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Kenneth Croy redux

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Kenneth Croy redux

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 1:03 am

Yet another thread of mine from the Webs' ROKC forum:

Two years ago at the “old” ROKC forum, Lee Farley started a fascinating thread on Kenneth Hudson Croy. Croy was a Sergeant in the Dallas Police reserves who was not only (apparently) the first DPD officer to arrive at the murder scene of J. D. Tippit, but was also in close proximity to Jack Ruby just before he shot Oswald. Before reading what follows, I HIGHLY recommend you first read through Lee’s thread:

As demonstrated in that thread, there is good reason to be very suspicious of Croy. After reading through Lee’s thread and after doing my own research, I think Croy’s dishonesty even gives Gerald Hill a run for his money. There are three reasons why I wanted to start this thread. The first was to voice my opinion that one of Croy’s roles on the day of the assassination, was to perhaps bring the wallet containing identification for Oswald and Hidell to the Tippit murder scene, in order to frame Oswald. As the Gilbride pointed out in Lee’s thread, Croy apparently told researcher Jones Harris in 2002 that an unidentified citizen had handed him (Croy) the wallet; after which Croy handed it over to Sgt. Calvin “Bud” Owens who was then filmed by WFAA-TV cameraman, Ron Reiland, showing it to Captain George Doughty.
In the 2013 edition of his book “With Malice,” Dale Myers writes that Croy told him during an interview in 2009 that a witness said that Tippit’s killer “threw the billfold away” after he fled the murder scene. Croy also allegedly told Myers that he looked at the identification inside the wallet/billfold, and that “None of them had any photographs or the name Lee Harvey Oswald on them.” But Croy also wrote down the following for former FBI analyst, Farris Rookstool; “First on the scene, recovered Oswald's wallet there, too”
http://legacy.wfaa.com/story/news/features/2014/08/19/14131868/
So in the Rookstool version, Croy is more or less saying that the wallet did contain identification for Oswald. Although what Croy allegedly told Myers in 2009 may simply have been due to faulty memory on Croy’s part, given the suspicions Lee has pointed out about him; and that it was he who (evidently) handed the wallet to Sgt. Owens after it was supposedly given to him by an unidentified witness, I think it is possible that Croy brought the wallet with him when he arrived at the murder scene.

The second thing I wanted to discuss was the “private detective agency” Croy spoke of when he testified before the Warren Commission. Myers writes in the 2013 edition of his book that after Ted Callaway took off with Tippit’s service revolver inside William Scoggins cab to search for Tippit’s killer, a “private security officer” named Kenneth M. Holmes (whom Myers claims had been a Dallas County deputy Sheriff) chased after Scoggins and Callaway, and retrieved Tippit’s revolver. According to Myers, it was Holmes who gave the revolver to Croy. Myers writes that Holmes’ car was equipped with “a number of radio receivers monitoring Dallas police and Sheriff deputy broadcasts,” and that this is how Holmes learned that Tippit had been shot. Myers also writes that when Holmes arrived at the murder scene, a woman “in near hysterics” ran up to his car and told him that Tippit’s killer had taken off inside a taxi.

In the following photograph of Oswald’s arrest by Stuart L. Reed, we can see a man standing at about the middle of the photograph wearing a grey Stetson hat, a red tie, and a greyish-blue jacket, with his head tilted slightly to his right. According to Myers, this man is Kenneth M. Holmes:

http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=905&fullsize=1
Although I don’t advocate for even a nano-second that we should take what a dishonest twat like Myers writes at face value, I nevertheless wanted to point this information out to anyone who has never heard of Holmes.

The third (and most significant) reason why I wanted to start this thread was to discuss Croy’s involvement in Oswald’s murder. As Lee pointed out in his thread, Croy told the FBI that on the morning of November 24, 1963, he went down to the DPD basement on his “own volition” to help out with security. He also admitted to the Warren Commission that he wasn’t assigned to “guard” any particular area of the basement:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10488&search=Kenneth_Hudson+Croy#relPageId=102&tab=page
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=7795&search=Mr_Croy+I+went+to+the+assembly+room#relPageId=198&tab=page
In the following footage of Oswald being shot by Ruby, we can see a uniformed police Sergeant standing behind the line of reporters on the right side of the camera; near the foot of the north/main street ramp of the basement. We know he is a Sergeant because he has Sergeant Stripes on his left sleeve. I am certain this man is Croy for the following reasons. Croy wrote in his affidavit to the DPD that he “stationed” himself at the “foot of the north end of the ramp in the basement.” He also acknowledged to the Warren Commission that he had “stationed” himself at the foot of the north/main street ramp (see the above link to Croy’s testimony).  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6PcVCqg3tg

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/30/3085-001.gif
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/30/3085-002.gif
The Sergeant we see in the aforementioned footage of Oswald being shot is standing near the foot of the north/main street ramp of the basement. Furthermore, Croy wrote in his affidavit that he was “approximately in the middle of the ramp between the wall and the rail.” This appears to be where we see the uniformed Sergeant standing in the aforementioned footage of Oswald being shot by Ruby.

Another thing to take into account is the footage of Croy in the Ron Reiland film. From about the 1 minute mark to the 1 minute 8 second mark, we can see a uniformed officer (identified as being Croy by Dale Myers) standing almost directly in front of Reiland’s camera:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMUNxQH2aIQ

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: Kenneth Croy redux

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 1:05 am

If you compare the face and head of the uniformed Sergeant in the footage of Oswald being shot to Croy’s face and head in the Reiland film, I think you will see that they are quite similar. They also appear to have a similar facial expression. Therefore, my money is on Croy being the uniformed Sergeant we see in the footage of Oswald being shot. I am also unaware of any other uniformed Sergeant who was stationed near the foot of the north/main street ramp as Croy was.

Croy told the FBI that “Just prior to Oswald’s appearance, an unknown officer in plain clothes came out of the jail office and told the press to move back.” Croy then said that he turned to his left and told two men (one of whom he thought was Jack Ruby) to “step” back; and that after doing so, he looked back towards the jail office and then “glanced back” to see if the two men had “complied” with his order. According to Croy, Oswald was brought out about 15 or 20 seconds after he looked back again at the crowd by the jail office (see the above link to Croy’s interview with the FBI).

Croy also told the Warren Commission that “just prior” to Oswald being brought out; a detective in plainclothes emerged from the jail office and said “move the press back against the railing,” after which he (Croy) supposedly told the two men mentioned above to move back against the rail:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=7795&search=Mr_Croy+told+them+to+move+back+against+the+rail#relPageId=202&tab=page
Unless someone can point out another detective to me, I believe the detective Croy was referring to is Lieutenant Richard E. Swain from the burglary and theft bureau. If it is Swain, then there are huge problems for Croy’s story. In the aforementioned footage of Oswald being shot, we can see Swain ahead of Captain Fritz just before Oswald is brought out by Leavelle and Graves. In his report to Jesse Curry, Swain wrote that after he came out of the jail office, he moved “the crowd of photographers and newsman backward.” In the following footage, we can see Swain directing the photographers and newsman to move back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_viK8qOfw

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/32/3245-002.gif

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/32/3245-001.gif

If you watch the first footage I linked to, you can see Ruby standing behind detective William “Blackie” Harrison and looking over Harrison’s left shoulder as Swain and Fritz are walking away from the Jail office. Furthermore, if you follow Croy’s head and cap, he does not turn to his left to tell anyone to move backwards; nor can he be seen glancing over his left shoulder. Croy also wrote in his affidavit to the DPD that Ruby had run past him towards the crowd in a crouched position; and that he made a grab for Ruby to try and stop him. Croy repeated this claim during his interview with the FBI and when he testified before the Warren Commission. Croy also described the way Ruby was running as being akin to a “fullback.” But as the footage of Oswald being shot shows, Croy is (to put it bluntly) full of shit.

Although some may argue that Croy simply lied to cover his backside for not preventing Ruby from shooting Oswald, given the various lies he told (as Lee pointed out in his excellent thread); and the fact that he arrived very quickly at the Tippit murder scene and had handled the wallet/billfold containing identification for Oswald and Hidell, I’m afraid I can’t agree. I think he had foreknowledge that Ruby was going to shoot Oswald. Let’s now consider the following.

Charles Oliver Arnett was a Captain in the DPD reserves. In his affidavit to the DPD, Croy pointed out that Arnett was standing to his right just before “Someone in authority gave instructions to move the press back against the rail.” Croy also told the Warren Commission that Arnett was standing to his right. If you watch the footage of Oswald being shot, you can see someone with a white cap to Croy’s right; close to the wall. I am certain this is Captain Arnett (Arnett told the Warren Commission that he was wearing a cap). We should also bear in mind that detective “Blackie” Harrison told the Warren Commission that Arnett was standing to his rear:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=7795&search=Mr_Harrison+Toward+the+west+wall#relPageId=262&tab=page
This is where things start to get really interesting (for me anyway). Although Arnett claimed that he was positioned near the foot of the north/main street ramp of the basement, as far as I am aware, he never mentioned that Croy was standing to his left in any report or interview. The following are Arnett’s report to Jesse Curry, his interview with Lt. F. I. Cornwall and Lt. Jack Revill from the DPD, and his interview with the FBI on December 4, 1963:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/30/3047-002.gif
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/30/3047-001.gif
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/30/3048-001.gif
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10488&search=Captain_Charles+Arnett#relPageId=57&tab=page
When Arnett was asked during his testimony before the Warren Commission if there was anybody directly to his left, he remarked “There was another reporter with a pencil and pad to my left. Then I said Captain [Glen] King and another man beyond him that I don’t know.” Shortly afterwards when Burt Griffin asked Arnett if there was anyone between King and the railing, Arnett remarked “There was one person, but I couldn’t tell you whether he was in civilian clothes or who they were or anything about it.”


http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=7795&search=Mr_Arnett+but+I+couldnt+tell+you+whether+he+was+in+civilian+clothes+or+who+they+were+or+anything+about+it#relPageId=160&tab=page

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: Kenneth Croy redux

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 1:06 am

First of all, I cannot see anybody who looks like King (or anyone else) standing near Croy and Arnett in the aforementioned footage of Oswald being shot. Secondly, King wrote in his report to Jesse Curry that he was standing “on the west side of the driveway near where the ramp to Commerce street starts up” when he heard the shot. King also informed the FBI that he was “up on the west side” of the Commerce street ramp when he heard the shot. So why the hell did Arnett say that King (and a reporter) was standing to his left? IMO, it was probably to give the impression that this is why he didn’t notice Croy standing to his left.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/31/3158-001.gif
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10488&search=Glen_King#relPageId=40&tab=page
When Arnett testified before the Warren Commission, he also claimed that at the time Oswald was “moved out,” he was directly next to detective “Blackie” Harrison and looking over Harrison’s right shoulder. Furthermore, when he was asked “You were about 4 inches away from Blackie Harrison?” he stated “I would say something like that.”

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=7795&search=Mr_Arnett+4+inches+away#relPageId=162&tab=page
This is absolute garbage, because as we can see in the footage of Oswald being shot, the nearest officer in uniform to Harrison was the sergeant whom I am certain is Kenneth Croy. So why the hell did Arnett say that he was standing right next to Harrison when Oswald was brought out by Leavelle and Graves, and why is it that he made no mention of Croy (who worked under him in the DPD reserves) being near him? Did he just forget all about Croy, or was he perhaps “hiding” him from the Warren Commission? IMO, the answer is the latter. Let’s now take the following into consideration.

Arnett informed the DPD that he had information that Oswald was the illegitimate son of Jack Ruby. However, when the DPD investigated Arnett’s claim, they determined that it was a crock:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/16/1638-001.gif
Some of you may recall that this is also what Lt. George E. Butler (who worked in the Juvenile bureau of the DPD) told the DPD. For those who don’t, I wrote about it in my essay “Who was behind the assassination?” under the subheading “Blaming the Jews.” In that essay (under the same subheading), I also discussed the likelihood that Butler was involved in allowing Ruby into the basement to shoot Oswald. I don’t think it was just a coincidence that both Arnett and Butler claimed they had information that Oswald was Ruby’s illegitimate son. IMO, this shows that Arnett and Butler were in cahoots with each other; and given everything I have discussed previously, I believe Croy (along with others such as “Blackie” Harrison and detective Roy Lee Lowery) was involved with Arnett and Butler in allowing Ruby into the basement to shoot Oswald.

Although many of you may disagree with me on that, there can be no doubt that Kenneth Croy was a God-awful liar. Let’s now consider the following. As stated in his interview with the FBI on December 4, 1963, Croy ran a business called “H. E. Croy and Son Real Estate” in Dallas with his father. This means he may have been well acquainted with the likes of O. L. Nelms and Bertha Cheek; both of whom were heavily involved in Real Estate and both of whom were well acquainted with Jack Ruby. Croy’s obituary states that he “loved classic country music.”

http://www.fortstocktonpioneer.com/obituaries/article_8bcbe480-1e14-11e2-a41b-001a4bcf887a.html
This means he may have been a frequent patron of the Longhorn Ballroom in Dallas, and well acquainted with its owner, Dewey Groom, who was described as being a close friend and business partner of O. L. Nelms. According to Marvin Gardner (who worked for the show “How Hollywood Makes Movies” at the Dallas Fairgrounds during the State Fair), the “Rock and Roll” show which took over from “How Hollywood Makes Movies” was produced by a man named Jessie Seay from Dallas, whom Gardner said he understood was a friend of Dewey Groom, and that Larry Crafard had joined this show:

http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13311315-crafard-puzzle
When Croy testified before the Warren Commission, he claimed that he was involved with Rodeos for about 12 years. It may be worth keeping in mind that Marvin Gardner informed the FBI that Crafard told him (Gardner) that he used to work in Rodeos until he was injured:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10486&search=Sam_Daugherty+actor#relPageId=77&tab=page
Although I have reservations that Crafard worked with Gardner for the “How Hollywood Makes Movies” show, I can’t think of a reason why Gardner would fabricate this claim. It may also be worth keeping in mind that Ruby told the FBI that he had worked at Rodeos and sporting events:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=56988&search=Jack_Leon+Ruby+Rodeos#relPageId=196&tab=page
Therefore, he may have kept in touch with people associated with Rodeos (such as Croy) over the years. Does anyone know if the “Rock and Roll” show at the Dallas Fairgrounds (or any other show at the Fairgrounds for that matter) involved a Rodeo event? The reason I ask is because Clarence Aubry Summers told the FBI that Crafard was dressed in “cowboy clothes” with blue jeans and boots at the Fairgrounds, and that he had seen Crafard shooting guns into the air:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11488&search=Summers_Larry+Cowboy#relPageId=3&tab=page

What I am getting at here is that Kenneth Croy may have been acquainted with Crafard, and may have been involved in some illegal gun running activities at the Fairgrounds and the 1026 North Beckley rooming house with Ruby, Crafard, and their associates such as Bertha Cheek. Like so many other things, I may never be able to prove this. However, the one thing I am certain of is that Croy and Ruby knew each other quite well before Oswald was killed.

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: Kenneth Croy redux

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 1:07 am

The following passage from Arnett’s interview with Larry Sneed made me chuckle:


“Later the Dallas police investigated the shooting of Oswald and interviewed a number of those who were in the basement or who might have known Jack Ruby. I spent a lot of time with Jack Revill, who investigated me. Though I don’t recall all that was said in the interview, he did tell me when it was completed, “You’re as clear as the sky will ever be!” I told him, “I knew I was clear when I came in here.”



I hope the reader will forgive me for believing that Arnett was (once again) talking out of his arse.

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: Kenneth Croy redux

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 1:08 am

When Kenneth Croy testified before the Warren Commission, he claimed that he owned a Mobil service station:


http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=7795&search=Mr_Croy+Mobil+station#relPageId=197&tab=page

What’s interesting is that when DPD motorcycle officer, Thomas Alexander Hutson (who was one of the officers that apprehended Oswald inside the Texas Theater), testified before the Warren Commission, he claimed that there was a “Mobil gas station” located at 10th and Beckley streets:


http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=41&search=Mr_Hutson+Mobil+gas+station#relPageId=39&tab=page

As we can see, Hutson claimed that Officer Ray Hawkins and Officer Elmer Baggett (who were with Hutson) went into the service station during the search for Tippit’s killer. Although I have not been able to find any confirmation for this by Hawkins or Baggett, this doesn’t mean Hutson was lying when he said there was a Mobil gas station near the intersection of 10th and Beckley streets in November, 1963.


At approximately 1:32 pm, Officer Jerry G. Pollard told the Dallas Police radio dispatchers the following:


“They say he is running west in the alley between Jefferson and Tenth.”


http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134&search=They_say+hes+running+west+in+the+alley+between+Jefferson+and+Tenth#relPageId=440&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1139&search=They_say+hes+running+west+in+the+alley+between+Jefferson+and+Tenth#relPageId=897&tab=page

After Tippit’s killer allegedly went south on Patton Street then turned West onto Jefferson Blvd., he allegedly went into the parking lot behind Roger Ballew’s Texaco service station (which was located at Jefferson Blvd.) and discarded the light gray jacket (WCE 162). After discarding the jacket, he then supposedly went through the alley located between 10th street and Jefferson Blvd. (although many researchers suspect he went into the Abundant Life Temple which was located behind the parking lot).


IIRC, in November, 1963, the alley went all the way to Beckley Street. If you check Google Maps, you’ll see that Tippit’s killer (if he actually went through the alley) would have come out of the alley near the aforementioned service station. What I am getting at is that Tippit’s killer (whom I believe was Larry Crafard) may have gone into the service station to hide from the Police. Given my suspicions concerning Kenneth Cory, I would really like to know if he was the owner of the service station. If Thomas Hutson was one of the officers involved in framing Oswald at the Texas Theater with Gerald Hill (and I think he may have been); and if Tippit’s killer was hiding out inside the service station, then perhaps Hutson claimed that Hawkins and Baggett went into the service station to make it look as if Tippit’s killer couldn’t have been there since they reported nothing about seeing a suspicious looking person inside. I hope that makes sense.


Last edited by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Kenneth Croy redux

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 1:11 am

On December 28, 1962, Declan Ford and his wife Katherine (so-called friends of Oswald and his wife) hosted a party at their home during which Oswald and his wife were present. Two of those present at the party were Allen A. Jackson and his wife, Margaret. According to the interviews of Daniel F. Sullivan and his wife with the FBI (both of whom were also present at the party); Jackson was in the Real Estate business:


http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10713&search=Daniel_F+Sullivan#relPageId=18&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10713&search=Daniel_F+Sullivan#relPageId=19&tab=page

I don’t recall seeing any discussion about Jackson at any forum, so I wanted to start a discussion about him here. As I discussed in my first post at this thread, Kenneth Croy was in the Real Estate business. Therefore, Jackson may have been acquainted with Croy; and others of interest in the Real Estate business such as O. L. Nelms and Bertha Cheek (both of whom, as I mentioned in my first post, were well acquainted with Jack Ruby). What’s interesting is that according to a Mrs. Allen Taylor, Ruby was “personally known” to a man named Earl Jackson; who owned the Fontainebleau apartments in San Antonio, Texas. When Jackson was interviewed by the FBI, he denied knowing Ruby:


http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10516&search=Allen_A+Jackson#relPageId=282&tab=page

Given that Allen A. Jackson and Earl Jackson were both (apparently) in the Real Estate business; and were both living in Dallas, Texas, it’s entirely possible that they were blood related. If Jack Ruby knew Earl Jackson (as claimed by Mrs. Taylor), then perhaps he also knew Allen Jackson. What’s also interesting is that following Oswald’s murder, the DPD interviewed Linda Jackson; who was the manager of the “apartment house” at 4727 Homer Street, Dallas, Texas, where Jack Ruby had lived from January, 1959, to July, 1961:


http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/11/1154-001.gif

As we can see, Jackson denied knowing Ruby or ever having seen him. As some of you may be aware, living at 4740 Homer Street was George A. Bouhe (the so-called leader of the Dallas-Fort worth White Russian community). As I discussed in my essay “Who was behind the assassination?,” I believe Bouhe and Ruth Paine were both involved in Oswald’s employment at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall (see under the subheading “Oswald before the TSBD”). Bouhe was present at the aforementioned Party at the Ford residence, and was apparently a close friend of Allen A. Jackson:


http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1135-allen-a-jackson#14928

Taking into account what I have discussed above, I can’t help but think that Linda Jackson was also possibly related to Allen A. Jackson. It also reinforces my belief that Jack Ruby and Allen A. Jackson were possibly acquainted. As I discussed in the “My latest essay” thread, a James Watson had been living at 4727 Homer Street in Dallas; and that he may be identical to James Douglas Watson who had been living at the 1026 North Beckley rooming house with his friend, Herbert Leon Lee:



http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13250711-my-latest-essay?page=2

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Re: Kenneth Croy redux

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 1:12 am

I will have more "missing" posts to add to this thread in due time.

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Re: Kenneth Croy redux

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