The Infamous Ruth Paine Filing Cabinets

First topic message reminder :

Hi Guys, am a long time JFK researcher and have been watching your work with much interest and I do like the cut of your Jib.
That being said, I do believe I have found something important regarding the filing cabinets.
I think I have found something that sticks to the usually teflon coated Mrs Paine.

In this testimony Paine and Jenner discuss 3 file cases.

Mr. JENNER - Now, I have, which I will mark only for identification, three file cases of correspondence of your themes or writings in college. You might be better able to describe what is in these boxes than I in the way of general summary. Would you do so? 
Mrs. PAINE - It also includes information helpful to me in recreation leadership, games, something of songs. It includes a list of the people to whom I sent birth announcements, things of that nature. 
Mr. JENNER - It covers a span of years going back to your college days? 
Mrs. PAINE - And a few papers prior to college. 
Mr. JENNER - I have marked these boxes for identification numbers 457, 458, and 459. During my meeting with you Wednesday morning, I exhibited the contents of those boxes to you, and are the materials in the boxes other than material which is printed or is obviously from some other source that which purports to be in your handwriting, actually in your handwriting? 
Mrs. PAINE - Yes. 
Mr. JENNER - And those pieces of correspondence which purport to be letters from your mother, your father, your brother, and your sister are likewise the originals of those letters? 
Mrs. PAINE - Yes. 
Mr. JENNER - And the copies of letters which purport to be letters from you to your mother, father, sister, and brother, and in some instances others are copies of letters that you dispatched? 
Mrs. PAINE - That is right.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. JENNER - Back on the record, please.

Now , could these "file cases" be the infamous file boxes that contained allegedly communist and Castro sympathisers?
They talk about three of the cases that contained family an other correspondence,copies of what she sent as well as originals received.
Why did the discussion have to get taken off the record?
Surely because they discussed what else was there, that would of outed Paine and family for what they really were.


Look at the Warren Commission exhibit contents list

457-458 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (')
459-1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 176-178
Letter from Ruth Paine to her mother, dated June 18, 1959 .
460 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 179-196
Article by Ruth Paine on Lee Harvey OsNvald, received by George
Harris of Look magazine.
461-476 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (')
477 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 197
Photograph of the Texas School Book Depository Building, as
marked by Howard Brennan.
1 These numbers were not used



 there were three file cases that were exhibit numbers 457 458 and 459.
in the contents list it just gives one letter and states the other exhibit numbers were not used.
The commission statement by Ruth Paine and Jenner tells us what those exhibit numbers should be.
Me thinks it looks like a smoking gun that speaks volumes.
How else could you explain the discrepancy. They had to photo the exhibits you see. They didnt want to show the file cases and contents , so they pull just one letter and cover it up.

I believe this to be very important , what does the forum think?

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Friday evening Mick

https://books.google.com/books?id=n7hFAQAAIAAJ



Cheers, Ed

Thanks Ed,

William had a ripper memory didn't he, remembers that 1 letter from October 19th.

In my ever evolving theory on the Paines. I have them belonging to both Paine's. You can be damn sure Ruth has use of a least three that Jenner talks of.
Greg , if we understand that Jenner labelled these boxes.

Mr. JENNER - I have marked these boxes for identification numbers 457, 458, and 459. During my meeting with you Wednesday morning, I exhibited the contents of those boxes to you, and are the materials in the boxes other than material which is printed or is obviously from some other source that which purports to be in your handwriting, actually in your handwriting? 


then while talking of these he goes off the record.


Mr. JENNER - And the copies of letters which purport to be letters from you to your mother, father, sister, and brother, and in some instances others are copies of letters that you dispatched? 
Mrs. PAINE - That is right.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. JENNER - Back on the record, please.



then we see numbers that Jenner has issued to these boxes listed as not used exhibit numbers in the contents list.


457-458 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (')
459-1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 176-178
Letter from Ruth Paine to her mother, dated June 18, 1959 .
460 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 179-196
Article by Ruth Paine on Lee Harvey OsNvald, received by George
Harris of Look magazine.
461-476 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (')
477 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 197
Photograph of the Texas School Book Depository Building, as
marked by Howard Brennan.
1 These numbers were not used



Now we know that these numbers marked 1 were definitely used.Jenner labeling them himself in Testimony... we can also be allowed to think the other 15 numbers stated not used are also related to the other 4 file cases and their contents..
This would of outed the Paines's. so they fudged it..
They solved the "file case" issue by fudging all the evidence regarding them.. picking out ruths ones that had mainly family etc mail inside, not showing the photographs of them and showing just one mom letter. Off the record... why.... can only be one reason!
I bet there was six or seven file cases. I believe they were used by both Paine's. A mixture of family and "work".
Ruth's father was AID so was her brother, and i think brother in law? am not sure. De Morenschildt worked alongside AID.. And Her sister CIA. All the Nazi cliq on Michael's side also stinking of spooks. Ruth liased with state department with that Russian swap business in the early days.
can you imagine all them letters... I bet they stunk of an in the know families very spooky conversations.
There is just too much...

And thanks for the welcome.. I dont see many places getting the same kind of results as you guys are getting here.. Its a pleasure to be able to post. I am not the most articulate.. but i am obsessed with this case and for years.
I do not believe the World can make real progress until the truth about this is revealed.
The same culprits of the Coup have been in charge ever since.
Until the truth is known, it can never really be put right. 
America too can never ever be great in the mean time...

Jacko wrote:In my ever evolving theory on the Paines. I have them belonging to both Paine's. You can be damn sure Ruth has use of a least three that Jenner talks of.
Greg , if we understand that Jenner labelled these boxes.

Mr. JENNER - I have marked these boxes for identification numbers 457, 458, and 459. During my meeting with you Wednesday morning, I exhibited the contents of those boxes to you, and are the materials in the boxes other than material which is printed or is obviously from some other source that which purports to be in your handwriting, actually in your handwriting? 


then while talking of these he goes off the record.


Mr. JENNER - And the copies of letters which purport to be letters from you to your mother, father, sister, and brother, and in some instances others are copies of letters that you dispatched? 
Mrs. PAINE - That is right.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. JENNER - Back on the record, please.



then we see numbers that Jenner has issued to these boxes listed as not used exhibit numbers in the contents list.


457-458 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (')
459-1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 176-178
Letter from Ruth Paine to her mother, dated June 18, 1959 .
460 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 179-196
Article by Ruth Paine on Lee Harvey OsNvald, received by George
Harris of Look magazine.
461-476 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (')
477 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 197
Photograph of the Texas School Book Depository Building, as
marked by Howard Brennan.
1 These numbers were not used



Now we know that these numbers marked 1 were definitely used.Jenner labeling them himself in Testimony... we can also be allowed to think the other 15 numbers stated not used are also related to the other 4 file cases and their contents..
This would of outed the Paines's. so they fudged it..
They solved the "file case" issue by fudging all the evidence regarding them.. picking out ruths ones that had mainly family etc mail inside, not showing the photographs of them and showing just one mom letter. Off the record... why.... can only be one reason!
I bet there was six or seven file cases. I believe they were used by both Paine's. A mixture of family and "work".
Ruth's father was AID so was her brother, and i think brother in law? am not sure. De Morenschildt worked alongside AID.. And Her sister CIA. All the Nazi cliq on Michael's side also stinking of spooks. Ruth liased with state department with that Russian swap business in the early days.
can you imagine all them letters... I bet they stunk of an in the know families very spooky conversations.
There is just too much...

Jacko,

yes, no doubt there was a mix of material between the boxes. I only meant to suggest that the pro-cuban list was Michaels. A lot of Ruth;s letters, photos etc in some, and correspondence between Ruth and the State Dept regarding the Friends Soviet exchange program (which would be the Letterhead material referred to).

Jacko wrote:And thanks for the welcome.. I dont see many places getting the same kind of results as you guys are getting here.. Its a pleasure to be able to post. I am not the most articulate.. but i am obsessed with this case and for years.
I do not believe the World can make real progress until the truth about this is revealed.
The same culprits of the Coup have been in charge ever since.
Until the truth is known, it can never really be put right. 
America too can never ever be great in the mean time...

There are no Grammar Police here. So long as what we think you're saying is the same as what you meant to say, it's all good. 

The problem is not in cracking the case, the problem is that the waters are so muddied that those of us who still care are marginalized and the few times the spotlight is shone on the case, it is only to highlight the most ludicrous theories to marginalize us even further, or alternatively to push the official version of events or one of the approved alternatives (e.g Castro did it or the mob did it).

We'll see how the rest of this year pans out.

Welcome, Jacko.
 
It's refreshing to see new people join the forum who have a passion for the truth and show a bias for action. I agree with what Greg says: the problem is not cracking the case—anyone with a functioning brain who has the capacity to think critically can see the official case is as water tight as was the Titanic after the encounter with the iceberg. No, the problem is taking the solid case we have and presenting to the right people so they can see the obvious and demand something be done. It's a classic cold case with most of the work already done to show that the official case is bullshit, an insult to a person's intelligence. 

How to get the attention of the right people is problem. We here seek a solution to that problem. We are driven by a fierce sense of justice, of right and wrong. Those responsible for murder must be held accountable. Period. No statute of limitations. It will eventually happen, maybe not in my lifetime, but there will be an accounting.

Stan Dane wrote:Welcome, Jacko.
 
It's refreshing to see new people join the forum who have a passion for the truth and show a bias for action. I agree with what Greg says: the problem is not cracking the case—anyone with a functioning brain who has the capacity to think critically can see the official case is as water tight as was the Titanic after the encounter with the iceberg. No, the problem is taking the solid case we have and presenting to the right people so they can see the obvious and demand something be done. It's a classic cold case with most of the work already done to show that the official case is bullshit, an insult to a person's intelligence. 

How to get the attention of the right people is problem. We here seek a solution to that problem. We are driven by a fierce sense of justice, of right and wrong. Those responsible for murder must be held accountable. Period. No statute of limitations. It will eventually happen, maybe not in my lifetime, but there will be an accounting.

Stan, hope you had a good birthday mate.

My occasional despair is balanced with hope. Young people like Max Good (the maker of the Ruth Paine documentary nearing completion) gives me that hope. He has a young audience already and some of those will come on board when the film is released. If not in my lifetime, then with the next generation. Don't forget, they tried to shut the case down with the arbitrary deadline of the 50th. Didn't happen. And it won't happen.

greg parker wrote:

Stan Dane wrote:Welcome, Jacko.
 
It's refreshing to see new people join the forum who have a passion for the truth and show a bias for action. I agree with what Greg says: the problem is not cracking the case—anyone with a functioning brain who has the capacity to think critically can see the official case is as water tight as was the Titanic after the encounter with the iceberg. No, the problem is taking the solid case we have and presenting to the right people so they can see the obvious and demand something be done. It's a classic cold case with most of the work already done to show that the official case is bullshit, an insult to a person's intelligence. 

How to get the attention of the right people is problem. We here seek a solution to that problem. We are driven by a fierce sense of justice, of right and wrong. Those responsible for murder must be held accountable. Period. No statute of limitations. It will eventually happen, maybe not in my lifetime, but there will be an accounting.

Stan, hope you had a good birthday mate.

My occasional despair is balanced with hope. Young people like Max Good (the maker of the Ruth Paine documentary nearing completion) gives me that hope. He has a young audience already and some of those will come on board when the film is released. If not in my lifetime, then with the next generation. Don't forget, they tried to shut the case down with the arbitrary deadline of the 50th. Didn't happen. And it won't happen.

Number 64 was pretty good, Greg. Great, actually. Got treated like a king.
 
I think it will be a new generation of researchers that will finally ice this thing. They are beholden to no one and they will not be deterred. And they will appeal to a new generation of people who will be pissed off at our generation for allowing this bullshit to stand for so long, not to mention leaving them a world that is so utterly fucked up.
 
I laugh when I browse the JFK forums, something I seldom do anymore because it's déjà vu all over again. All these LNs and CT freaks who are so cocksure about their cherished beliefs. All they do is congregate together and sniff each other's butts like they have nothing else better to do. It would be like us hanging out among Flat Earthers because deep down inside we were worried about them proving the earth was not round!
 
Deep down inside, these losers are worried about us. They are very insecure.

We got this.

I agree with both of you.. I believe younger researchers probably will have the fortune of blowing the case open... but it will be acknowledged that it is by being on the shoulders of the great People that came before them.
I really like what Jefferson Morley has done and I think he is bang on the money with Joahnides.
The big Indian is all over the place too.

The Work you guys have done has also reignited some of my own fires..and is very important stuff. The wesley Frazier work is incredible and as for Prayer man.. wow.. great research , even if my arse has got splinters in it.
I have been watching a long time.And if I can make a small contribution , i gladly will do so.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7003986-181/smith-finding-strange-bedfellows-among?artslide=0

She won't stop lying







Smith: Finding strange bedfellows among JFK conspiracy fans

CHRIS SMITH
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT | May 17, 2017, 5:47PM

Ruth Paine knows something about highly literate, violence-averse progressives often leery of the federal government.
God knows, she is one.
The Santa Rosan also is somebody with a unique perspective on Lee Harvey Oswald. As such, Paine is troubled to see so many liberal people continue to embrace scenarios that portray Oswald as a patsy of the true assassins of President John F. Kennedy, shadowy figures from the CIA, Havana, Moscow, the mob or some other snake-nest of conspiracy.
“It’s been more than 50 years,” the 84-year-old Paine told a clutch of neighbors Tuesday evening in the library at the Friends House retirement community in Rincon Valley. The Quaker and retired teacher said she’d hoped it would have become evident long ago, certainly to open and analytical minds, “that Oswald did it.”
For months before the president was killed in Texas in 1963, Paine, then a young mother of two, allowed Oswald into her home in the Dallas suburb of Irving. She had befriended and was trying to be helpful to Oswald’s Russian wife, Marina.
Even on the night before President Kennedy was shot in a motorcade, the same night Paine discovered that Oswald had gone into her garage for some reason, she had no reason to believe he was a potential killer. She realized later that he’d gone into the garage to retrieve something he’d hidden there: a rifle.
Paine saw a fair amount of Oswald in 1963 and she cites several reasons for believing that he planned the assassination abruptly and he acted alone. Since the murder of JFK, she has testified before the Warren Commission, been interviewed numerous times and tried to counteract what she views as the untruths and errors contained within the various conspiracy theories.
“I hate having truth besmirched,” she told the several dozen Friends House residents.
Paine is well aware that almost 54 years after the assassination, conspiracy narratives continue to attract new adherents. A Stanford grad, Max Good, works currently on a documentary film that examines allegations that when Paine invited the Oswalds into her home, she was answering to the Central Intelligence Agency.
She said to her fellow Friends House residents, “Did you know I worked for the CIA?”
She holds that for liberal-minded people to subscribe to who-killed-JFK narratives is especially regrettable because she accepts the assertion that five decades ago the Soviet Union’s KGB security agency fueled conspiracy mongering by spreading misinformation that implicated the CIA in the assassination.
“Russia is still planting things,” she told her neighbors, “because we still read it.”


http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7003986-181/smith-finding-strange-bedfellows-among?artslide=0

Thanks Ed,

Those underlined sentences say it all really.

Because of what we know now and have for sometime, this one line from Ruth Paine says loudly she is guilty of framing Oswald. Nothing more nothing less.

The Quaker and retired teacher said she’d hoped it would have become evident long ago, certainly to open and analytical minds, “that Oswald did it.”

Sorry if this excerpt from a Billy Boy Brown from the Ass forum may cause some of you to gag but I think it pertinent to how Ruth Paine still operates to this day:

Bill Brown:
I am in the San Francisco Bay Area for a couple weeks. Today, I went up to Santa Rosa and met Ruth Paine. I was able to sit down with her for forty-five minutes and I found her to be extremely polite and accommodating. When she first came into the room, I noticed that she was carrying a piece of paper with her. I stood up and introduced myself to her and we shook hands. She smiled.

We sat down and she immediately said that she had a question for me. I thought that she was going to ask me for my opinion on whether Lee Oswald was a lone gunman or not, in the assassination. Instead, she asked my for my thoughts on the attempt on the life of General Walker. I responded by saying that I believed that Lee Oswald alone was responsible for the shooting attempt on April 10th, 1963.

She then asked me why I believed that Oswald was the responsible party. My primary answer to that question was that the letter that Lee left behind for Marina convinced me that Lee tried to kill Walker. Then, I added that the testimony of Marina, pertaining to the incident, also convinced me that Lee tried to kill Walker.

As I mentioned to her the letter that Lee left behind for Marina, she handed me the piece of paper that she had in her hand. It was a copy of the letter, itself. She told me that whenever she meets people who wish to talk to her about the assassination, she always asks for their position on the Walker shooting. I asked her how she would have responded if I had told her that I did not believe the Lee was responsible for the attempt on Walker's life. She smiled and replied that she would have told me to go back and research some more. She hinted that she will only talk seriously with those who accept that Lee tried to kill General Walker.

I was able to talk to her for forty-five minutes. She was very pleasant. She smiled. She joked. I think that it is an absolute shame that this woman, who was trying to help another, was thrust into the spotlight and has been accused by some of participating in some sort of frame up of the patsy. Nothing could be further from the truth.

And then Bill creamed himself.

She smiled.

We sat down and she immediately said that she had a question for me. I thought that she was going to ask me for my opinion on whether Lee Oswald was a lone gunman or not, in the assassination. Instead, she asked my for my thoughts on the attempt on the life of General Walker.

Of course if you believe that Oswald shot Walkers window then you will be dumb enough to believe any late 'assassination' of Lee Oswald by Ruth.ed


I responded by saying that I believed that Lee Oswald alone was responsible for the shooting attempt on April 10th, 1963.

Again contrary to all available evidence....ed

She then asked me why I believed that Oswald was the responsible party. My primary answer to that question was that the letter that Lee left behind for Marina convinced me that Lee tried to kill Walker.

A circumstancial "letter"is the only and best evidence this Sherlock Holmes will ever find.ed

Then, I added that the testimony of Marina, pertaining to the incident, also convinced me that Lee tried to kill Walker.

A well documented liar covering for herself and children is his support. And yet he forgets that Marina has recounted. He could never speak about that with Ruth though...Chilling. Ed

He was too busy containing his boner. 45mins is blue balls territory. I bet once she left he just jizzed on himself. That Walker letter she carries around says it all. Its LN porn.

She likely wrote it...

Not to mention its meaningless as "evidence"

Actually would work against the prosecution in court

Ed. Ledoux wrote:She likely wrote it...

Not to mention its meaningless as "evidence"

Actually would work against the prosecution in court

She most likely did. The fact that she bandies it about goes to show how meaningful she wants something so meaningless to be proven as evidence. She is a 8smiling, polite and not to mention pleasant and accommodating bald faced liar.

Paul Francisco Paso wrote:He was too busy containing his boner. 45mins is blue balls territory. I bet once she left he just jizzed on himself. That Walker letter she carries around says it all. Its LN porn.

 LNer porn 

I wanted to ask something and this seemed like the right thread for it. I noticed something in Paine's testimony from 3/23/64, which was while they were in Paine's garage, that I hadn't seen discussed in any of the recent debate on this topic:

Mr. JENNER - Now, would you please search the rest of that shelf and see if you can find any other curtain rods or anything similar to the curtain rods, and look on the bottom shelves, Mr. Howlett, will you please? While he is doing that, Mrs. Paine, I notice there is on your garage floor what looks like a file casing you have for documents similar, at least it seems substantially identical to those that we had in Washington last week.

Mrs. PAINE - This is a filing case similar, yes, slightly different in color to one that you had in Washington. It contains madrigal music. It was on November 22 at the apartment where my husband was living.

Agent HOWLETT - I have just finished searching both shelves and I don't find any other curtain rods.

Was this ever followed up on with Michael Paine? Did they ever even open the box? Of course not, but is there any significance here? As Greg D. pointed out that the Ed forum, there is a discrepancy in the number of file boxes found at the Paine home in the police inventory list and what was received by the FBI and WC. The DPD list says that six boxes were retrieved from the home, but the FBI and WC say they received seven. Greg's interpretation is that the DPD just made a mistake, which may very well be correct, but I can imagine various scenarios of switcheroo where the paperwork might end up the way it did. On the other hand, it's not like the DPD were averse to listing controversial items on their inventories, like the Minox. 

It could be nothing, but it is relevant to the debate in that it is evidence Paine did keep the metal file boxes in her garage. Greg D. did a lot of arguing that the boxes were found elsewhere in the house, but I think this suggests otherwise.

To go off on a wild tangent here, I have always wondered about the madrigal singing and folk-dancing they participated in. 

Putting aside the fact that this stuff is at the core of a number of classic films that scare without typical "horror" features, and looking solely at these cultural pursuits due to them being used for both propaganda and spying during the Cold War. 

There was a famous case here in Australia in 1948 - the death of an unknown man which gained world-wide publicity as the Taman Shud case.

It was concluded he was poisoned by an unknown substance. It was also determined that he was very likely a dancer.

He was described as having "broad shoulders and a narrow waist, hands and nails that showed no signs of manual labour, big and little toes that met in a wedge shape, like those of a dancer or someone who wore boots with pointed toes; and pronounced high calf muscles consistent with people who regularly wore boots or shoes with high heels or performed ballet"

His death was in the same state as Woomera

"Woomera was established in 1948 to house up to 6000 military personnel and others working in the WPA (Woomera Protected Area)." This was tied up with British attempts to develop a nuclear capability. 
https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/travel/travel-destinations/2010/05/woomera-nuclear-danger-zone/

But I digress. Ruth's madrigal and folk-dance interests were probably real, given father and son would later organize camps for 12 year old girls to celebrate there "coming of age" as budding "godesses" with all manner of ancient rituals. 

Ruth digging madrigals and folk dancing the same way Doyle digs Hendrix however does not preclude attendance at these events for more than just pleasure.