Hoover memo Nov 24th

I had posted this on FB on the day that the records came out, this Hoover document is a gem.

It kicks off by putting some serious blame on the DPD and his irk is especially reserved for Curry and Fritz for yapping too much.
The DPD's evidence was weak and that they actually had a case was only thanks to the FBI.


Bottom of page 2

“The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin.”
 
And from Katzenbach’s  Nov 25th memo which we all know.
 
"The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial."


Bottom of page 3, which Ed mentioned as well.
"There are bound to be some elements of our society who will holler their heads off that his civil rights were violated — which they were."







So the Dallas Observer writes a piece about it as well.
http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/declassified-jfk-documents-show-show-feud-between-fbi-and-dallas-police-10015830

Hoover mentions statute 241 which is civil rights violation.  He seems to be referring to the DPD as the offenders.  If that were true, it seems like it should be 242 which is civil rights violation under color of law.  Did Hoover not recognize that technicality or was he not talking about the Dallas PD?

The grounds for the FBI to take over the investigation was based on the death of JFK and the loss of his civil
rights.  There is a separation between the USG and states in murder cases EXCEPT in cases of Civil Rights.

There is a Hoover LHM,as well as legal opinion that this
was all proper action to take.  I will dig for the opinions and the LHM...jko

So don't they have to have a conspiracy to apply 241?  I thought "it" was some charge Hoover thought he could threaten the DPD with.

I'm not a lawyer that knows the ins and outs of 242, but the issue of conspiracy is a major consideration in all CR cases concerning motive and intent...which LHO never expressed concerning his actions associated with any aspect of the killing, except denial.  He explained some of his activities but was killed before and legal proceedings beyond booking.  All the aspects of conspiracy are seen just not fully investigated or considered. IMHO I don't think Hoover was out of bounds by stepping in.

Apart from Civil Rights, I was under the impression that the president could authorize the FBI to investigate anything he/she desired?

I also thought the Civil Rights issue arose only with Oswald  (not JFK) because he was under the protection of a civil authority at the time of his murder and was himself unarmed and not able to protect himself. If JFK's assassination was a civil rights issue, then so is any murder anywhere and the FBI could intervene on any case they wanted to.

The last highlighted paragraph seems to make it clear that Hoover was speaking of Oswald's rights being violated.  I am not sure he could make that charge based on negligence.  He does actually use the word conspiracy so he seems to be thinking that there was a conspiracy against Oswald.  I guess it wouldn't have to be a murder conspiracy, but I don't see what else.  This was early on before ANY conspiracy in any way connected to the JFK assassination had to be out of the question.

Conspiracy and cover up are elements that were clearly
concerns when the race to Parkland started...jko

James K. Olmstead wrote:Conspiracy and cover up are elements that were clearly
concerns when the race to Parkland started...jko

Very true. 

And there was no time lost in getting Ruby to say he acted alone either two days later.

I do not know about the 241/242 things but Hoover taking over the case was following established precedent in the earlier assassinations of Presidents. When Lincoln was killed, Edwin Stanton, Secretary of War, took over the investigation and refused to let anyone else in on the investigation. He also controlled all press releases, directions of the investigation, and so forth. He also controlled the search for the escaped Booth.

His actions were repeated by Hoover, whether or not there was any legal article in place for such absconding with the investigation.

Interesting. Warren Commissioner McCloy was a former Asst Secretary of War...

Another precedent was Colombia. The government took over the investigation of Gaitan's assassination (as did the FBI re JFK) and then got a team of detectives from Scotland Yard to review that investigation, while restricting access to information by barring them from getting anything not already used (this was the same role of the WC - to rubber stamp the FBI report and not generate any of their own leads)

I think I was misunderstood when I said, "This was early on before ANY conspiracy in any way connected to the JFK assassination had to be out of the question."


What I meant was that no kind of conspiracy was allowed in any explanation of the assassination.  Hoover probably could not have brought any kind of conspiracy charges against anybody associated in any way with the assassination for political reasons.  If anything, he probably was just bluffing.

Dave:  I honestly have to disagree a bit on your last
comment, but not enough to become mortal foes in debate.

My grounds are Hoover instructions on 23 December,
1963.

On this date JEH instructed all agents to report immediately to SS information concerning:

Subversives, ultra rightists, racist and fascists

a. possessing emotional instability and irrational behavior.

b. who have made threats of bodily harm against officials or employees of Federal, State or Local governments or officials of a foreign government.

c. who express or have expressed strong or violent anti-U.S. sentiment or have been involved in bombing or bomb-making or whose past conduct indicates
propensity for violence and hatred toward organized government.

Within 6 months FBI turned over more then 5,000 names, besides the ones given by Belmont and Hoover on May 6th and 14th, 1964.

Hoover in my opinion felt beyond doubt LHO pulled the trigger and also knew that JFK/RFK were doing
things that were in his opinion grounds for others to
influence LHO to act.  Granted it was a wide area of
concern and there was no immediate knowledge of
any DIRECT influence, INMO Hoover believed that LHO was associated with the International Communist Conspiracy, he had fought for years, therefore there
was a conspiracy in his mind.  If not all the anti-com actions, books, speeches etc associated with JEH, were bullshit.....jko
Hoover a

Here is a doc from the new batch that comes on Nov
26.  It is the first LHO/Ruby Plot consideration made
by the FBI, that is in my opinion critical in taking a new and fresh look at aspects of this case.

Ruby was not "at large" when the 24th memo, was
written and they knew that there was a serious, threat associated to the following doc, however
there would be a great deal to follow up on that would take a great deal of time....and be very difficult
to fully disclose....jko


docid-32155379.pdf

Here is some backgroun info that maybe of interest.
Two aspects, the mention of Puerto Rico and concerns
dealing with the FPCC are why I'm looking deeper into old considerations....jko

  In 1961, Director Hoover submitted a report to President Kennedy's Special
  Assistant for National Security, McGeorge Bundy, on the status of the internal
  security programs of the Interdepartmental Intelligence Conference. It began
  by reviewing the charter of the IIC and the Delimitations Agreement among the
  FBI and military intelligence agencies. The primary objective of the
  "investigative program" was "to counter the ever-increasing and continual
  threat from international communism and Soviet-bloc espionage and subversion."
 
  370

  In addition to reviewing counterespionage operations, the report described
  programs for "identification and investigation of potentially dangerous
  persons in the United States" and for "coverage of Communist Party
  activities." The most significant recent change in operations was expanded
  coverage of Cuban groups. The FBI's Security Index program was explained in
  the following terms:

    The FBI maintains a current list of individuals, both citizens and aliens,
    to be considered for apprehension and detention, if necessary, in a period
    of emergency. Approximately 12,000 individuals are listed at this time. This
    list is kept current on a daily basis by the addition of new individuals
    whose activities make them potentially dangerous to the United States, and
    by the deletion of individuals who are no longer engaged in subversive
    activities. Included on the list of potentially dangerous individuals are
    nearly 200 persons who are engaged in pro-Castro Cuban activities or who
    sympathize strongly with such activities. In addition to members of the
    Communist Party, it also includes certain members of such organizations as
    the Nationalist Party of Puerto Rico, the Nation of Islam, and the Socialist
    Workers Party.

  The FBI's "intensive coverage" of Cuban activities was required because of
  "the close ties between the Castro government of Cuba and the Soviet bloc."

  Particular attention was paid to the "July 26 Movement", which had been
  required to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, and to "the
  Fair Play for Cuba Committee." Regarding the latter, the report stated:

    The Fair Play for Cuba Committee is the principal outlet for pro-Castro
    propaganda and agitation on the part of U.S. nationals sympathetic to the
    Castro regime. There are indications that this organization is receiving
    funds from the Cuban Government. In addition, investigation has shown that
    this group has been heavily infiltrated by the Communist Party, USA (CPUSA),
    and the Socialist Workers Party (SWP). . . . In fact, some chapters of the
    group have been directly organized by and under the complete control of the
    CPUSA or the SWP.

  Finally, with respect to coverage of the Communist Party and related groups,
  the report stated:

    The CPUSA is active in agitation and spreading dissension in the U.S., and
    during the current racial disturbances in the South, it has attempted to
    take full advantage of the situation. The Party has endeavored to bring
    pressure to bear on state and Federal officials through the press, labor
    unions, and student groups....

    At the present time, the FBI has under investigation two hundred known or
    suspected communist front and communist-infiltrated organizations. Many of
    these organizations are national in scope with chapters in various cities
    throughout the United States. These groups represent transmission belts
    through which the CPUSA can further its line. 371 [Emphasis added.]

  The report did not say how effective the "attempts" and "endeavors" of the
  Communists were, nor did it indicate Communist success was increasing or
  decreasing.

  The question of pro-Cuban activities had arisen earlier at a National Security
  Council meeting in May 1961 after the Bay of Pigs invasion. Director Hoover
  attended at the request of the Attorney General. Hoover recorded after the
  meeting that he had "outlined to the President the fact that the FBI had
  intensified its coverage of Cubans in this country, both anti-Castro groups
  and pro-Castro groups." He had also "commented briefly upon the activities of
  the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and the elements in back of it." 372

  An FBI intelligence program aimed at Castro sympathizers had originally begun
  in November 1960 when field offices were instructed to consider "recommending
  for the Security Index those individuals who are not now on the Security Index
  but who . . . would be deemed dangerous or potentially dangerous to the
  internal security of the U.S. in the event of an emergency involving Cuba and
  the U.S." Such individuals included both Cubans and non-Cubans "who have been
  engaged in substantial activities in furtherance of the aims and purpose of
  the Cuban government, in support of pro-Castro groups or organizations or in
  furtherance of the communist or subversive infiltration of pro-Castro groups."

  373

  After the Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961, FBI field officers were advised that
  "increasing anti-United States attitudes and demonstrations stemming from the
  Cuban situation and 'cold war' tensions are cause for concern" and that
  pro-Castro groups might "react militantly to an emergency situation." In
  particular, the activities of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee revealed "the
  capacity of a nationality group organization to mobilize its efforts in such a
  situation so as to arrange demonstrations and influence public opinion."
  Hence, all field offices were to "be most alert to the possibility of
  demonstrations by nationality groups which could lead to incidents involving
  violence."

374
  Further instructions covered both pro-Castro and anti-Castro groups:
    The failure of the recent invasion attempt by Cuban rebel forces has
    accentuated the problem of investigating anti-Castro and pro-Castro groups
    and individuals in the United States. In addition to discharging our
    security and criminal responsibilities we are faced with the necessity of
    acquiring and providing other agencies informative and valid intelligence
    data relative to the objectives and activities of both factions as well as
    data regarding key personalities. . . .

    In order to discharge these investigative and intelligence responsibilities
    with maximum effectiveness it is essential that particular attention be
    afforded the development on a broadly expanded basis of sources and
    informants in a position to provide knowledgeable data regarding pro-Castro
    and anti-Castro activities.
375

  At the time of the Cuban missile crisis in 1962, the FBI intensified its
  program for placing pro-Cubans on the Security Index and established a special
  "Cuban Section" of the Index. Among the activities to be considered in placing
  Cuban aliens on the Index included:

    (1) participation in organizations supporting the Castro regime, (2)
    participation in picket lines formed in support of the Cuban Government, (3)
    contacts with Cuban agents operating in this country on behalf of the Cuban
    Government, or (4) statements or activities on a subject's part establishing
    reasonable grounds to believe that his loyalty would lie with the Cuban
    Government in the event of armed conflict between the United States and
    Cuba.
376
  This program would have made it possible for the President, at the height of
  the Cuban missile crisis, to declare an "internal security emergency" and
  order the arrest and detention of those persons deemed "potentially dangerous"
  because of their pro-Castro sympathies.

  In 1962 there were 11,165 persons on the Security Index, 969 persons in
  Section A of the Reserve Index, and approximately 10,000 persons in Section B
  of the Reserve Index. An internal FBI memorandum stated, "Essentially, all of
  the individuals included therein fall within the emergency detention
  provisions in the Internal Security Act of 1950 as well as the emergency
  detention provisions of the Attorney General's Portfolio."

377
 There is no indication that Justice Department officials under the Kennedy
 Administration were informed of the existence of the Reserve Index.

  In late 1963 the Security Index contained the names of 10,519 individuals, of
  whom 1,967 were designated for the Detcom Priority Apprehension Program
  because "their training, violent tendencies and prominence in subversive
  activity represent the greatest threat in time of a national emergency .."

378

The procedures for Justice Department review of the Security Index were
  described as follows:

    The Department does not review individual cases prior to the time they are
    placed on the Security Index.... In July 1955 the Department advised that it
    would engage in reviewing a "sampling" of our Security Index cases and it
    has been so engaged since. We furnish the Department each month a list of
    our Security Index subjects for attachment to the Master Warrant of Arrest
    maintained by the Department should an emergency occur requiring their
    apprehension and from this list the Department selects cases for reviewing.
    For information, as of today approximately 59.4 percent of the Security
    Index cases have been reviewed and approved by the Department.

    We request the Department to conduct specific review of a Security Index
    case when such a subject becomes (1) a U.S. Government employee, (2) a
    foreign government employee, and (3) an employee of the United Nations. We
    also request the Department to specifically review a case previously
    reviewed and approved by it prior to taking action with respect to removing
    a subject's name from the Security Index. These reviews are generally
    conducted by the Department within a thirty-day period.

379
  The date of this December 1963 memorandum, in response to a request by
  Director Hoover, indicates high-level concern that Lee Harvey Oswald was not
  on the Security Index.

  Following the Kennedy assassination, the FBI Intelligence Division proposed "a
  broadening of the factors which must be considered in evaluating an
  individual's dangerousness." Six new criteria were added:

    1. Contacts with Sino-Soviet-bloc establishments (including Cuba) where
    purpose of contact cannot be determined or contact indicates communist
    sympathies.
    2. Contacts with Sino-Soviet-bloc, Cuban, or Yugoslav intelligence agents
    where purpose of contact cannot be determined or contact indicates communist
    sympathies.
    3. Individuals who have defected, revoked or sought revocation of their
    United States citizenship in favor of a Sino-Soviet-bloc country, who have
    returned to the United States, and who have taken no positive steps to
    counteract such action.
    4. Statements or activities on a subject's part establishing reasonable
    grounds to believe that his loyalty would lie with communist nations in the
    event of armed conflict between the United States and communist nations.
    5. Training and/or participation in espionage, sabotage, or intelligence
    activities.
    6. A history of emotional instability or irrational behavior on the part of
    an individual with a subversive background whose prior acts depict a
    propensity for violence and hatred against organized government.

  It was pointed out that such criteria were "sufficiently elastic so that when
  applied with the necessary judgment the complex questions which arise can be
  resolved."

380
  These FBI domestic intelligence policies in 1961-1963 indicated the central
  purpose of the Bureau's internal security assignment. International tensions
  were still sufficiently intense that the FBI could reasonably anticipate the
  possibility of an "internal security emergency." The basic assumptions which
  had prevailed since World War II had not been seriously questioned, and now
  events were viewed within that framework.

Greg said:

"If JFK's assassination was a civil rights issue, then so is any murder anywhere and the FBI could intervene on any case they wanted to."

I think this is basically true today.  The cops who beat up Rodney King were acquitted of state charges for beating him up but the Feds stepped in and charged them with civil rights violations.  Somehow this is not double jeopardy.  The first I heard of this happening was in the Southern states in the 60's where no white person had ever been convicted of murdering a black person.  They would be acquitted of murder but then the Feds would charge them with depriving the victim of his civil right to live by killing him.  I thought this was made possible by the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  So far, I have not found anything to support that thought.  Maybe they just decided they could or should start pressing civil rights charges in cases they had not intervened in before.

I think this sentence is the one we need to figure out.

"Since we now think it involves the Criminal Code on a conspiracy charge under Section 241, we want them to shut up."

First thing to consider is if that really says 241.  On closer inspection, it looks like the last digit might be a 1, 2, or 3.

If it is 241, that is a conspiracy charge only.  There has to be a conspiracy to charge that.  There is a "two or more" in there.  If Hoover was saying they had a 241 in the JFK case, then he was saying there was a conspiracy.  Hoover might have been thinking this was a product of the International Communist Conspiracy whether or not he had any real evidence or something along those lines.
If it is 242, then that is under the color of law and requires no conspiracy.  He would have reason to qualify it as such.