Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

First topic message reminder :

This is full rebuild of the hugely popular thread created by Mick Purdy at the Webs forum in February 2015. – Stan

Mick Purdy

I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.

I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.

I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.

I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.

I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.

Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.

The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.

Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.

Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.
  
From the HSCA interview of Shields
 

SHIELDS: I think Charles Givens hollered out there and asked Frazier where was his rider and he told him: "I dropped him off at the building." Yeah, that was it...Well, I was down on the floor when they hollered out and said and the answer he gave them, I don't know, I think he said: "I dropped him off at the building." Now, whoever it was hollering asked him, I don't know.
DAY: This is the morning of the assassination?
SHIELDS: Mm-hmm.
DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."
SHIELDS: Yes.
DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?
SHIELDS: No I didn’t.

 
To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.

Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.

In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.

This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.

The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………
 
An alternative scenario

Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)

What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!

Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.

Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. What follows is some of my conjecture.

Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.

Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."

Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?

I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement.

Vinny

If only Frazier would admit who Prayer Man is. That would be a great breakthrough.

Mick Purdy

Vinny,
I am with completely with you: Lee Oswald was the Prayer Man. What a shame that no one from those standing in the doorway was willing to say this.

I think we need to get to the first generation, high-res copies of Wiegman, Darnell, Altgens, and all the visual evidence. If we had this, the case would be reopen automatically, something which would result from avalanche of citizens' opinions, like after Oliver Stone film. I have not been passive so far, and asked NBC Universal for a copy of Wiegman's film - they did not even respond. It went along slightly better with Altgens 6 since a UK representative actually offered me to sell a picture for 60 GBP- in 300 dpi and strongly retouched (these can be downloaded from internet for free). After I asked for a real high res picture, willing to pay more for extra work associated with digitizing it, they send me a 90Mb JPG file having 1240 dpi. The point was, however, that these 1240 dpi were achieved by plain Resize operation on the 300 dpi picture they offered me before. National Archives also stopped responding to my queries after sending me an initial mail that they will come back to me... I am sure many researchers have the same experience.

So, we spend much time on low-res, blurred images hoping to reveal something. I am thinking how to revive the PM from Darnell's frames, as I know you do. However, my enthusiasm cannot compensate the lack of my knowledge of computer photography. I am slowly learning it, thinking of independent component analysis to retrieve some facial features from the low signal, thinking of a 3D reconstruction of PM's head, however, we speak about many months of work and uncertain results, and investments of funds for computer programs. Maybe, it would be better to start approaching digital photography labs and experts and to try to persuade them to help.

Stan Dane wrote:Vinny

If only Frazier would admit who Prayer Man is. That would be a great breakthrough.

Mick Purdy

That is the $64.00 question isn't it. Like most others here I believe PM is Lee, Frazier's almost standing right next to him and even looks like he's conversing with Pm at one point. Don't underestimate the level of deceit spewing from the poor old victim Wes, he's a liar and IMO provably so.

RevPink89

First post. I love the site and have read all 37 pages of this thread. Wow!!

My first reaction:

Assumptions - There was a conspiracy to kill JFK. LHO was the Patsy. In regards to the preparation of the assassination and LHO: At least half of Jim Garrison's sheep dipping research is basically accurate, Ruth Paine was in place and active in the framing, LHO placed and obviously some sort of leverage on his wife,  photos were doctored and ready, a throw down weapon was prepared (and was obviously taken into the TSBD without detection), IDs and back stories completed, media management schemes, etc., etc., and countless other details all for the Patsy. You have fail safe plans, undercover people on the ground, the ability to manipulate or at least influence the police and eventually the WC.

Who needs a paper bag and BW Frazier? Did the string pullers really think that LHO wouldn't be convicted in a court or in the media without BWF and the curtain rod story? IMO it was never a part of the plan to even let LHO live to have a day in court.

Also, there has been so much about LHO's movements after the shots. Has Roger Craig just been totally dismissed?

Mick Purdy

Thanks for the post: This thread is the culmination of the work done by many here at ROKC. This thread was only possible due to the extraordinary research sharing which goes on here.

There's not a lot I can add to what you've said.
(quote):  "Who needs a paper bag and BW Frazier?"  

Certainly the court of public opinion. Certainly the DPD, certainly the media and on it goes. IMO the bag and the curtain rod story literally crucified Oswald. Without it there is no Oswald taking that MC throwdown into the building......and wasn't it really only 1 or 2 brushstrokes among many before the final picture could be seen.....

The backyard photo's, the throw down, the bag, the curtain rods, leftist connections, the gun, the shells, the wallet, the wedding ring, the money on the dresser, the "escape" from the TSBD, the Tippit murder, the white jacket, the flawed line ups, and on and on it goes.

No, the bag and the curtain rod story were needed, to convincingly convict Oswald in the eyes of the world, forever, as the crazed lone assassin of JFK for time immemorial.

Stan Dane wrote:RevPink89

First post. I love the site and have read all 37 pages of this thread. Wow!!

My first reaction:

Assumptions - There was a conspiracy to kill JFK. LHO was the Patsy. In regards to the preparation of the assassination and LHO: At least half of Jim Garrison's sheep dipping research is basically accurate, Ruth Paine was in place and active in the framing, LHO placed and obviously some sort of leverage on his wife,  photos were doctored and ready, a throw down weapon was prepared (and was obviously taken into the TSBD without detection), IDs and back stories completed, media management schemes, etc., etc., and countless other details all for the Patsy. You have fail safe plans, undercover people on the ground, the ability to manipulate or at least influence the police and eventually the WC.

Who needs a paper bag and BW Frazier? Did the string pullers really think that LHO wouldn't be convicted in a court or in the media without BWF and the curtain rod story? IMO it was never a part of the plan to even let LHO live to have a day in court.

Also, there has been so much about LHO's movements after the shots. Has Roger Craig just been totally dismissed?

Greg Parker

Hello and welcome!

At least half of Jim Garrison's sheep dipping research is basically accurate, Maybe. But IMO, it had nothing to do with the assassination because it predates the time frame for the planning of it.  It could certainly be - and was - used as part of the frame post-assassination.

Ruth Paine was in place and active in the framing. Absolutely.

LHO placed and obviously some sort of leverage on his wife, Marina is endlessly fascinating. She told the truth initially, then before the Commission, said what they wanted to hear - but with other stuff they didn't want to hear (e.g. holding him in the bathroom so he couldn't go and shoot Nixon). So she is a complex nut to crack. Some of the evidence was almost certainly manufactured on the fly. I think for instance, the BYP didn't exist until Saturday. 

Who needs a paper bag and BW Frazier? Did the string pullers really think that LHO wouldn't be convicted in a court or in the media without BWF and the curtain rod story. Have to agree with Mick on this. The case depended a lot on witness evidence which was flawed by the loopholes left as escape clauses for the witness. So bag = evidence against Oswald and part of a lot of other evidence of similar nature. Wrong size bag = get out of jail free card for Frazier, but allows officials to shrug and say "well, he is simply mistaken on the size."

IMO it was never a part of the plan to even let LHO live to have a day in court. Agreed. Never no way it was going to court.

Also, there has been so much about LHO's movements after the shots. Has Roger Craig just been totally dismissed?  I don't think so. The car was there - others saw someone go to it and get in. If it was Oswald, them maybe Givens was the driver. But I tend to think it was someone else - maybe the real assassin - maybe no one of any importance in this. I have taken a shine to the idea that Lee left with Wes and they went straight to the TT. Oswald goes in while Wes ostensibly looks for a park. Instead, he makes a call to Linnie to say he's delivered the package to the theater. She advises him to get over to the Irving Clinic to visit their step-father. When the cops arrive at the Paines,  she hotfoots it down there and tells them about Oswald getting a lift that morning with a long suspicious looking package and sends them to find her brother at Parkland Hospital (wrong place) so she can get home and make sure there is nothing incriminating they can find if/when they search. Something like that, anyway...

RevPink89

Yes, indeed. I can see the members here are dedicated and have obviously taken great efforts to put together all this information. It is really incredible! I am convinced that the info in this thread was ethically obtained and all of the ROKC contributors are united in their pursuit to expose the truth. It is wonderful.

"The backyard photo's, the throw down, the bag, the curtain rods, leftist connections, the gun, the shells, the wallet, the wedding ring, the money on the dresser, the "escape" from the TSBD, the Tippit murder, the white jacket, the flawed line ups, and on and on it goes."

Yes, it does go on and on. But, excepting the curtain rod/package issue, at a glance, the other bogus evidence was executed in the master plan by people (with or without their knowledge of the grand scheme) who were connected to an organized body that, at least in the JFK murder, demanded loyalty and the organized body could and did carry out death penalties at worst or ostracism at best, for anyone who didn't tow the line. These were sure bets; people coerced, controlled and manipulated by all sorts of methods, who knew they would pay if they didn't play their part. I just haven't seen that kind of motive in regards to BWF.

For the conspirators, those active leading up to the shooting, the risk benefit ratio of counting on BWF on sticking to and carrying out his part of the plan (if it was so important), with the info at hand, wouldn't have warranted his enlistment IMO. That isn't to say it couldn't have been some type of survival/personal relationship/fear induced fabrication concocted after the fact. But, in that case, it (the rod/package line)wouldn't have been considered an integral part of the assassination (by calculation of its import in convincing those who needed to be convinced) by the conspirators beforehand because they would have had it taken care of by someone on the dangle and in the loop like the other evidence IMO.

I am keeping an open mind and I will keep researching. I appreciate all the hard work and dedication that has made threads like this possible. Thanks.

Greg Parker

The thing about the bag is Linnie making sure she was Linnie-on-the-spot to tell the cops about it and how suspicious it was - yet other evidence states that Wes had told her the night before that Oz came home to get curtain rods. That's a lie too, since the curtain rod story was fake. But what it shows is duplicity in putting the story together.

To believe there was no malice involved in the curtain rod story is to believe that Oz did in fact give that story to Wes and did walk up to the house carrying such a package.

Mick Purdy

Thanks for your response.

"I just haven't seen that kind of motive in regards to BWF."

Possibly true.You might not see a motive but you can smell the stench in regards to his behaviour
But if you read this thread very carefully you will note Frazier is caught lying many times on crucial aspects of Fridays events. Those lies are not innocent misrememberings or faulty recollections, they are purposeful and damning IMO. So what we are left with motive or not Wesley IMO helped frame Oswald.

I will only comment on one other aspect of your response and that is in regard to The bag and curtain rods.
A lot of commentary has been aired about fore knowledge and so forth regarding some of the key persons of interest in the past. What they knew or didn't know before the murder of JFK. And a lot has been said about the enormity or not of the conspiratorial minds both pre-assassination and post. Personally I subscribe to a low level small group of people being involved, that's just me.

But I do find it interesting, and it is important, that Linnie Mae Randle as reported by Adamcik told the authorities  at around 3.00 pm on the Friday the day of the assassination, that Oswald had carried a suspicious long paper package or carton into work that morning with her brother Wesley. So suspicious she felt compelled to alert police. This is as near as I can tell is proof, that she had foreknowledge of a plan to frame LHO. How could she know that the throwdown rifle was to be found along with a paper sack at 3.00 pm. Consider the bag was only found at around 3.00 pm. She had no way of knowing of such a bag. But here she was speaking about it to Adamcik at around 3.00 pm....I contend this is the clearest clue to believe that the sack and curtain rod story was planned in some way before the assassination......

Vinny

His latest story is that Captain Fritz of the Homicide division tried to make him sign a confession regarding the assassination. If true, why did he not mention it for 50 years?

Stan Dane wrote:Vinny

His latest story is that Captain Fritz of the Homicide division tried to make him sign a confession regarding the assassination. If true, why did he not mention it for 50 years?

Ed Ledoux

BWF did talk about the Fritz 'encounter' but how would this of happened...
I asked before if BWF was with the good reverend when he was asked to sign the confession?
Was Linnie or the Rev in the room when Fritz "tried to strike Buell"?
When was the polygraph test done, supposedly before or after this episode?
It would be good to know when BWF first told the signing and striking story, was it post Fritz's demise or other significant passing?
Again I think there is some poetic license being used by Wes about Fritz.

RevPink89

Thanks so much for the insightful responses. I am going to go back and hit the thread from the start and see what I have missed and think on it.

Jake
 
I’ve been struggling to tie together what I see as loose strings in the very amazing direction this whole thread has gone, as led by Mick. It’s only a result of the fascinating ideas presented here that I would have ever tried to formulate the following thoughts. It is all speculation on my part. I had to diagram it for myself so I will try and present it as a hypothetical logic string of numbered points:
 
1. BWF is a legitimate informant to the FBI working at TSBD reporting on someone (Molina?) prior to LHO working there. This fact is known to the conspirators. His being there in this role is not part of the conspiracy.
 
2. LHO is put in place working at TSBD by his handlers/the conspirators.
 
3. LHO is told to make contact with BWF to let him know they are “on the inside” together, but in a cover role that does not reveal to BWF everything that LHO knows, although LHO certainly doesn’t everything there is to know.
 
4. BWF’s handler is “informed” (instructed to cooperate) with the new player, LHO coming in from the conspirators’ side of things. It is presented as a legitimate op (LHO’s level of consciousness) that is actually disguising the sub op.
 
    a. The cover op, could be the setup of a Cuba group to implicate them in an assassination attempt. Just like is done with domestic terrorists today. Give them a fake bomb and see if they try to do it. Arrest them if they do. That kind of thing. It takes operatives on the ground working with the enemy. This is what BWF and LHO could have believed they were being enlisted into.
 
5. The BWF/LHO team has regular coordination meetings and perhaps other related activities in BWF’s car for several weeks before the big event as they process the various directives sent to them. They get to know each other. They bond and form a team.
 
6. The ostensible plan is to provide a weapon to an assassin who is being brought in by LHO’s marked associates (the “enemy”) to do the shooting. It is to be a rifle in a paper bag that will “actually” be missing its firing pin (or whatever), this is supposedly unknown to the supposed assassin. (He’ll be caught red handed of course.) This rifle is prepared and packaged by others and made available to LHO on Friday morning (dusted with nitrates perhaps?). All he has to do is pick it up from a drop place in the yard somewhere in the morning and put it in the car. The rest will be taken care of by others after the car is parked. He doesn’t even have to take it inside. (It doesn’t have to be the MC at all. It can be any fake gun. Shorter, lighter, anything. The actual MC throw down could already be in the TSBD by Friday morning)
 
    a. The curtain rod cover story is known and shared as such between LHO and BWF. That is what is told to Linnie Thursday night and that’s what she thinks it is when she sees it go into the car. (I know there are alternative scenarios here, but I need to keep going with this)
 
7. Now, according to the ostensible plan, when the fake assassin is caught with the fake, fake gun and arrested, then LHO immediately becomes “in danger for his life” from the Cuban associates he has duped and who are still at large. LHO must get out of town immediately. LHO and BWF both “know” this. In fact, just to make sure everyone, especially Oswald, is on board and stays on board with it, Oswald and his handlers visit Red Bird Airport and actually book a plane out of there for Friday. This is done for real in case Oswald does a double check with the charter service on his own later. They in fact are ready and waiting on Friday afternoon. This makes it all quite real for both LHO and for BWF. It is also the reason BWF must get LHO to the TT after, which he does. From there it’s off to Red Bird, but not really.
 
    a. When LHO and BWF on the TSBD steps hear and see what really happens, they are aghast. Something has gone terribly wrong. Linnie suddenly realizes that the bag was a gun. LHO and BWF suddenly realize that they are in hot water. LHO really wants to get out of town, but is really worried. So is BWF of course. Without going through every minute from after the TT, the bottom line is he’s told to stick to the curtain rod story and shut up about Oswald. If he doesn’t, he’ll be made a conspirator, here’s the confession to sign. Let him go down or else you go down with him. Two key things to remember: LHO carried the sack into the TSBD and he was not on the front steps during the shooting. BWF sticks with the story and shuts up about Oswald. When he sees what happens to Oswald that cinches it. He was never knowingly part of anything evil after all and staying alive sure beat the alternative.

Again, I know none of this as fact. I don’t represent it as fact. I look at it as a defense brief, or a novel, although I’m not a lawyer or a writer. I don’t know anything about BWF and whether or not it is even within the realm of possibility that any of this is true. It’s just a way to solve a puzzle as I see it presented in an such interesting way. Also, I would never entertain all this if it weren't for PM. I do think it's Oswald, although I could be wrong.

Stan Dane wrote:

Stan Dane wrote:Vinny

His latest story is that Captain Fritz of the Homicide division tried to make him sign a confession regarding the assassination. If true, why did he not mention it for 50 years?

Ed Ledoux

BWF did talk about the Fritz 'encounter' but how would this of happened...
I asked before if BWF was with the good reverend when he was asked to sign the confession?
Was Linnie or the Rev in the room when Fritz "tried to strike Buell"?
When was the polygraph test done, supposedly before or after this episode?
It would be good to know when BWF first told the signing and striking story, was it post Fritz's demise or other significant passing?
Again I think there is some poetic license being used by Wes about Fritz.

Mick Purdy

Agreed Ed,

I'm leaning toward the Reverend and Linnie being in plain sight....so I don't believe Wes's story of Fritz trying to take a hit on him or forcing him to sign a confession.

Just my 2 cents worth.

They were as far as I can tell back at City Hall to re write the affidavits.

It would be good to know when BWF first told the signing and striking story, was it post Fritz's demise or other significant passing?

It would be good to know I've felt for some time that wheeling Wes out for those media appearances from time to time along with his minders might have coincided with the demise of key people along the journey. Just a gut feel nothing more.

Greg Parker

Jake,

That works as a novel (in order to induce actual thought in the reader). As a defense brief it may also work by introducing reasonable doubt, It would have been interesting to see how that would have played out...

My own hunch is that BWF was brought in as a kind of Trojan horse to facilitate getting LHO in - and that it was LHO who was under the impression he was there to watch Molina. BWF came from Huntsville around the time that the Trade Mart was chosen (IRRC).

Stan Dane wrote:Greg Parker

Jake,

That works as a novel (in order to induce actual thought in the reader). As a defense brief it may also work by introducing reasonable doubt, It would have been interesting to see how that would have played out...

My own hunch is that BWF was brought in as a kind of Trojan horse to facilitate getting LHO in - and that it was LHO who was under the impression he was there to watch Molina. BWF came from Huntsville around the time that the Trade Mart was chosen (IRRC).

Jake

Thanks for the feedback. The parts are interchangeable and BWF as a Trojan horse is likely a better fit within the deeper context, which I don't have as good a handle on as you do. It provides the premise needed to explain the two operating as a team while advancing a well intentioned deception involving a gun described as curtain rods.

Vinny

I think he first mentioned it in 2013 in this interview.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?313792-1/lee-harvey-oswald-kennedy-assassination

Mick Purdy

Thanks Vinny:

I think you're right on this...from memory that's when I first heard the Fritz-striking story.

Greg wrote:
My own hunch is that BWF was brought in as a kind of Trojan horse to facilitate getting LHO in - and that it was LHO who was under the impression he was there to watch Molina. BWF came from Huntsville around the time that the Trade Mart was chosen (IRRC).

This make so much sense of Frazier's behaviour.

Mick Purdy

With all that's going on in the forum lately, it's timely to bullet point the issues regarding Buell and his activities on the Friday.
there is no way of knowing for certain if Buell actually drove Lee to Irving Thursday night as per the WC testimonies. Simply because as far as I'm aware we only have Linnie and Wes to confirm this. We can be reasonably certain that Oswald was at Irving Thursday night as per Schneider's interview.

iMO we can dismiss both Linnie and Buells account of Lee arriving at the house Friday morning with a sack in hand.
we can also forget their version of events regarding the curtain rods from the the Thursday evening too. We know that nobody else saw Lee that morning with a sack in hand other than Buell and Linnie. We know as far as the authorities are concerned that nobody else saw Lee walk the streets with it, saw him, and that no one saw him walk through the the car parking lot with or without a sack other than Wes. Absolutely nobody other than Wes said they saw Lee in Wes' car. We know that shields saw Wes on his own in the parking lot. We know wes lied to shields about dropping Lee off at the entrance. Via givens statement we also know Lee was sitting in the DM at around 7:45 am reading. As far as we can tell Wes was still driving to work at this time.

IMO we have Carolyn Arnold placing Lee somewhere close by to the front steps at around 12:20-ish. With Sean's work we know Lee is on the steps with Buell at around 12:31. The Darnell IMO proves beyond doubt when coupled with the research of the steps that Buell and Lee were on the steps together at precisely the moment when the shots were fired. To follow this to its conclusion I have speculated that Buell and Lee departed the TSBD together. I speculate that Wes drove Lee to the theatre. It's more than possible that if Lee was taking photos on the steps then it's completely logical that the camera was in Wes's car and handed back to Ruth later. We know that Linnie probably met with Buell after the assassination. We know Linnie divulges the suspicions about Lee and the package to the cops at 3:00-ish We know Buell is apprehended at the hospital at around 5:30-ish. We we know he was interrogated twice, on the Friday and released unconditionally early hours of Saturday morning, never to be questioned again.

There's so much more to add but it's a start.

RevPink89

Thanks for all the great ideas and insight Mr. Purdy.

I still think Roger Craig saw Oswald get into a car. His recounting of the meeting in Fritz's outer office sounds pretty legit. If there is evidence that this was a whopper of a lie, I haven't seen it. I would love to see it if you know of it off the top of your head.

In Craig's manuscript he refutes  a lot of the content of the Warren report in regards to his testimony. I recall that he has specifically addressed a statement that was said to have been uttered by Oswald in his presence, "Everyone will know who I am, now," as having been altered to, "NOW, everyone will know who I am!". Craig didn't think Oswald was a lone gunman and stuck to his guns to the tragic end. Also, the bit about Craig saying that Oswald was indeed the man he saw getting into a car and then Oswald saying he got into a green station wagon and Craig saying specifically that he had just said, "car" and that Oswald said that it was Ruth Paine's car and to leave her out of this. Where, why and how would Roger Craig come up with this stuff? I can't imagine. That doesn't mean he isn't lying, but what for?

It would really be wild if Oswald had interjected the green station wagon and Ruth Paine angle and Craig subsequently reordered his memory of the car on the day of the shooting.

Stan Dane wrote:Vinny

I think he first mentioned it in 2013 in this interview.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?313792-1/lee-harvey-oswald-kennedy-assassination

Ed Ledoux

I recall it as earlier than 2013. 

I'm looking but easily found it in a 2012 forum and referencing an earlier video

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19005

Its in a 2011-2012 video just need to find it.

I feel like that story was floated out there to see if BWF could use it for the 50th anniversary. I doubt he said anything like this before 2011. BWF needed something new to reveal and this could not be challenged as WF was dead and no one else was in the room. (Where was Linnie Mae and the good reverend? With BWF that's where!)

Steely Dan

Just wondering if there was two reasons for the disappearing patrons list from the TT. Firstly, the DPD would not want reporters picking up conflicting stories regarding the arrest. Secondly, what if the tickets sold tally did not match the number of patrons inside. This would be because LHO bought 2 but Wes never entered. It may explain Postal's later crying fit, because she well remembered the guy who bought 2 tickets but entered alone, telling her his friend would be in shortly. I think it's a distinct possibility that 2 tickets were found on LHO, which, thanks to the Bledsoe's phone call, became a single bus transfer.

Terry Martin

Two ticket stubs become one bus transfer. Brilliant, Steely!

Now if we can only apply this sort of logic to the remainder of the case, we mind be able to remove those other items that "seem" to come in pairs... doppelgangers and all.

And now there seems to be some confusion about how Lee got to the theater. Not the bus - taxi - Beckley scenario but the ride with either Craig's dark-complected driver or in Frazier's sedan. I thought this had been addressed earlier (and I think Craig witnessed Crafard or someone else ??) but I cannot locate it.

Since it would appear that Oswald left the rear of the TSBD, he probably continued that same direction... to Frazier's car. Buell taking him to the theater seems to make more sense IMO.

Stan Dane

As well as Oswald leaving his Imperial Reflex in the back seat of Buell's Chevy.

Stan Dane wrote:Terry Martin

Two ticket stubs become one bus transfer. Brilliant, Steely!

Now if we can only apply this sort of logic to the remainder of the case, we mind be able to remove those other items that "seem" to come in pairs... doppelgangers and all.

And now there seems to be some confusion about how Lee got to the theater. Not the bus - taxi - Beckley scenario but the ride with either Craig's dark-complected driver or in Frazier's sedan. I thought this had been addressed earlier (and I think Craig witnessed Crafard or someone else ??) but I cannot locate it.

Since it would appear that Oswald left the rear of the TSBD, he probably continued that same direction... to Frazier's car. Buell taking him to the theater seems to make more sense IMO.

Ed Ledoux

Excellent! Yes good show Steely!
The theater tickets would of course have to vanish.
Can't have any evidence contradicting Brewer.

Lee exits rear of TSBD goes and waits for BWF by the car.
Or Lee exits rear of TSBD, Wes was outside on the dock etc watching the action in the train track area, and he was not in the fucking basement, alone.
He only says he went to the basement so he wouldn't have to say where he really was, driving Lee to Oak Cliff and the TT.
BWF drops off Lee. Lee was going to meet up with Marina and Ruth at the shoe store after work so he goes in to the movie to kill time.
Perhaps he phoned and spoke to Ruth. Ruth phones the police and drops the dime on where Lee is. 
IDK.
Cops break up the movie show, Wes slips out or wasn't in the TT yet when its raided.
Does BWF go back to the TSBD where he winds up on the second page of the roll call list, not on the page with the other warehousemen.
What ID did BWF show? A Huntsville addressed drivers license?

Speculation, yes, but possibilities need explored.