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Ruth Paine's Calendar

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Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Fri 25 Mar 2011, 4:38 am

Was the rifle allegedly shipped by Klein's Sporting Goods to A. Hidell actually instead "shipped" to Ruth Paine?

Gil Jesus has pointed out in a recent Ed Forum post that in Hoover's 10:00 AM phone call to LBJ on November 23, Hoover states that the Klein's rifle was shipped "to a man- no, to a woman by the name of A. Heidel". Jim DiEugenio has asked whether this might relate to Ruth Paine's calendar markings.

Her calendar for March may be found at XVII p. 56; it contains a 5-pointed star in the box for March 20; another 5-pointed star is at the top left-hand corner of the page, beside the notation "Oct 23- LHO purchase of rifle".

*

Mrs. Paine had no explanation for this entry, but tried to tell the Commission that she had mistakenly written "October 23" instead of November 23... the day after the assassination, Mrs. Paine somehow knew that Klein's shipped a rifle to A. Hidell on March 20, 1963... The day after the assassination only a few FBI officials had access to the Klein's microfilm and no one in the DPD knew about March 20th until that evening, and certainly not Mrs. Paine. Even if Mrs. Paine mistakenly wrote "Oct 23" instead of "Nov 23" on her calendar, it does not explain how she knew, the day after the assassination, that Klein's shipped a rifle to Oswald on March 20, 1963...

The only way Mrs. Paine could have known on November 23 that Klein's had shipped a rifle to Oswald on March 20, 1963, is if she was told by a person or persons unknown or if she had knowledge of the shipment before the assassination.

-Harvey and Lee, p. 912

*

The relevant testimony was given on 3/21/64, at IX p. 358:

JENNER: Now, I turn to March, and I direct your attention to the upper left-hand corner of that card, and it appears to me that in the upper left-hand corner are October 23, then a star, then "LHO" followed by the words "purchase of a rifle". Would you explain those entries?
PAINE: Yes. This was written after.
JENNER: After.
PAINE: This was written indeed after the assassination.
JENNER: All right.
PAINE: I heard on the television that he had purchased a rifle.
JENNER: When?
PAINE: I heard it on November 23.
JENNER: Yes.
PAINE: And went back to the page for March, put a little star on March 20 as being a small square, I couldn't fit in all I wanted to say. I just put in a star and then referring it to the corner of the calendar.
JENNER: That is the entry I have read?
PAINE: Put the star saying "LHO purchase of rifle", then I thought someone is going to wonder about that, I had better put down the date, and did, but it was a busy day, one of the most in my life, and I was off by a month as to what day it was.
JENNER: That is you made the entry October?
PAINE: October 23 instead of November.
JENNER: It should have been November 23?
PAINE: It should have been November 23.
JENNER: And the entry of October 23, which should have been November 23, was an entry on your part indicating the date you wrote on the calendar the star followed by "LHO purchase of rifle" and likewise the date you made an entry?
PAINE: On the 20th.
JENNER: This is the square having the date March 20?
PAINE: Yes.
JENNER: Is that correct?
PAINE: I might point out that I didn't know Lee had a middle name until I had occasion to fill out forms for Marina at Parkland Hospital. <these pertained to the birth of Rachel Oswald on October 20>
JENNER: That is when you learned that his middle name was Harvey and his initial was H?
Paine: Right.

*

But 2 days earlier, on 3/19/64, at III p. 8, as Ruth was describing how she helped Marina move from New Orleans to Irving, she demonstrated that she already knew LHO's middle name:

"...My recollection is that he was present most of the weekend. He went out to buy groceries, came in with a cheery call to his two girls, saying "Yabutchski", which means girls, the Russian word for girls, as he came in the door. It was more like Harvey than I had seen him before."

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Fri 25 Mar 2011, 5:16 am

I forgot to point out, for the benefit of those who might be unaware, that Ruth Paine spent the weekend of September 20-23, 1963, helping Marina pack up from the Magazine Street apartment in New Orleans; so, contrary to what she claims in her calendar testimony, she knew at least a month before she filled out hospital forms what Oswald's middle name was.

It looks to me that she's attempting to cover up one lie (the reason she wrote Oct 23- LHO purchase of rifle) with another lie.

And I have to wonder whether the Klein's rifle shipment to Hidell was mythical; and whether Ruth Paine might have received this rifle on October 23.

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Fri 25 Mar 2011, 11:51 pm

Did Ruth Paine mail the envelope & coupon for rifle to Klein's on March 12? Is that her handwriting in Cadigan Exhibit 3A & 12, at XIX pp. 275 & 285?

This postulate explains why the envelope was postmarked "MAR 12 DALLAS, TEX.12" at "10:30 AM"- indicating it was collected at that approximate time in postal zone 12, several miles from downtown, somewhere in Oak Cliff near Oswald's Neely St. apartment- when the Jaggars time cards rigorously place Oswald at work downtown that morning.

This postulate does not explain 2 conundrums: it does not explain why a 36" rifle was ordered, yet a 40" rifle was found in the Book Depository; it does not explain how any rifle could have been shipped by Klein's & received at Oswald's PO Box 2915 without supporting documentation (concerning the shipment of firearms, and authorizing "Hidell" to receive such packages).

But these conundrums have never been adequately explained by anyone.

*

According to FBI 124-10140-10066, PH 105-9987-13, which is an FBI report by SA John R. Wineberg on 12/17/63 (this John Armstrong Nat'l Archives document is not available at Mary Ferrell): Ruth Paine first got in contact with Oswald in Russia via pen pal correspondence. Her testimony (IX p. 337, III p. 134) indicates that she served as chairman of a Correspondence group within the East-West Contact Committee of the Young Friends of North America, whose mission purpose was to help ease international east/west tensions. She had at least 2 other pen pals.

i.e. Did she have letters from Oswald in Minsk, and use them to help mimic his handwriting?

*

Like many others, I am convinced that the money order allegedly sent by A. Hidell to Klein's is a forgery. It has no bank stamp on its back. It was likely created on the afternoon of November 23 at the Dallas GPO (it wasn't located until about 9:00 PM in Alexandria, Virginia at the Federal Records Center).

I would like to suggest that Hidell's handwriting on the money order is actually that of Ruth Paine; that afternoon of November 23 she went into the Terminal Annex Building at the south of Dealey Plaza; Postal Inspector Harry Holmes arbitrarily pulled out a money order from a stack; after she filled it out he stamped its fictitious $21.45 value and fictitious March 12 date of issue.

I wouls also suggest that it is Holmes' handwriting at the bottom of the money order (Cadigan Exhibit 11, XIX p. 285), over "Initial of Issuing Employee". It seems to me to read "Na" as in "Not applicable".

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by greg parker on Sat 26 Mar 2011, 7:51 am

Was the rifle allegedly shipped by Klein's Sporting Goods to A. Hidell actually instead "shipped" to Ruth Paine?

Gil Jesus has pointed out in a recent Ed Forum post that in Hoover's 10:00 AM phone call to LBJ on November 23, Hoover states that the Klein's rifle was shipped "to a man- no, to a woman by the name of A. Heidel". Jim DiEugenio has asked whether this might relate to Ruth Paine's calendar markings.

Richard, why would the FBI believe ( a ) that "Hidell" ordered the rifle; ( b ) that "Hidell" was Oswald and ( c ) that a female ordered it?

Did the FBI think Oswald was an Ed Wood aficionado?

Hoover's mistake came about through a mistyped document which said "ANA J. HIDELL..." instead of "AN A.J. HIDELL..."

Ruth Paine may well have ordered the rifle, but Hoover's comment can't be used as evidence in support of that.

I'll have more to say when I get the time, but to give you a teaser...

I'll be making the case that Oswald (or someone on his behalf) obtained the rifle in October; that RP, at the very least, knew about it and; that Marina did take a single photo of Oswald holding it. It's no more than a rough outline in my head at the moment, and I'll be looking for you and others to try and poke holes in it - and if it survives that - to help hammer it into shape.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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The Rifle, The Calendar & The Photo

Post by greg parker on Sat 26 Mar 2011, 11:28 pm

I'll start with a couple of premises:

premise 1: Oswald wanted to buy a rifle but did not have one between March, '63 and late September '63.

based on...

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever observe or hear prior to the assassination that Lee Oswald had been practicing with a rifle?
Mr. PAINE - No, I didn't know prior to the assassination, we didn't know he had a rifle. I had supposed from my conversation with him back on Neely Street that he would like to have a rifle but I didn't gather that he did.


I accept this as factual only because it was independently confirmed from my interview with Ruth Peters (daughter of Ruth and Henry Kloepfer) who had spent some time talking with Olswald at the time he and Marina were prepapring to leave NO in late September:

"...both my sister Karol and I remember our shock when Karol innocently asked him ‘Why did you leave the Soviet Union?’ and he answered, 'Because they won’t let you own a gun there.’ One of us persisted with something like ‘But why would you need a gun?” And he had said simply, shaking his head nervously, ‘you gotta have a gun!’ He then went on to tell us that one thing he was going to do in Washington was ‘pick up a gun.’"

=====

Premise 2: Marina did take a photo of Oswald holding a rifle.

I base this on Marguerite's testimony, as follows

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir--the 22d, Friday, the 22d. I am worried because Lee hasn't had an attorney. And I am talking about that, and Mrs. Paine said, "Oh, don't worry about that. I am a member of the Civil Liberties Union, and Lee will have an attorney, I can assure you." I said to myself but when? Of course, I didn't want to push her, argue with her. But the point was if she was a member of the Union, why didn't she see Lee had an attorney then. So I wasn't too happy about that. Now, gentlemen, this is some very important facts. My daughter-in-law spoke to Mrs. Paine in Russian, "Mamma." she says. So she takes me into the bedroom and closes the door. She said, "Mamma, I show you." She opened the closet, and in the closet was a lot of books and papers. And she came out with a picture a picture of Lee, with a gun. It said, "To my daughter June"-written in English. I said, "Oh, Marina, police." I didn't think anything of the picture. Now, you must understand that I don't know what is going on on television--I came from the jailhouse and everything, so I don't know all the circumstances, what evidence they had against my son by this time. I had no way of knowing. But I say to my daughter, "To my daughter. June." anybody can own a rifle, to go hunting. You yourself probably have a rifle. So I am not connecting this with the assassination--"To my daughter, June." Because I would immediately say, and I remember--I think my son is all agent all the time no one is going to be foolish enough if they mean to assassinate the President, or even murder someone to take a picture of themselves with that rifle, and leave that there for evidence.

=====

I cannot conceive of Marguerite making this up, so I have to believe at least one photo did exist.

But this was not one of the BY photos -- nor even THE one. Marguerite said nothing about a pistol or any newspapers being in this photo, and could not identify it as any of the infamous set we all know and love. According to Marguerite he was "holding the rifle up" above his head "with both hands" on it.

For her part, Marina initially only claimed to have taken the one photo. And this was apparently it. If there were others (which on the face of it, were far more damning because of the Commie newspapers), why was she only concerned about this one?

I believe this photo was taken in late October with a newly acquired rifle.

Which is where Ruth's calendar comes in. If you go to October, you'll see a big X inside the box for the 23rd. It surely had a reason behind it.

Did it signify the purchase of a rifle on the very day that Oswald is believed to have attended the Walker US Day rally?

Did Ruth panic about the "X" and try to cover it up by diverting attention back to March in line with the official story on the rifle purchase?




_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Sun 27 Mar 2011, 6:48 am

Great stuff, Greg. I have to let go of the idea that the Hoover-LBJ phone call supports the notion that a female ordered the Klein's rifle. I agree that Hoover was reciting a typo, apparently from information received from the 112th; as you point out

"[Colonel Robert] Jones stated INCT [i.e. Army Intelligence] records here [San Antonio] reflect a reference to Ana[in other words, an A.] J. Hidell who reportedly has distributed Hands Off Cuba literature"

*

I hadn't even noticed the X in the October 23 box on Ruth Paine's calendar!! Seems to me she bloody well knew that on "Oct 23- LHO purchase of rifle".

And she may well have been involved with, or at least knew about on March 12, the Klein's rifle purchase.

The FBI would have known "Hidell" purchased it via the Klein's order form (Waldman 7) & envelope w/ order coupon; LHO was carrying "Hidell" ID when arrested on 11/22.

Somebody forged the money order, and that same somebody forged the envelope w/ order coupon.

*

<Premise 1: Oswald wanted to buy a rifle but did not have one between March '63 and late September '63>

Agreed. And you offer very good support for that concept.

<Premise 2: Marina did take a photo of Oswald holding a rifle>

Quite probably. Question: Is this one of the photos Marguerite & Marina said they burned in their hotel room the night of the 23rd?

I can certainly see how such a photo would be taken in late October with a newly acquired rifle.

*

My brains are fairly well toasted at the moment, after about 12 hours of scrutinizing the Klein's rifle shipment conundrum.

The answer I find is that Klein's did indeed send it parcel post to Dallas (Waldman 7, their shipping form, is legit); they brought it to the Chicago post office, and the package likely went via train to Dallas; but in Dallas, this 5-foot package was not delivered to nor collected by Oswald aka Hidell.

i.e. in Dallas, it was taken out of the mail system, and likely given to whomever had forged the March 12 envelope w/ order coupon.

Once I get some rest I'll try to assemble the details of that.

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by greg parker on Sun 27 Mar 2011, 10:30 pm

<Premise 2: Marina did take a photo of Oswald holding a rifle>

Quite probably. Question: Is this one of the photos Marguerite & Marina said they burned in their hotel room the night of the 23rd?

I believe there was only one photo and this was it.

This is from Marguerite's testimony:

Mrs. OSWALD... I sensed we were alone. And there I was with a Russian girl. And I didn't want anybody to know who we were, because I knew my son had been picked up. So this is where the picture comes in. While there, Marina--there is an ashtray on the dressing table. And Marina comes with bits of paper, and puts them in the ashtray and strikes a match to it. And this is the picture of the gun that Marina tore up into bits of paper, and struck a match to it. Now, that didn't burn completely, because it was heavy--not cardboard--what is the name for it--a photographic picture. So the match didn't take it completely.

Mr. RANKIN. Had you said anything to her about burning it before that?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir. The last time I had seen the picture was in Marina's shoe when she was trying to tell me that the picture was in her shoe. I state here now that Marina meant for me to have that picture, from the very beginning, in Mrs. Paine's home. She said--I testified before "Mamma, you keep picture." And then she showed it to me in the courthouse. And when I refused it, then she decided to get rid of the picture. She tore up the picture and struck a match to it. Then I took it and flushed it down the toilet.

Mr. RANKIN. And what time was this?

Mrs. OSWALD. This--now, just a minute, gentlemen, because this I know is very important to me and to you, too. We had been in the jail. This was an evening. Well, this, then, would be approximately 5:30 or 6 in the evening.

Mr. RANKIN. What day?

Mrs. OSWALD. On Saturday, November 23. Now, I flushed the torn bits and the half-burned thing down the commode. And nothing was said. There was nothing said.
================
So Marguerite believed there was only the only photo taken and this one was burned and flushed.

But Marina's testimony isn't so cut and dry.

She testified that "At the time that I was questioned, I had even forgotten that I had taken two photographs. I thought there was only one. I thought that there were two identical pictures, but they turned out to be two different poses."

Marina was interviewed prior to Marguerite, so at this stage, Marina doesn't know that Marguerite will soon testify that the photo she saw had Oswald holding the rifle above his head, and apparently, there is nothing else of note in the photo (i.e. no newspapers or pistol).

These are the two poses Marina is talking about:



And those are the photos shown to Marguerite that she did not recognize.

All in all, I find Marguerite more believable across most issues, including this. One photo. Marina simply changed her mind about how many she took as more were found.

And speaking of finding things, we may have to rethink the the Oct 23rd date in conjunction with a rifle purchase again. In cruising the net looking for various bits of testimony, I found that Sylvia Meagher had put forward the proposition that the photo Marguerite saw was actually taken in Minsk and showed Oswald holding his shotgun above his head.

This theory has a lot going for it. It was transcribed "To my daughter, June." (and even Marina testified to that) June was born on Feb 15, 1962 and Marina got out of hospital with the baby on Feb 23. So maybe when Marina claimed she took the photo in late Feb or early March she was actually being truthful. Except it was late Feb or early March, 1962 - NOT 1963.

If Oswald acquired a rifle on October 23rd, 1963, and wrote anything on it, it would have been in regard to Rachel who had been born 3 days prior - or both his daughters - but not just June alone.

The "X" on Ruth's calendar for Oct 23 is possibly to signify when Rachel was due, or the date Marina and Rachel got out of Hospital... or had something to do with Walker's US Day rally. Obviously there could also be any number of other reasons for the "X" - yet no innocent reason (including the ones given here) would explain the contortions of Ruth's testimony surrounding that date.

-------------

So where are we now?

Forget photographic experts trying to prove the BY photos are fakes. IMO, the above does the job cleanly and clinically.

It also seems we can not have quite as much confidence that Oswald had possession of a rifle by late October.

Marina should have been recalled and questioned over Marguerite's description of the photo.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Mar 2011, 4:22 am

Excellent insights, and I'll have to ponder them further... Meanwhile:

PART I of III

I arrived at the following solution after spending about 4 hours postulating that somebody posing as Hidell showed up at Klein's in Chicago to pick up the rifle. That idea didn't pan out, but its failure illustrates how the process of faulty reasoning can lead to correct reasoning; this process can take several years with any issue in the JFK case. Anyone should feel free to point out any inherent flaws, which I don't see at this moment, in the logic of the following solution to the Klein's rifle shipment conundrum.

*

On the Tuesday morning of March 12, 1963, Oswald was working downtown at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, a few blocks from Dealey Plaza.Unbeknownst to him, somebody in postal zone 12 in Oak Cliff dropped an envelope into a mailbox. The envelope was from "A. Hidell, PO Box 2915, Dallas" to Klein's Sporting Goods, Chicago.

[The idea that Marina mailed this dosn't pan out- since there's no documentary evidence (and there should be) that Oswald ever received a reply from Klein's]

The envelope was collected and postmarked "10:30 AM". It went via airmail to Chicago and arrived there March 13. Inside the envelope was an order coupon for Klein's item C20-T750, a 36" rifle mounted with a 4-power scope. To pay for this, the envelope also contained an American Express money orderfor $21.45

WCD 7, p. 192 confirms this. Robert Wilmouth, VP of the First Nat'l Bank of Chicago, examined Klein's tally of receipts, dated March 13 (Waldman 10, XXI p. 706 and explained that "the $21.45 item <which> appeared on <the tally> between an item of $15.03 and an item of $14.36... was an American Express Company money order." He knew this since his bank returned AmEx money orders directly to the AmEx Company in New York.

The Warren Commission concluded (Report, p. 119; VII, pp. 367-368) that this $21.45 item on the March 13 Klein's tally was the accounting record of Hidell's payment. For some unexplained reason, the Commission published a 2nd tally (XXI, p. 707) which also listed a $21.45 item. But this 2nd tally is undated and could have pertained to anything.

*

On March 13, once the mailman had delivered the envelope to Klein's at 4540 W. Madison St., it was handled in some way similar to this:

The order-processing clerk put it in the "InBox" pile on her desk (She also had an "Orders Being Processed" pile and "OutBox" pile). When she got to that envelope and opened it, she pulled out the order coupon and AmEx money order, and ascertained that the customer was seeking an available Klein's product and had prepaid for it with legitimate money.

She fills out some type of in-house requisition slip- this will go down to the warehouse. She sends the AmEx money order straight to the financial department (My guess is that there's no microfilm copy of the Hidell payment method because Klein's was in the habit of processing money received right away, and didn't make a Xerox/mimeograph copy of any check/money order since the company also received cash in the mail). She puts the order coupon & envelope in the "Orders Being Processed" pile.

The shipping department guy receives the in-house requisition slip. He ascertains the product requested, C20-T750, and goes to a crate in the warehouse and fishes out a 36" rifle w/ 4X scope. It has the serial number C-2766 and has been assigned an inventory control number VC836. He begins filling out a shipping order form (Waldman 7, XXI p. 703). He grabs some corrugated paper and packs it around the scope, and places the 36" rifle w/ scope in a 5-foot carton (WCD 7, p. 185). It is stamped "Fragile Handle With Care No. 48".

On Wednesday, March 20, this carton gets loaded onto a truck and driven to the Chicago post office. Once business there has been settled (we'll return there in a bit) the shipping department guy circles the "PP" in the upper right of the shipping order form. The carton has been sent to the customer via Parcel Post.

He returns the completed shipping order form to the order-processing clerk and throws the in-house requisition slip in the wastebasket. She places the shipping order form & the order coupon & the envelope in her "OutBox" pile.

At the end of the work day this OutBox pile goes into a file cabinet. Periodically, once the cabinets get full, their contents are taken out and microfilmed; Klein's saves space and still keeps a record of their customers & transactions. And so the records of the Hidell transaction end up on microfilm; Hidell's method of payment had gone almost immediately to the financial department; they would tally that up; and so his method of payment doesn't get microfilmed.

*

Fast forward to the night of November 22. At 10:00 PM Chicago FBI agents Robert Dolan, John Toedt, James Mahan arrive at Klein's. The Bureau has already learned, from Louis Feldsott of Crescent Firearms, that a rifle with serial number C-2766 was shipped to Klein's. The suspected assassin has IDs for both Lee Harvey Oswald and Alek James Hidell. These FBI agents are seeking any trace of these two IDs in Klein's records.

They scour the records on Klein's twp microfilm machines, and at 4:00 AM finally locate the HIdell trnasaction (VII, p. 370). They take custody of this microfilm spool. They file a report dated 11/23, dictated 11/26 (WCD 7, p. 187). This spool will get flown from Chicago to FBI HQ in Washington on Feb. 3, 1964 (HSCA 180-10033-10431, FBI 105-825551721). This spool doesn't reappear again until Klein's employees testify to the Commission on May 20.

Did the FBI monkey with this microfilm? I.e. Is the Klein's shipping order form a forgery?

*

The answer is no, despite the opportunity for forgery (which the FBI did plenty of in the JFK case). It will become clear that, in order to frame Oswald for the Klein's rifle purchase, there was no need to forge this shipping order form.

WCD 87 is a 6-page report from Chicago Secret Service agent Edward Tucker, dated 11/25, investigating this Hidell transaction at Klein's. On p. 90 it states that Tucker arrived at Klein's at 1:45 PM on 11/23 (about 9 hours after the FBI agents had left).

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Mar 2011, 5:08 am

PART II of III

On WCD 87, p. 94:

It should be noted that copies of the documents mentioned above as follows:

(1) Copy of envelope postmarked Dallas March 12, 1963, addressed to Klein's Sporting Goods, Chicago, and bearing return address of A. Hidell, P.O. Box 2915, Dallas, Texas, with enclosed order blank form from "American Rifleman".
(2) Copy of order blank from Klein's Sporting Goods reflecting Italian carbine 6.5 MM with 4 power scope and mount forwarded to A. Hidell 3-20-63.
(3) Copy of Klein's deposit slip to the First National Bank of Chicago for 3-15-63.
(4) Copy of inventory list of merchandise received by Klein's from Crescent Firearms, Inc., and reflecting inventory number VC836 to be cross referenced to serial no. C-2766.

These were all forwarded to Dallas and the Chief's Office by O/M by Special Agents Griffiths and Tucker on 11-23-63

In other words, Klein's microfilm machines were of the typical style in use today- copies could be made of any page in the spool (I did this in college in the early 70's). The FBI agents had printed out copies of the shipping order form & order coupon & envelope, and copies had remained at Klein'swhen they left the premises with the spool- only this didn't get mentioned in their report, nor in any Commission testimony.

At VII, p. 371, on May 20, David Belin asks operation manager Mitchell Scibor if he had ever seen the completed shipping form before, and Scibor answers "Yes". Unfortunately Belin didn't specify when, but it wasn't a trick question; Scibor had seen it on November 23.

*

Back to the Chicago post office on March 20. Klein's was obliged to provide (I think by the Uniform Commercial Code) some sort of invoice that described the contents of the 5-foot carton, be it a baseball bat, golf club, or firearm. And since it was a firearm, Klein's also was obliged to provide a "Statement by Shipper of Firearms" (postal form 1508). The 1508 is required to be retained for one year: http://www.usps.com/forms_pdf/ps1508.pdf

and I would think it would be retained at the receiving post office (not the sending post office), whether the 5-foot carton was addressed to PO Box 2915 or 214 Neely St; the receiving post office would need to be informed that the carton contained a firearm.

And I would think that this invoice & form 1508 would be attached to the carton before the Chicago post office loaded it onto a train (the most economical means of transporting freight) bound for Dallas. For discussion purposes, let's say the train trip takes 2 days. It arrives on Friday, March 22.

*

The carton arrives, of all places, at the Triple Underpass in Dealey Plaza, at the Union Terminal Building. Since its destination is PO Box 2915, it gets placed onto a postal truck that will drive it only a couple hundred yards away, to the Dallas GPO in the Terminal Annex Building.

On March 22 there is a 5-foot carton containing a

36" rifle, serial number C-2766 in the Dallas GPO, addressed to A. Hidell, PO Box 2915, but it never gets delivered to the renter of PO Box 2915.

Box 2915 has been rented by Lee Harvey Oswald since October 9, 1962. But he never authorized anyone but himself to receive mail there- not Alek Hidell, Vladimir Lenin, nor Suzy Creamcheese. And the portion of his PO Box application that specified who was authorized to receive mail there was destroyed, in violation of postal law, which required that it be retained at the post office for 3 years.

And the invoice & form 1508 that should have been attached to the 5-foot carton were also destroyed.

Another missing document was postal form 2162, which Oswald aka Hidell would have been required to fill out, and the post office retain for 4 years, had he ever showed up at the main counter to receive a 5-foot carton containing a firearm. Another missing document was a Texas "Certificate of Good Character" that Oswald would have been obliged to provide the ostal clerk at the main counter.

But he never showed up to collect this carton because he never even knew about it.

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Mar 2011, 5:44 am

PART III

The person who was responsible for not notifying Oswald about this carton was Postal Inspector Harry Holmes. This admitted FBI informant had been monitoring Oswald's PO Box 2915 since October, checking for subversive literature and correspondence from Russia that the returned defector might be receiving. There are 2 options:

A) Holmes notified his FBI contact (James Hosty?) that Oswald had been mailed a rifle using an alias: Hidell. The FBI contact instructed Holmes not to deliver it and took custody of the carton w/ rifle.

B) Holmes was in on the plan to frame Oswald, to pin a crime on him involving this rifle (not necessarily knowing of any conspiracy plan to murder JFK). Motive being: that'll teach you, you commie. So Holmes actually gave this rifle to a framer, i.e. it ended up with whomever had forged the order coupon & envelope (or it ended up with someone this forger was collaborating with).

The backyard photos at Neely St. will soon be taken, meaning that Roscoe White will soon pose for a photographer (Ruth Paine?) and use the same Imperial Relex camera to copy-photo a picture of Oswald's face onto White's body.

And, last but not least, the 36" rifle will soon enough be missing in action. There is at this time a 40" rifle of the same style, a Carcano, without a serial number. By November 22 it will be stamped C-2766 and be planted on the 6th floor of the Book Depository. My guess as to the reason for this size switch is that a 40" Carcano was employed on 11/22 on the 2nd floor of the Dal-Tex, and the CIA was covering its bases as to potential rifle sightings & ammo recovered from the limousine.

*

To recapitulate, Klein's did indeed send a rifle via parcel post to Dallas; likely via train; but in Dallas, this 5-foot carton was not delivered to nor collected by Oswald aka Hidell. In Dallas it was taken out of the mail system and likely given to whomever had forged the March 12 order coupon & envelope.

Oswald's whereabouts at the time the envelope was mailed are firmly established, and it becomes nonsensical (since there's no evidence he ever picked up this carton) to think Marina mailed it for him. His handprinting & handwriting was quite non-idiosyncratic and easy to forge.

I'm comfortable with this hypothesis that the un-bank-stamped postal money order & order coupon & envelope were all forgeries, and Oswald never knew about this 5-foot package from Klein's. Further refinements are always handy.

By the way, David Josephs' sharp eye found that the N'S on the KLEIN'S pay-to-the-order-of stamp on the postal money order is different from the stamp sample that William Waldman demonstrated for the Commission. So I would guess that the forger & accomplices- having no other way to attribute a payment method to Hidell- needed to create a replica stamper and rush it to the Dallas GPO on November 23.

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Tue 29 Mar 2011, 3:11 am

I think I've cracked the X-code to Ruth Paine's calendar! Which leads us to the real meaning of the X in the box for October 23!

X? January 28
(24 days later) X am February 21
(28) X March 21
(26) X- 12:00 noon April 16
(29) X am May 15
(26) X am June 9
(27) X July 7
(27) X August 3
(28) X August 31
(25) X September 25
(28) X October 23

Every 25-29 days, a mysterious X is written into Ruth's calendar day boxes. Very little further description is provided. My theory is that she is keeping track of something that men say they understand, and think they understand; but they don't, they don't understand. They never will, and they never can. cheers

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by greg parker on Tue 29 Mar 2011, 9:18 am

Richard Gilbride wrote:I think I've cracked the X-code to Ruth Paine's calendar! Which leads us to the real meaning of the X in the box for October 23!

X? January 28
(24 days later) X am February 21
(28) X March 21
(26) X- 12:00 noon April 16
(29) X am May 15
(26) X am June 9
(27) X July 7
(27) X August 3
(28) X August 31
(25) X September 25
(28) X October 23

Every 25-29 days, a mysterious X is written into Ruth's calendar day boxes. Very little further description is provided. My theory is that she is keeping track of something that men say they understand, and think they understand; but they don't, they don't understand. They never will, and they never can. cheers

Well done! So... nothing to do with rifle purchase or Walker's US Day Rally. It was all about reminders to restock the beer fridge for Michael's visits... ???

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Tue 29 Mar 2011, 12:06 pm

What may be most significant about the X-pattern is that there should be one 27, 28, or 29 days after October 23: on November 19, 20 or 21. But Ruth stops keeping track in November. Something else going on then that was diverting her attention?

Sylvia Meagher's conjecture about the photo spoken of by Marina & Marguerite that had Oswald holding a rifle over his head, that this photo was taken in Minsk, suits me fine unless a better idea comes along. The point being that it was a non-backyard photo.

I wonder if this is the one that got pasted into June's baby album; taken out and shown by Marina to Marguerite at the Paine house the night of November 22; hid in Marina's shoe and burned in the Executive Inn hotel toilet the night of November 23.

On 11/29 Secret Service agent Leon Gopadze showed Marina the backyard photos (XXIII, p. 398); "she did not advise at the time that she had the same pictures but <instead had some> in smaller sizes pasted in her family album <;> but upon the suggestion of Mrs. Marguerite Oswald she destroyed them"

In an FBI report from early March (XXIII, p. 400), Marina says on Feb. 27 : "She stated that she could only recall that she snapped the camera one time but stated she must have snapped it twice because there were two different poses of OSWALD with the rifle."

Marina's HSCA testimony, Vol. II p. 239: "So I took one picture, I think, and maybe he changed the pose, I don't recall. Maybe I took two pictures"

And you may have already pointed this out, Greg, but her testimony at WCH I p. 79 says:
"On the next day <11/23> I destroyed one photograph which I had. I think I had two small ones <i.e. made up of that one photograph>. When we were in the hotel I burned it ... <Marguerite > saw it, while I was destroying them."

And of course Marguerite testified she never even recognized the backyard photos (WCH I, p. 148):
RANKIN: Did you ever see these pictures, Exhibits 133 and 134?
MARGUERITE: No, sir, I have never seen these pictures

*****

So it seems to me that a photo of Oswald holding a rifle over his head got printed in smaller-size duplicate, addressed to June by her father, and pasted in the family album. This photo, i.e. these two small photos, are what got destroyed at the Executive Inn on the night of November 23.

Although Meagher's idea may be the best lead for the moment, it seems quite possible that LHO came into possession of a rifle that autumn of 1963; maybe there was just no photo taken of that.

My guess right now is that Ruth Paine learned on October 23 that Hidell aka LHO had been sent a rifle March 20. By the way, wasn't the US Day rally the one where Madame Nhu was presented with a bunch of flowers by General Walker, and proceeded to launch into a tirade against US (ie JFK) policies? And the event was sponsored by HL Hunt, as I recall.

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Wed 30 Mar 2011, 1:02 am

Ruth Paine lied when she testified she heard on television on November 23 that the Klein's rifle had been shipped to LHO on March 20. The DPD didn't know this until the evening of 11/23, and they would have learned this from information obtained from the Klein's shipping form. And this shipping order had been on a Klein's microfilm spool (and previously in a Klein's filing cabinet) until the morning of November 23.

Therefore, Ruth obtained her knowledge that the Klein's rifle had been sent March 20 from someone at the Dallas GPO. They would have known that the Chicago post office had sent the 5-foot carton on March 20, via some sort of dated postal freight stamp. And this carton could not have arrived in Dallas until at least March 21, and probably March 22.

So, Ruth was privy to the plan to frame LHO, that plab being to send a rifle to LHO's PO Box 2915 using the alias A. Hidell. And she has to be considered the prime candidate for being the forger of the order coupon & envelope, and later the postal money order.

And in this regard, it's telling that Marina disavowed writing the "Hunter of fascists Ha-Ha-Ha" comment written on the back of George DeMohrenschildt's backyard photo. She told the HSCA that the Cyrillic script was too formalized (Vol. II, p. 243): "this is something like maybe foreigner would try to write it, you know, to copy Russian language."

And it's also telling that in the November 9 Comrade Kostin letter: the typed version (XVI, p. 33) contains 6 words spelled incorrectly, the handwritten rough draft (XVI pp. 443-444) contains these 6 words spelled correctly (the typed text w/ corrections is at WCD 385 pp. 320-321), the letter was traced to a one-time use of a Smith-Corona typewriterallegedly owned by Ruth Paine, it described insider knowledge concerning the replacement of the Mexico City Cuban Consulate chief officer, the rough draft was allegedly discovered "lying around the house" by Ruth Paine (WCD 5 p. 196), with the typed version sent to the Soviet Embassy containing the mistaken maiden name of Marina (Nichilayova instead of Nikolaevna Prusakova) and the mistaken name of his newborn daughter (Audrey Marina Oswald instead of Audrey Marina Rachel Oswald).

All of these factors have led researchers to long-suspect that Ruth Paine forged at least the corrections to the rough draft, if not the whole rough draft & typed letter.
And she's also in the middle of the mix of the Klein's order coupon & envelope, and DeMohrenschildt backyard photo; and has to be considered the prime candidate for forgery in all 3 incidents

Apparently the Paine opium-smuggling dynasty that had a home on Naushon Island off the coast of Woods Hole, Massachusetts, was not very fond of the Kennedy clan over in Hyannisport.

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Wed 30 Mar 2011, 3:50 am

Richard and Greg

My brain has just exploded in utter amazement.

Richard, do you think the DeMohrenschildt BYP was sent before or after the assassination?

Lee

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Wed 30 Mar 2011, 5:41 am

Lee,

As far as I can recall about the discovery of the DeMohrenschildt BYP, it was found in 1967 in a storage unit where he'd left his things when leaving for Haiti in April of 1963. It makes more sense to me that it was planted there in 1963, after he'd gone there (and so before the assassination). It was a 3rd pose, not quite the same as the 2 that turned up in Ruth Paine's garage shortly after the assassination.

So in order to plant it, the perpetrators of this scam needed the location of the storage unit and a duplicate key to the Master lock or whatever that secured his unit.
I think the perpetrators realized that LHO's best friend would return to the USA someday, and once he did, they'd have even stronger propaganda against LHO as the lone nut assassin, since now there would be another BYP and it looked like this one was actually signed by Marina.

The onus is on Ruth Paine to exonerate herself of these 3 forgery incidents.

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Wed 30 Mar 2011, 12:06 pm

So, to repeat, Ruth Paine obtained the information that the Klein's rifle had been sent March 20 from a dated postal freight stamp on the 5-foot carton. She of course could have learned this any time after the carton's arrival in Dallas, but very likely learned it almost as soon as it arrived.

It has occurred to me that the reason "Oct 23" is written in regard to "LHO purchase of rifle" is that this possibly was the day, October 23, that the 40" Carcano (which will be planted in the TSBD) was brought to the Paine home and wrapped in that lovely green-and-white striped blanket Ruth had in the garage.

So by October 23 a C-2766 serial number has been stamped onto the 40" Carcano.
No idea as to the fate of the 36" Carcano that was ordered, but it likely never was brought to the Paine home.

So on March 12 when the Carcano was requested via the mail, the conspirators had a guaranteed method of framing a rifle's serial number to LHO; whatever random serial number was received, it would be transferred onto a blank Carcano.

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by greg parker on Wed 30 Mar 2011, 12:41 pm

Richard, you may well be right. At least it fits what we currently know.

I'm just waiting on Lee to confirm interest in the other matter. He doesn't check email very regularly...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
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Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Thu 31 Mar 2011, 12:18 pm

As an addendum, about the forged postal money order:

The conspirators would have been better off leaving the issue of Hidell's payment method alone, but apparently weren't sure whether or not Klein's made photocopies of its financial records. This insecurity led them to carry out the forgery of the postal money order- an "overkill" step in the planning for the rifle frameup of LHO- and they made mistakes as a result.

The money order, #2,202,130,462 came form an unused stack in the Dallas GPO that shouldn't have been issued until late 1964 or early 1965. Its stub disappeared- and it should have been retained for theri transaction records.

It almost certainly was forged on the afternoon of November 23. While a fruitless search was going on then at the Federal Postal Money Order Center in Kansas City, where it should have been routed, Dallas Postal Inspector Harry Holmes advised the Chief Inspector in Washington that #2,202,130,462 could be found up there (Harvey & Lee p. 465, citing VII p. 295 & FBI Airtel from SAC Dallas to Director, 11/23/63 9:46 PM). And indeed, it soon turned up at the Federal Records Center in Alexandria, Virginia.

The timing of Holmes' serendipitious advice is a strong indication that the forgery was not begun until word had been received (likely via the Dallas FBI) that a Klein's shipping order & Hidell order coupon & envelope had been located in Chicago. The "go" order to commence the forgery was not given until these Klein's documents were located.

The question still unanswered concerns the Klein's stamp on the back of the money order: "Pay to the Order of The First National Bank of Chicago 50 91144 KLEIN'S SPORTING GOODS, INC." A careful comparison of the money order (XVII p. 677) with a Klein's stamp sample that William Waldman provided for the Commission (XXI p. 705) shows that the apostrophe in the N'S of the money order is dash-shaped & vertical & sits midway between the two letters, whereas in the N'S of the sample it is comma-shaped & slants leftward into the N.

The Klein's stamps come from two different stampers, and in order to forge the money order, a replica stamper had to be created & ready to use on November 23, once the "go" order was given.

How did the forgers obtain a template- a previous instance of the use of this Klein's stamp- from which to fashion a replica stamper? Apparently not from the records of Klein's, but from the records of the First National Bank of Chicago: some check or money order that Klein's had previously sent there. This would not require a theft of records or staged federal investigation at the Chicago First National Bank.

As one example, any Chicago-area CIA agent who did his banking there could write a check for a dozen golf balls; in 1963 cancelled checks were eventually routed back to the owner of the checking account. I'm sure there are numerous other variants in the ways financial transactions are conducted that would give the forgers a template; the replica likely was fashioned at CIA HQ in Langley.

This replica ends up in Ruth Paine's purse on November 23, and is used in the Dallas GPO once she has forged A. Hidell's information on the postal money order.

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by greg parker on Sun 03 Apr 2011, 8:22 pm

Richard,

sorry I've been neglecting this. I need to clear my head and really let sink in what you've put together here.

I personally suspect Ruth of forging the "Walker" letter and if you go back and look at the thread dealing with Oswald's Russian writing, (IIRC) you'll see that there is maybe grounds for such suspicion.

What is really needed is not only a questioned document examiner, but someone who specializes in forensic linguistics.

_________________
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I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Mon 04 Apr 2011, 11:08 pm

That makes great sense to me- that Ruth Paine forged the Walker letter. Which didn't turn up until November 30, and Marina's testimony about allegedly finding it is even more specious than her BYP testimony. Ruth's handwriting warrants a serious comparison w/ the note. And w/ the Kostin letter, DeMohrenschildt BYP, and Hidell transactions to Kleins. I've started a preliminary search for examples of Ruth's English or Russian handwriting but without luck yet. Much gratitude if you know where these might be.

As a footnote about the DeMohrenschildt BYP (and I had meant to check this quote at HSCA Vol. II p. 242 before I logged in), Marina said that it sounded like something she would say (i.e. Hunter of fascists, ha ha ha), but she denied ever writing it. That points the finger straight at someone in her immediate milieu: Ruth.

I would like to look over this thread you mention, IIRC, but don't know what that stands for. Could you also provide the title of this thread if able?



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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by greg parker on Tue 05 Apr 2011, 9:08 pm

Richard Gilbride wrote:That makes great sense to me- that Ruth Paine forged the Walker letter. Which didn't turn up until November 30, and Marina's testimony about allegedly finding it is even more specious than her BYP testimony. Ruth's handwriting warrants a serious comparison w/ the note. And w/ the Kostin letter, DeMohrenschildt BYP, and Hidell transactions to Kleins. I've started a preliminary search for examples of Ruth's English or Russian handwriting but without luck yet. Much gratitude if you know where these might be.

As a footnote about the DeMohrenschildt BYP (and I had meant to check this quote at HSCA Vol. II p. 242 before I logged in), Marina said that it sounded like something she would say (i.e. Hunter of fascists, ha ha ha), but she denied ever writing it. That points the finger straight at someone in her immediate milieu: Ruth.

I would like to look over this thread you mention, IIRC, but don't know what that stands for. Could you also provide the title of this thread if able?

Richard,

I have bumped the thread discussing Oswald Russian skills. IIRC = if I recall correctly...

_________________
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I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Tue 05 Apr 2011, 10:15 pm

Thanks on the bump; a lot of careful thought on this thread and I'll be studying it slowly when I'm in a calmer frame of mind. I actually have a layman's grasp of Russian; I composed 2 correspondence letters in Cyrillic to Moscow & Kiev women through a 1993 dating service while on a ship in Alaska; presently have a small Berlitz phrase book I look at on rare occasions.

For future reference, I found several (too many) examples of Ruth Paine's Russian handwriting; Warren volume 17 is the place to go; very good quality copies of her letters are at pp. 82-85, 93-98, 102-112, 140-147.

A very good copy of her English handwriting is at XVII pp. 150-153. Her English hand-printing is harder to obtain, usually it's a printed address in one of her letters to Marina; in the Warren exhibit at XVII pp. 145-147, for one example, and also at XVI pp. 233, 251, 280.

My scanner still isn't working, despite about 10 attempts to reinstall the Hewlett-Packard software program. I may have to get a new unit this summer. It would be handy to be able to magnify & compare individual letters, to see whether Ruth Paine has forged what she's suspected of forging (and was capable of forging). But the opinion of a professional documents examiner, in a blind submission, would convince doubters.

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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by greg parker on Fri 08 Apr 2011, 10:52 pm

Maybe our Russian speaking member will jump back in with some further analysis.

On the subject of the photo shown to Marguerite and then destroyed the next day - I think one of the key pieces of testimony on it came from Marguerite, but was not mentioned by Marina...

Now, gentlemen, this is some very important facts. My daughter-in-law spoke to Mrs. Paine in Russian, "Mamma." she says. So she takes me into the bedroom and closes the door. She said, "Mamma, I show you." She opened the closet, and in the closet was a lot of books and papers. And she came out with a picture a picture of Lee, with a gun. It said, "To my daughter June"-written in English.

It's clear from that testimony that Ruth Paine knew about this photo taken in Minsk, and well understood at that time that it would be destroyed. With that photo gone (taken with a camera that could not be used in the US because of film size), the door was now wide open for those in the know, to manufacture photos that, unlike this one, would actually be incriminating - and could be traced to the "right" camera. And if memory serves, the Paine house had a room Michael used for photo development.

The upshot... one innocent photo taken in Minsk in March of '62 and inscribed to the new born daughter, June, became multiple incriminating photos taken [allegedly] in March of '63.

Which is why Marina had to make up the bs about being mistaken on the number of shots she took, and tried to explain it away by saying she must have accidentally double clicked. Have a good look at the two photos posted to this thread. There is no way either was taken accidentally.

I can see it now... "did you take a photo of your husband holding any guns in March, Marina?"

"Why yes, I did..."

And it wasn't a lie... as far as it went...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
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Re: Ruth Paine's Calendar

Post by Guest on Sat 09 Apr 2011, 11:46 am

I'm also thoroughly convinced that a previous photo (and the likelihood is good that it was taken in Minsk) got printed up in duplicate and pasted into June's baby album. I hadn't understood Ruth Paine's awareness of these photos before- but can see from Marguerite's testimony that Marina & Ruth are having a private conversation in Russian immediately preceding Marguerite being shown the photos, and in all likelihood this private conversation was about these baby album photos.

These photos (plural) morphed into the backyard photos, and Ruth's duplicitous awareness of these baby photos certainly helps the case that she planted the backyard photos. And I see her as not only coming into possession of them, but perhaps involved in snapping them at Neely Street in late March.

And wonder whether the timing of this backyard photo-taking was related to the original timing (season of the year) in the baby album photos; i.e. it was staged for a time when the trees were bare and just beginning to bud, as was clear from the Minsk baby album photos. And if the Minsk photos were in summer, the rifle would have been ordered in summer.

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