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No Shots Fired From The TSBDSun 11 Nov 2018, 2:35 ambarto
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Thu 26 Apr 2018, 4:47 pm
Stan,
Powder residue is indicative of the slow sealing, and an actual discoloration of the brass where its prolonged.

All the various test brass photos should be compared.
There were plenty of tests...
At sometime during the period March 17, 1964 to March
30, 1964, rifle was tested by the Weapons Evaluation Branch,
Department of Army, Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland. Also,
during or about March 1964, the rifle was tested at Edgewood
Arsenal, Maryland.

Cheers,
Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Thu 26 Apr 2018, 4:49 pm
Much obliged Mick!
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Thu 26 Apr 2018, 6:28 pm
Ed. Ledoux wrote:Stan,
Powder residue is indicative of the slow sealing, and an actual discoloration of the brass where its prolonged.

All the various test brass photos should be compared.
There were plenty of tests...
At sometime during the period March 17, 1964 to March
30, 1964, rifle was tested by the Weapons Evaluation Branch,
Department of Army, Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland. Also,
during or about March 1964, the rifle was tested at Edgewood
Arsenal, Maryland.

Cheers,
Ed

Makes sense, Ed.
 
Is the thinking that the 6.5x52mm Carcano ammo had these slow sealing problems when fired, either occasionally or routinely? If so, then we should expect to see evidence of slow sealing (powder residue, case discoloration) on the spent cartridges? And if not, that might suggest the cartridges found in the TSBD were not recently fired?  I'm still getting up to speed on this.
 
And yes, if there are photos available of the spent cartridges, it would be good to look at them closely.
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 9:28 am
I think you've got it by george!
Dont know tho if Carcano rifles are prone to this, seems a rare case.
When scores of rifles chambers are reemed out the tool can wear, and possibly cause chamber irregularities.
The test shells should tell us if that rifle c2766 with similar ammo has those propensites.
Cheers, Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Thu 03 May 2018, 3:39 pm
Rifle Cartridge and Cartridge Cases

When the rifle was found, one cartridge was in the chamber.26 The cartridge was a 6.5-millimeter Mannlicher-Carcano cartridge, manufactured by the Western Cartridge Co., at East Alton, Ill. This type of cartridge is loaded with a full metal-jacketed, military type of bullet, weighing 160-161 grains. The bullet has parallel sides and a round nose. It is just under 1.2 inches long, and just over one-fourth inch in diameter.27 Its velocity is approximately 2,165 feet per second.28 The cartridge is very dependable; in tests runs by the FBI and the Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the U.S. Army, the C2766 rifle was fired with this Western Cartridge Co. ammunition over 100 times, with no misfires.

Hmmm Im having trouble finding these 100 spent cartriges.
Cheers, Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Tue 08 May 2018, 5:25 pm
Yeah darling what building did those shots come from? 
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Mon 21 May 2018, 7:22 pm
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Mon 21 May 2018, 7:45 pm
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 5:44 pm
Thanks Bart, these guys dig themselves deeper holes...

Cheers,Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Wed 22 Aug 2018, 9:06 pm
Posted by D.M. on FB

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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 9:48 am
Rackley relevant testimony

Mr. RACKLEY. The only thing - I told the guy, he was down there, the only thing that I saw that looked suspicious to me, there was something like a hundred pigeons flew up like you shot into them, and I noticed that, but I never heard no shots.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you see them fly from?
Mr. RACKLEY. From over the top of the building.
Mr. BELIN. Which building? The School Book Depository or over on the other side?
Mr. RACKLEY. The Trinity Building.
Mr. BELIN. Which building did they fly off of?
Mr. RACKLEY. I wasn't looking. I just seen they all flew together.
Mr. BELIN. Did it look like they were flying up from both buildings?
Mr. RACKLEY. Both buildings.
Mr. BELIN. You don't know about when this took place?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BELIN. About what time was it that you were looking that way, do you remember, offhand?
Mr. RACKLEY. No; but it was just at the time that the parade was nearing there, I know that.
275


Mr. BELIN. Had any of the parade already gone by the corner of Elm and Houston?
Mr. RACKLEY. I couldn't say.
Mr. BELIN. So you don't know whether it did or didn't?
Mr. RACKLEY. No.
Mr. BELIN. But would you say it was about that time that the motorcade was to be going by there?
Mr. RACKLEY. It was between 11 and 12.
Mr. BELIN. It was between 11 and 12?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. O'clock?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What time did you - was this before or after you had lunch?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well. I just eat just any time I get a chance.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know accurately what time it was?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BELIN. Could it have been as late as 12:30?
Mr. RACKLEY. No.
Mr. BELIN. It was before 12:30?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Before 12?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Sometime between 11 and 12?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, it was at the time that, really, that they had shot him, because I was there when the policemen covered the place.
Mr. BELIN. You were there when the policemen covered the place?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. With relation to the time that the policemen covered the place, how many minutes before that did you see the birds fly up?
Mr. RACKLEY. I saw the pigeons there 2 or 3 minutes before that.
Mr. BELIN. Now after you saw the pigeons, you saw the police covering the place?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Within 2 or3 minutes after you saw the pigeons?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.

Thus not pigeons from a roof, but they flew up over the buildings. ...sounds like ambulance for an head trauma sufferer.

"by greg parker
The basic facts are set out in a letter from Jesse Curry to the Warren Commission dated July 17 1964. In that letter, Curry advised that at 12:19 on Nov 22 1963 an ambulance was requested for the 100 block of North Houston to pick someone up who had suffered an epileptic seizure. The ambulance departed just prior to 12:25. "

Romack and Rackley saw something disturb pigeons, the ambulance could be the causation or covered for sinister elements to get into place on rooftops.... nah just a loud siren.

Nice bit Bart!
Cheers, Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Sat 25 Aug 2018, 6:51 am
Good grief....why do these families donate to the 6th Floor Sad....this is some amazing work by you guys. Thank you.
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Sat 25 Aug 2018, 10:39 pm
From Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter


Those pigeons could have come from anywhere in the vicinity, the picture created in JFK The Movie of the pigeons flying off the roof of the Texas School Book Depository is to be taken for illustrative purposes only and not something that actually happened..
·         Rosemary Willis, the little girl who follows the Presidential limo and is captured in the Zapruder film, starts to mention the pigeons in 1998. In an interview with Texas Monthly! “I didn't know what it was, but I was looking for what I heard. And the pigeons immediately ascended off that roof of the school book depository building and that's what caught my eye. My eyes were searching for what I heard and I see the pigeons, you know, they're scared to death, and take off in abrupt flight.”
“The first shot got my attention, like I said, the pigeons immediately ascended, and I was following the sound that I heard.”
 
·         Motor cycle officer H.B. Maclean, who rode escort of the motorcade, says in his interview with Larry Sneed: “I heard one very clear shot. Evidently I must have felt like it was coming from straight ahead because at that instant I was looking down, and when I heard the shot, threw my head up and it appeared that about 5,000 pigeons flew out from behind that building (the Texas School Book Depository) straight ahead. In` fact, I thought to myself, “Somebody’s shooting at the pigeons!”
5,000 Pigeons? Right….
 
·         George Rackley’s testimony does not really help much either:
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anyone in the parade?
Mr. RACKLEY. The only thing - I told the guy, he was down there, the only thing that I saw that looked suspicious to me, there was something like a hundred pigeons flew up like you shot into them, and I noticed that, but I never heard no shots.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you see them fly from?
Mr. RACKLEY. From over the top of the building.
Mr. BELIN. Which building? The School Book Depository or over on the other side?
Mr. RACKLEY. The Trinity Building.
Mr. BELIN. Which building did they fly off of?
Mr. RACKLEY. I wasn't looking. I just seen they all flew together.
Mr. BELIN. Did it look like they were flying up from both buildings?
Mr. RACKLEY. Both buildings.
 
·         Earle V. Brown, Dallas PD patrolman, stated in his WC testimony regarding the shots and the pigeons the following.
Mr. BROWN. Well, down in that river bottom there, there's a whole lot of pigeons this particular day, and they heard the shots before we did because I saw them flying up - must have been 50, 75 of them.
Mr. BALL. Where was the river bottom?
Mr. BROWN. You know, actually off to the - between us and the, this over pass you are talking about there's kind of a levee along there. It's really a grade of the railroad, is what it is; that's where they were and then I heard these shots and then I smelled this gun powder.
Mr. BALL. You did?
Mr. BROWN. It come on it would be maybe a couple minutes later so - at least it smelled like It to me.
Mr. BALL. What direction did the sound seem to come from?
Mr. BROWN. It came it seemed the direction of that building, that Texas ---
Mr. BALL. School Book Depository?
Mr. BROWN. School Book Depository.
Mr. BALL. Did you see any pigeons flying around the building?
Mr. BROWN. I just don't recall that; no, sir.
Mr. BALL. Which way did you look when you heard the sound?
Mr. BROWN. When I first heard that sound I looked up toward that building because actually it seemed to come from there.
Mr. BALL. Where was it you saw the pigeons rise?
Mr. BROWN. They must have been down there feeding at that time because they just seemed to all take off.
Mr. BALL. Where were they from where you were standing?
Mr. BROWN. From where I was standing they would be about half way between - no, they would be up more toward that other overpass, what they call the triple underpass.
Mr. BALL. The triple underpass?
Mr. BROWN. Yea.
Mr. BALL. You were about 100 yards from the triple underpass?
Mr. BROWN. Approximately; yes.
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Sat 25 Aug 2018, 10:43 pm
Oh and that doc I posted, was more to show that Rackley saw no one leave..
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 3:49 pm
Yes that too.
Hehe
Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 4:01 pm
Anyways, some may have seen pigeons, its very very unlikely a single pigeon flew from the TSBD during the assassination and thus pinpoint it as the source of shots.
Near the TSBD, yes.
On, no.

The challenges are:
1) Photos or Film showing a rifle in a window of the TSBD.
2)Photos or Film showing any aviary species in flight over the TSBD. (I'll accept before assassination to prove #1)
3) Anyone seeing a rifle actually fire from any window of TSBD.

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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 7:36 pm
3) Anyone seeing a rifle actually fire from any window of TSBD.




Well Brennan claimed to have seen a rifle fired from the TSBD,however his testimony is fraught with problems.
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 7:38 pm
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

on Sun 11 Nov 2018, 2:35 am
Brennan ah yes....thx to Malcolm Blunt.

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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

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