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StanDane- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71 
Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Thu 11 Aug 2016, 6:23 pm
First topic message reminder :
This is full rebuild of the hugely popular thread created by Mick Purdy at the Webs forum in February 2015. – Stan
Mick Purdy
I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.
I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.
I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.
I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.
I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.
Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.
The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.
Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.
Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.
From the HSCA interview of Shields
To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.
Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.
In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.
This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.
The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………
An alternative scenario
Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)
What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!
Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.
Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. What follows is some of my conjecture.
Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.
Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."
Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?
I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement.
This is full rebuild of the hugely popular thread created by Mick Purdy at the Webs forum in February 2015. – Stan
Mick Purdy
I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.
I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.
I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.
I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.
I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.
Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.
The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.
Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.
Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.
From the HSCA interview of Shields
SHIELDS: I think Charles Givens hollered out there and asked Frazier where was his rider and he told him: "I dropped him off at the building." Yeah, that was it...Well, I was down on the floor when they hollered out and said and the answer he gave them, I don't know, I think he said: "I dropped him off at the building." Now, whoever it was hollering asked him, I don't know.
DAY: This is the morning of the assassination?
SHIELDS: Mm-hmm.
DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."
SHIELDS: Yes.
DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?
SHIELDS: No I didn’t.
To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.
Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.
In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.
This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.
The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………
An alternative scenario
Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)
What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!
Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.
Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. What follows is some of my conjecture.
Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.
Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."
Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?
I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement.
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:22 pm
Mick Purdy
We know Frazier was in the custody of the police Friday evening and Oswald was in their custody also, and the DPD at some time in the early evening of the 22nd had information that Willie Randle was being investigated for alleged involvement with regard to the assassination. Possibly as a co conspirator.
There is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities could have believed that Randle was the man who gave Oswald the lift to work because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the telescopic scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87)
Is it possible that Frazier was hauled back into police headquarters because of this information. Is it possible Frazier was polygraphed, and having answered untruthfully with regard to ever observing a sack, the lift he gave to Oswald into work, and the walk into the TSBD, that he found himself in very deep water.
Is it possible Frazier could have found himself in a very awkward position, having to sign statements which may have been false.
Remember:
Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.
No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.
On December 1st 1963 Odum and McNeely interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider, Mrs Mary Ponder, Mr and Mrs Victor Embry, Mrs James Goodwin, Mr and Mrs James Williams, and Mr and Mrs Ed Roberts. All were neighbors of the Paines and Randles. None had seen Oswald as he walked over from the Paine residence to the Randle house on the morning of the assassination - carrying a large package or otherwise.
In other words nobody else apart from Randle and Frazier saw Lee, whatsoever package or not. Period!
Sheilds: HSCA
DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?
SHIELDS: No I didn’t.
DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."
SHIELDS: Yes.
We know Frazier was in the custody of the police Friday evening and Oswald was in their custody also, and the DPD at some time in the early evening of the 22nd had information that Willie Randle was being investigated for alleged involvement with regard to the assassination. Possibly as a co conspirator.
There is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities could have believed that Randle was the man who gave Oswald the lift to work because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the telescopic scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87)
Is it possible that Frazier was hauled back into police headquarters because of this information. Is it possible Frazier was polygraphed, and having answered untruthfully with regard to ever observing a sack, the lift he gave to Oswald into work, and the walk into the TSBD, that he found himself in very deep water.
Is it possible Frazier could have found himself in a very awkward position, having to sign statements which may have been false.
Remember:
Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.
No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.
On December 1st 1963 Odum and McNeely interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider, Mrs Mary Ponder, Mr and Mrs Victor Embry, Mrs James Goodwin, Mr and Mrs James Williams, and Mr and Mrs Ed Roberts. All were neighbors of the Paines and Randles. None had seen Oswald as he walked over from the Paine residence to the Randle house on the morning of the assassination - carrying a large package or otherwise.
In other words nobody else apart from Randle and Frazier saw Lee, whatsoever package or not. Period!
Sheilds: HSCA
DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?
SHIELDS: No I didn’t.
DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."
SHIELDS: Yes.
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:31 pm
Mick Purdy
Funny but I've never seen pictures of Wes's car on that fateful day with Oswald sitting in the front passenger seat, parked in the middle of Elm, at the assassination site, just near the knoll.
The car that drove Oswald, what a clever car
Funny but I've never seen pictures of Wes's car on that fateful day with Oswald sitting in the front passenger seat, parked in the middle of Elm, at the assassination site, just near the knoll.
The car that drove Oswald, what a clever car
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:32 pm
Terry Martin
I came across something a little odd. A short bio of BWF at IMDB says he married Beverly J on June 7th, 1962.
Is that correct? So why wasn't he living with his blushing bride or was he in the same sort of marital hot water as Oswald?
I came across something a little odd. A short bio of BWF at IMDB says he married Beverly J on June 7th, 1962.
Is that correct? So why wasn't he living with his blushing bride or was he in the same sort of marital hot water as Oswald?
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:34 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy
Funny but I've never seen pictures of Wes's car on that fateful day with Oswald sitting in the front passenger seat, parked in the middle of Elm, at the assassination site, just near the knoll.
The car that drove Oswald, what a clever car
Terry Martin
Mick the reason you never saw the car parked out on Elm is because at that time it was parked on the seventh floor of the TSBD, back-firing while it waited for Oswald to finish shooting.
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:35 pm
Hasan Yusuf
Fascinating bit of information, Terry. As they say, you learn something new every day.
Mick the reason you never saw the car parked out on Elm is because at that time it was parked on the seventh floor of the TSBD, back-firing while it waited for Oswald to finish shooting.
Fascinating bit of information, Terry. As they say, you learn something new every day.
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:40 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Colin Crow
Frazier has claimed to have been referred to the TSBD by the Massey Employment company. Not sure of spelling, might be Massie.
Ed Ledoux
Buell Wesley Frazier employment agency info.
Gould Massey Personnel Agency 211 N. Ervay Bldg. Dallas Tx, filed corporate filing 1959.
Evelyn Fulton of Fulton Louise Gould and Grace Massey of Gould Massey all of Dallas
http://newspaperarchive.com/us/texas/grand-prairie/grand-prairie-news-texan/1965/05-24/page-2
Could Evelyn Fulton be our gal whom got Buell the job?? 972-344-9956 : Evelyn Fulton, Bryan St, Dallas Texas
Grace Massey?
Evelyn later had her own agency in Dallas in the '70's
http://www.corporationwiki.com/Texas/Dallas/evelyn-fulton/31076262.aspx
A typical advert in the employment section, this from the Waco Tribune:
A ARE YOU CONTEMPLATING A MOVE TO THE DALLAS AREA? We specialize in personelle servirce for you, the newcomer whether you ore a Beginner or Experienced in office work. Come In — Write — Coll Gould-Massey Personnel LOUISE GOULD - HELEN MASSEV III NO. CRVAV BLDG Rl — Dallas, Texas
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/48084158/
Gould-Massey Personnel LOUISE GOULD - HELEN MASSLV 211 NO ERVAY BLOG, Rl 7 7771 Dallas, Texos DEANIE JoHNSoN APVI80RS_ RECRUITING EXECUTIVE.
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/48076672/
DEANIE JOHNSON may have been at the agency in '63 and may be the lady whom got BWF the job?
Helen Massey, deceased.
Funeral Home in Granbury directed. Massey Personnel Agency until her retirement in 1980. She moved to Little Rock, Ark. in 1981 and lived there for 12 years before returning to the Dallas area in 1993 . Survivors include her husband, James A. "Jim" Wilson of Granbury; four brothers, Billy Massey and Clymoth "C.R." Massey, both of Fort . Worth, Frank Massey of Denton and Charles Massey of Burleson; six nephews; and three nieces. ' Services were Wednesday, Feb. 7, 1996 at Restland Funeral Home in Dallas with Dr. Orvil Joe Stephens officiating. Burial was in Restland Memorial Park - http://hcnews.newspapers.com/newspage/59260169/
Continues:
Helen M. Wilson Retired business co-owner Helen Massey Wilson of Pecan Plantation, retired co-owner of Gould Massey Personnel Agency, died Sunday, Feb. 4, 1996 in Granbury. She was 71. Mrs. Wilson was born Nov. 26, 1924 in Johnson County and was reared in Burleson. She was a longtime resident of Dallas and Richardson and co-owned the Gould era tl.
- StanDane
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:42 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Greg Parker
One more thing... Frazier was brought down from Huntsville at around the time that a Dallas motorcade was given the go-ahead and the venue decided. At that point, the route was always going to take JFK past the book depository. There is also the discrepancy about how Frazier got the job. He claimed he got it through an Irving employment agency. Linnie claimed she suggested it to him. Not aware of any evidence the TSBD even used any employment agencies, but I believe they may have used the TEC In any case, I have long suspected that Wes was placed in there as part of the overall plan.
Ed Ledoux
MANNING Employment service 1820 W. Shady Grove BL4-014O
The Irving Daily News Texan » 1962 » April » 22 Apr 1962, Sun » Page 5
Manning employment on shady grove? Where Wes hought he got the job?
Any connection to the Tucker Manning insurance agency?
- StanDane
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:39 pm
Ed Ledoux
MANNING Employment Service 1820 W. Shady Grove, Irving BL 2-8834 ORDER FILLING you’ll learn that plus receiving, shipping and sales on trruive job for alert hriili sc 1 k ) o 1 izraduat(\ age 18 25 5 dass, Hrook Hollow. Salary open MANNING Employment Service 1820 W. Shady Grove, Irving BL 2 8834
The Irving News Record » 1959 » September » 3 Sep 1959, Thu » Page 10
Manning Employment Service 1820 W. Shady Grove BL4-0146
The Irving Daily News Texan » 1962 » May » 30 May 1962, Wed » Page 14
We find the ad for Sept '63 when Wes was looking and we're golden!
Mr. BALL - Where do you work?
Mr. FRAZIER - Work at Texas School Books.
Mr. BALL - How long have you worked there?
Mr. FRAZIER - I have been working there since September.
Mr. BALL - September of 1963?
Mr. FRAZIER - Correct.
Mr. BALL - What kind of work do you do there?
Mr. FRAZIER - I fill orders.
Mr. BALL - How did you happen to get that job?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I went to see, first I come up there and started looking for a job and couldn't find one myself so I went to one of these employment agencies and through that a lady called up one morning, I was fixing to go out and look for one, I was looking for myself in the meantime when they were, too, and so she called up and gave me a tip to it if I was interested in a job like that I could go over there and see about that and for the time being I wasn't working and needed some money and so I did and I went over there and saw Mr. Truly, and he gave me an interview, and then he hired me the same day I went over there.
Mr. BALL - You say you came up, you mean you came up from Huntsville?
Mr. FRAZIER - That is right; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - That was in September 1963?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; it was.
Mr. BALL - Looking for a job around Dallas?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did you go to live with your sister at that time?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL - What--where is the employment agency and what is its name when you first applied for a job?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I went to several but, see, this one got me this job the main one was Massey, the employment agency, and it is over there on Shady Grove Road.
Mr. BALL - In Dallas?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; in Irving.
Mr. BALL - How do you spell that name, the name of the employment agency?
Mr. FRAZIER - Massey?
Mr. BALL - Yes.
Mr. FRAZIER - I believe it is M-a-s-s-e-y.
Mr. BALL - And it was a woman at the employment agency that called you and told you to go to see the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, right.
Mr. BALL - And you went to see Mr. Truly and after an interview he gave you a job?
Mr. FRAZIER - Correct.
Mr. BALL - Then you started work there about what date in September?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was the 13th. I say that was the same day I went for an interview. I went early enough that morning that he told me to come back after lunch.
Mr. BALL - And you are still working there?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - When Mr. Truly hired you did he tell you it would be a full-time job or just a temporary job?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; he told me that he was looking for somebody full time and I told him, well, that is what I wanted, and so he said that would be just fine.
Mr. BALL - How much did he start to pay you?
Mr. FRAZIER - He started me off with a dollar and a quarter an hour.
Mr. BALL - That is for an eight-hour day?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right. Five days a week.
MANNING Employment Service 1820 W. Shady Grove, Irving BL 2-8834 ORDER FILLING you’ll learn that plus receiving, shipping and sales on trruive job for alert hriili sc 1 k ) o 1 izraduat(\ age 18 25 5 dass, Hrook Hollow. Salary open MANNING Employment Service 1820 W. Shady Grove, Irving BL 2 8834
The Irving News Record » 1959 » September » 3 Sep 1959, Thu » Page 10
Manning Employment Service 1820 W. Shady Grove BL4-0146
The Irving Daily News Texan » 1962 » May » 30 May 1962, Wed » Page 14
We find the ad for Sept '63 when Wes was looking and we're golden!
Mr. BALL - Where do you work?
Mr. FRAZIER - Work at Texas School Books.
Mr. BALL - How long have you worked there?
Mr. FRAZIER - I have been working there since September.
Mr. BALL - September of 1963?
Mr. FRAZIER - Correct.
Mr. BALL - What kind of work do you do there?
Mr. FRAZIER - I fill orders.
Mr. BALL - How did you happen to get that job?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I went to see, first I come up there and started looking for a job and couldn't find one myself so I went to one of these employment agencies and through that a lady called up one morning, I was fixing to go out and look for one, I was looking for myself in the meantime when they were, too, and so she called up and gave me a tip to it if I was interested in a job like that I could go over there and see about that and for the time being I wasn't working and needed some money and so I did and I went over there and saw Mr. Truly, and he gave me an interview, and then he hired me the same day I went over there.
Mr. BALL - You say you came up, you mean you came up from Huntsville?
Mr. FRAZIER - That is right; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - That was in September 1963?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; it was.
Mr. BALL - Looking for a job around Dallas?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did you go to live with your sister at that time?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL - What--where is the employment agency and what is its name when you first applied for a job?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I went to several but, see, this one got me this job the main one was Massey, the employment agency, and it is over there on Shady Grove Road.
Mr. BALL - In Dallas?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; in Irving.
Mr. BALL - How do you spell that name, the name of the employment agency?
Mr. FRAZIER - Massey?
Mr. BALL - Yes.
Mr. FRAZIER - I believe it is M-a-s-s-e-y.
Mr. BALL - And it was a woman at the employment agency that called you and told you to go to see the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, right.
Mr. BALL - And you went to see Mr. Truly and after an interview he gave you a job?
Mr. FRAZIER - Correct.
Mr. BALL - Then you started work there about what date in September?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was the 13th. I say that was the same day I went for an interview. I went early enough that morning that he told me to come back after lunch.
Mr. BALL - And you are still working there?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - When Mr. Truly hired you did he tell you it would be a full-time job or just a temporary job?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; he told me that he was looking for somebody full time and I told him, well, that is what I wanted, and so he said that would be just fine.
Mr. BALL - How much did he start to pay you?
Mr. FRAZIER - He started me off with a dollar and a quarter an hour.
Mr. BALL - That is for an eight-hour day?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right. Five days a week.
- StanDane
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:41 pm
Ed Ledoux
I looked through a weeks' worth of classifieds for Sept 4-13
No ads for jobs, by Manning or any others for warehouse/order fillers.
Should I be surprised?
I looked through a weeks' worth of classifieds for Sept 4-13
No ads for jobs, by Manning or any others for warehouse/order fillers.
Should I be surprised?
- StanDane
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:41 pm
Greg Parker
There was another partner... at least until May, 1963... http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=98521327
There was another partner... at least until May, 1963... http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=98521327
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:43 pm
Ed Ledoux
Hilarious, another Willie William Bill....
William Seibert Freytag, Jr
He was vice president of Borg-Warner Acceptance Corp. and co-owner of Gould-Massey Employment Service in Dallas.
Tie between Borg Warner and TSBD through the agency perhaps, at least till May '63?
Hilarious, another Willie William Bill....
William Seibert Freytag, Jr
He was vice president of Borg-Warner Acceptance Corp. and co-owner of Gould-Massey Employment Service in Dallas.
Tie between Borg Warner and TSBD through the agency perhaps, at least till May '63?
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:47 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Terry Martin
I came across something a little odd. A short bio of BWF at IMDB says he married Beverly J on June 7th, 1962.
Is that correct? So why wasn't he living with his blushing bride or was he in the same sort of marital hot water as Oswald?
Ed Ledoux
Seems contagious.
Paines separate Sept.
Oswalds separate Sept.
Wesley separates Sept
Hmmmm me see a pattern.
Kinda like the word SLUMP used to describe JFK.
Connally - He Slumped "[John] Connally saw the President "slump"
BRW Williams - He Slumped
Clint Hill - second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left.
Kellerman testified, "I turned around to find out what happened when two additional shots rang out and the President slumped into Mrs. Kennedy's lap."
Mrs. Mary Norman of Dallas was standing at the curb and at that moment was aiming her camera at the President. She saw him slump forward, then slide down ~ NY TIMES
Mr. F. LEE MUDD sounded to him like two gunshots, and he saw the President slump.
T.E. Moore (24 H 534, "President KENNEDY had reached the Thornton Freeway sign, a shot was fired and Mr. MOORE observed the President slumping forward in the Presidential car.")
Abraham Zapruder (TV interview at 2:00 pm Nov. 22/63: " I heard a shot, and he slumped to the side, like this. Then I heard another shot or two, I couldn't say it was one or two)
SA George Hickey (CE1024, 18 H 761. Perhaps 2 or 3 seconds elapsed from the time I looked to the rear and then looked at the President. He was slumped forward
Harold Norman (3 H 191. “but I know I hear d a shot, and then after I heard the shot, well, it seems as though the President, you know, slumped or something,”)
Malcolm Summers (Affidavit, 19 H 500 “The President's car had just come up in front of me when I heard a shot and saw the President slump down
Mary Moorman (Affidavit, 19 H 487, “As I snapped the picture of President Kennedy, I heard a shot ring out. President Kennedy kind of slumped over.”
Charles Brehm (Dallas Times Herald statement, Nov. 22, 1963 “The witness Brehm was shaking uncontrollably as he further described the shooting. ‘The first shot must not have been too solid, because he just slumped’.”)
S M Holland, After the first shot the President slumped over
Its as though the slump or slumping would be so prolific amongst witnesses is like a mass brainwashing, much like three shots.
Newspapers picked up on the slumping slump and ran with it. http://www.jfk-info.com/Cchurch.txt
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:49 pm
Terry Martin
Very interesting, Ed.
An awful lot of slumping going on while JFK was stumping. And the marriages that were slumping as well, all three... weird. Too bad nobody took advantage of it by creating a new dance called "The Slump".
The article in the Christchurch star was most enlightening. Although, I wonder why no one else has ever mentioned the dog in the middle of the road that Mr. & Mrs. Kennedy were looking at.
Very interesting, Ed.
An awful lot of slumping going on while JFK was stumping. And the marriages that were slumping as well, all three... weird. Too bad nobody took advantage of it by creating a new dance called "The Slump".
The article in the Christchurch star was most enlightening. Although, I wonder why no one else has ever mentioned the dog in the middle of the road that Mr. & Mrs. Kennedy were looking at.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:50 pm
Barto
Yes Terry, the dog was called Slumpy.
Yes Terry, the dog was called Slumpy.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:51 pm
Ed Ledoux
Everyone Do the Slumpty Slump.
First a slump to the left, then straighten up, now throw your head back and to the left, back and to the left, back and to the left...
...the dog was called Slumpy
Nice Bart!
Everyone Do the Slumpty Slump.
First a slump to the left, then straighten up, now throw your head back and to the left, back and to the left, back and to the left...
...the dog was called Slumpy
Nice Bart!- StanDane
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:52 pm
Mick Purdy
Kinda like Oswald Ducking everywhere....
Kinda like Oswald Ducking everywhere....
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:53 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy
Kinda like Oswald Ducking everywhere....
Greg Parker
Damn Mick, you beat me to it... so I'll go with him being an "od duck" by way of explaing all his ducking...
"In other words, Stephen, do you think Oswald was just an Odd Duck doing one of his Odd Ducky things"
"Frisk queries Oswald, curious about the odd duck he has in custody."
"Nosenko had insisted that the Soviets considered Oswald an odd duck"
"And Oswald was a pretty odd duck, I could se how he would stand out"
"Fatal Deception otherwise portrays Mr. Oswald as an odd duck"
"She described Oswald as being quiet, who kept to himself and was “an odd duck.”"
"Chapman [obviously related to Oswald] is a very, very odd duck, though."
But hang on... Michael Paine was one too..."We had talked about--Michael is a little, I couldn't call him an odd duck, but he is ..."
Beggoraggh! David Ferrie, as well "The premise of odd duck David William Ferrie"
Let's not leave Jim Jones out, okay? "Jim Jones was an odd duck"
"He also remembers "he was an Odd duck"."
"remember him as an odd duck There are reports that Oswald was often seen walking backwards"
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:55 pm
Ed Ledoux
Hey if it walks like a duck .....well you know the rest
Didn't the HALLS separate in September also???
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190951/m1/1/
Hey if it walks like a duck .....well you know the rest
Didn't the HALLS separate in September also???
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190951/m1/1/
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:56 pm
Terry Martin
Yes, Ed, September in 1962. Though they seem to be back together by Easter '63 if I am reading the doc right.
Hall seems to keep disappearing although no one mentions any slumping or ducking...
Yes, Ed, September in 1962. Though they seem to be back together by Easter '63 if I am reading the doc right.
Hall seems to keep disappearing although no one mentions any slumping or ducking...
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:58 pm
Greg Parker
Have been looking for a series of docs I found ages ago... going into all of the Soviet girls running around Dallas separated or divorced... Elana Hall was one... but there were others... some with young children.
The Paines were also September '62 -- not 1963... but you can also look at the guys from CUSA -- they all separated from girlfriends and wives, as well.
Have been looking for a series of docs I found ages ago... going into all of the Soviet girls running around Dallas separated or divorced... Elana Hall was one... but there were others... some with young children.
The Paines were also September '62 -- not 1963... but you can also look at the guys from CUSA -- they all separated from girlfriends and wives, as well.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 4:00 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Ed Ledoux
I looked through a weeks' worth of classifieds for Sept 4-13
No ads for jobs, by Manning or any others for warehouse/order fillers.
Should I be surprised?
Greg Parker
Great job!
I find it difficult to believe the TSBD used an Irving agency. Low level jobs like that, you worry about the persons ability to get to work. Standard question if not regarded as local... do you have a reliable car or other reliable means of transport? So to avoid worrying about transport, you would be using an agency close by...
Did Wes even need to move to Irving to find work? Huntsville is (I believe) a similar distance from Austin as Irving is from Dallas. Why not take advantage of your despised step-father being away for a while and stay in Huntsville. If there really was no work locally, start looking in Austin.
What we are left with is him moving to Irving around the time the Dallas luncheon venue is resolved...
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 4:01 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Ed Ledoux
I looked through a weeks' worth of classifieds for Sept 4-13
No ads for jobs, by Manning or any others for warehouse/order fillers.
Should I be surprised?
Greg Parker
Great job!
I find it difficult to believe the TSBD used an Irving agency. Low level jobs like that, you worry about the persons ability to get to work. Standard question if not regarded as local... do you have a reliable car or other reliable means of transport? So to avoid worrying about transport, you would be using an agency close by...
Did Wes even need to move to Irving to find work? Huntsville is (I believe) a similar distance from Austin as Irving is from Dallas. Why not take advantage of your despised step-father being away for a while and stay in Huntsville. If there really was no work locally, start looking in Austin.
What we are left with is him moving to Irving around the time the Dallas luncheon venue is resolved...
Greg Parker
Sorry... should have checked first. Huntsville is about 70 miles from Houston... so probably to far to commute for him...
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 4:02 pm
Greg Parker
Beverly Joan Frazier, born May, 1945, lives, Paris, Texas.
Buell was one of the few who was not asked about his marital statis by the WC...
Beverly Joan Frazier, born May, 1945, lives, Paris, Texas.
Buell was one of the few who was not asked about his marital statis by the WC...
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 4:04 pm
Greg Parker
Melissa Markham Facebook, Twitter & MySpace on PeekYou
www.peekyou.com/melissa_markham
Known Locations: Charleston WV, 25313, Hurricane WV 25526, Winfield WV 25213 Possible Relatives: Beverly Joan Frazier, John P Frazier, John M Frazier.
http://www.peekyou.com/melissa_markham
Melissa Markham Facebook, Twitter & MySpace on PeekYou
www.peekyou.com/melissa_markham
Known Locations: Charleston WV, 25313, Hurricane WV 25526, Winfield WV 25213 Possible Relatives: Beverly Joan Frazier, John P Frazier, John M Frazier.
http://www.peekyou.com/melissa_markham
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Mon 15 Aug 2016, 4:05 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Greg Parker
Melissa Markham Facebook, Twitter & MySpace on PeekYou
www.peekyou.com/melissa_markham
Known Locations: Charleston WV, 25313, Hurricane WV 25526, Winfield WV 25213 Possible Relatives: Beverly Joan Frazier, John P Frazier, John M Frazier.
http://www.peekyou.com/melissa_markham
Terry Martin
If our very own, lovable, Buell was married to a relative of the shady Markham family - and it is just a possibility at the moment, I am sure - it marks the whole case suddenly very much more interesting. As if it needed it, huh?
With the Markham connections with the Bonnie and Clyde fun bunch, no telling what Mr & Mrs BWF were connected to.
That is, if these connections pan out...
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