Prayer Man

First topic message reminder :

Original Prayer Man thread at the Education Forum
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20354-oswald-leaving-tsbd/

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G'day,
I have to say I find it oh so mildly amusing reading some of the comments, thoughts and rants associated on other forums regarding Prayer Man / Oswald on the front steps. It's sad really, watching people who have spent a lifetime married to an idea or a theory, only to witness that idea or theory shattering into a thousand pieces and not accepting the inevitable singular conclusion which is staring them in the face. To Greg Parker, Sean Murphy and all the other amazing researchers following the path of truth in this case I tips me Lid.

Mick

Hi Vinny,
Where is this from? 
Thanks,
Jake

FB Jake, I blocked that twat months ago. Still sucking JVB's tit no doubt.
Another twat who deserves the same treatment as the cheaters in Casino.

txs mate.

MrScrambledEgg wrote:I'm not expert on PrayerMan but in defence of Wesley Frazier surely PM could not have been on the steps in front of him very long. 

In the Weigman film as I recollect PM is behind Shelley and Lovelady having apparently just arrived from lunch. A few seconds later S & L have run down the road and PrayerMan has moved onto the step and is leaning against the wall, getting filmed by Darnell. A few seconds later PM apparently moves towards the door to get out of the way of the women moving up the steps and is supposedly behind the door when the plod Baker asks him a question just a few seconds later.

If the above is correct PM would only have moved into Frazier's line of sight just when he is distracted by the shooting and commotion. Has anybody done some sort of timeline for PM's movements as per the above or whatever is the canonical version of them?

G'day Mr. Scrambled Egg,

I'm not expert on PrayerMan but in defence of Wesley Frazier surely PM could not have been on the steps in front of him very long. 


I can understand what you're saying here and you maybe right. I've done a heap of research on Buell and I've come to understand a few things about his character back then. Either wittingly or unwittingly he has lied on almost everything regarding Lee's movements and what Lee may have said in the days prior to and on the day of the assassination to authorities. He either by design or not, helped frame Oswald for the murder of Kennedy. That to my mind makes him either a witting participant in the frame or an unwitting participant who was hoodwinked by Linnie Mae. So with that in mind I don't believe Frazier on any point with regards to the facts of the case. He gets no wriggle room from me. I've made that clear here for some time.


I've looked at the footage from Darnell many times on Retina screens in the highest res I can find, and I am left with no doubt in my mind that Frazier was talking with PM on the steps. Frazier makes it clear back in the early days post assassination that he remembered who was on those steps just before and after the shots rang out.


Even recently he reaffirmed whom he believed was standing to his left 50+ years on. I don't buy it, that he doesn't know or can't remember the only unidentified person that we can see in the Darnell frame standing two feet away from him right next to his right hand side. I believe he knows exactly who that person was. Is it possible that he didn't see PM? Not to my eyes, not after viewing the Darnell frames as moving images rather than still frames. 


I think Wesley may have had a very good reason for not divulging who was standing a top of the steps next to him on the right hand side for all this time, I can completely understand that. I think we all can.

I agree,Mick.It does appear that Frazier was talking to PM.

To my mind it's appalling that PM hasn't been taken seriously by others, including the authorities. With the wealth of research study behind the frames shiowing that there is a distinct (near certain) possibility that the unidentified figure in both the Weigman and Darnell frames a top of the stairs could be Oswald - there should be much more interest in this area of the case in my opinion.

The dishonesty surrounding this research by the broader JFK community is disgraceful. Here we have solid ground breaking research as a foundation for the claim that PM is Oswald and, with a figure in two different pictorial sources depicting a man whom strikingly resembles Lee Oswald in a different location at the very time the authorities have claimed he was on the sixth floor.

If that doesn't scream a headline then I don't know what does!

Buell Wesley Frazier, you can clear Lee Oswald's name today. 

Imagine. 

Marina and the extended Oswald family would be forever grateful for you admitting to the truth, that Lee was the unidentified man in both the Weigman and Darnell news footage whom can be seen standing next to your right hand side - a mere few feet away-talking to you -a top of the steps immediately after the shots rang out.

It would be great if Frazier does that,Mick.Especially at a public event  Frazier's book launching will be in November.Just imagine if he were to announce at his book launching that PM is Oswald. Would be great plus might get a lot of publicity.

Hey Bart, have you (or anyone else) ever try locating and interviewing Peggy Hawkins’ child just to see if more light could possibly be shed on that moment of hers?

Ed interviewed Peggy
At some point I will upload the tapes
I am too swamped to do this at this time

barto wrote:Ed interviewed Peggy
At some point I will upload the tapes
I am too swamped to do this at this time

Of course mate (thanks Ed for even doing it, for history's sake) and no worries! Just curious if she or any close friends or relatives had been interviewed for the record, etc. You take your time doing your work for sure Bart.

A blast from the past.A thread mentioning PM in 2010.

https://wayback.archive.org/web/20131026002914/http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com:80/index.php/topic,2497.0.html

Bill Kelly on Prayer Man.



https://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2018/09/evaluating-photo-evidence-in-jfk.html

Still sticking to the 2nd floor cluster fuck....way to go Bill!

And he effectively relegates Prayer Man to the same level as the Badge Man and Door Man flapdoodle.
 
Cognitive dissonance seems the only explanation. Bill has invested too much down through the years in the “limited hangout” of the official story to let it go now.

Ironically it was Bill who started the famous Prayer Man thread at the Ed Forum.

It's really important to view the Darnell frame in its entirety the whole frame when looking at the PM figure. When this is done one can see Buell Wesley Frazier without any problem in fact his image almost leaps at you. When viewed this way, so too does the image of PM as Oswald. 

Sean Murphy was onto this ages ago and said as much.

Sean Murphy

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Posted September 10, 2013 (edited)

  On 9/10/2013 at 10:50 AM, Martin Hinrichs said:


I thought that the increasment of the images from Robin does help to exclude the presence of Oswald idea
but the opposite is the case.
The new Darnell frames shows somebody in the doorway who really can be Oswald.
Without the frames i would be silent. But now...........
The more i look at it, the more Oswald.
Martin

Hi Martin,
It's him alright.

Important to zoom out again and reiterate that the shape of Oswald's torso is distorted here because of the blocking presence of a woman on the steps in front of him.
If one starts with this woman's foot and lower leg, one can work one's way up to where her head is and appreciate the enlarging effect she is having on Oswald's frame (oh dear, that could have been phrased better...):

A year and a bit ago ppl at EF were laying into me and saying it was sunlight and not a foot
Blah blah blah ......,,,,

Lance Payette is back.

Try reading the Prayer Man thread if it's still around - this was such a damned weird conspiracy that the conspirators didn't even care if the designated patsy was standing on the front steps of the TBSD at the time of the assassination!  They were such inept dolts that they blasted JFK from the front at ground level but had the patsy stationed six floors up behind him, thereby necessitating body alterations, film alternations, autopsy photo alternations - and leaving hundreds of "obvious" clues in the process!  Can you truly not see that this is lunatic fringe stuff?  (To answer my own question:  No, you can't, if you have the conspiracy mindset.  This is why, to me, the more interesting question is "Why do some sane and intelligent people think this way?")

As I said in the Prayer Man thread, go for it!  Produce a clear, no-question-about-it photo of LHO standing on the steps of the TBSD and I will instantly throw in the towel.  But the entire Prayer Man discussion, like the 900 pages of Harvey and Lee, didn't even dent my Lone Nut armor.  In all the decades of conspiracy theorizing, I have yet to see one piece of genuinely compelling evidence that points unequivocally toward a conspiracy.  Conspiracy theorists specialize in finding "flaws" in the undeniable evidence and "gaps" that they fill in with conspiracy-oriented speculation, but they never manage to produce any hard, compelling, no-question-about-it evidence of their own.  Isn't that rather telling?

Francois Carlier's reply

It will NEVER happen.
Mark my words.
Never in a million years can anyone produce a picture of Lee Oswald on the front steps of the TSBD.
He was not there. He was on the sixth floor.
What makes me say that ? Easy. Of course, we have the physical evidence and the scientific evidence in this case.
But Oswald's behavior is a very good indication that he was the assassin.
His whole behavior in front of the police, and even his attitude in front of his brother.
Clearly, if Oswald had been on the steps of the Book Depository when JFK's motorcade drove onto Elm Street, he would not have been found at the Texas theater later on, after having killed a policeman.
Oswald's own actions show his guilt.

barto wrote:A year and a bit ago ppl at EF were laying into me and saying it was sunlight and not a foot
Blah blah blah ......,,,,

It's sunlight. No question about it.

I love it when people believe the conspirators are "godly", or perfect mechanics.....they are not as they are human. LHO was something of a slippery Eel. I mean look at how it seemingly spiraled out of control due to his not being killed at the Theater, his survival for 2 days. That response from Francois is just terrible rhetoric that has been ill-gained for 50+ years. The chain of custody evidence alone is terrible for the perps, not to mention a million other aspects of the crime and setup of LHO. "Francois" also cannot explain just who the hell it was on the phone pretending to be LHO in Mexico City. Again, just a couple points that point to something far more sinister than the Lone Assassin weak argument.

Just from my observations over these past years. My opinion and nothing more. Yes Oswald was framed for 2 murders he did not commit. A lot of this so called framing in my view was done after the fact....Oswald was an accused taken into custody that friday afternoon by law enforcement whom had been "tipped" off Truly no doubt played a role in that. What followed was in my opinion business as usual for the crooked railroading DPD headed by Fritz...Washington were calling for a lone nut gunman scenario as early as 5.00pm. The Dallas cops obliged. The 23rd sealed the deal, thanks to a few crooked cops and Ruth Paine.

It was not so extraordinary....

Some of these guys are heavily addicted to evidence. They're always asking for it and when they think its not enough they get all irritable and bothered. They should go elsewhere to get their hit but the sad truth is they don't have anywhere else to go but Prayer Man.

A lot of in depth research has been done at ROKC in respect to Prayer Man. None of it speculative or peddled with an agenda behind it. That's why it isn't good enough for some of these junkies. These guys need the hard evidence stuff like in the WCR. Addicted since 1964. How sad. Once a lone nutter always a lone nutter.