The Infamous Ruth Paine Filing Cabinets

Hi Guys, am a long time JFK researcher and have been watching your work with much interest and I do like the cut of your Jib.
That being said, I do believe I have found something important regarding the filing cabinets.
I think I have found something that sticks to the usually teflon coated Mrs Paine.

In this testimony Paine and Jenner discuss 3 file cases.

Mr. JENNER - Now, I have, which I will mark only for identification, three file cases of correspondence of your themes or writings in college. You might be better able to describe what is in these boxes than I in the way of general summary. Would you do so? 
Mrs. PAINE - It also includes information helpful to me in recreation leadership, games, something of songs. It includes a list of the people to whom I sent birth announcements, things of that nature. 
Mr. JENNER - It covers a span of years going back to your college days? 
Mrs. PAINE - And a few papers prior to college. 
Mr. JENNER - I have marked these boxes for identification numbers 457, 458, and 459. During my meeting with you Wednesday morning, I exhibited the contents of those boxes to you, and are the materials in the boxes other than material which is printed or is obviously from some other source that which purports to be in your handwriting, actually in your handwriting? 
Mrs. PAINE - Yes. 
Mr. JENNER - And those pieces of correspondence which purport to be letters from your mother, your father, your brother, and your sister are likewise the originals of those letters? 
Mrs. PAINE - Yes. 
Mr. JENNER - And the copies of letters which purport to be letters from you to your mother, father, sister, and brother, and in some instances others are copies of letters that you dispatched? 
Mrs. PAINE - That is right.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. JENNER - Back on the record, please.

Now , could these "file cases" be the infamous file boxes that contained allegedly communist and Castro sympathisers?
They talk about three of the cases that contained family an other correspondence,copies of what she sent as well as originals received.
Why did the discussion have to get taken off the record?
Surely because they discussed what else was there, that would of outed Paine and family for what they really were.


Look at the Warren Commission exhibit contents list

457-458 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (')
459-1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 176-178
Letter from Ruth Paine to her mother, dated June 18, 1959 .
460 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 179-196
Article by Ruth Paine on Lee Harvey OsNvald, received by George
Harris of Look magazine.
461-476 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (')
477 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 197
Photograph of the Texas School Book Depository Building, as
marked by Howard Brennan.
1 These numbers were not used



 there were three file cases that were exhibit numbers 457 458 and 459.
in the contents list it just gives one letter and states the other exhibit numbers were not used.
The commission statement by Ruth Paine and Jenner tells us what those exhibit numbers should be.
Me thinks it looks like a smoking gun that speaks volumes.
How else could you explain the discrepancy. They had to photo the exhibits you see. They didnt want to show the file cases and contents , so they pull just one letter and cover it up.

I believe this to be very important , what does the forum think?

Hello Jacko,

Here is the link showing metal boxes that were found which were filled with the names of Castro sympathizers. 
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/html/WH_Vol19_0269b.htm

It's more than possible you might be onto something with this.

I do wonder how Ruth could collect all of that information. Seems more likely to have come from Mike and all of his meanderings in and out of right and left wing groups. It's also possible Ruth had other sources not easily discerned in the records.

Who took care of Ruth's kids when she was teaching?

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Who took care of Ruth's kids when she was teaching?

Miss Soviet Union, 1962?

Aloha Jacko,

Ruth says she had seven file boxes...
https://app.box.com/s/iuce7aaneb3xnfj472hy

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Gary,
If you were a CIA operative and were tasked with the chore of framing Lee Harvey Oswald for President Kennedy's murder, would you place IN YOUR HOUSE a bunch of stuff that proves you were "CIA"?

RONALD VAN DIJK SAID:
Following the same arguments you use for Ruth Paine: Would Oswald leave a rifle with his fingerprints in the SBD? Would he make the backyard pictures? Would he....? Do you think he was nuts?.... You are explaining the find of the cabinets in a way that suits you.

Sorry, I just needed to quote that. Too funny.



Now who would have a LETTERHEAD?
Ruth and her FRIENDS letter writing campaign to RUSSIA

Mr. WALTHERS. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works.

Mr. LIEBELER. I have been advised that some story has developed that at some point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind, but you don't remember seeing any of them?

Mr. WALTHERS. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it.

Mr. LIEBELER. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you got out there or anything like that?

Mr. WALTHERS. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them contained, I don't know myself to this day.

Mr. LIEBELER. As I was sitting here listening to your story, I could see where that story might have come from--you mentioned the "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets that were in a barrel.

Mr. WALTHERS. That's right--we got a stack of them out of that barrel, but things get all twisted around.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/walthers

[END WARREN COMMISSION QUOTES.]


Question:

What proof is there that the file cabinets belonged to Ruth or Michael Paine? Why couldn't that stuff have been part of Lee Oswald's personal possessions? After all, about everything Lee and Marina owned was in Mrs. Paine's garage in November of '63.

This part of Buddy Walthers' Warren Commission testimony above certainly makes it sound as though at least some of the material in at least one of the metal file cabinets belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald:

"We opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead..."


I am positive Mr. Paine said SHE WRITES TO IN RUSSIA but that has been edited.



...now don't be fooled by the DVP's of this case.
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/04/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-87.html#Curry

24" inches by 24" inches by 18 inches is a SMALL BOX barely enough room for a stack of magazines and a few paperbacks, and some leaflets.
Try it for yourself. get a 2'X2'X1' 1/2" box and see how many books and magazines you can get in it.
Before the internet how many books and magazines did one person go through in six weeks?

Large amount of literature?.. if spread across a floor. Perhaps.
But doesn't make this box any file box of communist literature.
I don't accept what Marina says about a metal filing box.
She wouldn't tell you difference between a filing box from a locking safe, to agreeable and not believable.

To get to the point files, or records, perhaps file cards(?) with names and activities on them were found which showed them as Cuban Sympathizers. Three things.
CUBAN TIES OR SYMPATHY
NAME
ACTIVITIES

Show me such a record taken from Irving or Beckley, please.

If none exists ...
It has been suppressed.
And or was Buddy not actually aware of the file boxes and or contents???




 Cheers, Ed

greg parker wrote:

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Who took care of Ruth's kids when she was teaching?

Miss Soviet Union, 1962?

Oh yes

As for Strauss insider and ‘dual atomic agent’ veteran Charles W. Bates, he “was at different times head of the FBI’s offices in Chicago, Cleveland and Omaha, Neb., and served seven years [1958-1965] as the legal attache at the U.S. Embassy in the United Kingdom [London], another Hoover appointment. In the [legat] position, he was chief of the FBI [intelligence] liason office covering England, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland.” http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Charles-Bates-79-long-FBI-career-3095966.php
    It is not possible to locate Bates’s actual whereabouts during his long-term London service, interfacing with MI5, MI6, and other U.S. agencies, though it is doubtless that Bates and Oswald were familiar during LHO’s transit through London and Helsinki. Bates later surfaced in a more public way: “In 1969, Charles Bates was a special agent at the Chicago office of the FBI when police killed Black Panthers Fred Hampton and Mark Clark while they were sleeping [during a 4am raid on a family apartment]… In 1971, Bates was transferred to Washington D.C. According to Watergate burglar James McCord…on June 21, 1972 (four days after the break-in), White House attorney John Dean checked with acting FBI director L. Patrick Gray as to who was in charge of handling the Watergate investigation. The answer: Charles Bates –the same FBI official who in 1974 would be in charge of handling the SLA investigation and the search for Patty Hearst.” http://www.tikkun.org/nextgen/patty-hearst-the-twinkie-murders

*
*                                                                        
Another ‘Bates’, Miss Pauline V. Bates, had an unusual encounter with Oswald only days after his return from the USSR to Fort Worth in June of 1962. Oswald sought legal stenographer services to type his loose notes from Russia, notes that “were very bitter against Russia” according to her Warren testimony. He left her with the impression, as the local headline reads after the assassination, that “He Was Secret Agent For U.S.”  Was Oswald feeding his legend*, his legacy, or naming his handler?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlnpOHfhLvQ


Funny stuff Greg!
Cheers, Ed

Then the next occasion was when you had the picnic on the 20th, is that right?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - I notice in that entry what looks to me like "Miss Mary 7:15." What is the significance of that?
Mrs. PAINE - That is probably going out in the evening. It had no relationship with the picnic at all. It has a relationship with a dinner group which is at the time, you see the 'line "dinner group--7:15 Miss Mary," who is a babysitter.
Mr. JENNER - That entry has nothing to do with the Oswalds?
Mrs. PAINE - No.

and


Mr. JENNER - I will get to that, in October. Have we pretty well exhausted this 15-day interim period, then?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes, sir.
Representative FORD - Mr. Jenner, may I ask a question there? During this 15-day period, did any individual, male or female, come and visit you at your home?
Mrs. PAINE - You mean particularly to see her? I am sure there are people coming and going at my house. There must have been. For instance, May 1, Mary--this is again Miss Mary referred to previously, a babysitter, "8:15. War and Peace." Mary came and stayed with my children, and Marina and June and I went to see War and Peace. Miss Mary recalls that meeting.

epresentative FORD - Into your home?
Mrs. PAINE - Probably.
Mr. JENNER - Who is Craig?
Mrs. PAINE - Craig is this young German woman who didn't want to buy guns for her children either, that I mentioned. And we exchanged children often.
Mr. JENNER - Does she speak Russian?
Mrs. PAINE - No; German only, and English. And, mow the lawn, it says on the third, but that is not me, it is a neighbor who mows the lawn. And May 9 in the morning, "Ilse"--means Mrs. Craig again--kept my children while I went at 8:10 to Saint Marks for an interview. So there was a normal flow. And I told my immediate neighbor, Mrs. Roberts, who figures later, that Marina was there over the weekend, that I wouldn't be there, and introduced them, so Marina could go to Mrs. Roberts and make signs or symbols if she had to get a message through to someone.

Mr. JENNER - Mrs. Roberts is your next door neighbor?
Mrs. PAINE - That is right.

A Miss Mary???

Is this a local Miss Mary or this Miss Mary?

Mrs. PAINE - I first went to Naushon Island off the coast of Massachusetts.
Mr. JENNER - Were you driving in the station wagon?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; I was.
Mr. JENNER - With your children?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - And you went from there to where? Whom did. you visit next?
Mrs. PAINE - How detailed do you want to be?
Mr. JENNER - Just tell us whom you visited us all.
Mrs. PAINE - I stopped and saw Miss Mary Forman, in Connecticut, one night.
Mr. JENNER - She is an old friend of yours?
Mrs. PAINE - She is an old friend of mine from Columbus, Ohio, and went on then to Paoli the next day, and stayed there, again with the Youngs, until the early part of September.
Mr. McCLOY - Is that Paoli, Pa.?
Mrs. PAINE - That is right.

Her sister is Mary Hyde...

William Hyde called Ruth and a Juvenile Babysitter answered.

and

But I do not believe Miss Mary is the same person as the juvenile last minute babysitter from a neighboring house.

...and which house would have such a young girl available?

Not Miss MARY ELLIOTT, who is a prominent social worker in Tennessee???.

Where did the German speaking Mrs. Craig live?
What was her full name?

Why are these people not followed up on?
They could have connections we dream about!

Cheers, Ed

Ilse Craig lived at 1818 Harvard Street Irving Texas

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7460925



John Craig Jr
1818 Harvard Street
BL3-9766

Vera Ashby let her daughters baby sit.

Miss Mary is:

We have all these folks whom did spend time, it would seem, in the Paine house and may have personal knowledge of the filing cabinets.

Locate and ask.

Ilse Craig was John's wife.

Ilse was German, and German speaking.
John worked with Michael Paine at Bell Helicopter.

Am I getting a Operation Paperclip vibe? Why yes I am.

I like how they all say they never met LHO. I mean, that's not quite the same as never having seen him which I am sure they must have since I believe he lived there for around 4 to 6 weeks.

I can imagine how that questioning went...

Agent: Did you know Lee Harvey Oswald?
Witness: Well, I used to see him around here quite a bit.
Agent: But you never actually met him?
Witness: No, we were never introduced...

Btw, one of your Mary's gave an interesting little piece of info about Ruth, but I'll find the right thread for it.

Ed. Ledoux wrote:William Hyde called Ruth and a Juvenile Babysitter answered.

and

Ed,

is this in reference to the Saturday or Friday afternoon, do you know?

Cheers Mick

Friday?

Friday evening Mick

https://books.google.com/books?id=n7hFAQAAIAAJ



Cheers, Ed

I think it is very relevant that Jenner gave 3 of the boxes an exhibit number an then on the exhibit contents list it says these very same numbers were not used apart from one solitary letter to her mother!!!!!
And the fact whilst discussing the contents he took it off the record.
I cannot believe how some of the Paine sympathisers even question the existence of these boxes. Even Jenner says they exist.
But then something we see often in warren report, they fudge the exhibits and take it off the record and produce just one letter to her mother!!
No! it stinks.
And thanks for your great responses Guys

Jacko wrote:I think it is very relevant that Jenner gave 3 of the boxes an exhibit number an then on the exhibit contents list it says these very same numbers were not used apart from one solitary letter to her mother!!!!!
And the fact whilst discussing the contents he took it off the record.
I cannot believe how some of the Paine sympathisers even question the existence of these boxes. Even Jenner says they exist.
But then something we see often in warren report, they fudge the exhibits and take it off the record and produce just one letter to her mother!!
No! it stinks.
And thanks for your great responses Guys

This testimony from Walthers shows how bad it is... bear in mind as you read that Walthers' own typed report states he found the filing cabinets with the names of Castro supporters. Yet he denies knowing anything about it in his testimony. I threw in the part about Ruth Paine's welcome gratuitously 

Mr. LIEBELER. How do you account for the fact that Mrs. Paine said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you?" 


Mr. WALTHERS. I don't know--to this day, I don't know. 


Mr. LIEBELER. Are you sure that's what she said? 


Mr. WALTHERS. I know that's what she said. 


Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Paine said that? 


Mr. WALTHERS. Yes, sir; she said, "Come on in, we have been expecting you." 


Mr. LIEBELER. Was there anybody else there that heard her say that? 


Mr. WALTHERS. I imagine all the officers on the porch did. I know Rose was trying to show her his credentials and she just pushed the screen open and said, "Come on in." Now, after we got inside and we were making a search of the house with their permission, they had no objection whatsoever. Mrs. Oswald couldn't speak much English and Mr. Rose was doing most of the questioning, the city officer. We were just--not actually knowing what we were looking for, just searching, and we went into the garage there and found this--I believe it was one of these things like soap comes in, a big pasteboard barrel and it had a lot of these little leaflets in it, "Freedom for Cuba" and they were gold color with black printing on them, and we found those and we also found a gray blanket with some red trim on it that had a string tied at one end that you could see the imprint of a gun, I mean where it had been wrapped in it. 


Mr. LIEBELER. You could really see the imprint of the gun? 


Mr. WALTHERS. You could see where it had been--it wasn't completely untied--one end had been untied and the other end had been left tied, that would be around the barrel and you could see where the gun had rested on the inside of it. 


Mr. LIEBELER. You mean by that, you could tell that from the way the thing had been tied? 


Mr. WALTHERS. You could tell it from the way it was tied and the impression of where that barrel went up in it where it was tied, that a rifle had been tied in it, but what kind---you couldn't tell, but you could tell a rifle had been wrapped up in it, and then we found some little metal file cabinets---I don't know what kind you would call them---they would carry an 8 by 10 folder, all right, but with a single handle on top of it and the handle moves. 


Mr. LIEBELER. About how many of them would you think there were? 


Mr. WALTHERS. There were six or seven, I believe, and I put them all in the trunk of my car and we also found a box of pictures, a bunch of pictures that we taken. We didn't go to the trouble of looking at any of this stuff much---just more or less confiscated it at the time, and we looked at it there just like that, and then we took all this stuff and put it in the car and then Mrs. Paine got a phone number from Mrs. Oswald where you could call Lee Harvey Oswald in Oak Cliff. It was a Whitehall phone number, I believe, and they said they didn't know where he lived, but this was where they called him, and I called Sheriff Decker on the phone when I was there and gave him that number for the crisscross, so they could send some men to that house, which I think they did, but I didn't go myself. Then we put everybody in the car, the kids, Mrs. Oswald, and everyone---no; just a minute---before that, though, this Michael Paine or Mitchell Paine, whichever you call it, came home and I had understood from Mrs. Paine already that they weren't living together, that they were separated and he was supposed to be living in Grand Prairie and when he showed up I asked him what was his object in coming home. He said--well, after he had heard about the President's getting shot, he just decided he would take off and come home, and he arrived there while we were there. 


Mr. LIEBELER. This was already after the time Oswald had been arrested, of course? 


Mr. WALTHERS. Yes. 


Mr. LIEBELER. Because you had actually helped arrest Oswald at the Texas Theatre? 


Mr. WALTHERS. Yes. 


Mr. LIEBELER. And what time was it approximately, would you be able to give us that? 


Mr. WALTHERS. Oh, man--I couldn't tell you; I'm sorry. 


Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald was arrested about what time---it must have been around close to 2 o'clock or 1:30? 


Mr. WALTHERS. It was between 1:30 and 2 o'clock. This wasn't his getting off time, I remember him saying he had taken off and he had worked at Bell Helicopter. 


Mr. LIEBELER. It's perfectly possible, however, that he could have heard about Oswald having been arrested in connection with the Officer Tippit shooting? 


Mr. WALTHERS. But he didn't say anything about that when he came in. 


Mr. LIEBELER. What did he say? 


Mr. WALTHERS. I didn't ask him, of course, if he knew he had been arrested. I asked him if he knew Oswald and he said, "Yes"; he had known him. We were standing, I remember, on each side of the ironing board when I talked to him and he said "Yes," he had known him and I said, "How does the guy think, what is he, what does he do?" He said, "He's a Communist. He is very communistic minded. He believes in it." And he says, "He used to try to convince me it was a good thing," and he says, "I don't believe in it." And our conversation didn't go too far. It was just a matter of talk about Oswald and what he had to say about him being a Communist. 
They were all put in the cars and we took them to Capt. Will Fritz' office along with the stuff we had confiscated, the files and the blanket and the other stuff, and I turned them over to Captain Fritz and left them and went back to my station. 


Mr. LIEBELER. What was in these file cabinets? 


Mr. WALTHERS. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works. 


Mr. LIEBELER. I have been advised that some story has developed that at some point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind, but you don't remember seeing any of them? 


Mr. WALTHERS. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it. 


Mr. LIEBELER. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you got out there or anything like that?

Mr. WALTHERS. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them contained, I don't know myself to this day. 


Mr. LIEBELER. As I was sitting here listening to your story, I could see where that story might have come from--you mentioned the "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets that were in a barrel. 


Mr. WALTHERS. That's right--we got a stack of them out of that barrel, but things get all twisted around. 

------------------------------

Can the bullshit be any more obvious? As stated, Walthers himself wrote a report saying "a set of metal of file cabinets were found containing records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers."


How many? Walthers himself testified that "There were six or seven, I believe" but later, both Walthers and Liebeler seem to forget what Walthers has already said about how many and they go about denying the number, the contents and claiming things got twisted because of the FPCC leaflets found nearby. 

There are so many red flags in Walthers testimony, it's hard to know where to start. 

I think it's a given that Walthers original report is the truth. 

But who owned them? I suspect most believe it was either Oswald or Ruth.

I'll go with Mike. 

In his own testimony, he rambles on about the Cuban sympathizers he met at a party held by his father in California. There are also those stories about him hanging out at a university cafe chatting to students about who knows what.

Great thread this is.......
Welcome Jacko!