Prayer Man

First topic message reminder :

Original Prayer Man thread at the Education Forum
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20354-oswald-leaving-tsbd/

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G'day,
I have to say I find it oh so mildly amusing reading some of the comments, thoughts and rants associated on other forums regarding Prayer Man / Oswald on the front steps. It's sad really, watching people who have spent a lifetime married to an idea or a theory, only to witness that idea or theory shattering into a thousand pieces and not accepting the inevitable singular conclusion which is staring them in the face. To Greg Parker, Sean Murphy and all the other amazing researchers following the path of truth in this case I tips me Lid.

Mick

Vinny wrote:Fetzer on Prayer Man. It starts around 1.03.

Thanks, Vinny. The video is painful to watch and Fetzer is as silly as ever. Like Barto, I couldn't stand much of it but simply fatforwarded to the 1.03.55 mark to start watching. Loud and obnoxious, Fetzer talked about how fat the guy is compared to Oswald and especially his claim that the tall guy next to Prayerman can't be Frazier because Larry somebody-or-other said it wasn't.

He also claims he has looked at every Darnell clipping on the web and cannot find this portion and would like to know where it came from, if not faked. Maybe he should have looked for Weigman?

As we know, Frazier himself has acknowledged that figure as himself so Fetzer has, as usual, fallen far short of any actual evidence gathering. I take it that he, like Armstrong, works better on coercing "statements" from people that sound like evidence.

What a wanker.

Vinny wrote:

This guy is a real piece of work. Greg has been going round and round with the tag team of Dumber and Dumbest (Shackelford and Vinny Tieto) over on FB. Shackelford is his own worse enema and Tieto proudly claims to have been "investigating" the case for 50+ years... during which time he has not strayed one iota from the WC Report.

Funny, I wouldn't call that "investigating". I would called that trolling from preconception.

And Shackelhead keeps sidestepping his early support of JVB by claiming that he no longer completely supports her every statement, only those which, you know, he still does, sort of... or something.

Personally, I don't know how Greg can keep up the conversation with these two loons.

But, that's me.

Yes I have been reading those threads on FB.Martin keeps on about how he does not support JVB any longer.Greg keeps on calling him out on it. Tieto reminds one of DVP and Payette. Francois Carlier was invited to join the debate too by Jones  but so far no reply from him.

This Sam Fraser guy says the book is "still in development".

WTF

Terry W. Martin wrote:This Sam Fraser guy says the book is "still in development".

WTF

I can only imagine that the comment is several years old?

Maybe his idea of something to say that will get people researching the topic whether or not they read the book? I know I wish more people would.

greg parker wrote:

Terry W. Martin wrote:This Sam Fraser guy says the book is "still in development".

WTF

I can only imagine that the comment is several years old?

No it is only a few days old. He is apparently referring to Bart's site which is in development until his movie and book come out.

Interesting discussion here guys:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25455-prayer-man/

The Ed Forum does not seem to care much about PM. They even locked the excellent thread containing Sean Murphy's excellent research. The new thread by Rich pales in comparison to it.

Vinny any reason given for closing that thread? I remember taking part in it, just a bit though.

BC_II wrote:Vinny any reason given for closing that thread? I remember taking part in it, just a bit though.

 Here is the reason given.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20354-oswald-leaving-tsbd/?page=233

Momentum, momentum, momentum! There I said it. Rant over

Is this one of us?

Hope not Vinny. The more people who lay into Doyle the better. It doesn't aways have to be us.

This is crop is taken from the work of Stan Dane.

Look closely all you naysayers - look inward too and then take a long hard look in the mirror at who you really are.

I need  say no more.

Quite amazing that this Prayer Man guy looks just like Oswald isn't it? What a coincidence.

Vinny wrote:Quite amazing that this Prayer Man guy looks just like Oswald isn't it? What a coincidence.

"In a world that operates largely at random, coincidences are to be expected, but any one of them must always be mistrusted."
Prayer Man, p. 129

Stan Dane wrote:

Vinny wrote:Quite amazing that this Prayer Man guy looks just like Oswald isn't it? What a coincidence.

"In a world that operates largely at random, coincidences are to be expected, but any one of them must always be mistrusted."
Prayer Man, p. 129

Yes a thousand times Stan,

especially regarding this case and especially in Oswald's situation.

Prayer Man. Oswald's Alibi.



Hosty's notes discovered recently. Credit: M. Blunt. B. Kamp.


Added to this latest discovery are as follows


Witness statements and various reports which placed Oswald on the first floor of the TSBD between 11.45am and 12.30pm on the 22/11/63




Bill Shelley WC Testimony:

Mr. BALL - On the 22d of November 1963, did you see him come to work that morning?
Mr. SHELLEY - No, he was at work when I got there already filling orders.
Mr. BALL - Did you see him from time to time during that day?
Mr. SHELLEY - I am sure I did. I do remember seeing him when I came down to. eat lunch about 10 to 12.
·  
William Shelley: “I do remember seeing him when I came down to eat lunch about 10 to 12” (WCHE, vol.6, p.328); “It was 10 or 15 minutes before 12 … on the first floor over near the telephone” (WCHE, vol.7, p.390).
 
 
 
Eddie Piper WC Testimony.
 
    Mr. BALL. And, did you see Oswald that morning?
    Mr. PIPER. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BALL. Where?
    Mr. PIPER. Down on the first floor filling orders.
    Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him again that day?
    Mr. PIPER You mean all day---the rest of the day?
    Mr. BALL. Yes, sir.
    Mr. PIPER. No.
    Mr. BALL. Was that the last time you saw him?
    Mr. PIPER. Just at 12 o'clock.
    Mr. BALL. Where were you at 12 o'clock?
    Mr. PIPER. Down on the first floor.
    Mr. BALL. What was he doing?
    Mr. PIPER. Well, I said to him---"It's about lunch time. I believe I'll go have lunch." So, he says, "Yeah"---he mumbled something---I don't know whether he said he was going up or going out, so I got my sandwich off of the radiator and went on back to the first window of the first floor.
 








Carolyn Arnold. Statement to the FBI.
Statement to FBI, 26 November 1963

    Mrs. R. E. ARNOLD, Secretary, Texas School Book Depository, advised she was in her office on the second floor of the building on November 22, 1963, and left that office between 12:00 and 12:15 PM, to go downstairs and stand in front of the building to view the Presidential Motorcade. As she was standing in front of the building, she stated she thought she caught a fleeting glimpse of LEE HARVEY OSWALD standing in the hallway between the front door and the double doors leading to the warehouse, located on the first floor. She could not be sure that this was OSWALD, but said she felt it was and believed the time to be a few minutes before 12:15 PM.

    She stated thereafter she viewed the Presidential Motorcade and heard the shots that were fired at the President; however, she could furnish no information of value as to the individual firing the shots or any other information concerning OSWALD, whom she stated she did not know and had merely seen him working in the building.

    on 11/26/1963 at Dallas, Texas
    by Special Agent Richard E. Harrison

    (Warren Commission Document 5, p.41)




Norman WC Testimony:


Mr. BALL. Where were you when you ate your lunch?
Mr. NORMAN. In the domino room, as I recall.
Mr. BALL. Who was with you at that time?
Mr. NORMAN. I can't remember who ate in the lunchroom, I mean the domino room, with me.
Mr. BALL. Did some other employees eat there?
Mr. NORMAN. I think there was someone else in there...

( 3 H 189 )




James ‘Junior’ Jarman and Harold Norman:


Oswald’s claim of observing two black workers of which one of them he referred to as Junior (Jarman's nickname) and the other as "short" near the Domino room when he was eating his lunch was corroborated by the accounts of the two black employees who matched these descriptions: James Jarman was known as ‘Junior’, and Harold Norman who was short.


 (Jarman: WCHE, vol.3, pp.201–202; Norman: WCHE, vol.3, pp.189–190). 


Both men had been standing outside the TSBD, waiting to see the President. They had overheard that the motorcade had reached Main Street, they decided to go back into the building to obtain a better view. 


Jarman stated that he was standing outside “until about 12:20, between 12:20 and 12:25”. 
Police radio logs state that the motorcade was crossing Live Oak Street about one minute from Main Street, at 12:22pm (Commission Exhibit 705, p.72 [WCHE, vol.17, p.461]), which indicated that Jarman and Norman entered the TSBD at about 12:23.
 
http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-harvey-oswald-alibi
 


Bookhout.


OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, he had eaten lunch in the lunch room at the Texas School Book Depository, alone, but recalled possibly two Negro employees walking through the room during this period. He stated possibly one of these employees was called ‘Junior’ and the other was a short individual whose name he could not recall but whom he would be able to recognize.




(WR, p.622)
 
 
 
 
Givens Affidavit:


In an affidavit on the day after the assassination, Givens claimed that he saw Oswald in the domino room where the employees eat lunch about 11:50 A.M. (Commission Document 5, p.329).
 




Fritz


“I asked him what part of the building he was in at the time the President was shot, and he said that he was having his lunch about that time on the first floor.”
 
 Fritz’s WC testimony:
Mr Ball :
With reference to where he was at the time the President was shot, did he tell you what floor of the building he was on?


Mr Fritz :
I feel sure that he told me he was on the second floor.


Mr Ball :
Look at 136B.


Mr Fritz :
All right, sir.
           
Mr Ball :
The second paragraph down, 136B.
           
Mr Fritz :
Yes, sir; second floor; yes, sir. He said he usually worked on the first floor. I asked him what part of the building at the time the President was shot. He said he was having lunch at about this time on the first floor.




(Warren Commission Hearings and Exhibits, vol.4, p.231)Fritz’s notes:

“Claims 2^nd floor Coke -  when (went?) off - came into first floor had lunch - (then?) out front with Bill Shelley.”
Oswald would only know if Bill Shelley had been out front if Oswald himself had been there.
 
 
Harry Holmes WC Testimony:
            


Mr Holmes :
He said it was in the vestibule.


Mr Belin :
He said it was in the vestibule?


Mr Holmes :
Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.


Mr Belin :
Did he state it was on what floor?


Mr Holmes :
First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.


Mr Belin :
Did he say anything about a Coca Cola or anything like that, if you remember?
 
             (WCHE, vol.7, pp.302, 305–306)

Shelley, Given's, Piper, Arnold, Truly, and Campbell all observed Lee Oswald on the first floor of the TSBD between 11.45am and 12.33pm Friday November 22nd 1963.

Oswald is documented stating to various investigators that he was on the first floor having lunch and was in that vicinity of the first floor when the parade passed the building, just as these 6 witnesses claimed.

Texas Grand Jury!

AGREED!

Great stuff,Stan. To them PM is invisible man.

It begged me to do it