- Roger Odisio
- Posts : 155
Join date : 2017-10-02
Mary Ferrell Foundation lawsuit
Wed 07 Dec 2022, 1:21 am
I don't know if everyone has seen the recent post by at EV by Bill Simpich, lead lawyer on the lawsuit:
""Roger Odisio is doing great things by letting people know many of the details about our lawsuit. Many of the aspects of the suit (and the suit itself) can also be reviewed by visiting the MFF website.
He writes: "....much will be lost if you don't push for NARA to update the Collection using the full ARRB definition, besides cleaning up the Collection, and following what the JFK Act requires NARA and the President to do before allowing record disclosure to be postponed."
I want to assure Roger and everyone that we are pushing for NARA to update the Collection on exactly that basis - and that we want documents added to the Collection from all relevant entities, public and private.
As stated in the complaint, it is our position that NARA has the power to identify new assassination records and add them to the Collection:
"53. Defendant NARA is the successor agency to the ARRB, and has assumed responsibility for ensuring compliance with the Act. (footnote 62) The ministerial non-discretionary duties include following up with agencies to complete outstanding ARRB search requests, to search for additional information and Assassination Records as well as to direct agencies to locate lost and missing records as their existence becomes known."
Footnote 62 refers to 65 FR 39550 (June 27, 2000). This section states: "The Assassination Records Review Board was established by the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 (106 Stat. 3443). At the termination of the Review Board on September 30, 1998, its records were transferred to the Archivist of the United States. NARA continues to maintain and supplement the collection under the provisions of the Act. NARA is, therefore, the successor in function to this defunct independent agency."
Together with NARA's acknowledgement that it can add records to its JFK
Collection, this is good news.
Perhaps we should start seriously thinking about what information NARA doesn't have that it should.
My first thought is what was Allen Dulles doing at the Farm his CIA hangout, on the weekend of the murder. I have this image of him shouting into the phone to the people working on the coverup, kill that little bastard before he can get a lawyer. How did David Talbott find out about it? Is there any way to get more info about it? NARA should have an Allen Dulles wing in the Collection.
Re: Mary Ferrell Foundation lawsuit
Wed 07 Dec 2022, 6:15 am
Dulles https://drive.google.com/drive/u/1/search?q=Dulles
Thanks to Malcolm Blunt.
Thanks to Malcolm Blunt.
_________________
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Prayer-Man.com
Re: Mary Ferrell Foundation lawsuit
Wed 07 Dec 2022, 10:10 am
Yes, that is Bill Simpich. Do you see any of the others saying similar? No? Nor are you likely to.Roger Odisio wrote:
I don't know if everyone has seen the recent post by at EV by Bill Simpich, lead lawyer on the lawsuit:
""Roger Odisio is doing great things by letting people know many of the details about our lawsuit. Many of the aspects of the suit (and the suit itself) can also be reviewed by visiting the MFF website.
He writes: "....much will be lost if you don't push for NARA to update the Collection using the full ARRB definition, besides cleaning up the Collection, and following what the JFK Act requires NARA and the President to do before allowing record disclosure to be postponed."
I want to assure Roger and everyone that we are pushing for NARA to update the Collection on exactly that basis - and that we want documents added to the Collection from all relevant entities, public and private.
As stated in the complaint, it is our position that NARA has the power to identify new assassination records and add them to the Collection:
"53. Defendant NARA is the successor agency to the ARRB, and has assumed responsibility for ensuring compliance with the Act. (footnote 62) The ministerial non-discretionary duties include following up with agencies to complete outstanding ARRB search requests, to search for additional information and Assassination Records as well as to direct agencies to locate lost and missing records as their existence becomes known."
Footnote 62 refers to 65 FR 39550 (June 27, 2000). This section states: "The Assassination Records Review Board was established by the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 (106 Stat. 3443). At the termination of the Review Board on September 30, 1998, its records were transferred to the Archivist of the United States. NARA continues to maintain and supplement the collection under the provisions of the Act. NARA is, therefore, the successor in function to this defunct independent agency."
Together with NARA's acknowledgement that it can add records to its JFK
Collection, this is good news.
Perhaps we should start seriously thinking about what information NARA doesn't have that it should.
My first thought is what was Allen Dulles doing at the Farm his CIA hangout, on the weekend of the murder. I have this image of him shouting into the phone to the people working on the coverup, kill that little bastard before he can get a lawyer. How did David Talbott find out about it? Is there any way to get more info about it? NARA should have an Allen Dulles wing in the Collection.
They all have their own little agendas and for some, that does not include anything that may tend to go against pet theories.
What else should be included? See my previous list.
FWIW, I totally agree with Bill here.
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
- Roger Odisio
- Posts : 155
Join date : 2017-10-02
Re: Mary Ferrell Foundation lawsuit
Wed 07 Dec 2022, 2:32 pm
Yes, Greg, others did say similar things as Simpich, although perhaps not as clearly and forcefully, during recent discussions on EF. Right from the beginning (Oct 22), in response to my direct question about whether Darnell and Wiegman were being considered as part of the lawsuit's record search, Simpich definitively declared NARA has the power to demand the originals of the films Darnell and Wiegman:
"Bart Kamp - among many others - makes the case that the Darnell and Weigman films portray Oswald on the book depository steps at the time of the shooting of JFK.
http://www.prayer-man.com/misc/prayer-man-in-a-nutshell/
NARA stands in the shoes of the ARRB since its dissolution. NARA has the power to demand the originals of these films from NBC and the Sixth Floor."
Simpich's recent post that I cited was responding to my repeated posts pointing out that a lot of the record discussion was about withheld government documents, while ignoring the ARRB definition--the official definition of record--that eliminated any reference to the source or ownership of information.
It's probably important that Simpich is the lead attorney on the case.
Larry Hancock (also OCT 22) said of the lawsuit "its not just a matter of records release and redaction removal, but of empowering NARA to complete JFK related collections - and you can be assured they already know where to look for a good bit of missing material and will receive advice on more."
The suit's co-counsel Larry Schnapf started out nebulously: "Technically, NARA does not have the authority of ARRB to determine that documents are 'assassination records'. However, it did incorporate ARRB's regulations into the NARA portion of the federal code so there might be an argument that NARA succeeded to those powers." Simpich had already answered that question, and you don't have to be lawyer to understand that Congress intended NARA to take over where the ARRB left off. The JFK Act limited the ARRB's time to do the job and could not have believed nothing else would be needed since 1998.
After some back and forth, however, Schnapf ended up here (Nov30): "Roger- we are asking the court to order the kind of searches and you have suggested (sic). I cannot get into legal strategy with you on a public forum but can assure you we are on top of theses issues." I said that is all I can ask.
Then three days later Simpich posted that he "wants to assure...everyone that we are pushing for NARA to update the Collection on exactly that basis [using the ARRB definition I had been nagging them about] and that we want documents added to the Collection from all relevant entities, public and private".
I watched the Jeff Morley-MFF news conference today and caught some references to NARA seeking additional records as part of the suit. Not a lot. But they're trying to get the media interested and "what are the CIA and FBI hiding" is their main hook.
They have at least acknowledged the full job ahead and Simpich should make a good leader.
"Bart Kamp - among many others - makes the case that the Darnell and Weigman films portray Oswald on the book depository steps at the time of the shooting of JFK.
http://www.prayer-man.com/misc/prayer-man-in-a-nutshell/
NARA stands in the shoes of the ARRB since its dissolution. NARA has the power to demand the originals of these films from NBC and the Sixth Floor."
Simpich's recent post that I cited was responding to my repeated posts pointing out that a lot of the record discussion was about withheld government documents, while ignoring the ARRB definition--the official definition of record--that eliminated any reference to the source or ownership of information.
It's probably important that Simpich is the lead attorney on the case.
Larry Hancock (also OCT 22) said of the lawsuit "its not just a matter of records release and redaction removal, but of empowering NARA to complete JFK related collections - and you can be assured they already know where to look for a good bit of missing material and will receive advice on more."
The suit's co-counsel Larry Schnapf started out nebulously: "Technically, NARA does not have the authority of ARRB to determine that documents are 'assassination records'. However, it did incorporate ARRB's regulations into the NARA portion of the federal code so there might be an argument that NARA succeeded to those powers." Simpich had already answered that question, and you don't have to be lawyer to understand that Congress intended NARA to take over where the ARRB left off. The JFK Act limited the ARRB's time to do the job and could not have believed nothing else would be needed since 1998.
After some back and forth, however, Schnapf ended up here (Nov30): "Roger- we are asking the court to order the kind of searches and you have suggested (sic). I cannot get into legal strategy with you on a public forum but can assure you we are on top of theses issues." I said that is all I can ask.
Then three days later Simpich posted that he "wants to assure...everyone that we are pushing for NARA to update the Collection on exactly that basis [using the ARRB definition I had been nagging them about] and that we want documents added to the Collection from all relevant entities, public and private".
I watched the Jeff Morley-MFF news conference today and caught some references to NARA seeking additional records as part of the suit. Not a lot. But they're trying to get the media interested and "what are the CIA and FBI hiding" is their main hook.
They have at least acknowledged the full job ahead and Simpich should make a good leader.
Re: Mary Ferrell Foundation lawsuit
Thu 08 Dec 2022, 12:12 am
Roger, if lawyers could be trusted to always do the right thing, we wouldn't be here discussing the case now.
You may not have been around at the time, but if you believe they are all on the same page, I refer you back a few years to the mock trial. They got the mock part right, not so much the trial.
Which tellls me he has given zerofucks thought about getting anything other than the oft-cited CIA files and Marcello material. Based on that misleading answer, it is hard to conclude anything else. Larry, for reasons I can't fathom (which wouldn't surprise Larry since he thinks I'm weird), puts great stock in the braggadocio of a jailed mobster.
It is good that he is on board now, but I'm guessing that has been the result of a few emails flying back and forth pursuant to your posts.
I was not aware that Larry H is officially involved in this effort. That can't hurt. And yes, it is good to see Bill in charge.
You may not have been around at the time, but if you believe they are all on the same page, I refer you back a few years to the mock trial. They got the mock part right, not so much the trial.
The suit's co-counsel Larry Schnapf started out nebulously: "Technically, NARA does not have the authority of ARRB to determine that documents are 'assassination records'. However, it did incorporate ARRB's regulations into the NARA portion of the federal code so there might be an argument that NARA succeeded to those powers."
Which tellls me he has given zero
It is good that he is on board now, but I'm guessing that has been the result of a few emails flying back and forth pursuant to your posts.
I was not aware that Larry H is officially involved in this effort. That can't hurt. And yes, it is good to see Bill in charge.
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
- Roger Odisio
- Posts : 155
Join date : 2017-10-02
Re: Mary Ferrell Foundation lawsuit
Thu 08 Dec 2022, 7:48 am
There has been a large group of mostly lawyers who worked on the lawsuit. Simpich and Schnapf are listed as the attorneys of record. Schnapf says Simpich is the lead attorney and he is co-counsel.
Hancock is part of the group who helped. I'm not sure if he is part of an official group, or even if there is such a thing. When I asked early on whether Darnell was being considered as a record they would seek should they get that far, Hancock said he would let Bill answer that. Simpich then said NARA has the power to demand the originals of both Darnell and Wiegman from NBC and add them to the Collection, contradicting Schnapf's original response. As stated in the Complaint, he said, they were going after all records not just those held by the government.
Mark Adamcyk is another lawyer cited as working on the case. He wrote an article about the suit for Jimmy Di's website, which JD linked to with fulsome praise. I said it was good, but he only mentioned government records as the target, leading him to ignore the ARRB record definition. That was not some minor oversight. The ARRB's expansion of the original definition of record to include all relevant information was one of its major accomplishments.
I counted 4 more lawyers, other than the two listed on the case, plus Hancock, Rex Bradbury from MFF, Jeff Morley, and Debra Conway, as lawsuit helpers mentioned at EF. I don't know how the group will interact, but I'm hoping Simpich is the major player. At least he is aware that NARA's mandate includes all relevant information, not just what they can get the CIA and FBI to dribble out, and seems amenable to asking for Darnell and Wiegman if they get that far.
I share your general view of lawyers and trace the problem to their training. They are taught to serve a client, not so much seek the truth or, gasp, justice, on the threadbare theory that the clash of adversarial counsels will reveal the truth. Ha! That is why OJ Simpson had no trouble getting high priced help and skipping, even tho it was obvious to those lawyers that he did it. And so many obnoxious politicians are lawyers...
In this society you *are* weird, Greg. But in a good way.
Hancock is part of the group who helped. I'm not sure if he is part of an official group, or even if there is such a thing. When I asked early on whether Darnell was being considered as a record they would seek should they get that far, Hancock said he would let Bill answer that. Simpich then said NARA has the power to demand the originals of both Darnell and Wiegman from NBC and add them to the Collection, contradicting Schnapf's original response. As stated in the Complaint, he said, they were going after all records not just those held by the government.
Mark Adamcyk is another lawyer cited as working on the case. He wrote an article about the suit for Jimmy Di's website, which JD linked to with fulsome praise. I said it was good, but he only mentioned government records as the target, leading him to ignore the ARRB record definition. That was not some minor oversight. The ARRB's expansion of the original definition of record to include all relevant information was one of its major accomplishments.
I counted 4 more lawyers, other than the two listed on the case, plus Hancock, Rex Bradbury from MFF, Jeff Morley, and Debra Conway, as lawsuit helpers mentioned at EF. I don't know how the group will interact, but I'm hoping Simpich is the major player. At least he is aware that NARA's mandate includes all relevant information, not just what they can get the CIA and FBI to dribble out, and seems amenable to asking for Darnell and Wiegman if they get that far.
I share your general view of lawyers and trace the problem to their training. They are taught to serve a client, not so much seek the truth or, gasp, justice, on the threadbare theory that the clash of adversarial counsels will reveal the truth. Ha! That is why OJ Simpson had no trouble getting high priced help and skipping, even tho it was obvious to those lawyers that he did it. And so many obnoxious politicians are lawyers...
In this society you *are* weird, Greg. But in a good way.
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