have the critical thinking skills, or has just given up on ever accomplishing anything in the case. So I guess it's as you say, be polite, get along, and see who can sucker the most followers. Maybe cop a few coppers along the way.

Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:14 am

greg parker wrote:Since when does the desire to educate about real history require one to embrace fairy tales just because the fairy tales are being told politely, and those telling them are sensitive souls who cannot cope with rigorous critiques of their offerings?

"Politeness is organized indifference."
Paul Valery

Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:40 am

Stan Dane wrote:

greg parker wrote:Since when does the desire to educate about real history require one to embrace fairy tales just because the fairy tales are being told politely, and those telling them are sensitive souls who cannot cope with rigorous critiques of their offerings?

"Politeness is organized indifference."
Paul Valery

Damn! How did I miss that one?

Thank you, Stan and well played Paul Valery.

It certainly explains the English cricket team.

Tue 17 Sep 2019, 8:11 am

In quantum mechanics, objects exist in a haze of probability. They have a certain chance of being at point A, another chance of being at point B, and so on. Anywhere and everywhere.

Maybe the H&L faithful are using a form of quantum mechanics in their theories, only in this case it's quantum research: a whole bunch of probabilities where nothing can be exactly pinned down. If A don't work then go with B, then C, etc. then back again.

Hargrove could even get Davidson to come up with a formula to show it works.

Tue 17 Sep 2019, 7:37 pm

Thanks, guys. Sorry for the delay in replying. I was having a party, and it took me ages to fish all the discarded bikini-tops from the pool.

I really can't understand those people who don't seem to be bothered when someone spreads obviously deranged tin-foil hat nonsense, but who get all worked up when the deranged nonsense is described as deranged nonsense.

I wasn't expecting to get any straight answers from Jim, of course. The intention was just to neutralise that thread ('disinfect' might be a more appropriate word). Anyone who stumbles across it in the future, and who might be tempted to take Jim's nonsense seriously, will now realise that:
(a) There is a perfectly rational explanation for the Texas Theater incident.
(b) Jim is unable or unwilling to give a straight answer to that explanation.

I'd be surprised if the powers that be at the Ed Forum want it to become a tin-foil hat ghetto. It would lose whatever reputation it still has for hosting worthwhile research. Readership would plummet, and it would end up as an imitation of the Deeply Paranoid Forum. I once came across an article by James Gordon critical of one aspect of the 'Zapruder film is a fake' theory, so I'd guess he personally isn't sympathetic to the 'Harvey and Lee' stupidity.

On the plus side, the only person to have come out in support of Jim is John 'there were more than two Oswalds' Butler, the man who thinks that virtually every photo and home movie taken in Dealey Plaza was a fake.

A worthy convert indeed! Praise be to Armstrong!

Tue 17 Sep 2019, 11:12 pm

Kudos Jeremy for all your hard work in refuting the nonsense at the EF.

Thu 19 Sep 2019, 5:26 am

Jeremy, you deserve the Grand Cross of St Jack of White with diamonds , swords and golden oak leaf cluster( Patron Saint of the Tin Foil Hatters) for dealing with Jimbo Baggins of Bellend Hill, the horniest hobbit this side of Stripling High, John Butler,( the man who thinks Pablo Picasso, Jacques Cousteau Cecil B DeMille and Leni Riefenstahl were in Dealey Plaza on Nov 22nd 1963 co ordinating some grand multi faceted audio visual spectacular...think RMS Titanic on Main Street) and the latest recruit in Mings Intergalactic Finishing School for wannabe tin foil hat wearers..a guy who peddles LaRouchian bullshit about fiendish British plots..Sir Bertrand Russell that well known octogenarian assassin and kneecapper..all in one thread.
An outstanding performance.
And let me take this opportunity t welcome Mr John Iacoletti t ROKC..I'm a great fan of your work ...the way you ruthlessly dismembered Doyle's histrionic narcissistic rants was absolutely priceless..
Finding someone with your acerbic wit and obvious intelligence on the Imaginarium..a place populated by disturbed fantasists , failed hack writers turned apprentice McCarthyists and malfunctioning 80s word processors was like findind a family of Yowies hanging out with Bill Miller in the forests of British Columbia..
Or like finding a functioning brain cell rattling around inside Tyrannosaurus Tom Graves 14 foot frame..i shudder t think what kind of "Reds" he finds lurking under his trailer...

Thu 19 Sep 2019, 8:14 am

Jeremy Bojczuk wrote:Thanks, guys. Sorry for the delay in replying. I was having a party, and it took me ages to fish all the discarded bikini-tops from the pool.

I really can't understand those people who don't seem to be bothered when someone spreads obviously deranged tin-foil hat nonsense, but who get all worked up when the deranged nonsense is described as deranged nonsense.

I wasn't expecting to get any straight answers from Jim, of course. The intention was just to neutralise that thread ('disinfect' might be a more appropriate word). Anyone who stumbles across it in the future, and who might be tempted to take Jim's nonsense seriously, will now realise that:
(a) There is a perfectly rational explanation for the Texas Theater incident.
(b) Jim is unable or unwilling to give a straight answer to that explanation.

I'd be surprised if the powers that be at the Ed Forum want it to become a tin-foil hat ghetto. It would lose whatever reputation it still has for hosting worthwhile research. Readership would plummet, and it would end up as an imitation of the Deeply Paranoid Forum. I once came across an article by James Gordon critical of one aspect of the 'Zapruder film is a fake' theory, so I'd guess he personally isn't sympathetic to the 'Harvey and Lee' stupidity.

On the plus side, the only person to have come out in support of Jim is John 'there were more than two Oswalds' Butler, the man who thinks that virtually every photo and home movie taken in Dealey Plaza was a fake.

A worthy convert indeed! Praise be to Armstrong!

I can now see why you are merely an experienced 13" Ed Forum Member and Jim is an Uber Super-Duper Member.

A good detective would conclude that there were two fake Oswalds up on the balcony playing ROKC, SCISSORS, PAPER to see who stays and gets arrested up there and who goes downstairs to get arrested.

Time to Kill another Myth: There was no second Oswald arrested at the theater - Page 2 1335637587

Time to Kill another Myth: There was no second Oswald arrested at the theater - Page 2 1335637587

This is ClassicLeeOswaldImage sending a message to Fake Oswald #1 that he should have gone ROKC.

Fri 20 Sep 2019, 12:30 am

Awww Greg..you've gone and spoilt one of Dawnies most treasured fantasies.... The graffiti in the gents toilets of the Texas Very Busy Loyers Club says that Fake Lee #1 was making a "special sign" t our Dawnie..." This is what I'm going t do t you honey when we meet in the slipstream between the doppelganger daydream"...a marvellous dimension where Oswalds and intellectually stunted Texas Loyers of the very busy variety come and go at will. Fluttering phantasmal ..creatures...like the daytime soap opera shaped shadows that writhe thru Evelyns Oxycontin deadened mind...
Baba Armstrong is a kind god..he's ensured a portal from the doppelganger slipstream opens up in the alley behind the gents toilets of the Texas Very Busy Loyers Club...how convenient..
There's another portal..supposedly in the swampland behind the old Doyle motel..but no one who has sought it has ever come back alive...their severed heads always end up mounted on a plaque in Alberts old laboratory..

Fri 20 Sep 2019, 6:46 pm

Thanks again. Vinny, you aren't the only person who has raised the possibility that Hargrove and Armstrong might be the same person. I think it's unlikely, since their writing styles are quite different. Hargrove may be promoting nonsense, but he can at least string a sentence together.

Having said that, it is strange that Armstrong would go to all that trouble but then sit back and let his work get pummelled online, while Hargrove devotes a ridiculous amount of time to pushing that particular example of tin-foil hattery, yet avoids (as far as I'm aware) the body-alteration and photo-fakery stuff that the average 'Harvey and Lee' enthusiast can't get enough of. It doesn't make sense to me. Maybe Armstrong has some sort of disability that means he can't use a computer. More likely, he realises that he's never going to convince anyone but the paranoid and the gullible, so why bother?

I was really surprised to see Hargrove admit that he has been promoting the 'Harvey and Lee' nonsense for over 20 years, and that people have been making fun of him the whole time. And he still keeps doing it. Bizarre.

I think I've worked out why he hasn't yet thrown in the towel: Armstrong has some compromising photos from one of Hargrove's wild parties. That has to be it. There can be no other reason. I really don't want to think about what might be in the photos.

Alex, I will wear my medal with pride. And what's that gibbering mouth-frother going on about with "the British Empire" (whatever that is) being behind the assassination? The Ed Forum seems to be getting over-run with tin-foil hatters. I suspect its days are numbered.

Fri 20 Sep 2019, 7:37 pm

jeremy wrote:The Ed Forum seems to be getting over-run with tin-foil hatters. I suspect its days are numbered.

Indeed, so it was prophesied by the Great Seer Drago The Unknowable to the Half-Tit Dragoo the Unintelligible.

Sat 21 Sep 2019, 10:03 am

jeremy wrote:I was really surprised to see Hargrove admit that he has been promoting the 'Harvey and Lee' nonsense for over 20 years, and that people have been making fun of him the whole time. And he still keeps doing it. Bizarre.

I have another word for it: a lie.

I have been around the forums nearly as long as he has. When Armstrong and his theory burst onto the scene, he (Armstrong) was the darling of the CT community and had the backing of not only White - who was and still is - a legend in this community, but also Lancer and a swag of top-notch researchers, some of whom joined the effort to find support for the theory while the book was being stitched together. The cracks only started appearing when one or two of these researchers started quietly and behind the scenes, making suggestions regarding certain supporting evidence - and were quickly excommunicated for their trouble. I am not aware that any spoke out publicly, and as far as I know still supported at least the very basics of the theory.

On the forums themselves, especially on alt.conspiracy.jfk, Jim held court, rather than portray the court jester. I was among the newbies who just assumed people took the subject seriously and posted honestly. So I was among those who occasionally thanked him for the info he was posting. The only possible ones who made fun of him or the theory were Lone Nutters - but if that happened, I don't recall it. Even now, the only Lone Nutter who bothers dealing with him is Tracy Parnell and he does so with his usual good manners.

So... as far as I am aware, I was the first person to poke fun at him or the theory on any forum. And I did so only after digging into some of the claims when I grew tired of Jack White and gang taking over my threads on Oswald's background with "Harvey and Lee". And that does not go back anywhere near 20 years. He lied to gain sympathy and to portray himself as a victim or martyr.

When the reality is, he is just the Hobbit that Peter Jackson rejected.

Time to Kill another Myth: There was no second Oswald arrested at the theater

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