The Vacant House

First topic message reminder :

Is there any way to determine who owned 2511 West Fifth St. in 1963? Is it not a little odd that there was an empty house sitting right next to ground zero in Irving that was never investigated, never searched, and barely even mentioned in the official record? The only two references I know of are from (1) the 12/4/64 report of Irving Postal Inspectors Nieohwner and McCoy; and (2) the WC testimony of James Hosty: 





Mr. STERN. Can you show us from Exhibit 430 approximately where you parked your car that day if you recall? 

Mr. HOSTY. I don't recall specifically. I do recall that her station wagon was parked in the driveway. There was another car in front of the house, and it is my recollection that I parked, perhaps, here.
There is another house right next door here which was vacant, and I believe I parked in front of the vacant house right next door. 

Here's the vacant house right in the center of the photo behind the big tree:



This is just something that has bugged me for a while and was wondering if anyone knows or knows how to find anything out about the property.

http://phorum.dallashistory.org/read.php?2,704

Google groups discussion

Soooo if Robbie Sharber is there in 61 and again in 64 it may be Robbie's house (rented out for couple years?)

So the ‘64 Polk Directory shows Norman at the house but the ‘64 Coles shows Sharber? Am I reading that right? I suppose that could make sense if Sharber rented the house to Norman…

According to Tony Krome, the Irving directory info was collected in December ‘64. If that’s true, it seems possible, albeit a bit odd considering the circumstances, that Norman moved into the house in December.

I’ll try to dig up some info on Ancestry.com or something when I get a chance. It also might be worth checking opencorporates to see if the names appear on any registered businesses. Hell it might even be worth doing a name check in the directories to see where these guys were in previous/subsequent years. You never know…

Another thing that might be interesting at some point is to check if the house was ever listed in the yellow pages under rental properties - like if there was any third party company managing the rentals, etc.

61 Dallas dir.

Do we have a middle initial or anything for Tom Norman? It’s tough to find anything cause it’s such a common name, plus there are a million Norman Thomases, including the famous socialist that Allen Dulles randomly asked Ruth Paine about in her WC testimony.

I found a Thomas H. Norman running the “Town Investment Corp.” in Texas in the right timeframe, but the address is a bank in Houston so it probably isn’t the right guy:

https://opencorporates.com/officers/478060259

No initial found... sorry.

Ed.Ledoux wrote:No initial found... sorry.

Norman’s not quite as interesting as I first thought. The canvassing months for the ‘64 Irving directory were actually May-June 1964, so Norman could’ve moved into the house well after the assassination. 

I’d still like to know more though cause it could potentially lead to the actual property owner. One think I noticed that’s kind of interesting is Ruth Paine testified that their house was a rent-to-own type deal.

I wonder if 2511 was the same type of set-up, or if it had the same owner/property manager renting it out. 

Mrs. PAINE - Oh, no; we stayed at a small apartment for several weeks looking around and then rented for a year, and then we purchased the house we have been renting. 
Mr. JENNER - So you purchased that and moved in in 1960, is that about right? 
Mrs. PAINE - We first moved into it in the fall of '59. 
Mr. JENNER - You rented it and then purchased it. 
Mrs. PAINE - The same house; yes. 

Nicely done FNG!
Good leads to follow up.
Yes looking like track housing by developer, whom could hold properties, rent/rto/or sell them.
I recall looking into some of this 20 years ago... but it was on Lancer... poof.

Very astute there FNG

The Sharber Coles 64 info looks to be in error, but we know he was there next to the Paines circa 1960. Probably renting, then he moves away and is verified to be at another address to at least 1965.

Someone moves in to 2511 after Sharber, and we know that someone's phone number is the same as the 2439 Randle number.

That missing 1962 criss cross may shed light.

If they managed to hide, for 60 years, the fact that Dial Ryder had direct connections to 2434, they could have done the same with 2511.

Mrs. PAINE - Oh, no; we stayed at a small apartment for several weeks looking around and then rented for a year, and then we purchased the house we have been renting. 
Mr. JENNER - So you purchased that and moved in in 1960, is that about right? 
Mrs. PAINE - We first moved into it in the fall of '59. 
Mr. JENNER - You rented it and then purchased it. 
Mrs. PAINE - The same house; yes. 

I love timelines. They can, if we treat them carefully, give up valuable clues. If X and Y are similar and happen simultaneously, chances are good it is genuine coincidence.

But if A, B, C, D, & E all happen in proximity and seem possibly related, things swing in favor of some or all of those not happening by simple random chance. 

Fall of '59: Paines start renting a small suburban ranch style home. Around this time, Oswald is attempting to renounce citizenship and defect.

Fall of '60: Paines decide to buy the rental property. Mikhail Platovsky is captured in Minsk and executed. He is a REDSOX agent parachuted in with one part of his mission being recruitment of "morally loose elements". Presumably targeting those who could be either blackmailed or be willingly induced to act as "baits".   The CIA ceases the Soviet side of the program. After the fall, Oswald begins actively seeking a  bride and making plans for returning to the US.

March 17, 1961: Oswald meets Marina.

April 30, 1961: Oswald marries Marina.

Fall of '61: Marina takes a solo 3 week vacation in hot tourist destination Kharkov. This is in the Ukraine where the KGB has at least one fake American town, complete with little suburban ranch style homes just like those in Irving, in which to train agents soon to be relocating. According to Marina, she is visiting her aunt - who is NOT HOME, but has hired others to stay there and cook and clean. Wha???? 

June 14, 1962: The Oswald family, now including baby June,is in Fort Worth staying with Oswald family members. 

August 10, 1962: The young family move into their own rental.

Fall of '62: The Oswald's meet George DeM. Marina and baby June move in with Elana Hall. The Paines separate.

February 22, 1963: The Oswalds meet Ruth Paine. Between the fall of '62 and now, the Oswald's move a few times - not always together as Marina stays with various members of the White Russian community

Fall of '63: Marina due to have second child and is living with Ruth Paine in Irving, who now has a vacant house next door. Various forces of nature conspire to open up a vacancy at the TSBD - a temp vacancy reserved for a Marxist Marine with an undesirable discharge. JFK is assassinated - allegedly by a sniper firing from the 6th floor of the TSBD. 

Just a thought. If that vacant house was a rental and the Oswald's were looking to move to their own place again per ruth testimony and other evidence, wouldn't a solution to suit all have been for the Oswald's to rent it?

Sure it may have been more expensive than a oak cliff apartment, but Marina could have started.charging ruth for baby sitting and Russian lessons

Ya think da coppers woulda axed Sharber ...but nah

"Do you see what I see?"

Ed, Robbie Sharber was at 1821 Mimosa Ave in Plano as of Aug 1963, and was in same place in 1965. Almost certainly knew the Paines in 1960/1 as neighbours. If we can find who moved in after Sharber at 2511, we may hit the jackpot.

Barbara Jean Sharber To Wed Frank James Schrah Mr and Mrs. Robbie M. Sharber, 1821 Mimosa Ave, announce the approaching marriage of their daughter, Barbara Jean, to Frank James Schrah on July 3. at 7 30 p.m.
The wedding will be solemnized in the Church of Christ The groom resides with his ber Mrs. Schrah. at 1206 14th St. The bride is a student at Plano High School and the groom is employed at TI


Got a screen shot of this '65 paper Tony?
May 19, 1965
Plano Daily Star-Courier from Plano, Texas • Page 4

The one I had saved on file is July 7th 1965. Shows Robbie at Mimosa

It maybe just me but TI, Texas Instruments, has come up a lot as of late...

Anyways I have it nailed, will give a go.
Thanks Tony.

Robbie M. Sharber

For some reason, Robbie not with this lot;

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/76474295/ellis-m.-sharber

Just fount Robbie at Mimosa by MAY 1962

Now JAN 1962

Looking like a 12 months rental lease for our mystery Randle phone number people at 2511, that includes SEPTEMBER 1961.

Robbie oddly refuse to be connected to Irving... he's connected to bloody every other suburb.

Dont know why he has no obit nor grave, nor anyone else claiming him in an obit. I went through every obit by a shaber.

Surely Robbie, after the 22nd Nov, mentioned to family and friends, that he lived next door to the Paines. Or did he keep quiet? hmm

Good question Tony.
I called every Sharber and relative and could not find one alive and with a tele.
Grandkids are about all thats left.

New leads Ed,

In 1970, a Robert B Cassel lived at 1203 W 4th Irving. I think its our man

"The 1963 criss cross shows Robert Cassel at 2511 W. 5th St."

He had a son Jerry E Cassel who was 17 in 1970, just done army combat training

Jerry E Cassel married a Melisa Sprague in 1974, could be same guy, born 1952

The son Jerry I believe is alive, and maybe Jerry Castle at 6048 Circle in Fort Worth, not sure


There's a Robert Burton Cassel, but looks like different guy;

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/39866881/robert-burton-cassel

This guy was at 742 Cindy Lane with wife Billie Louise McDowell as of Oct 1962