When did Bonnie Ray join Jarman and Norman

Let me preface this with the fact that the statements and testimonies of these three are difficult to reconcile. This is the version that the official version leads us to conclude. It should be obvious even the official version is full of holes when we take note of the observations of Arnold Rowland and Carolyn Arnold (either version).

Mr. BALL - And then what did you do? 
Mr. JARMAN - Then I went out in front of the building. 
Mr. BALL - With who? 
Mr. JARMAN - Harold Norman, Bonnie Ray, and Danny Arce and myself. 
Mr. BALL - You say Bonnie Ray Williams? 
Mr. JARMAN - Bonnie Ray Williams. 
Mr. BALL - Do you remember him going with you? 
Mr. JARMAN - No; I am sorry. Excuse me, but it was Harold Norman and myself and Daniel Arce. 

Note that Danny Arce ate his lunch in the domino room after Norman had room and joined Jarman. So they were still there when Arce came out front.

Mr. BALL - What about Billy Lovelady? 
Mr. JARMAN - I didn't go out with them. They came out later. 
Mr. BALL - Did you see Billy Lovelady out there? 
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL - Where was he? 
Mr. JARMAN - Standing on the stairway as you go out the front door. 
Mr. BALL - Where did you stand? 
Mr. JARMAN - I was standing over to the right in front of the building going toward the west. 
Mr. BALL - Were you on the sidewalk or curb? 
Mr. JARMAN - On the sidewalk. 
Mr. BALL - The sidewalk in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building? 
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL - How long did you stand there? 
Mr. JARMAN - Well, until about 12:20, between 12:20 and 12:25. 

As we will see this is an accurate recollection.

Mr. BALL - Who do you remember was standing near you that worked with you in the Book Depository? 
Mr. JARMAN - Harold Norman and Charles Givens and Daniel Arce. 
Mr. BALL - What about Mr. Truly? 
Mr. JARMAN - He wasn't standing close to me. 
Mr. BALL - Did you see him? 
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL - Who was he with?
Mr. JARMAN. He was with the Vice President of the company. 
Mr. BALL - What is his name? 
Mr. JARMAN - O. V. Campbell. 
Mr. BALL - Where were they standing? 
Mr. JARMAN - They were standing at the corner of the building in front of the mail boxes. 

This is likely before Campbell and Truly moved closer to the curb.
What does Roy Truly say?

Mr. TRULY. As near as I know, it was between somewheres around 12:10 or shortly after, possibly 12:15. 
Mr. BELIN. At that time did you go out to lunch? 
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BELIN. Where did you go to eat? 
Mr. TRULY. We didn't go anywheres. Mr. Campbell and I-- 
Mr. BELIN. That is Mr. O. V. Campbell? 
Mr. TRULY. Mr. O. V. Campbell, vice president--and I had started out for lunch. I don't know as we had any particular place in mind. We ate at several places around there.
It was around 12:10 or 12:15, I would say, to the nearest of my memory.
As we got to the outside of the building, we noticed that it wouldn't be long until the motorcade would come by, and we decided to wait and watch the President come by. 
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember where you were standing with Mr. Campbell? 
Mr. TRULY. I would judge out in Elm Street, 10 to 15 or 20 feet from the front steps. We first stood on the steps, the bottom steps a few minutes, and then we walked out in the line of spectators on the side of Elm Street. 
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Do you know approximately what time you got there, Mr. Truly? To the best of your recollection. 
Mr. TRULY. 3 or 4 minutes after we reached the entrance, the walkway, we stood on the steps 2 or 3 minutes, and then I don't believe we just gradually moved out a bit.
And then when the policemen leading the motorcade came off of Main on to Houston, we saw them coming, and then we just moved out a little farther to the edge of the parkway. 


Mr. BALL - You left there, didn't you, and went some place? 
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL - With whom? 
Mr. JARMAN - Harold Norman and myself. 
Mr. BALL - Where did you go? 
Mr. JARMAN - We went around to the back of the building up to the fifth floor. 
Mr. BALL - You say you went around. You mean you went around the building? 
Mr. JARMAN - Right. 
Mr. BALL - You didn't go through and cross the first floor? 
Mr. JARMAN - No, sir; there was too many people standing on the stairway so we decided to go around. 

As an aside. Note that about 12.20 or later that the steps are crowded. For those who think a stranger would push their way up and become PM.

Mr. BALL - You went in the back door? 
Mr. JARMAN - Right. 
Mr. BALL - That would be the north entrance to the building, wouldn't it? 
Mr. JARMAN - Right. 
Mr. BALL - Did you take an elevator or the stairs? 
Mr. JARMAN - We took the elevator. 
Mr. BALL - Which elevator? 
Mr. JARMAN - The west side elevator. 
Mr. BALL - That is the one you use a punch button on, isn't it? 
Mr. JARMAN - Right 
Mr. BALL - Where did you go? 
Mr. JARMAN - To the fifth floor. 
Mr. BALL - Why did you go to the fifth floor? 
Mr. JARMAN - We just decided to go to the fifth floor. 
Mr. BALL - Was there any reason why you should go to the fifth floor any more than the fourth or the sixth? 
Mr. JARMAN - No. 
Mr. BALL - Did you know who made the suggestion you go to the fifth floor? 
Mr. JARMAN - Well, I don't know if it was myself or Hank. 
Mr. BALL - When you got there was there anybody on the fifth floor? 
Mr. JARMAN - No, sir. 
Mr. BALL - What did you do when you got to the fifth floor? 
Mr. JARMAN - We got out the elevator and pulled the gate down. That was in case somebody wanted to use it. Then we went to the front of the building, which is on the south side, and raised the windows. 

So we have them walking around the building, entering the back door and taking the west elevator to the fifth floor and opening some windows. A journey of about 3 minutes.

Mr. BALL - Which windows did you raise? 
Mr. JARMAN - Well, Harold raised the first window to the east side of the building, and I went to the second rear windows and raised, counting the windows, it would be the fourth one. 
Mr. BALL - It would be the fourth window? 
Mr. JARMAN - Yes. 
Mr. BALL - Did somebody join you then? 
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir; a few minutes later. 
Mr. BALL - Who joined you? 
Mr. JARMAN - Bonnie Ray Williams. 
Mr. BALL - And where did he stand or sit? 
Mr. JARMAN - He took the window next to Harold Norman. 

Summary of Jarman is about 12.22 leave the front of the TSBD. Arrive at the windows about 12.25. Williams joins them a few minutes after. Maybe heis there with them 2-3 minutes before the shots. If he leaves the 6th floor after hearing them open the windows immediately.


Mr. BALL. And you and Junior did what? 
Mr. NORMAN. We went outside. 
Mr. BALL. You went out the front door, did you? 
Mr. NORMAN. Yes. 
Mr. BALL. That is the Elm Street? 
Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Where did you stand? 
Mr. NORMAN. We stood on the Elm Street sidewalk. 
Mr. BALL. On the sidewalk? 
Mr. NORMAN. Yes. We didn't go any further than that point. 
Mr. BALL. What time was it that you went out there? 
Mr. NORMAN. Oh, I would say, I don't know exactly, around 12 or 12:10, something like that. 

Note Norman has no real idea of the time......as 12 is obviously way too early.

Mr. BALL. Who was standing with you when you were standing on the sidewalk, on the Elm Street sidewalk? 
Mr. NORMAN. I remember it was Danny Arce. 
Mr. BALL. And who else? 
Mr. NORMAN. I remember seeing Mr. Truly and Mr. Campbell. They were standing somewhere behind us, not exactly behind us but they were back of us. 
Mr. BALL. Anybody else? 
Mr. NORMAN. Well, I believe Billy Lovelady, I think. He was sitting on the steps there. 
Mr. BALL. He was? 
Mr. NORMAN. Yes. That is about all the employees I remember seeing out there. There were more people out there. 
Mr. BALL. Did you stay there? 
Mr. NORMAN. Well, we stayed there I believe until we got the news that the motorcade was coming down, let's see, is that Commerce, no Main, because Commerce- we went beck in the building, James Jarman and I. 

Dallas police transcript says the motorcade was at Turtle Creek about 12.15. Rowland remembered this was about the time he saw the gunman.

Thanks to Norman we have a timestamp. The motorcade passed Ross at 12.20 on its way to Main Street. So it is clear that the time is likely about 12.22 when the leave the TSBD entrance.


Mr. BALL. Where did you go when you went in the building? 
Mr. NORMAN. We got the east elevator. No; the west. 
Mr. BALL. The west elevator? 
Mr. NORMAN. The west elevator. And went to the fifth floor. 
Mr. BALL. The west elevator is the one you use the push button on? 
Mr. NORMAN. Yes; the one you pull the gate. 
Mr. BALL. That is right. It is a push button elevator. 
Mr. NORMAN. Yes. 
Mr. BALL. And you went up to the fifth floor? 
Mr. NORMAN. Fifth floor. 
Mr. BALL. Why did you go to the fifth floor? 
Mr. NORMAN. Usually, one reason was you usually fill orders, I fill quite a few orders from the fifth floor and I figured I could get, you know, a better view of the parade or motorcade or whatever it is from the fifth floor because I was more familiar with that floor. 
Mr. BALL. And what did you and Junior do after you got off the elevator? 
Mr. NORMAN. We walked around to the windows facing Elm Street and I can't recall if any were open or not but I remember we opened some, two or three windows ourselves. 
Mr. BALL. Did somebody join you there? 
Mr. NORMAN. Bonnie Ray, I can't remember if he was there when we got there or he came later. I know he was with us a period of time later. 
Mr. BALL. And then did he come down before the President's motorcade came by? 
Mr. NORMAN. Yes; he was with us before the motorcade came by. 

With Norman' recollection of the motorcade position his timing now coincides with that of Jarman.

Mr. BALL. You say you went back upstairs. Where did you go? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I went back up to the sixth floor. 
Mr. BALL. Why did you go to the sixth floor? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time everybody was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor. I think Billy Lovelady said he wanted to watch from up there. And also my friend; this Spanish boy, by the name of Danny Arce, we had agreed at first to come back up to the sixth floor. So I thought everybody was going to be on the sixth floor. 
Mr. BALL. Did anybody go back? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Nobody came back up. So I just left. 
Mr. DULLES. You ate your lunch on the sixth floor? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 
Mr. DULLES. And you were all alone? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. What did you sit on while you ate your lunch? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. First of all, I remember there was some boxes behind me. I just kind of leaned back on the boxes first. Then I began to get a little impatient, because there wasn't anyone coming up. So I decided to move to a two-wheeler. 
Mr. BALL. A two-wheeler truck, you mean? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I remember sitting on this two-wheeler. By that time, I was through, and I got up and I just left then. 
Mr. DULLES. How much of the room could you see as you finished your lunch there? Was your view obstructed by boxes of books, or could you see a good bit of the sixth floor? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time I couldn't see too much of the sixth floor, because the books at the time were stacked so high. I could see only in the path that I was standing--as I remember, I could not possibly see anything to the east side of the building. But just one aisle, the aisle I was standing in I could see just about to the west side of the building. So far as seeing to the east and behind me, I could only see down the aisle behind me and the aisle to the west of me. 

Note his view of the west side. The one that had been cleared for floor laying.

Mr. BALL. How long did you stay there? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I was there from--5, 10, maybe 12 minutes. 
Mr. BALL. Finish your lunch? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. No longer than it took me to finish the chicken sandwich. 
Mr. BALL. Did you eat the chicken? 
Mr. BALL. Where did you go when you left there? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I went down to the fifth floor. 
Mr. BALL. How did you get down there? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I took an elevator down. 
Mr. BALL. You didn't go down the stairs? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Which elevator did you take? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I took the east elevator down. 
Mr. BALL. Is that the one that is worked with a hand-- 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. That is the one with the one gate, and works with the hand pedal. 
Mr. BALL. How does the other one work? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. The other one worked by push button. You have two gates to pull. That is the one you can pull two gates on and it will come back up by itself. The east side elevator won't come up unless someone is operating. 
Mr. BALL. You took the elevator from the sixth floor to the fifth floor? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Where did you intend to go when you left the sixth floor? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I intended to stop on the fifth floor, and if there wasn't anyone there, I intended to get out of the building, go outside. 
Mr. BALL. Well, you stopped on the fifth floor. Why? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Beg pardon? 
Mr. BALL. Why did you stop on the fifth floor? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. To see if there was anyone there. 
Mr. BALL. Did you know there was anyone there before you started down? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, I thought I heard somebody walking, the windows moving or something. I said maybe someone is down there, I said to myself. And I just went on down. 

So he claims to hear the windows opening downstairs. About 12.25 and decides to go down. Maybe 2 minutes.




Mr. BALL. Did you find anybody there? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. As I remember, when I was walking up, I think Harold Norman and James Jarman as I remember, they was down facing the Elm Street on the fifth floor, as I remember. 
Mr. BALL. Now, when you came down there and got off that elevator, did you notice that the other elevator was also on that floor? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time I didn't notice it. 
Mr. BALL. Did you, later? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; as I remember. 
Mr. BALL. You don't remember? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; I don't remember. 
Mr. BALL. When you got off the elevator, you went over to the front of the building, the Elm Street side. 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; I did. 
Mr. BALL. And you saw Norman and-- 
Mr. DULLES. Mr. Ball, could we get the time element? 
Mr. BALL. I am going to bring that in. 
Mr. DULLES. All right. I will bide my time. 
Mr. BALL. You went over to the front of the building, did you? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes. 
Mr. BALL. And you saw your two friends, Norman and Jarman? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes. 
Mr. BALL. You had known them before? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes sir. 
Mr. BALL. Now, do you know what time that was? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not know the exact time. 
Mr. BALL. It was-- 
Mr. WILLIAMS. It was after I had left the sixth floor, after I had eaten the chicken sandwich. I finished the chicken sandwich maybe 10 or 15 minutes after 12. I could say approximately what time it was. 
Mr. BALL. Approximately what time was it? 
Mr. BALL. Do you recognize that? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; I recognize that. 
Mr. BALL. What do you see? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I see a two-wheeler, a Dr. Pepper bottle, and some boxes in the windows. 
Mr. BALL. And is that anywhere near where you were sitting? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; that is the exact place I was sitting. 
Mr. BALL. That is the two-wheeler you were sitting on? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Now, when you were on the two-wheeler, as you were sitting there, did you have a view, could you see down towards the southeast corner? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; I couldn't see anything as I remember there. About the only thing that I could see from there would be just the top edge of the window, because the boxes were stacked up. 
Mr. BALL. The boxes were stacked up high? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Let me show you another picture here. 
Mr. DULLES. You are not introducing that at this time? 
Mr. BALL. I will. I am going to introduce them all. Let's go back to the diagram, which is 483. Could you mark on this diagram the window that is shown in this picture 484 that is, the place where you were sitting and eating your lunch? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. That would be facing Elm Street. I would say right around in this. 
Mr. BALL. In other words, you are marking here something between--some area between the third and the fourth window. 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. You are not able to tell exactly? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. No; I am not. 
Mr. BALL. The witness has drawn a red rectangle to show the approximate area which runs from about the center. of the second row of windows from the southeast corner over to about the fourth pane of windows. 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I would say about right in here, third or fourth. 
Mr. BALL. Third or fourth? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Now, you have made two marks, so I will identify the last mark. Between the third and fourth, is that right? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. We will mark the rectangle, and we will mark it "W-3" and "W-4" the end of the lines. 
Mr. McCLOY. What time of day was this, when you were eating your lunch? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. About 12. 
Mr. McCLOY. Just 12? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Now, as you looked towards the southeast corner from where you were sitting, could you see the windows in the southeast corner? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. In the southeast--that is--the southeast. I really don't remember if I seen anything-- it would be just the top edge of the window, as I remember. 
Mr. BALL. Did you see anyone else up there that day? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, I did not. 
Mr. BALL. How long did you stay there? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I was there from--5, 10, maybe 12 minutes. 
Mr. BALL. Finish your lunch? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. No longer than it took me to finish the chicken sandwich. 
Mr. BALL. Did you eat the chicken? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, I did. 
Mr. BALL. Where did you put the bones? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I don't remember exactly, but I think I put some of them back in the sack. Just as I was ready to go I threw the sack down. 
Mr. BALL. What did you do with the sack? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I think I just dropped it there. 
Mr. BALL. Anywhere near the two-wheeler? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I think it was. 
Mr. BALL. What did you do with the Dr. Pepper bottle? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Just set it down on the floor. 
Mr. BALL. There is a pop bottle that you see in the picture, 484-does that look like anything like the pop bottle that you were drinking from that day? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I believe that was the bottle--I believe. I am not sure. But it looks like it. 
Mr. BALL. Did you leave the bottle somewhere near the point shown of the bottle shown on 484? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I am really not sure about it. I don't think I left it there. I am not sure. I think I left it sitting up on top of the boxes, right to the side of the two-wheeler. As I remember-I am not sure about it. It is possible that I could have put it there. 
Mr. BALL. Your memory is that the Dr. Pepper bottle was left on top of the boxes? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Beg pardon? 
Mr. BALL. Your memory is that you left the Dr. Pepper bottle on top of some of the cartons? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. As I remember. I am not sure. 
Mr. BALL. It is shown there on the floor. 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Where did you go when you left there? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I went down to the fifth floor. 
 
Mr. BALL. Now, do you know what time that was? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not know the exact time. 
Mr. BALL. It was-- 
Mr. WILLIAMS. It was after I had left the sixth floor, after I had eaten the chicken sandwich. I finished the chicken sandwich maybe 10 or 15 minutes after 12. I could say approximately what time it was. 
Mr. BALL. Approximately what time was it? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Approximately 12:20, maybe. 
Mr. BALL. Well, now, when you talked to the FBI on the 23d day of November, you said that you went up to the sixth floor about 12 noon with your lunch, and you stayed only about 3 minutes, and seeing no one you came down to the fifth floor, using the stairs at the west end of the building. Now, do you think you stayed longer than 3 minutes up there? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I am sure I stayed longer than 3 minutes. 
Mr. BALL. Do you remember telling the FBI you only stayed 3 minutes up there? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not remember telling them I only stayed 3 minutes. 
Mr. BALL. And then on this 14th of January 1964, when you talked to Carter and Griffin, they reported that you told them you went down to the fifth floor around 12:05 p.m., and that around 12:30 p.m. you were watching the Presidential parade. Now, do you remember telling them you went down there about 12:05 p.m.? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. I remember telling the fellows that--they asked me first, they said, "How long did it take you to finish the sandwich?" I said, "Maybe 5 to 10 minutes, maybe 15 minutes." Just like I said here. I don't remember saying for a definite answer that it was 5 minutes. 
Mr. BALL. Well, is it fair to say that you do not remember the exact time now? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 

His latest guess for the time he went to the 5th floor was 12.20. Likely the closest to reality to date.

Finally some confirmation from Howard Brennan.
 
Mr. BELIN. And then after lunch, where did you go? 
Mr. BRENNAN. I finished lunch and I glanced at a clock--I don't know exactly where the clock is located--and noticed it was 12:18. So I thought I still had a few minutes, that I might see the parade and the President. I walked to the corner of Houston and Elm. 
Mr. BELIN. What route did you take to get to Houston and Elm? 
Mr. BRENNAN. I went west on Main. 
Mr. BELIN. You went west on Main from Record Street to-- 
Mr. BRENNAN. Houston. 
Mr. BELIN. Houston 
Mr. BRENNAN. And on the east side of Houston, I walked to Elm. 
Mr. BELIN. All right. 
Mr. BRENNAN. Crossed the street to the southwest corner of Houston and Elm. 
Mr. BELIN. Do you have any estimate about how long it took you to get there? 
Mr. BRENNAN. A possibility I would say more or less 4 minutes. 
Mr. BELIN. And then what did you do when you got to the southwest corner of Houston and Elm? 
Mr. BRENNAN. I stayed around a couple of minutes. There was a man having an epileptic fit, a possibility of 20 yards east--south of this corner. And they were being attended by some civilians and officers, and I believe an ambulance picked him up. 
Mr. BELIN. All right. 
Mr. BRENNAN. And I walked over to this retainer wall of this little park pool and jumped up on the top ledge. 
Mr. BELIN. You jumped up on the retaining wall? 
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes. 

Brennan takes up position on the wall around 12.25 or later.


Mr. BELIN. Did you see any other people in any other windows that you can recollect? 
Mr. BRENNAN. Not on that floor. 
There was no other person on that floor that ever came to the window that I noticed. 
There were people on the next floor down, which is the fifth floor, colored guys. In particular, I only remember two that I identified.

He sees only 2 guys on the 5th floor. Interestingly he later pick Williams as one of those 2. Wonder how good he was at recognising people.? 

So we have all three participants in some way or another indicating a time later than 12.20 and closer to 12.25 for the time that Jarman and Norman got into position.

Colin Crow wrote:Mr. BALL. Why did you go to the sixth floor? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time everybody was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor. I think Billy Lovelady said he wanted to watch from up there. And also my friend; this Spanish boy, by the name of Danny Arce, we had agreed at first to come back up to the sixth floor. So I thought everybody was going to be on the sixth floor. 
Mr. BALL. Did anybody go back? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Nobody came back up. So I just left. 
Mr. DULLES. You ate your lunch on the sixth floor? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 
Mr. DULLES. And you were all alone? 
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 

Colin,

Notice that none of the others in the crew were asked about or volunteered any information on any agreement to meet back up on 6 to watch the motorcade?

In first day statements. as well as in HSCA interviews, there is sufficient evidence to suggest Williams never went up to the 6th floor at all. In fact, his his own first day statement is part of that evidence. 

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/01/0141-001.gif

If Williams ate his lunch on the 5th floor, and he had chicken on the bone sandwiches as he claimed, then they could not have been found on the 6th floor.

As you'd know, Wade and others told the media scrums that the lunch remnants constituted evidence of a cool, calculating professional killer who had (according to wade) been planning this for months. Professional killer = conspiracy.

When the LN scenario kicked in, they need someone else to step in and be sniper nest chicken feaster. 

Enter BRW.

But now they needed an excuse for him to be up there on his lonesome having lunch.

Enter the fabricated pre-lunch agreement in which poor BRW is stood up by every single fellow worker. 

Musta been his BO.

I agree Greg. My point was to show that the official version does not even stack up when you consider the gunman is seen by Rowland at 12.15. Certainly no corroboration by Arce or Lovelady. Similar to why wasn't Piper asked to corroborate Dougherty.

There are statements early on, and even at the HSCA that indicate Williams went with the other 2. I think in the HSCA statements it was said BRW bought his chicken from the lunch truck that day. The moving chicken bones is yet another unbelievable tale. I think Jarman and Norman did arrive before BRW who was delayed at the lunch truck, then bought the Dr Pepper. Maybe spent one minute on the 6th looking for them, the found them on 5. From that time the chicken and pop bottle were on roller skates.

I wonder how many drafts of scrips these guys were getting on a daily basis! I think all we can go on are the first day statements, if that. Unfortunately minimal detail.

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt

barto wrote:Thanks to Malcolm Blunt

That's possible. There was some discrepancy in first day statements as to whether he went straight up to 5 with them. He could have followed soon after.

That ties in with what I've read about Jarman and Norman passing the DR after having reentered the TSBD via the rear door after having been out front. In my opinion that's when Lee Oswald observed Jarman and Norman as they headed to the fifth floor.

It's still entirely possible however that Lee Oswald saw these two earlier - closer to noon.

J Edgar Hoover wanted to know more about this aspect of the case and remarked “handle promptly” seen in the document, from January 3^rd 1964. 

But things were 'taken care of' 11 days after that memo.   


In an affidavit for the FBI on January 14^th 1964 (page 15) Jarman says that the three of them had lunch at 12:00 on the first floor and went to the fifth floor at 12:25 using the West elevator.

“He said that Ray and Norman were with him all the time he was on the first floor and they did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at any time between 12 noon until they returned to the first floor after the shooting".

That now begs the question of where the chicken bones came from, if not from either of the 5th or 6th floors.

I would say that this looks like further interference of the feds in twisting the evidence as Oswald being the guy.

Could they have been planted?

Dougherty?