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katewillard
katewillard
Posts : 6
Join date : 2021-03-08

Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman Empty Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman

Mon 21 Nov 2022, 1:54 pm
Hello Everyone:

Can anyone explain the orientation of this photograph?

It was apparently taken in Dealey Plaza by Dallas Morning News photographer Johnny Flynn and is purported to show the park bench where a young African American couple were seated having lunch and witnessed the assassination.

This young couple was seen by Marilyn Sitzman who was standing behind Abraham Zapruder, steadying him as he readied himself to film the motorcade. Upon witnessing the shooting, they apparently ran from the location of the bench leaving their lunch wrappers and coke bottles behind. 

In her interview with Josiah Thompson in November 1966 Sitzman said she recalled noticing the couple who were located to her right.  Her right was the side where the concrete wall ran along the perimeter of the parking lot and where it met the picket fence.

The Flynn photograph, it has been suggested, is showing two people (investigators?) examining lunch wrappers on a park bench thereby supporting Sitzman's 1966 recollection.  However, the photograph depicts several buildings, street signs, both on the ground and above (or perhaps those above were traffic lights??) across the way that are not in a location (as far as I'm aware) to be seen from the location of the bench that Sitzman saw and later described to Thompson.  

Sitzman said the bench was facing towards the street.  That it was parallel to where she was standing.  So, it must have been facing the street at an angle. Therefore, if those depicted examining the bench in the Flynn photograph are examining the bench that Sitzman saw on her right shouldn't the background of the photograph be showing something like trees, the concrete wall, the parking lot or railroad yard perhaps part of the picket fence or (depending on the camera angle) even some part of the grassy areas in the centre of plaza instead of these buildings?

Can anyone orient this photograph, please?  To me it appears this photo is of another bench located somewhere else in the Plaza (it's conceivable anyone eating their lunch in the plaza may have left their wrappers behind upon hearing the shots not just the young couple seated near Marilyn Sitzman). I know photographs can be tricky and perspectives altered when viewed on a 2-dimensional plane.  The angles of the plaza along with the angle of the camera can also make landmarks appear where they are actually are not.

Kate


Last edited by katewillard on Mon 21 Nov 2022, 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
katewillard
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Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman Empty Re: Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman

Mon 21 Nov 2022, 1:55 pm
I can see that my photograph attachment hasn't posted.  I'll try to post it again.
katewillard
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Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman Empty Re: Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman

Mon 21 Nov 2022, 2:01 pm
Okay....I can see now that the pic is too big.  If I can find a reduced version, I'll post it.  Well, that was a bit of an anti-climax LOL

If anyone knows of the photo I'm referring to and you have a copy that is the right size for posting, can you please post it.

Many thanks!

Kate
katewillard
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Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman Empty Re: Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman

Mon 21 Nov 2022, 2:39 pm
Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman Https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbc292349-07c7-43a0-ba55-51860711ee2e_602x766
greg_parker
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Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman Empty Re: Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman

Mon 21 Nov 2022, 9:08 pm
Hey Kate,

I'm really shit at what you're asking for, but I would be amazed if one of the following couldn't help. I'm looking at you  @barto , @Jake_Sykes@Mick_Purdy, & @Ed.Ledoux. Maybe if  @StanDane looks in, he might also be able to help.

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StanDane
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Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman Empty Re: Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman

Tue 22 Nov 2022, 12:59 am
Just a quick look seems to show the bench oriented more north-south facing and west. The buildings to the left appear to be along Houston St. Here's a few photos that show the layout. These and other pictures might help to pin it down. 

https://archive.org/details/morejfkpictures/Dealey-Plaza-Drawing-Motorcade.jpg
 
https://archive.org/details/morejfkpictures/Dealey_Plaza_Aerial_View_Circa_1967.jpg
 
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/aerial-view-of-dealey-plaza-in-dallas-texas-where-president-john-f-picture-id615320526?s=594x594

PS: I couldn't get these to load directly here. Out of practice and my skills are slipping.
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Chris_Davidson
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Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman Empty Re: Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman

Tue 22 Nov 2022, 11:01 am
Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman FlynnComp
katewillard
katewillard
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Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman Empty Re: Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman

Tue 22 Nov 2022, 1:40 pm
That's great -- thanks, guys!

That explains it.

Sitzman had said the seat was parallel to her and was "facing the street".  It gave me the impression it was facing towards her rather than away from her. The seat was actually facing west at an angle (away from her) and the camera angle is north to south. 

Now it makes sense.

Cheers,
Kate
Jake_Sykes
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Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman Empty Re: Park Bench in Dealey Plaza near Marilyn Sitzman

Tue 22 Nov 2022, 2:29 pm
I was going to post a platte map of the plaza and draw a line from the bench location on through the Stemmons sign, which appears in the photo, to show that the buildings that are in the photo make sense from that angle, but you've all figured it out already. With the bench at an angle, which I think it needed to be to fit in that narrow space along side the walkway without actually blocking the walkway, it all makes good sense.

I wonder if the FBI ever tracked down those folks on the bench and interviewed them. Whether or not they did, we'll never know who they were.

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Vinny
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Thu 24 Nov 2022, 9:45 pm
https://jfkfacts.substack.com/p/the-couple-on-the-grassy-knoll

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