Lee Harvey VS Harvey Lee in the records

One of the first things you would do in any CIA doppelganger plot where one boy is raised to take over the identity of the other, would be to raise them with the same name - thus lessening the chance of anomalies in the records. But apparently they thought it better to call the doppelganger "Harvey Lee Oswald", instead of "Lee Harvey Oswald".  Which, to me at least, makes no sense.

And the fact is, there are simpler, innocent explanations without going into the doppelganger... or even mole-hunting bags.

1. Revill's list shows Harvey Lee Oswald. This explains how that happened.
https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1660-roll-call-remedy-reprise

2. Cops asking for "Harvey Lee Oswald" at the North Beckley Rooming house. If this actually happened, it is explicable via point 1. It makes sense that they would take Revill's list and look for others on it as also living at that rooming house. Why? Because communists and other groups often had cells in such in places. If I had been running the investigation, I would certainly want to check the names on that list against the registration records. After all, they obviously knew Oswald did not live at the address shown on the list, so any other address on it may also be false. In short, they may have asked for "Harvey Lee" because they were going off Revill's list. Just the fact that they would ask for "Harvey Lee" shows how stupid the whole idea was unless you gave the doppelgangers the same name.

3. From memory, I think Decker's file was Labelled "Harvey Lee Oswald". But there is no reason to believe that he did not get the name off the Revill list as well. And it also reinforces the stupidity of having one named "Harvey Lee".

3. Myra DeRouse insisting that the kid she recalled preferred to be named "Harvey". First of all, why is she the only one who recalls that? Could be simply an implanted memory? I am certain it was. The small bookish kid she recalls was actually someone else whose identity was revealed by another witness.
https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t227-armstrong-s-magic-tooth-and-the-facts-about-harvey-at-beauregard

4. The remainder? I believe the remainder can be put down to the way our brains operate. We instinctively go to what is familiar - and what is familiar is that "Lee" is most often a middle name e.g. Tommy Lee, Bobby Lee, Johnny Lee etc... so even when we hear or see  "Lee Harvey", because that doesn't square with what is familiar, we may write it unconsciously as "Harvey Lee". Remember, most of the references in the records to "Harvey Lee" were made at a time when Oswald was a "nobody".  But even the one or two slips that happened in testimony come under this general rule - the brain over-riding what you hear in favor of what it "knows".

My question is what makes it so necessary to even use Oswald or his name. This is the federal government for christsakes, couldn't they just create the necessary identity for him, either out of thin air, or through some other manner?They'd then likely place the boy with people who can legitimately further their aim. Not instead allow him to engage in behavior that attracts attention from local authorities with a person not only unable to look after him as a simple guardian, but also unable to coach and train him to be an agent.

Why the need to build this "project" around Oswald?

Locc wrote:My question is what makes it so necessary to even use Oswald or his name. This is the federal government for christsakes, couldn't they just create the necessary identity for him, either out of thin air, or through some other manner?They'd then likely place the boy with people who can legitimately further their aim. Not instead allow him to engage in behavior that attracts attention from local authorities with a person not only unable to look after him as a simple guardian, but also unable to coach and train him to be an agent.

Why the need to build this "project" around Oswald?

No need at all to call him "Oswald". I should have said "for the sake of argument... if the H & L theory basics are accepted, then at the very least, you would give the boy the same name prior to him taking over. Ideally, at the time of the takeover, you would also dispose of the original.

But the whole theory is just z grade schlock. It is not how intelligence agencies operated. Not even in the Cold War.

Hoover was worried about the birth certificate because it and a missing Oswald pointed to a known method -- simply knock someone off and use their ID to assume their life for espionage or criminal purposes. 

Another way to do this is just invent someone and used forged documents to provide a backstory to the "life" of that person.

Armstrong even tried to compare H & L to identical twins in Cuba 
who used their likeness for criminal activity. 

Looking at some the claims made...

The Oswald who turned up in the Soviet Union had tonsils according medical records. Impossible since Oswald had a tonsilectomy as a child.
But tonsils can indeed grow back. 


The body disinterred in 1981 had not had a mastoidectomy, but the real Oswald had such an operation as a child. In fact, the mastiod scar was noted in the 2nd autopsy.


We can calculate that the Marguerite who married Edwin Ekdahl was rather tall (as opposed to the shorter woman we see after the assassination) - as shown in a wedding photo with her standing next to her over 6' new husband. In fact, Ekdahl's height in his early twenties was recorded on travel documents as 5' 101/2" on one and 5' 11 on another. People do not get taller in middle age. They start to shrink. given this, he was more likely between 5' 9" and 5" 10" at the time of the photo. Marguerite meanwhile was younger and likely closer to her youthful height. She was also in  thick heeled shoes. In later years, she did start to shrink. 


Those are just examples. But the full list of the lies and deceptions is lengthy.

I can't figure out how to quote on a phone...
But, I was referring to the necessity by H&L.
If any type of project in this realm actually existed, would it be carried out in that manner?

I wouldn't believe so either.

To be clear, I do believe some "one" either legitimately impersonated Oswald, or used his identity in more of a fake name kind of way, although not as a school boy.

I'm fleshing out details, but that's the gist of my belief in that regard.

Locc wrote:I can't figure out how to quote on a phone...
But, I was referring to the necessity by H&L.
If any type of project in this realm actually existed, would it be carried out in that manner?

I wouldn't believe so either.

To be clear, I do believe some "one" either legitimately impersonated Oswald, or used his identity in more of a fake name kind of way, although not as a school boy.

I'm fleshing out details, but that's the gist of my belief in that regard.

It is a legitimate way to view the evidence, at least in MC. Not really convinced by any other alleged use of his name/background. At least not the examples I've looked at, which probably does not cover all of them. Will try and keep an open mind, even on those I have previously dismissed.

It's really great to see you here Mark 
Your work on Stripling was highly impressive. Meticulous and methodical.
By stripping the whole shoddy Stripling edifice down to it's component parts not only did you utterly eviscerate another piece of the H and L fairy tale, you exposed the H and L gang's standard methodology.
An uneasy amalgam of poor research and blatant hucksterism.
Josephs seemingly had some sort of emoticon-asm.. splattering the screen with his foul clapping seed for the delictation of his fellow cultsters.
I just pray to Armstrong the illuminati never add emoticon Viagra to the water, along with the fluoride and DMT
The references to Harvey Lee Oswald in Soviet documents/ correspondence are easily explained.
In both official and unofficial correspondence ( as well as in day to day conversation) the patronymic was used. Often interchangeably.
I've seen countless examples. Obviously someone presumed Harvey was his patronymic.
Likewise the Comrade Lee and Citizen Harvey.
Comrade and Citizen were also used interchangeably.
Going from memory Citizen was used in more formal situations. Or when addressing non party members.
This is just another example of the gang trying to turn the mundane into the sinister and conspiratorial.
Jimbo Baggins answer to Mark's research was utterly disgraceful.
Without even bothering to read Mark's incisive insightful research he just dumps some more of the same old guff.

It's already been dissected before ad nauseum, Alex. All you have to do is look for a thread on the EF called A Couple of Real Gems and it goes on and on and on and on....

Highlights from there are the sloping shoulders analysis, the "it's the contrast" analysis, and so on. Stevens is just one more in a long line who hasn't fallen for what it is - a huge farce and the saddest part of all is that there many, many suckers out there who actually fall for it.

JFK_Case wrote:It's already been dissected before ad nauseum, Alex. All you have to do is look for a thread on the EF called A Couple of Real Gems and it goes on and on and on and on....

Highlights from there are the sloping shoulders analysis, the "it's the contrast" analysis, and so on. Stevens is just one more in a long line who hasn't fallen for what it is - a huge farce and the saddest part of all is that there many, many suckers out there who actually fall for it.

It was discussed in that thread, including Tracy Parnell's shorter piece debunking it.

Mark's work takes it further. The Stripling evidence is now dead. We're just waiting for Jim to give the eulogy. 

You say, "the saddest part of all is that there many, many suckers out there who actually fall for it." And that is precisely why the results of the current thread are so important.

I do think you're being a bit unkind though in labeling all who get on board with it as suckers. People get attracted to cults for a number of reasons. Not all are naive or unintelligent.

Access to dancing emojis and cool headwear can be powerful motives.

The " Gems" thread contains some excellent analysis. Credit where credits due Tommy Graves was spot on. The key to disproving the " Harvey, sorry HARVEY was a native speaker" blarney is not dissecting his Russian but his ENGLISH.
Anyone with even a basic understanding of Russian language and grammar can tell right away that the one and only historical Lee Harvey Oswald was a native English speaker who learned to speak Russian. 
Once you know what to look for- sentence structure, lack of prepositions, word choices etc- it's easy to spot a native Russian speaker, even if they speak English incredibly well.
The propaganda the H and L gang pump out is as relentless as it is insidious.
And they're only too quick to claim " victory"
If a so called " H and L critic"  doesn't respond to a post Baggins or one of his drones start crowing." See they can't answer!! We win!!"
I have no fucking idea what they are up to, or what it is they think theyre achieving by bombarding thread after thread with the same old debunked garbage but it's about as  far as it's possible to get from truth seeking in one lifetime.
Marks work pretty much exposed the Stripling High " evidence" for the empty husk it it is. Dismantling the " evidence" piece by spurious piece..
With his deadly arsenal of emoticons and his hysteria tainted predeliction for accusing everyone who doubts the Holy Writ of Armstrong of being some sort of COINTELPRO operative the man in the fez brings all the poise and gravitas of a  yapping wire mouthed tweenybobber raving about the contents of Justin fucking Biebers pants to the " H and L debate".. 
The most evenly matched debate since a drunken Cardinal Fezzo Dr Fez, his arm wrapped possessively round the shoulders of a tousle haired street urchin, sidled up to Gallileo in a Rome tavern ." The earth doesn't revolve around the sun .theres t actually TWO Planet Earth's... 
Comparing the astute and erudite RC-D with Fetzer just further emphasises the H and L cults lack of self awareness.
Swinging Sandy's attempted rebuttals were embarrassingly risible.
The guy who measured his IQ was probably the same guy who sold him the magic potion..Rhino testicles mixed with dried baboon shit . " You know what they say about cowboys with 13 inch hats.."
As long as the cultists keep on pimping their bullshit I don't really see any alternative.
As Jeremy B rightly said if this case is ever going to be taken seriously again the tin foil hat squad must be exposed for the fools, charlatans and snake oil touts they undoubtedly are.
( Poor old Donnie Jeffries he found an ad online for a clinic " Wannabe as well hung as an African American?"it read..
He was found wandering around outside a Tijuana clip joint with a rope and a receipt from Senor Dick for 50 grand..
" Where's the lynching?" he sighed forlornly..Don Jeffries- the thinking woman's National Socialist and the thinking man's ku Klux krumpet)