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Brian says...Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:33 pmEd.Ledoux
last drinks before the bar closesSat 30 Dec 2023, 2:46 pmTony Krome
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The Gray Jacket

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Fri 22 Mar 2013, 8:13 am
First topic message reminder :

So as not to derail the Hill thread where the jacket has been mentioned, I thought I'd start a separate thread for it.

We'll start with Rankin showing Marina various exhibits of Oswald'd clothing:

Mr. RANKIN. 162?
Mrs. OSWALD. That is Lee's--an old shirt.
Mr. RANKIN. Sort of a jacket?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.


Ok. so 162 is described here as "an old shirt" which Rankin seems to prefer calling a jacket.

When was Oswald wearing this old shirt kind of jacket?

Apparently when he arrived at the Paine residence on Thursday.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall any of these clothes that your husband was wearing when he came home Thursday night, November 21, 1963?
Mrs. OSWALD. On Thursday I think he wore this shirt.
Mr. RANKIN. Is that Exhibit 150?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember anything else he was wearing at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. It seems he had that jacket, also.
Mr. RANKIN. Exhibit 162?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.


More details about 162 can be found in the testimony of Linnie Mae Randle:

Mr. BALL. Here is another jacket which is a gray jacket, does this look anything like the jacket he had on?
Mrs. RANDLE. No, sir; I remember its being gray.
Mr. BALL. Well, this one is gray but of these two the jacket I last showed you is Commission Exhibit No. 162, and this blue gray is 163, now if you had to choose between these two?
Mrs. RANDLE. I would choose the dark one.
Mr. BALL. You would choose the dark one?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Which is 163, as being more similar to the jacket he had?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; that I remember. But I, you know, didn't pay an awful lot of attention to his jacket. I remember his T-shirt and the shirt more so than I do the jacket.
Mr. BALL. The witness just stated that 163 which is the gray-blue is similar to the jacket he had on. 162, the light gray jacket was not.


Questions:

From Randle's testimony, it would appear that 162 was the light gray jacket allegedly found at the Tippit site. If so, how could Marina possibly describe it as an "old shirt"?

If Oswald had worn 162 to the Paine residence Thursday night and left the next morning wearing the blue-gray jacket (163), which was supposedly found at the TSBD about a week or two after the assassination  - how does 162 end up at the boarding house for Oswald to put on prior to his alleged rendezvous with Tippit?


Last edited by greg parker on Sat 14 Sep 2013, 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Sun 08 Sep 2013, 6:18 am
After reading through Sean’s post on the Ed forum, it is readily apparent that I was wrong to assume Fred and Frankie Kaiser were the same person. This is the DPD report by W.S Biggio on Fred Kaiser:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/38/3837-001.gif

As Sean posted from page 85 of No more Silence, the interview with Roy E. Lewis contains the following information:

“As I recall, Eddie Piper was the oldest worker there [at the TSBD]. He was black as were Troy West, Hank Norman, Junior Jarman, Charles Givens, Bonnie Ray Williams, and myself. The white workers included: Jack Dougherty, Billy Lovelady, two brothers named Frank and Fred, Wesley Frazier, and Lee Harvey Oswald.”

I will be writing up an addendum to the Jacket essay, after which I will ask Jim Di and Debra Conway to put it into the essay. However, this doesn’t, IMO, change the idea that Kaiser was an FBI informant working inside the TSBD; nor do I think it weakens my argument that Oswald went to the TSBD wearing a flannel-wool looking Jacket.

I also find it interesting that Fred quit the TSBD one day before the assassination, and Frankie was absent from the TSBD on the day of the assassination, having to allegedly attend the CIA affiliated Baylor medical centre for an abscessed tooth.
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Sun 17 Nov 2013, 3:58 am
Some clothing information, FWIW:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=9945&relPageId=195
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Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:44 pm
Hasan,

Splendid to see your following up where others have been but with new eyes comes new discoveries.

"Some" jacket jousts:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8916

Mahalo, Ed
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Mon 18 Nov 2013, 12:36 am
Ed. Ledoux wrote:Hasan,

Splendid to see your following up where others have been but with new eyes comes new discoveries.

"Some" jacket jousts:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8916

Mahalo, Ed
Thanks, Ed.
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Sat 23 May 2020, 1:19 am
From the Harry Livingstone archive. Thanks to uncle Malcolm.


The Gray Jacket - Page 3 April108

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Mon 25 May 2020, 5:41 am
At this point in time, I think that Oswald was wearing a flannel-wool looking jacket to the TSBD, and that it was then substituted by Ce163. The question is: Why did it take until December the 16th for the dark gray blue jacket to be "found"?


How does Frankie Kaiser know that is Oswald's blue gray jacket.... did it have his wallet in it? Does he notice Lee's attire or specific recollections of Lee wearing it?
If so what are they.

Why doesnt the blue jacket have laundry tags if the grey one does and they are both worn after laundering?"
Was that Medium grey jacket worn after it was laundered.
Note  Lee wore size small jackets.
With Malice gives the following on p. 279: "A blue jacket, identified by Marina as Lee's, was discovered in the first floor lunchroom of the Texas School Book Depository, nearly a month after the assassination. Indeed, the FBI lab found "several brown head hairs" on the jacket that microscopically matched hair samples taken from Oswald."


Head hairs, on a jacket found laying on a shelf behind the booth or seat where Oswald eats.
Gee that's a no brainer.
We should study that report more closely.
Where in the jacket were the hairs found, ie inside or simply on the jacket.
Were other hairs found not matching Lee's hair?


A person runs into Beckley grabs a pistol and a wallet, meanwhile the persons ride a police car honks to hurry the person up, and he runs out waits by the curb for the car to circle around and pick him up. The car races to the Tippit murder scene:

"It hadn't been very long when Westbrook looked up and saw me and called me over. He had this wallet in his hand. Now, I don't know where he found it, but he had the wallet in his hand. I presumed they had found it on or near Tippit. Westbrook asked me, 'Do you know who Lee Harvey Oswald is?' And, 'Do you know who Alek Hidell is?' And I said , 'No, I never heard of them'."
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Tue 26 May 2020, 7:35 am
Hasan Yusuf wrote:Greg,

Frankie Kaiser, the same man who discovered oswald's clip board, also "discovered" the dark blue jacket on 16/12/63 I believe. It simply defies belief that the same man discovered both items, and that it took over three weeks for him to supposedly find the jacket. I have a strong feeling Oswald went to the Theatre with the dark blue jacket. I hope to explain later on why I feel that way. FWIW: Kaiser might of been some sort of an FBI snitch.
Hasan,

I don't have my citations at hand at the moment, but Kaiser also applied for a job at the same Alright Parking Garage that Oswald supposedly did.

Steve Thomas
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Tue 26 May 2020, 9:52 am
Ed. Ledoux wrote:At this point in time, I think that Oswald was wearing a flannel-wool looking jacket to the TSBD, and that it was then substituted by Ce163. The question is: Why did it take until December the 16th for the dark gray blue jacket to be "found"?


How does Frankie Kaiser know that is Oswald's blue gray jacket.... did it have his wallet in it? Does he notice Lee's attire or specific recollections of Lee wearing it?
If so what are they.

Why doesnt the blue jacket have laundry tags if the grey one does and they are both worn after laundering?"
Was that Medium grey jacket worn after it was laundered.
Note  Lee wore size small jackets.
With Malice gives the following on p. 279: "A blue jacket, identified by Marina as Lee's, was discovered in the first floor lunchroom of the Texas School Book Depository, nearly a month after the assassination. Indeed, the FBI lab found "several brown head hairs" on the jacket that microscopically matched hair samples taken from Oswald."


Head hairs, on a jacket found laying on a shelf behind the booth or seat where Oswald eats.
Gee that's a no brainer.
We should study that report more closely.
Where in the jacket were the hairs found, ie inside or simply on the jacket.
Were other hairs found not matching Lee's hair?


A person runs into Beckley grabs a pistol and a wallet, meanwhile the persons ride a police car honks to hurry the person up, and he runs out waits by the curb for the car to circle around and pick him up. The car races to the Tippit murder scene:

"It hadn't been very long when Westbrook looked up and saw me and called me over. He had this wallet in his hand. Now, I don't know where he found it, but he had the wallet in his hand. I presumed they had found it on or near Tippit. Westbrook asked me, 'Do you know who Lee Harvey Oswald is?' And, 'Do you know who Alek Hidell is?' And I said , 'No, I never heard of them'."
"It hadn't been very long when Westbrook looked up and saw me and called me over. He had this wallet in his hand. Now, I don't know where he found it, but he had the wallet in his hand. I presumed they had found it on or near Tippit. Westbrook asked me, 'Do you know who Lee Harvey Oswald is?' And, 'Do you know who Alek Hidell is?' And I said , 'No, I never heard of them'."




Ed, where is this quote from? TIA

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Sat 27 Aug 2022, 6:41 am
Lab report FBI on the jacket with thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

The Gray Jacket - Page 3 Img02710

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Sat 27 Aug 2022, 11:29 am
barto wrote:Lab report FBI on the jacket with thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

The Gray Jacket - Page 3 Img02710

As far as I know (as this lab report reflects) the FBI tested the blue jacket for nitrates + gunpowder residue - but did NOT test the jacket Oswald was supposed to be wearing when he shot Tippit, which is just frickin insane. Either that or they tested it and buried the lab report because it was negative. I could be wrong, and it’s been a while since I looked at this stuff, but I’ve never seen a lab report for the other jacket, except for a report on shirt fibers that were “found” in it.
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Sat 27 Aug 2022, 1:43 pm
Sherry Feister and I discussed the jacket and I brought up the coup de grace or head shot and possibility it,
the jacket, could have blood spatter on it if a close shot to Tippits head was made.
I know the feds etc did not test that jacket or there would need to take samples from it.
They may have swabbed it for nitrates and xray'd it etc. aka non-destructive tests.

Also the shot angles mean the killer had to lean over the hood to get the upward head shot angle... it can not be made as Tippit falls as he falls forward to the side.... not falling away.
So thats a huge discrepancy.
Suck it Dale Myers, Gerald Posner and Company.
Cheers, Ed
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Sun 28 Aug 2022, 1:26 am
Ed, are you suggesting that the head shot had to be a close up shot after Tippet was down because it could not have occurred while he was falling? And I agree, where are the test results on the jacket? The tests were paid for with tax dollars and I don't believe it's a matter of national security, so where are they? It's all BS of course. Lord knows, the FBI would have tested a cat's butthole if it walked past the crime scene.

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Sun 29 Oct 2023, 9:37 pm
Thanks to malcolm Blunt.
Scan by me.

Vincent Drain - William Westbrook - Grey Jacket Nov 22 1963

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