Jack Edwin Dougherty

Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

Warren Commission reservations concerning Jack Dougherty

March 12, 1964, a memo was sent from Warren Commission lawyer Melvin A. Eisenberg to J. Lee Rankin. Eisenberg set out his suspicions concerning the testimony and actions of Jack Edwin Dougherty who was employed as an order-filler at the Texas School Book Depository.

The memo was sent approximately one month before Dougherty was due to give his sworn testimony concerning events in the Texas School Book Depository on November 22, 1963 in front of the Warren Commission.

Although TSBD superintendent Roy Sansom Truly tried to paint a picture of Jack Dougherty as being mentally retarded I believe the facts claim otherwise. He finished High School in Dallas. He was accepted into the Army where he served for just over two years. He was also quite articulate according to his Warren Commission testimony even though he did seem to make errors concerning times and dates.

The “retardation” is simply a cover story.

Here is the memo:

MEMORANDUM

TO: J Lee Rankin

FROM: Melvin A. Eisenberg

SUBJECT: Identity of Assassin

I think a thorough investigation should he run on a TSBD employee named Jack Dougherty.

On the morning of November 22, Dougherty was part of a crew laying a new plywood floor on the sixth floor of the TSBD. This crew consisted of Danny Arce, Dougherty, Charles Givens, James ("Junior") Jarman, Billy Lovelady, and Bonnie Rae Williams, all regular employees in the TSBD shipping and. order-filling department.

They were apparently working under the direction of William Shelley the senior employee in that department.

In a written statement to the Dallas police on November 22,

Dougherty gave the following story: On the morning of November 22, he had worked [with the floor laying crew] on the sixth floor until 12:00, when he went down to the first floor to eat his lunch. After lunch he returned to work [on the sixth floor] and then went down to the fifth floor "to get some stock," when he heard a shot, which sounded as if it had come from inside the building. He then went down to the first floor and asked Eddie Piper, the TSBD Janitor, whether Piper had heard anything. Piper said yes, he had heard 3 shots. Dougherty then returned to the sixth floor. (81B.20)[

SA Blake of the Secret Service, who interviewed Dougherty between December 2 and December 5, reported that "when Dougherty was interviewed he seemed to be very confused about time and places. Mr. Truly [Roy S. Truly, Superintendent of the TSBD] finished the information that although Dougherty is a very good employee and a hard worker, he is mentally retarded and has difficulty in remembering facts, such as dates, times, places, and. has-been especially confused since the assassination." (SS 1*91 at p. 7)

I am suspicious of Dougherty for several reasons.

(1) He has no alibi. Of the six employees on the floor laying crew, Givens claims to have been with a friend at a parking lot several blocks away when the assassination took place; Williams and Jarman were together on the fifth floor with another employee named Norman; Lovelady was standing outside the TSBD (and was photographed); and Arce claims to have been standing outside the TSBD.

Dougherty was inside the TSBD and all alone.

(2) His story is very thin.

(a) It does not make sense that Dougherty, one of a six-man floor laying crew, should begin working before the other five members returned from lunch.

(b) It is questionable that Dougherty would have had to go to the fifth floor to get "stock" in connection with the floor-laying project.

1/ Dougherty’s father told the FBI that Dougherty had received a medical discharge from the U.S. Army and had considerable difficulty coordinating his mental facilities and his speech. (5.367)

(c) Jarman, Norman, and Williams, who were at the southeast window of the fifth floor at the time of the assassination, and ran from there to the southwest window, make absolutely no mention of having seen Dougherty on the fifth floor.

(d) It does not seem credible that Dougherty would have gone down to the first floor, found out that the three shots had been fired, and then casually returned to the sixth floor.

(e) No report indicates that Dougherty or anyone else was on the sixth floor when that floor was searched

(f) Since Dougherty heard the shots on the fifth floor, and since the shots were fired at approximately 12:32, Dougherty must have returned to the sixth floor, allegedly to go back to work, before 12:30. This seems odd, since the TSBD lunch period extends until 12:45.

(3) If Dougherty is “mentally retarded,” it may explain some of the inconsistencies in his story. On the other hand, the “mental retardation” may be an emotional problem, which would itself be grounds for suspicion. In this connection, I find disturbing Truly’s comment that Dougherty “has been especially confused since the assassination.”

cc: Ball

Belin

Craig

Adams

Specter

Redlich

A couple of questions jump out of this:

None of these “concerns” or “suspicions” were explicitly discussed with Dougherty when he was on the stand and from the existing record they weren’t discussed with him by the FBI or the Dallas Police after Eisenberg had raised them.
Eisenberg claims the time of the shots was 12:32PM. This is the time also laid out in other documents relating to the assassination investigation. So what time was Kennedy actually shot?

Wed 06 Nov 2013, 8:40 pm

Included in the Warren de Brueys report of December 2, 1963, is a list of travelers to Mexico & Latin America in September 1963 departing by air from New Orleans. The FBI were searching passenger lists to ascertain whether Lee Harvey Oswald was onboard any flights that departed NOLA to Mexico City on or about September 17, 18, or 19.

The lists are contained CD75 pages 600-615.

On pages 604-606 is a manifest of names from Eastern Airlines daily 7:55am flight to Mexico City.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=608

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=610

On the September 18 list is a James E. Dougherty Jr. who I am mildly interested in.

Wed 06 Nov 2013, 9:49 pm

Lee Farley wrote:Included in the Warren de Brueys report of December 2, 1963, is a list of travelers to Mexico & Latin America in September 1963 departing by air from New Orleans. The FBI were searching passenger lists to ascertain whether Lee Harvey Oswald was onboard any flights that departed NOLA to Mexico City on or about September 17, 18, or 19.

The lists are contained CD75 pages 600-615.

On pages 604-606 is a manifest of names from Eastern Airlines daily 7:55am flight to Mexico City.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=608

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=610

On the September 18 list is a James E. Dougherty Jr. who I am mildly interested in.

Wed 06 Nov 2013, 9:58 pm

Stan Dane wrote:

Tom Scully wrote:Stan,

An "A" to you for effort. Dougherty told the WC he "left" high school in 1937, but he did not
say he graduated/ He also stated was 40 years of age on that date in 1964. He would have
been 14 years old in a 1937 yearbook if he was presented as a member of the senior class.

Page 4 of the thread, started by Greg, probably includes all the highlights of Dougherty's background. He and his parents share a gravestone and it displays his birth year as 1923.:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18068&page=4 This inforrmation is also available at findagrave.com .

Thanks for the calibration Tom.

Checking the links you provided, I see that Jack's father was Redfern C. Dougherty. That name rang a bell, so I went back to the 1937 Yearbook and I found a Redfern C. Dougherty Jr. listed on the very next page. Wouldn't be surprised if this was Jack's older brother.

Stan,

I believe Jack and Redfern's father was not R. C. Dougherty. That is how the FBI wrote his name during the affidavit that Jack gave on 12/19/63 when Jack's father was allegedly present with him but according to the following link the father's actual name was R. O. Dougherty.

In addition to Jack's brother Redfern C. Dougherty, there was a sister called Dorothy Ladeta Dougherty who was born in 1926 according to the Texas Legislative records:

Name Birthdate Sex Mother Father County
==============================================================================================================================
Dougherty, Dorothy Ladeta 10-20-1926 F Mary Kriese R O Dougherty Dallas

http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/vitals/births/1926/dallb26c.txt

Was it Jack's father with him during the FBI interview or was it his brother? Don't know. But I'm always wary when names are spelt wrong in certain documents. If it was the father - how did they get the middle initial wrong?

Wed 06 Nov 2013, 10:07 pm

http://www.fold3.com/document/18172663/

Tom, do you have access to a better copy of this - - or better eyes?

Lee

Thu 07 Nov 2013, 4:27 am

Lee Farley wrote:Stan,

I believe Jack and Redfern's father was not R. C. Dougherty. That is how the FBI wrote his name during the affidavit that Jack gave on 12/19/63 when Jack's father was allegedly present with him but according to the following link the father's actual name was R. O. Dougherty.

In addition to Jack's brother Redfern C. Dougherty, there was a sister called Dorothy Ladeta Dougherty who was born in 1926 according to the Texas Legislative records:

Name Birthdate Sex Mother Father County
==============================================================================================================================
Dougherty, Dorothy Ladeta 10-20-1926 F Mary Kriese R O Dougherty Dallas

http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/vitals/births/1926/dallb26c.txt

Was it Jack's father with him during the FBI interview or was it his brother? Don't know. But I'm always wary when names are spelt wrong in certain documents. If it was the father - how did they get the middle initial wrong?

Lee:

If he was Redfern O, then his family spelled his name wrong on his tombstone in Calvary Hill Cemetery, Dallas TX:

Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 4 Doughe11

But who knows. Spelling anomalies seem to show up a lot with this family.

PS: My father was born in 1920, but his birth certificate shows a 1 typed through the 0 (192Φ). My grandmother shrugged it off saying it was 1920 and the birth order/certificates of his siblings showed this had to be true. It never became an issue for the remainder of his life, but it just goes to show that even official documents can get screwed up.

Thu 07 Nov 2013, 5:17 am

Stan Dane wrote:

Lee Farley wrote:Stan,

I believe Jack and Redfern's father was not R. C. Dougherty. That is how the FBI wrote his name during the affidavit that Jack gave on 12/19/63 when Jack's father was allegedly present with him but according to the following link the father's actual name was R. O. Dougherty.

In addition to Jack's brother Redfern C. Dougherty, there was a sister called Dorothy Ladeta Dougherty who was born in 1926 according to the Texas Legislative records:

Name Birthdate Sex Mother Father County
==============================================================================================================================
Dougherty, Dorothy Ladeta 10-20-1926 F Mary Kriese R O Dougherty Dallas

http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/vitals/births/1926/dallb26c.txt

Was it Jack's father with him during the FBI interview or was it his brother? Don't know. But I'm always wary when names are spelt wrong in certain documents. If it was the father - how did they get the middle initial wrong?

Lee:

If he was Redfern O, then his family spelled his name wrong on his tombstone in Calvary Hill Cemetery, Dallas TX:

But who knows. Spelling anomalies seem to show up a lot with this family.

PS: My father was born in 1920, but his birth certificate shows a 1 typed through the 0 (192Φ). My grandmother shrugged it off saying it was 1920 and the birth order/certificates of his siblings showed this had to be true. It never became an issue for the remainder of his life, but it just goes to show that even official documents can get screwed up.

Very true, Stan.

Trying hard to find anomalies often results in overlooking simple stuff that is staring you in the face. I've looked at the picture of that tombstone 1000 times.

If Shelley and Truly have backgrounds that are suspect at best then I still level suspicion at Jack E. Dougherty and his background given he worked with the other two for a long, long time. I think I'm trying too hard trying to find any clue that may shine some light on this so may take a break from old Jack but the photos of Redfern Dougherty and Jack Daugherty from the yearbook that Tom posted have me very perplexed.

One day all of this will fall into place for us.

Fri 08 Nov 2013, 2:40 pm

Lee Farley wrote:http://www.fold3.com/document/18172663/

Tom, do you have access to a better copy of this - - or better eyes?

Lee

Lee,

An apology for several delayed responses. Daughter Dorothy's birth cert. image.:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UxD6g5icVTY/UnwZ9RtvWeI/AAAAAAAABhI/axnINEk4Tu8/s1024/DorothyBorthCert.jpg
All things considered, I think it is an elaborate "C" and not an "O". BTW, I had better tread carefully here. The relation I telephoned
recently was one of Dorothy's sons.

Here is an image of Redfern's 1978 Death Cert.:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OawDxge6f7Y/UnwaCBVb45I/AAAAAAAABhQ/mRu2iY9vgI0/s912/RedfernCdeathCert.jpg
The "C" is type written.

As far as Dudley Tarlton Dougherty, I embarked on a search and immediately came upon his sister's obit.:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/14/classified/paid-notice-deaths-king-may-tarlton-topsy-dougherty.html
...quickly leading to her daughter's obit.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9402E6DD123AF932A25750C0A96F9C8B63
Her daughter, Dudley's niece, was married to a guy from St. Louis and they lived on Juptier Island. His name is Peter S. Pauley, so that
was intriguing as well. The Bushes and Pryror Reeds are inseparable. Permelia Pryor Reed's father, Samuel was from St. Louis. She personally signed off on all prospective buyers of Jupiter Island property. Pauley was not related to Edwin, but to an architect, Walter E Pauley, who partnered with Charles Eames. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_and_Ray_Eames

It concerns me how little control I actually have in avoiding tangents. I will get back to Dudley... but Margeson and other Rochester natives are on the plate.

http://www.adst.org/OH%20TOCs/Wrampelmeier,%20Brooks.toc.pdf
BROOKS WRAMPELMEIER
Interviewed by: Charles Stuart Kennedy
Initial interview date: March 22, 2000

........When the Kennedy Administration
came in, Mill's pro forma resignation was accepted with no other explanation. There
wasn’t any “we have something else in mind for you.” It was just “please go in and get
agrément for this fellow Macomber,” who had been the Assistant Secretary for
Congressional Affair in the Eisenhower Administration. President Kennedy apparently
liked Macomber but wanted to replace him with a congressman from Arkansas who had
lost his seat. Mills was later offered the embassy in Uruguay but he declined and retired
from the Foreign Service.
Q: Well, Macomber had also been a favorite of Rooney’s and Rooney was the
appropriations man for the department of state.
WRAMPELMEIER: Well, Macomber was brought into State by John Foster Dulles. His
family and the Dulles family came from Rochester. Macomber came out in January 1961,
a bachelor just 40 years old. Mills was in his sixties. I think the idea was that having an
ambassador in Amman closer in age to King Hussein would be an advantage. The British
also sent a relatively young ambassador named John Henniker-Major. So you had two
relatively young ambassadors with a king who was at that time in his late 20s or early
30s......

Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:48 pm

Sorry for interrupting this genealogy subtopic, but I got another question regarding JED.

He (JED) told to WC that about the time of assassination he went to the 6th floor `to get some stock`. Now I wonder:
1. Did WC try to specify, what kind of `stock` and why JED was looking for? Why `geting some stock` was so urgent?
2. Maybe this is especially my problem since English is only my third language, but is it so that words `some stock` sound very inconcrete?

Mon 25 Nov 2013, 8:29 am

greg parker wrote:Tom's find is still important.

Brother Redfern had 3 years in ROTC's Crack Company and attended ROTC Camp Dallas 2 years running.

Apart from being a Dallas ROTC program, I have no idea what "Crack Company" was, but I don't think it was a secret society of coke snorters. Camp Dallas was a month long ROTC camp.

During the Cold War, the ROTC trained both future Military Intelligence Officers and Army Security Agency officers. A notable example is Ed Lansdale.

Jack does not appear to have been in the ROTC - but did spend his army stint at an Indiana base where all the state-of-the-art German aircraft were brought for reverse engineering.

In 1972, Redfern Dougherty, Jr was made Manager of General Accounting for the Transcontinental Gas Pipe Line Corp based in Houston. http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/3443065

Mr. Tom Scully:

Could you please use your genealogy skills and tools to check into the background of Redfern C. Dougherty Jr., brother of Jack E. Dougherty? What he did, where he lived and worked, who he associated with, etc.?

I can't shake the likeness of the guy in the William Allen "Bottle Photo" to these early pictures of Redfern Jr.

Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 4 Three_10

If this guy was Redfern Jr., what was he doing in front of the TSBD building right after the assassination?

It may well be another fruitless tangent, but who knows.

Mon 03 Mar 2014, 2:00 am

I recently took the opportunity to e-mail Melvin Eisenberg, regarding his memo "Identity of Assassin", which I included as an attachment. I just received a reply, which said essentially that too much time has passed for him to remember what was on his mind in 1964. He doesn't even remember Jack Dougherty. He's 79 and still teaches law and so I had hopes he'd have memories of serving on the Warren Commission.

My questions were:

- Do you recall why you titled the memo so?

- The memo outlined your suspicions of TSBD employee Jack Dougherty. Yet when Dougherty was deposed by Joseph Ball a month later, not a single one of your concerns were addressed. What was your reaction?

- Dougherty admitted in his November 22 police affidavit, and in his testimony, that he was on the sixth floor shortly before the assassination. Yet he was never once asked what he witnessed up there. Any comments?

- Roy Truly described Dougherty as "mentally retarded" during his Secret Service interview, adding that he "has been especially confused since the assassination." It may interest you (it came out in 2011) that Truly also described a black employee near the base of the elevators as "slightly retarded" when he ran to the shaft with motorcycle officer Marrion Baker. Doesn't it seem likely that Truly's "retarded" characterization was his standard method of deflecting inquiries to employees who may have been involved in the assassination?

- Despite Truly yelling up the shaft and ringing the service bell, the freight elevators remained hung up on the 5th floor. Yet when Truly and Baker had climbed the stairs to the 5th, they found that the west freight elevator was no longer there. And it wasn't until Dougherty's April 8th testimony- 4 1/2 months after the assassination- that he finally admitted, with some difficulty, that he was the one who had brought the west freight elevator downstairs. Did you have any suspicions as to his delay in coming forward with this information, i.e. that he was hoping to keep it a secret?

Fri 29 Aug 2014, 6:55 pm

Is anyone a member of Ancestry.com or have access to, or know of other sites that might have Jack's enlistment papers showing height, weight etc?

Fri 29 Aug 2014, 10:42 pm

Greg,

from Ancestry.com:
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=Jack+Edwin&gsln=Dougherty&msbdy=1923&msbpn__ftp=Dallas%2c+Dallas%2c+Texas%2c+USA&msbpn=76758&msbpn_PInfo=8-|0|1652393|0|2|3249|46|0|815|76758|0|&uidh=pf6&msbdd=12&msbdm=8&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=4652003&recoff=6+7+8&db=WWIIenlist&indiv=1&ml_rpos=7

His enlistment papers in 1942 show a height of 6' 2" and weight 165.
This was at age 19.

Enlistment date given as October 24, 1942 into the Air Corps.

Fri 29 Aug 2014, 10:53 pm

Richard Hocking wrote:Greg,

from Ancestry.com:
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=Jack+Edwin&gsln=Dougherty&msbdy=1923&msbpn__ftp=Dallas%2c+Dallas%2c+Texas%2c+USA&msbpn=76758&msbpn_PInfo=8-|0|1652393|0|2|3249|46|0|815|76758|0|&uidh=pf6&msbdd=12&msbdm=8&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=4652003&recoff=6+7+8&db=WWIIenlist&indiv=1&ml_rpos=7

His enlistment papers in 1942 show a height of 6' 2" and weight 165.
This was at age 19.

Enlistment date given as October 24, 1942 into the Air Corps.

Thank you Richard!

That is definitely the same guy because Dougherty gave that same enlistment date in his testimony.

So in 1942, he was 6' 2" and weighed 165 and was 19 yo.

In 1963, Officer Baker described an encounter with someone the same weight but 5 inches shorter and 10 years younger.

Which puts me back to looking at Baker encountering the real shooter...

Fri 29 Aug 2014, 11:26 pm

Agreed. I think its safe to say Jack put on a few pounds over the next 21 years.

BTW, it looks like the ancestry link above may not be working.

Below is a link to the actual record in the National Archives:

http://aad.archives.gov/aad/record-detail.jsp?dt=893&mtch=15&cat=all&tf=F&sc=24994,24995,24996,24998,24997,24993,24981,24983&q=Jack+Dougherty&bc=sl,fd&txt_24995=Jack+Dougherty&op_24995=0&nfo_24995=V,24,1900&rpp=10&pg=2&rid=1616146&rlst=6858482,7902841,7923741,8010564,1616146

Hope this one works.

Sat 30 Aug 2014, 4:49 am

So in 1942, he was 6' 2" and weighed 165 and was 19 yo.
In 1963, Officer Baker described an encounter with someone the same weight but 5 inches shorter and 10 years younger.
Which puts me back to looking at Baker encountering the real shooter...

Right, the only two things I'm sure of is that Baker was a more or less honest copper (he'd lie if bosses told him too but he wouldn't falsely ID a suspect in a lineup) and that LHO was at the front door. So one of three things is going on here...
1. Truly lied (on behalf of conspiracy) about 4th floor man being an employee or
2. Baker lied (at direction of police brass) about 4th floor man description and/or location (so could be Dougherty on the 4th or West on the 1st or a fake Secret Service agent anywhere in between). Or
3. Sean is right and Baker saw no one (after LHO at the door). Whether Baker took the back stairs, front stairs or elevator, alone or with Truly, would be irrelevant. There was nothing to see and Baker and Truly were fed their lines at the police station for their respective affidavits.

Sat 30 Aug 2014, 6:13 am

Richard Hocking wrote:Agreed. I think its safe to say Jack put on a few pounds over the next 21 years.

BTW, it looks like the ancestry link above may not be working.

Below is a link to the actual record in the National Archives:

http://aad.archives.gov/aad/record-detail.jsp?dt=893&mtch=15&cat=all&tf=F&sc=24994,24995,24996,24998,24997,24993,24981,24983&q=Jack+Dougherty&bc=sl,fd&txt_24995=Jack+Dougherty&op_24995=0&nfo_24995=V,24,1900&rpp=10&pg=2&rid=1616146&rlst=6858482,7902841,7923741,8010564,1616146

Hope this one works.

It does, but it does not seem to include the all-important vital stats.

Sat 30 Aug 2014, 12:51 pm

1. My pick
2. I think Richard Gilbride made a good case that there was insufficient time/opportunity for this
3. This is the same as your point 2 except with a switch of "someone" there to 'no one" there. The rebuttal is also the same. No time/opportunity for being briefed and fed false descriptions

Sat 30 Aug 2014, 10:55 pm

National Archives site is down for maintenance over the Labor Day weekend.

Here is a screenshot of the record from Ancestry.

[img]https://s1289.photobucket.com/user/richardh11/media/JackDoughertyMilitaryService_zpsc2618233.jpg.html?filters[user]=137721714&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0[/img]

Sat 30 Aug 2014, 11:26 pm

Richard Hocking wrote:National Archives site is down for maintenance over the Labor Day weekend.

Here is a screenshot of the record from Ancestry.

[img]https://s1289.photobucket.com/user/richardh11/media/JackDoughertyMilitaryService_zpsc2618233.jpg.html?filters[user]=137721714&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0[/img]

Thanks again, Richard. Appreciate you digging this out.

Wed 21 Feb 2018, 5:48 pm

http://wwii-army.mooseroots.com/l/1782827/Jack-E-Dougherty

Thu 22 Feb 2018, 5:35 pm

Martin Shakelford should do some research.
He gave Denis Morissette the wrong man...

Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 4 W5nsq-sk

Not our Jack as Greg Parker said back in 2013.
https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t176p45-jack-edwin-dougherty

Cheers, Ed

Wed 05 Sep 2018, 1:09 am

FBI Statement Jack Edwin Daugherty Nov 22nd.
It is very very basic.
Thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

Wed 05 Sep 2018, 8:34 am

Thanks Barto, def written for him. Who gets their own middle name wrong Laughing

Wed 05 Sep 2018, 11:59 pm

Agreed Mick. Looks like it was written by James Anderson, as the letter matches his writing. Look a the way both heir names are written in the letter.

Thu 06 Sep 2018, 9:35 am

Which may or may not be protocol when taking statements, but seriously the 2 "again" mistakes, all related to timing of the sightings of Lee Oswald.
Please. "I heard a loud explosion" -really?

Agreed Ray, looks like James Anderson's handwriting to me

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