REOPENKENNEDYCASE
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Brian says...Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:33 pmEd.Ledoux
last drinks before the bar closesSat 30 Dec 2023, 2:46 pmTony Krome
The Mystery of Dirk Thomas KunertSat 30 Dec 2023, 1:23 pmTony Krome
Vickie AdamsSat 30 Dec 2023, 1:14 pmgreg_parker
Busted again: Tex ItaliaSat 30 Dec 2023, 9:22 amEd.Ledoux
The Raleigh CallSat 30 Dec 2023, 4:33 ambarto
Was Oswald ever confronted with the physical rifle?Sat 30 Dec 2023, 12:03 amCastroSimp
Who Dat? Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:24 pmTony Krome
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Theory  +Lankford  doyle  tsbd  beckley  Humor  Mason  Lankford  4  tippit  paine  11  hosty  9  Darnell  Lifton  3a  3  frazier  2  Weigman  Floor  zapruder  fritz  prayer  David  

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Ed.Ledoux
Ed.Ledoux
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Fri 15 Dec 2023, 8:04 am
First topic message reminder :

Alyea Film, 
Reporters(?), Baker, Truly, and Campbell are discussing having just seen Oswald 

"WE SAW HIM IN A SMALL STORAGE ROOM ON THE GROUND FLOOR. THEN WE NOTICED HE WAS GONE. "

MR CAMPBELL ADDED. "OF COURSE, MR OSWALD AND THE OTHERS WERE ON THEIR LUNCH HOUR BUT HE DID NOT HAVE PERMISSION TO LEAVE THE BUILDING AND WE HAVEN'T SEEN HIM SINCE." 

Plus behind Ochus is a warehouse worker standing around looking like he's waiting to go back to work?
Not involved in the conversation, not interested in the Cop and Big Wigs pow wow.Who Dat?  - Page 5 Scre1027
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Who dat?
Does he look Oswaldish, same hairline. Has warehousemen type clothing on.

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Jake_Sykes
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Wed 27 Dec 2023, 10:40 am
I would like to know how the sales slip and voucher room related to Oswald's daily activities. Was he required to return sales vouchers that he had been given to him to fill orders, mark the voucher, and then perhaps return to a filing bin located in the Storage Room? Might he have been simply attending to this detail prior to leaving for the day? Maybe he figured he'd be returning to work next week and wanted his work product in order. This would be an activity that would bolster his alibi, so...bye bye.

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Tony Krome
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Wed 27 Dec 2023, 11:42 am
The Voucher and Sales Slip storage room on the other hand looks like a proper "Storage Room". 


How valuable are sales slips? Maybe not valuable enough to keep swinging that heavy door, so what's the bet it was open during the day just like in the photo. Could have been used as a cash vault at some stage before the book mob moved in.
Mick_Purdy
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Wed 27 Dec 2023, 12:20 pm
Ed.Ledoux wrote:So Alyea sneaks in twice?
Damn the luck!
Is this likely Mick?
Or Is there any other recreation b-roll footage?
Just this?
I only ask because I'm almost certain this has been raised before....I accept all the vision from the upper floors is from 22/11/63
I'm checking that the footage of the group on the first (ground) floor which is claimed to be Aleya's footage is actually that and taken on the day of the assassination. I do realise that that cameras were forbidden to enter the TSBD over the following days.

Just to be clear I'm not suggesting the film is not take on the day - just trying to confirm that it was.  Who Dat?  - Page 5 1f604
Is there an entire reel of Aleyas footage from 22/1163 that anyone has a link to?

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Jake_Sykes
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Wed 27 Dec 2023, 3:11 pm
Tony Krome wrote:The Voucher and Sales Slip storage room on the other hand looks like a proper "Storage Room". 


How valuable are sales slips? Maybe not valuable enough to keep swinging that heavy door, so what's the bet it was open during the day just like in the photo. Could have been used as a cash vault at some stage before the book mob moved in.

Exactly my thinking too.

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Ed.Ledoux
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Wed 27 Dec 2023, 3:45 pm
I concure Jake.
Nicely done sir.
,Add that was where the 2nd floor office staff kept their old paperwork, to which the VP would be well aware of that rooms usage,.
Ed.Ledoux
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Wed 27 Dec 2023, 4:35 pm
Here ya are Mick,

https://youtu.be/0Pl0s4WOIOA?feature=shared

Only other fella who had a camera and supposedly entered was Ron Reiland, per Alyea.
So "maybe" Reiland filmed it, Ron left as per Alyea, TSBD stuff gets cut from Ron's Tippit murder scoop, Alyea retrieved it looking in trash for his film, he thinks he maybe shot it, it gets mixed into his reel... why Reiland didnt claim it, maybe he never watched Alyea's complete reel. Speculation purely. Its that or Alyea films it.
Did you want Occam to lend you a hand on the betting odds?
If you can find other film of a recreation or anyone claiming that clip as "theirs" please educate me/us/all
Its always been attached to Alyea, so provenance is its Alyea.
Can we move to getting our hands on the reel, and examining it for edge markings, etc to find out is this timed when Alyea first entered on the first floor before following these specific detectives upstairs to search the 4th floor.
Is it as one would film entering a building such as Alyea described?
I'd say yes.

Everybody rushed in stood around didnt know what to do or where to go, a pow wow ensues. oh, what's up? What do we do? Fourth floor you say? Off they go.
Tony Krome
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Wed 27 Dec 2023, 6:48 pm
"Only other fella who had a camera and supposedly entered was Ron Reiland, per Alyea."


I'm wondering if Alyea mentioned Ron because handed the film to him later when he came back from Oak Cliff. I'm not finding where Ron claims any footage inside the TSBD, or even where he says he spent time inside. Both Alyea and Baffle repeatedly claim they were the only newsmen inside for hours. Again, both Alyea and Biffle state the doors were sealed behind them, and Alyea staes that Ron came in "later", so maybe edged in to grab the film. More info needed here.
Ed.Ledoux
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Wed 27 Dec 2023, 7:11 pm
But yet Alyea claims Ron got in, even though he (alyea) says he hears them saying behind him lock the doors, and says Ron got out.
I looked and Ron is silent on being in/near/around the TSBD.
Perhaps the cops let Ron step inside to talk to a Lieutenant as Alyea is attempting to toss him the film...
That seems to fit better for Ron but not the clip.

Tony Krome
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Wed 27 Dec 2023, 7:18 pm
Yep, if we can find anything at all that Reiland was inside, making that 2 movie cameras inside, then we can entertain any connection to the Storage Room group.
Jake_Sykes
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Wed 27 Dec 2023, 10:17 pm
Ed.Ledoux wrote:I concure Jake.
Nicely done sir.
,Add that was where the 2nd floor office staff kept their old paperwork, to which the VP would be well aware of that rooms usage,.

Thanks Ed.

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Mick_Purdy
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Thu 28 Dec 2023, 11:53 am
Ed.Ledoux wrote:Here ya are Mick,

https://youtu.be/0Pl0s4WOIOA?feature=shared

Only other fella who had a camera and supposedly entered was Ron Reiland, per Alyea.
So "maybe" Reiland filmed it, Ron left as per Alyea, TSBD stuff gets cut from Ron's Tippit murder scoop, Alyea retrieved it looking in trash for his film, he thinks he maybe shot it, it gets mixed into his reel... why Reiland didnt claim it, maybe he never watched Alyea's complete reel. Speculation purely. Its that or Alyea films it.
Did you want Occam to lend you a hand on the betting odds?
If you can find other film of a recreation or anyone claiming that clip as "theirs" please educate me/us/all
Its always been attached to Alyea, so provenance is its Alyea.
Can we move to getting our hands on the reel, and examining it for edge markings, etc to find out is this timed when Alyea first entered on the first floor before following these specific detectives upstairs to search the 4th floor.
Is it as one would film entering a building such as Alyea described?
I'd say yes.

Everybody rushed in stood around didnt know what to do or where to go, a pow wow ensues. oh, what's up? What do we do? Fourth floor you say? Off they go.
Good onya Ed, thanks mate. Ronnie Reiland had a bad day at the office, Friday 22nd November. Forgot how to film interiors at the Texas Theatre - Claiming forgetfulness. Hmmmmm! I wonder if this film clip of the pow wow on the first between all these really important VIP's is before heading up to the fourth or after coming back down from their upstairs adventure. Did they even go upstairs at all? Great thread by the way Ed.

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Ed.Ledoux
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Thu 28 Dec 2023, 12:43 pm
Yes, it just really looks to me like Alyea is very quick. Like he says in this description. He only takes a few seconds to grab. 5 rolls of film runs from Main and Commerce over to elm and Houston stands around. Looking around for he says, 15 seconds sees somebody looking up at the building decides to make a break for the door makes a break for the door he says, I'm in that building you know less than a couple minutes ... he's saying less than that.  So he is fairly quickly in the building and is filmingly sequences. If he's in the building very quickly, Mick, and he goes upstairs with people, well then he can't be downstairs to be filming Baker. So you know you're stuck with his very quick timing. He says getting to the building and getting into the building where he's filming. And also what he says about this is he's filming as he's running to the corner.  So where's that footage? I mean it's probably just gone. But the full footage that he's shot is nowhere to be seen no 5 rolls of footage. And I forget what that works out to in feet. But somebody did, somebody did work it out. What's left isn't but you know a fraction of maybe 2 or 3 rolls. So a lot of it's cut a lot of it's history, bless our soul that alyea save this or whomever saved this from the trash can, if it was going into the rubbish bin and we have it.
Mick_Purdy
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Thu 28 Dec 2023, 5:22 pm
Ed.Ledoux wrote:Yes, it just really looks to me like Alyea is very quick. Like he says in this description. He only takes a few seconds to grab. 5 rolls of film runs from Main and Commerce over to elm and Houston stands around. Looking around for he says, 15 seconds sees somebody looking up at the building decides to make a break for the door makes a break for the door he says, I'm in that building you know less than a couple minutes ... he's saying less than that.  So he is fairly quickly in the building and is filmingly sequences. If he's in the building very quickly, Mick, and he goes upstairs with people, well then he can't be downstairs to be filming Baker. So you know you're stuck with his very quick timing. He says getting to the building and getting into the building where he's filming. And also what he says about this is he's filming as he's running to the corner.  So where's that footage? I mean it's probably just gone. But the full footage that he's shot is nowhere to be seen no 5 rolls of footage. And I forget what that works out to in feet. But somebody did, somebody did work it out. What's left isn't but you know a fraction of maybe 2 or 3 rolls. So a lot of it's cut a lot of it's history, bless our soul that alyea save this or whomever saved this from the trash can, if it was going into the rubbish bin and we have it.
Ed, when I first started filming in news I had a Bolex 100 foot spool load 16mm camera. No audio. lol. The next camera was an Arri S 16mm 100 foot load capacity. 2 minutes 30 seconds is all ya got. Made you extremely efficient at choosing ya shots.
Similarly I went on to film with a Mitchell 16mm 400 foot load camera and then eventually the very famous CP 16mm camera 400 foot load. Filming at 25 frames a second (PAL) we got about 10 minutes from those 400 ft loads.

So sounds to me like Aleya has a 16mm 100 foot load camera, grabs 5 rolls of film and that would equate to 12 minutes and 30 seconds of footage if he exposed the lot.

I can't imagine someone carrying 5 x 400 ft rolls of film along with them and being able to film as well, Of course maybe Reiland helped out. It makes much more sense that Aleya had 5 x100 ft rolls of film stashed in his coat pockets or whatever.

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Tony Krome
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Thu 28 Dec 2023, 6:58 pm
Mick, Alyea jumped out of the car with a Bell and Howell 16mm, and he shoved 5 rolls of film in his coat pockets, if that helps.
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Thu 28 Dec 2023, 8:05 pm
Ed, yes, once Alyea is out of the car at Commerce/Houston, he arrives at the TSBD fairly quick BUT he has to hear "Code 3" on the radio before he exits the car. So what time is Code 3 heard by Alyea? Which police channel was on in the car?
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Thu 28 Dec 2023, 11:35 pm
12:41 Code 3 Elm n Houston
Tony Krome
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Thu 28 Dec 2023, 11:57 pm
Code 3 is on the transcripts earlier without Elm. Plus he has to enter with a bunch of officers. There's Sawyer's lot that entered just after 12:34. Sawyer supposedly gets back to 1st around 12:37/8
Ed.Ledoux
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Fri 29 Dec 2023, 12:04 am
12:34 "Report to Inwood and Stemmons and cut all traffic for the ambulance going to Parkland. Code 3"
Ed.Ledoux
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Fri 29 Dec 2023, 12:07 am
Thats probably quicker than Baker.
He had to run to DalTex and back to TSBD.
I am not seeing enough time for Baker to run to roof and straight back down, let alone searching pigeon perches, and poking guns into luncheon areas.
Tony Krome
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Fri 29 Dec 2023, 12:13 am
12:34 "Report to Inwood and Stemmons and cut all traffic for the ambulance going to Parkland. Code 3"


I'm liking that one.
Ed.Ledoux
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Fri 29 Dec 2023, 12:13 am
Alyea is filming out window when that 12:41 code 3 brings all cars to the TSBD.
Alyea impugns officer Baker.
Makes Dough boy a liar liar cop pants on fire.
Cheers, Ed
Tony Krome
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Fri 29 Dec 2023, 12:16 am
At 12:34, Sawyer is still in the car, Alyea is grabbing the film. The race is on.
Ed.Ledoux
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Fri 29 Dec 2023, 1:08 am
Mick_Purdy wrote:
Ed.Ledoux wrote:Yes, it just really looks to me like Alyea is very quick. Like he says in this description. He only takes a few seconds to grab. 5 rolls of film runs from Main and Commerce over to elm and Houston stands around. Looking around for he says, 15 seconds sees somebody looking up at the building decides to make a break for the door makes a break for the door he says, I'm in that building you know less than a couple minutes ... he's saying less than that.  So he is fairly quickly in the building and is filmingly sequences. If he's in the building very quickly, Mick, and he goes upstairs with people, well then he can't be downstairs to be filming Baker. So you know you're stuck with his very quick timing. He says getting to the building and getting into the building where he's filming. And also what he says about this is he's filming as he's running to the corner.  So where's that footage? I mean it's probably just gone. But the full footage that he's shot is nowhere to be seen no 5 rolls of footage. And I forget what that works out to in feet. But somebody did, somebody did work it out. What's left isn't but you know a fraction of maybe 2 or 3 rolls. So a lot of it's cut a lot of it's history, bless our soul that alyea save this or whomever saved this from the trash can, if it was going into the rubbish bin and we have it.
Ed, when I first started filming in news I had a Bolex 100 foot spool load 16mm camera. No audio. lol. The next camera was an Arri S 16mm 100 foot load capacity. 2 minutes 30 seconds is all ya got. Made you extremely efficient at choosing ya shots.
Similarly I went on to film with a Mitchell 16mm 400 foot load camera and then eventually the very famous CP 16mm camera 400 foot load. Filming at 25 frames a second (PAL) we got about 10 minutes from those 400 ft loads.

So sounds to me like Aleya has a 16mm 100 foot load camera, grabs 5 rolls of film and that would equate to 12 minutes and 30 seconds of footage if he exposed the lot.

I can't imagine someone carrying 5 x 400 ft rolls of film along with them and being able to film as well, Of course maybe Reiland helped out. It makes much more sense that Aleya had 5 x100 ft rolls of film stashed in his coat pockets or whatever.
I was of impression these were 100 foot daylight loading spools.
Shooting 24 frames will give 2 minute 40+ seconds each.
Either of us is right then a SHITLOAD of film went into the circular file. (trash can)
Ed.Ledoux
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Fri 29 Dec 2023, 11:08 am
Turner gives account of Truly and Campbell in that spot!

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Tony Krome
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Fri 29 Dec 2023, 11:20 am
Turner goes to Parkland, returns to Elm to search a boxcar, then enters the TSBD. So Baker is well gone by this point. Must be closing in on 1pm.
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