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greg parker
greg parker
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Mon 29 Oct 2012, 5:16 pm
Mr. JENNER. But you do remember that you attempted to help him when he was struck in the mouth on that occasion; is that right?

Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; I think he even lost a tooth from that. I think he was cut on the lip, and a tooth was knocked out.
--Warren Commission: Vol. 8, Page 3

Ed Voebel's Warren Commission testimony that Lee Harvey Oswald lost a tooth while in the ninth grade at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans is pretty hard to refute, because in November 1954 Voebel snapped a photo of young Lee Harvey Oswald showing off his missing front tooth, a photo eventually purchased and published by the old Life magazine, and shown on page 804 of Vol. 16 of the Warren Commission's 26 volumes.

Life magazine editors must have been thrilled to find a photo suggesting Oswald was a hostile kid even in the ninth grade. But there is a serious problem now.

Due to efforts of British writer Michael Eddowes, Oswald's body was exhumed at its Texas gravesite in 1981. Photos and x-rays were taken, including photographs of the cadaver's teeth.

Less than a half hour into his stunning 1997 talk at JFK Lancer's November in Dallas conference, researcher John Armstrong displayed Ed Voebel's WC testimony, and then he showed the Life magazine photo of Oswald displaying his missing tooth.

Ed Voebel told the Warren Commission he first met Lee Oswald when Oswald fought with Johnny Neumeyer. After the fight Voebel got some ice for Lee and attempted to patch him up. Voebel told the Warren Commission, Volume 8, page 3, "I think he was cut on the lip, and a tooth was knocked out ". Shortly after the fight, which occurred in November, 1954, Voebel took this LIFE Magazine photograph of Lee Oswald showing the missing front tooth. But in 1981, when Oswald's body was exhumed, autopsied, photographed and x-rayed there were no missing or chipped teeth.. The boy in the LIFE Magazine photo with the missing tooth was not the person killed by Jack Ruby and autopsied in 1991. When I showed the LIFE Magazine photo of Oswald to Myra, she said this was not Harvey Oswald. Myra was correct, the LIFE magazine photo was Lee Oswald.

Ed Voebel knew Harvey Oswald in the 8th grade and Lee Oswald in the 9th grade. The HSCA was quite interested in talking to Voebel. However, Voebel died a few years earlier at age 31 at the Oshner Clinic, in New Orleans.
http://www.mindserpent.com/American_History/books/Armstrong/Tooth/Tooth.htm

Voebel's qualified statement about a tooth being knocked out was transformed into a positive statement of fact by Armstrong, with a much blown up photo taken by Voebel purportedly supporting this contention. Note however that Voebel also said he thought Oswald had cut his lip, and Armstrong is silent on that point because it does nothing to advance his theory.

Voebel's memory seems to have confused who actually did the damage, as well as the nature of the damage. He named Johnny Neumeyer as the person involved.

Here is what actually happened:

Mr. LIEBELER. Well, now you mentioned that he was always getting in fights?
Mrs. SMITH. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Will you tell us what you know about that?
Mrs. SMITH. One fight really impressed me, I guess because there was this boy--he wasn't going to Beauregard, this boy he had the fight with, and he was a little guy. I think his name was Robin Riley. He hit Lee, and his tooth came through his lip.
Mr. LIEBELER. Through the upper part of his lip?
Mrs. SMITH. Oh, gee, I don't know whether it was a bottom----
Mr. LIEBELER. But it actually tore the lip?
Mrs. SMITH. Yes; it actually tore the lip, and I remember--what is that boy's name?--the blond fellow that was on television that knew him so well?
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you thinking of Edward Voebel?
Mrs. SMITH. That is him.
Mr. LIEBELER. V-o-e-b-e-l?
Mrs. SMITH. He took him back in school, and I guess they kind of patched his lip up, but he was--he more or less kept to himself, he didn't mix with the other kids in school other than Voebel. He is the only one I remember.
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/smithb.htm

So Neumeyer never knocked out a tooth and cut Oswald's lip. It was a little guy named Robin Riley - and the tooth was not knocked out - it was put through Oswald's lip. This version of events is supported by the autopsy:

"Midline upper lip terminating at the vermilion margin is a 1/4 inch pale scar." http://www.jmasland.com/cat_content.asp?contentid=108&catid=68

And the photo taken by Voebel? It is a much blown up area of one part of the entire photo. Given the testimony of Mrs. Smith and the autopsy report which backs her up, what appears to be a missing tooth is no more than an artifact at best - a photo forgery at worst.
------------------

So who was the boy recalled by Myra DaRouse?


On one occasion we were practicing basketball in the schoolyard. Ed
Voebel comes running out and says, 'Ms. DaRouse! Ms. DaRouse! Come inside
quick!" So Dorothy Duvik [another teacher] and I went into the basement,
and there on the floor was Harvey, and an upright piano that had fallen,
[on] his legs from the waist down. So with the help of Ed Voebel [we]
pulled the piano up, and I asked him if he was hurt,
asked Harvey if he
was hurt, and he said no, he didn't think so.

How tall was Harvey? Myra said, "Well, I'm about 5'3" now, but I was
about 5'4" back then, and I would say he came up to about here
[indicating]. I would say he was about 4'8", 4'6", or about 4'8".
"


"That small -- 4'6" or 4'8"?"

"Yeah, he was little, scrawny" (70).

"Myra DaRouse saw Harvey every day at Beauregard in 1955. Myra's
description of a 4'6" or 4'8"

Ms. DaRouse takes issue with the Warren Report's characterization of
Oswald as a troublemaker and a scrapper. She says he was only in one
fight that she ever knew, an occasion when a small group of boys came
riding up on the bikes after school and ganged up on him and Ed Voebel.
She says he was knocked around pretty badly before she came upon the
scene and interceded. This occurred outside on an asphalt black-top
section of the school grounds. Knowing that Oswald was supposed to have
had a tooth knocked out the following school year, I nevertheless asked
her if this wasn't the occasion that he had the tooth knocked out. She
said, no, she didn't remember anything like that.


Ms. DaRouse said that Oswald spent a lot of time at the school library
before and after the school day.
She added that, this being a school
library, there weren't any books that would put any "funny ideas" in his
head. I said, "You mean political things?" "Right." I took the
opportunity to ask her if she'd ever heard Oswald say anything about
politics, Communism, or any such thing. "No, never." I asked if she
remembered the way he talked: whether he might have had a Southern
accent." Her first recollection was of his being very quiet and
soft-spoken, not talking much. She said that, of course, being from the
South, she herself wouldn't have noticed such an accent. "But you don't
remember him sounding like a Northerner?" I asked. "No."
http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JA/DR/.g-dr.html

Okay, so the boy Myra recalled was 4' 6" to 4'8" tall, not a fighter, had not had a tooth knocked out - but did have a piano fall on him, was quiet, soft spoken, spent a lot of time in the school library and hung out with Voebel.

Firstly, let's knock out the tooth nonsense. Her failure to recollect this happening to Oswald was because - as we have seen, it never did happen to Oswald. Nor did it happen to the boy she mistakenly recalled as Oswald. What about the piano incident? She has Voebel being the boy who reported the incident to her - yet he never mentioned it in his WC testimony - or anywhere else despite being pressed for all he could remember. Did he simply forget all about it? Possibly. But it is far more likely he never mentioned it simply because it did not happen to Oswald - it happened to the kid Myra is mistakenly recalling as Oswald. Who was that boy?

His name was Bobby Newman.

To find him, we simply have to go back to the testimony of Bennierita Smith:

Mrs. SMITH. He took him back in school, and I guess they kind of patched his lip up, but he was--he more or less kept to himself, he didn't mix with the other kids in school other than Voebel. He is the only one I remember. And they had this little boy--I think it was Bobby Newman--he used to take around with, but I don't remember too much about him either. I can remember he was little, he was short.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who was?
Mrs. SMITH. Bobby Newman.
Mr. LIEBELER. Bobby Newman?
Mrs. SMITH. But he was, I guess, the studious type. Well, it seemed to me. He was always studying, you know, reading books, and that is as far as--I don't know what his grades were, but as far as him mixing with other people, he didn't. You know, like when you go to school, more or less everybody has their own group. Well, there wasn't anybody he hung around with, except, like I said, Edward Voebel.


Bobby was "short", always studying, reading books and hung out with Voebel and Oswald, which matches Myra's recollection of "Harvey" perfectly. Sounds like Myra let herself become convinced that Bobby was really the mythical "Harvey".




Last edited by greg parker on Wed 31 Oct 2012, 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

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greg parker
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Tue 30 Oct 2012, 11:03 pm
Voebel's memory seems to have confused who actually did the damage, as well as the nature of the damage. He named Johnny Neumeyer as the person involved.

I was led astray by the presentation of Armstrong's thesis. Voebel never blamed Nuemeyer for the punch in question.

He told the FBI that the Noemeyer brothers "arranged" for someone from another school to come to Beauregard Junior High School and wait for Oswald the following day and when Oswald came out from school this other individual stepped out and hit Oswald in the mouth. Voebel remembered that when Oswald was struck his tooth pierced his lip." Voebel did not know the name of the boy, nor give any description.

In his testimony some months later:

Mr. VOEBEL. Yes, sir. Mike's mouth started bleeding, and when that happened, the whole sympathy of the crowd turned against Oswald for some reason, which I didn't understand, because it was two against one, and Oswald had a right to defend himself. In a way, I felt that this boy got what he deserved, and in fact, later on I found out that this boy that got his mouth cut had been in the habit of biting his lip. Oswald might have hit him on the shoulder or something, and the boy might have hit his lip, and it might have looked like Oswald hit him in the mouth, but anyway, somebody else came out and ran everybody off then, and the whole sympathy of the crowd was against Lee at that time because he had punched little Mike in the mouth and made his mouth bleed. I don't remember anything that happened after that, but I think I just went on home and everybody went their way, and then the next day or a couple of days later we were coming out of school in the evening, and Oswald I think, was a little in front of me and I was a couple of paces behind him, and I was talking with some other people, and I didn't actually see what happened because it all happened so quick.
Some big guy, probably from a high school--he looked like a tremendous football player--punched Lee right square in the mouth, and without him really knowing or seeing really who did it. I don't know who he was, and he ran off. That's when we ran after Lee to see if we could help him.
Mr. JENNER. He just swung one lick and ran?
Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; that's what they call passing the post. He passed the post on him.
Mr. JENNER. Passed the post, what's that?
Mr. VOEBEL. That's when somebody walks up to you and punches you. That's what's called punching the post, and someone passed the post on Lee at that time.
Mr. JENNER. You think that might have happened because of the squabble he had with the two Neumeyer boys a day or two before?
Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; I think that was what brought it all about. I think this was sort of a revenge thing on the part of the Neumeyer boys, so that's when I felt sympathy toward Lee for something like this happening, and a couple of other boys and I--I don't remember who they were, but they brought him back in the restroom and tried to fix him up, and that's when our friendship, or semi-friendship, you might say, began. We weren't really buddy-buddy, but it was just a friendship, I would say.

----------------------------
Here is Mrs Smith's testimony on this again:

Mrs. SMITH. One fight really impressed me, I guess because there was this boy--he wasn't going to Beauregard, this boy he had the fight with, and he was a little guy. I think his name was Robin Riley. He hit Lee, and his tooth came through his lip.
Mr. LIEBELER. Through the upper part of his lip?
Mrs. SMITH. Oh, gee, I don't know whether it was a bottom----
Mr. LIEBELER. But it actually tore the lip?
Mrs. SMITH. Yes; it actually tore the lip

And here is what is reported by the FBI:

She dis recall that one day at the school he had a fight. She though that the fight had been with a boy named Robin Reilly who at that time resided in the French Quarter. Mrs Smith thought Reilly had a sister Jean Reilly who is still possibly living in the French Quarter at the present time.

Mrs Smith stated Reilly did not attend Beauregard Junior High School. She recalls Reilly moved to Hollywood, California. She recalled she viewed him on the television show "George Montgomery Presents" where he played a small part as an actor...

Note the different spelling of the surname between the FBI and Warren commission.

The WC version was correct. Riley died on Jun 15, 1983 and was born Dec 1,1939 - thus the claim by Armstrong that he was older than Oswald is wrong.
http://www.hollywoodgravehunter.com/site/bio.php?bnum=1125

How to reconcile the difference between Mrs Smith's testimony and Voebel on the issue of a drescription of Oswald's assailant?

According to Voebel his was a big footballer type. According to Smith he was "a little guy".

I have to go with Smith on the basis that she was able to put a name to the person - and unlike Voebel, had not been friends with Oswald, so had no impulse to put the best spin on it.

You can catch his most famous movie here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aweCbLRVFEs however, I can't pinpoint which character he is...

Also on another note, Armstrong witness Myra daRouse told him:

"Well, I'm about 5'3" now, but I was about 5'4" back then,

So she had shrunk an inch... but bring that possibility up concerning Marguerite and watch all hell break loose.



_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

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greg parker
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Sun 03 May 2020, 10:59 am
Sandy, setting up straw men to knock down.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26512-arguments-against-the-harvey-lee-theory-the-missing-tooth/

I have set up a forum for debates. The rules are laid out there so that fairness is  ensured.

Come on over, Sandy, and debate me instead of your pieces of straw.

The H & L crowd have historically been a cowardly bunch -- baiting me at the Ed Forum until I responded in kind and then running to the mods to get me kicked off. Maybe you can break the mold?

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

https://gregrparker.com
greg parker
greg parker
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Sun 03 May 2020, 11:44 am
My rebuttal to Sandy's take on the dental records can be found here and as a bonus, includes further destruction of the missing tooth at Beauregard.

https://gregrparker.wixsite.com/the-new-disease/post/adventures-in-cold-war-military-dentistry-the-associated-paperwork-a-subplot-in-the-ongoing-b

And despite Jimbo Baggins rhetorically asking "Didn't Mr. Parker once claim that liquid sealant was a prosthesis and that the sealant was the "prosthesis" that failed?" what we actually find in my piece is that sealants and prosthetics had the same basic purpose and were therefore lumped together on the form. In short, having a prosthetic that failed or was likely to fail within  12 months would make you ineligible for any overseas tour. The same goes with a sealant. If you have sealant that has failed, or is likely to fail within 12 months - no overseas tour.

But once again, they can and do mischaracterize my arguments, since ensuring I got booted from the 13" Head forum. It is there only hope of defeating them.  

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

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alex wilson
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Sun 03 May 2020, 7:43 pm
The Swinging Cowboy sounds like he's having a fucking meltdown!!
It must be tough out there in the Utah desert...in his 13 inch hat..under the burning sun...with Armstrong's chupacabra slithering up his leg.
I wonder if he gets the voices in his head mixed up occasionally..
" For lo it came t pass an angel of the Lord with a dodgy prosthesis descended..."
" And so the angel of the LORD saith t HARVEY take these golden tablets t Brother Kudlaty at Stripling High"
Swinging Sandy probably sees some profound theological meaning behind all these doppelgangers...
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Vinny
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Sun 03 May 2020, 7:58 pm
After all the years of preaching the Harvey and Lee doctrine, Hargrove has managed to convert only two people. Sandy and John Butler.
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Sun 03 May 2020, 8:41 pm
And that says it all Vinny...elegant and emphatically..with the simple logic that often accompanies the profoundest truths-
If, after 20 plus years of intensive hucksterism, deploying every deceitful shoddy underhanded method and shifting the goalposts more times than the Vasily Stalin XI in the final of the Josef Stalin Memorial Cup Final against the Trotskyite Zinovievite Traitorous Scum XI...after all that effort...all that duplicity and all the utterly shameless lying..all you have t show for it is a dull witted plodder in a 13 inch hat and a man with the photo analysis skills of a blind cognitively impaired Amazonian tribesman...well i think it's time Jimbo Baggins should give doppelganging a break...get himself an e meter and a nice black suit.
Armstrong knows after the coronavirus lockdown there'll b plenty of vulnerable frightened people needing their thetans...whatever the Scientologists do t naughty thetans...hey Larry Trotter what do Scientologists do t naughty thetans? Someone as articulate, out going and charismatic as Larry T has almost certainly bumped in t a Scientologist or two skulking about outside YMCA buildings, venereal disease clinics or deserted bus stations in the dead of night.
Just look at Jimbo Baggins!! He has brainwashed cultish written all over him...that fucking beard!! A cross between an Amish with alopecia and the merkin Pete Lemkin bought when he decided t join the Prague Swingers Limbo Dancing Club..
Shudder...let's just say ole Pete was caught in no mans land...an area sexologists call the " Baggins Grey bush"...he couldn't quite get it down enough but he sure as fuck couldn't get it up!!
Armstrong save us all from fat headed know it all twats in 13 inch hats( hey it rhymes!! Maybe i can be a poet like Jim Hackett II after all) and shifty eyed deviants with beards that look like Gandalf the Greys after an infestation of pubic lice.
Baggins and Swinging Sandy don't give a fuck about the assassination really...THAT'S what fucking angers me..they've turned the 13 inch head forum into a recruiting ground for a tawdry cult. A cult i may add whose central premise waa debunked nearly 20 fucking years before the Great God set out on his holy pilgrimage t China t get the Book published..
Let's put on our tin foil hats for a minute and pretend were Don Jeffries(...first H and L and now COVID 19? Coincidence or Conspiracy?
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alex wilson
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Wed 06 May 2020, 12:57 am
Bravo Barto!! Keep showing up these shysters for what and who they are.
Baggins is an incorrigible huckster , Butler is just a fucking joke. An absolute laughing stock. That they would stoop so low, we're talking nearly 9.5 on the Dickie Hooke scale here, just shows how desperate they are.
For all his bluster and braggadocio Swinging Sandy like the Fez before him is probably crushingly insecure.
Baggins is deploying the old lovebomb technique.
Massaging his bloated but fragile ego.
Baggins obviously yearns t b the H and L cults David Miscavage t Armstrong's wise aloof and enigmatic L Ron Hubbard.
Baggins sure knows the hucksters golden adage- people who want t believe can be made t believe anything.
He's using the 13 inch head forum as a recruiting ground for a cult.
A thoroughly disreputable cult.
Apart from endlessly hustling and spamming his H and L garbage Baggins doesn't give a fuck about the assassination.
It's actually quite unsettling watching him in action. Circling some wide eyed newbie like the rare Sanibel grey bearded jellyfish..his tentacles wobbling like Pete Lemkin after he's stuck his knob into the toaster.
Baggins has no respect for himself or anyone else.
As Barto rightly says it's never any new research..it's the same old debunked garbage vomited up again.
Just imagine on a grimy street corner somewhere deep in Sanibels notorious red light district.
Across from the dilapidated old porno cinema that's showing a double feature of Shaving Ryan's Privates and My Stretch of Texas Ground.
Baggins Butler and Mr S Cowboy esq greasy sleazy cafe.
Single red light bulb flickering above the filthy windows.
Baggins Meat and Two Veg Bistro..
Sanibels leading erogenous vegetarian restaurant and massage parlour.
In the kitchen stirring a pot of gruel like sludge with the yellow misshapen talon he's just this moment removed from his discolored y fronts..having spent the last 19 minutes energetically scratching his monstrous red pus filled boil, wheezing and grunting, a cigarette butt clinging desperately t his thin bloodless lips..
" Yeh" he cackles" this'll do just fine...hey Sandy stop trying t chat that fucking inflatable Phyllis Diller up, it's just a doll you dumb bastard..take two helpings of this over t table 2...The Education Forum Special...some of Stevie Gaals cheese and Largactil casserole reheated..i added a little extra flavouring myself...tell the dumb mofos it's cavaire from Tsar Nicholass own kitchen...those stupid bastards can't tell the difference anyway...last week i sold that new guy...the one that looks like the Wicked Witch of the West did a shit on Totos decomposed remains, a handful of my herpes scabs...told him they were Marilyn Monroes last tampons...paid me $20000..he's a member of Ralphie Cinques OIC so the fucker will swallow absolutely anything...oh by the way Sandy talking about swallowing absolutely anything if you get within a Sanibel inch of Old Ralphie I'll shove this here doppelganger so far up your ass it'll be more than just your shoulders that are sloping"
greg parker
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Wed 06 May 2020, 12:46 pm
ron ecker wrote:I believe I can clear up the question of what "FAILED 5-5-58" means in Oswald's military dental record. About an hour ago I emailed a copy of that record to my sister-in-law, who is a dentist. She emailed right back and said that she is "very confident" that FAILED 5-5-58 means that Oswald "failed" to keep an appointment on 5-5-58. Makes perfect sense! You can see in the list of three treatments that Oswald received that there is no treatment listed for 5-5-58 because... well, because he didn't show up! She says that the missed appointment was likely for the treatment that he in fact received a few days later and is listed, which was a filling.
Thank you linesmen, thank you ball-boys, thank you Ron.

I believe that is game, set, match.

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Wed 06 May 2020, 1:01 pm
I converted the images to Sepia to see if they might clear things up. I don't think they did but still here are the images in case anyone would like to have a look.

Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard 15886710
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on Wed 06 May 2020, 1:03 pm
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Wed 06 May 2020, 1:08 pm
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on Wed 06 May 2020, 1:09 pm
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Wed 06 May 2020, 1:11 pm
Harvey and Lee: failed 5/5/20

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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Wed 06 May 2020, 2:30 pm
Jake Sykes wrote:Harvey and Lee: failed 5/5/20
lol!  Cruel but fair.

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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Wed 06 May 2020, 3:50 pm
Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Oswald18
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Wed 06 May 2020, 7:17 pm
Dear Mr Armstrong,

I hereby tender my resignation. I'm never going to live this one down.

Yours sincerely,

J. Hargrove, esq.
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Wed 06 May 2020, 9:33 pm
[ltr]Let's really hammer this sucker down tighter than Judifski's purse.[/ltr]

From an FBI interview with Voebel dated Nov 25, 1963

Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard 997436_888e0bdeb3fa4a0bbd08165bd215a4b7~mv2
From the Warren Commission testimony of Mrs. Bennierita Smith:

Mr. LIEBELER. Will you tell us what you know about that?
Mrs. SMITH. One fight really impressed me, I guess because there was this boy--he wasn't going to Beauregard, this boy he had the fight with, and he was a little guy. I think his name was Robin Riley. He hit Lee, and his tooth came through his lip.

From the FBI interview with Dimitri Bouzon, another student.

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Mr Larsen insists that Lillian Murret is a H & L witness, but he could not be wronger. On this, he is simply the wrongiest.  

From Lillian's testimony:

"Another time they were coming out of school at 3 o'clock, and there were boys in back of him and one of them called his name, and he said, "Lee," and when he turned around, this boy punched him in the mouth and ran, and it ran his tooth through the lip, so she [Marguerite] had to go over to the school and take him to the dentist, and I paid for the dentist bill myself, and that's all I know about that, and he was not supposed to have started any of that at that time."

HardlyLee.nut's only was the sole person to claim a tooth was knocked out - and that was not his original claim. His original claim was the same as at least 3 other witnesses - his tooth went through his lip.

As for the classroom photo:

- it has never been established that the photo was taken between the time of the fight and when Lee was picked up and taken to a dentist.

- Someone with a functioning brain at the 13" Head Forum suggested the dark area between his lips may be the cap off the pen he has in his hand. That is surely a distinct possibility. I have long thought it may be that Ed or Lee simply blacked out the front teeth on the photo - the type of thing boys that age are known to do.

Voebel was not a good witness. The proof of that, apart from the tooth testimony - is that he claimed the person was a "some big guy, probably from a high school--he looked like a tremendous football player--punched Lee right square in the mouth..."

But we know from the far more reliable  Bennierita Smith and Dimitri Bouzon that the person who punched Lee was a smaller, slightly boy named Robin Riley who went on to have a limited Hollywood career - meaning I was able to confirm his from his bio at IMDB  https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0727160/

The USMC records


Mr Larsen made a great song and dance that I suggested the prosthetics were lumped in with sealants and the like.

This is a straight copy and paste from one of my other websites cos I know they have trouble clicking links.

[ltr]section III of that initial paperwork which can be found on page 31 of this Warren Commission Exhibit[/ltr]

[ltr]Here we find that on November 1, 1956, Oswald had a cleaning prophylaxis and sealing and was given instructions on maintaining this work.[/ltr]

[ltr]In Section I of this same form, found on page 30 of the above document, we have the following information:

Type of exam: Type 2[/ltr]

[ltr]Dental classification: 3
[/ltr]


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[ltr]So what do those codes mean?[/ltr]

[ltr]Exam type 2- Oral Examination - routine exam[/ltr]

[ltr]Dental Classification:[/ltr]


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As we can see, Oswald was classification 3. What did it mean in terms of his service? It meant he was unfit for overseas deployment until the dental issues were resolved.

[ltr]You were placed in class 3 if any of the following applied:[/ltr]

[ltr]Dental caries, tooth fractures, or defective restorations where the condition extends beyond the dentinoenamel junction and causes definitive symptoms; dental caries with moderate or advanced extension into dentin; and defective restorations not maintained by the patient[/ltr]

[ltr]Interim restorations OR prostheses that cannot be maintained for a 12-month period.[/ltr]

[ltr]This includes teeth that have been restored with permanent restorative materials but for which protective coverage is indicated.[/ltr]

[ltr]Chronic oral infections or other pathologic lesions including: Pulpal or periapical pathology requiring treatment.Lesions requiring biopsy or awaiting biopsy report.Emergency situations requiring therapy to relieve pain, treat trauma, treat acute oral infections, or provide timely follow-up care (e.g., drain or suture removal) until resolved. Temporary mandibular disorders requiring active treatment.[/ltr]

[ltr]Definition of non-metallic permanent restoration:[/ltr]

[ltr]includes filled and unfilled resin, glass ionomer cement, and pit and fissure sealants[/ltr]

[ltr]According to Larsen, the 1956 records belonged to "Harvey" while the 1958 records, seeming to show a new prosthethis was required, belonged to Lee.[/ltr]

[ltr]What it really shows is that the two records belonged to the same person: Lee Oswald. We know this because in 1956, Oswald was made a "class 3" which includes anyone with a restoration or prosthethis which cannot be maintained for 12 months, or has become defective. Recall that Oswald in 1956 was given sealants and instructed on how to maintain them.

Clearly, for simplification and space, sealants and prosthetics were lumped in together on the forms and the failure noted in 1958 was for the sealant - not any prosthetic for a tooth that was never knocked out to start with.[/ltr]

[ltr]What has come to light through this is that Oswald, a "class 3" was unfit for overseas deployment. He was not classified as fit until July 10, 1957.[/ltr]


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[ltr]What's more, this failure would place him back in class 3, making him unfit again for overseas deployment, and this may have impacted the decision to send him home. It would certainly be the reason for the fillings done at that time.[/ltr]

I agree with the new info that "failed 5/5/58" is likely to be a note that Lee failed to attend - in the scenario above, Oswald probably did attend and it was noted that the sealant put in in 1956 had failed and a new appointment was made to come back and have it redone. Both of these explanations are far superior to Mr Larsen's desperate attempt to put a prosthetic tooth in the poor guys mouth.

I await the HardlyLee.Nut website being updated accordingly.


Last edited by greg parker on Thu 07 May 2020, 12:27 am; edited 2 times in total

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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Wed 06 May 2020, 10:06 pm
Ladies, gentlemen, doppelgangers and gasmasked basement dwellers i give you Mr Greg R Parker...the Hannibal Smith of JFK assassination research!!
So ends another episode of the ROKC team..Greg leaning out the window of the ROKC mobile...chewing his ACME Havana '63 Deluxe Cuban cigar..rolled between the golden thighs of delectable golden haired Latino nymphettes and with enough girth t keep even the most voracious Sanibel hausfrau satisfied...chuckling wryly as he looks back on the smouldering ruins of yet another doppelganger related fantasy..
Jimbo Baggins, his beard twitching like the zombiefied remains of Stevie Gaals favourite chupacabra...standing on the grimy garbage strewn sidewalk outside Baggins Meat and Two Veg Bistro..shaking one fist in impotent fury while using the other t caress his unfeasibly malodorous hemorrhoids..that hang down under his filthy apron like a bunch of grapes freshly plucked from Trine Days experimental erotic winery...
Think Chateaux Rothschild 1904 mixed with Chernobyl spring water and gobules of Juddufkis greenish phlegm...
" But Jimbo" Swinging Sandy whines, swatting the swarms of CIA trained bluebottles with his 13 inch hat " we still got Bolton Ford, right? And the two Marguerites...and remember i proved Klein's couldn't have banked Oswalds money order"
" Shut up you drooling cretin and for fucks sake pull up your flies" Baggins growls as he watches the ROKC mobile vanish into the distance..
" Get inside and put some more PCP and aftershave into the Baggins special sauce"
" Yes master" Swinging Sandy mumbles obligingly.
Careful t keep his flies resolutely unzipped..
Just then John Butler sticks his head out of the trash..brandishing a tatty dogeared copy of Altgens 6.." I've got it sussed this time!! It's the girl who played Darlene in Roseanne wearing the Lee Oswald facemask!! Sure she wasn't even born at the time but the CIA must have used the time travelling supermice Judy Baker invented t carry her back through time!!"
" Get inside the fucking restaurant you useless twat" Baggins sighs
" And for the last fucking time John when you're outside will you put some fucking trousers on...the stench and the unseemly dangliness is scaring the pigeons...and the doppelgangers!! I nearly caught a Marilyn Monroe doppelganger in my doppelganger trap..."
Poor old Jimbo Baggins...
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Wed 06 May 2020, 10:21 pm
Well done Greg!

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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

on Thu 07 May 2020, 10:41 am
Thanks Alex and Bart.

It seems another poster in that thread has independently come to the same conclusion I did. 


Greg Doudna wrote:"The third notation to the right of the first two, now back up on the topmost line again where blank space again permitted, notes "failed 5-5-58". While Ron Ecker's sister-in-law dentist suggested that might mean a no-show appointment, I have a different suggestion: it means "the filling failed" (reported 5-5-58). Having had fillings fail myself in the past shortly after they were done, that seems to me to be a reasonable reading of meaning of the single word "failed" following the notation "tooth #13 occlusal" which is verified to have been an amalgam filling. Not too complicated: the "13/O" indicates the filling, and "failed" indicates it failed, that is, that filling failed."

The only difference is that Mr Doudna has referred to fillings while I referred to sealants. Both of these would reasonably be lumped in with prosthetics on a form since they serve similar functions. But I happily concede it was more likely a reference to a filling.

_________________
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-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
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Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard Empty Re: Armstrong's Magic Tooth and the Facts about "Harvey" at Beauregard

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