Search
Display results as :
Advanced Search
Similar topics
    Log in
    Social bookmarking
    Social bookmarking digg  Social bookmarking delicious  Social bookmarking reddit  Social bookmarking stumbleupon  Social bookmarking slashdot  Social bookmarking yahoo  Social bookmarking google  Social bookmarking blogmarks  Social bookmarking live      

    Bookmark and share the address of REOPENKENNEDYCASE on your social bookmarking website

    Bookmark and share the address of REOPENKENNEDYCASE on your social bookmarking website
    RSS feeds

    Yahoo! 
    MSN 
    AOL 
    Netvibes 
    Bloglines 
    Like/Tweet/+1
    Affiliates
    free forum
     



    Share
    Go down
    avatar
    Posts : 151
    Join date : 2010-03-18
    View user profile

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Sat 26 Oct 2013, 6:09 am
    Shame the family don't defend his memory then and set the record straight.
    avatar
    Posts : 373
    Join date : 2013-04-21
    View user profile

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Sat 26 Oct 2013, 12:48 pm
    During the Cold War, the ROTC trained both future Military Intelligence Officers and Army Security Agency officers. A notable example is Ed Lansdale.  

    It also trained infantry officers, supply officers and staff officers, most US Army officers get their commissions through a college Reserve Officer Training Corps.
    That's not even what's going on at Sunset High School, high schools have Junior ROTC programs but the "officer" part here is a misnomer, its a recruiting tool where retired officers teach in local high schools and encourage the boys (and these days girls) to enlist in the service.  Participation in the program does not lead to an Army commission but allows JROTC "veterans" who go into the service to finish basic training at a slightly higher rank (PFC, say, instead of private)  than the other recruits. Here's a website of a random high school JROTC program.
    http://www.ops.org/high/south/academics/jrotc/tabid/115/default.aspx

    The different spelling on the 1940 Census I think has a  simple explanation.  If you don't mail in your Census form (which in 1940 would likely be due to illiteracy), a Census worker will knock on your door to interview you. The incorrect spelling could simply be due to a Census worker hearing Redfern wrong as he filled out the form on the front porch.
    greg parker
    Admin
    Posts : 5738
    Join date : 2009-08-21
    Age : 61
    Location : Orange, NSW, Australia
    View user profilehttp:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Sat 26 Oct 2013, 4:30 pm
    beowulf wrote:During the Cold War, the ROTC trained both future Military Intelligence Officers and Army Security Agency officers. A notable example is Ed Lansdale.  

    It also trained infantry officers, supply officers and staff officers, most US Army officers get their commissions through a college Reserve Officer Training Corps.
    That's not even what's going on at Sunset High School, high schools have Junior ROTC programs but the "officer" part here is a misnomer, its a recruiting tool where retired officers teach in local high schools and encourage the boys (and these days girls) to enlist in the service.  Participation in the program does not lead to an Army commission but allows JROTC "veterans" who go into the service to finish basic training at a slightly higher rank (PFC, say, instead of private)  than the other recruits. Here's a website of a random high school JROTC program.
    http://www.ops.org/high/south/academics/jrotc/tabid/115/default.aspx

    The different spelling on the 1940 Census I think has a  simple explanation.  If you don't mail in your Census form (which in 1940 would likely be due to illiteracy), a Census worker will knock on your door to interview you. The incorrect spelling could simply be due to a Census worker hearing Redfern wrong as he filled out the form on the front porch.
    This was one of the cites I was relying on
    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Rotc10

    I take your point about this being a junior program - yet I have found info in the past on ROTC members of around 14 and 15 being recruited back in the early '60s into spying on certain types of groups... on behalf of... who knows?  I came across it while researching the identity of Shasteen's barbershop kid...

    _________________
    Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
    I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
    While looking down the corridor
    Out to where the van is waiting
    I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

                Billy Bragg
    -----------------------------
     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                 Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me

    “God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
    "The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
    "You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



    https://www.thenewdisease.space
    avatar
    Posts : 373
    Join date : 2013-04-21
    View user profile

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Sat 26 Oct 2013, 5:32 pm
    yet I have found info in the past on ROTC members of around 14 and 15 being recruited back in the early '60s into spying on certain types of groups... on behalf of... who knows

    I can believe it, off topic a bit, criminal gangs recruited kids that young because in the 1960s at least a teenager could literally get away with murder (the juvenile delinquency laws were such that he could only be held in custody a few years), while nowadays the general idea is if you're old enough to do the crime you're old enough to do the time.
    Same principle, have a kid do some illegal spy work, 1. no one would believe that's what they're up to, so 2. If they're caught, they're just a juvenile delinquent who only faces a stern talking-to.
    Colin Crow
    Posts : 275
    Join date : 2013-08-03
    View user profile

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 1:32 am
    Thanks to Tom for contacting Jack's nephew. Interesting the family is aware of his notoriety on the internet in JFK circles. Not many of the general public or even those who watched/read mainstream JFK related material would be even aware of his existence or his own testimony placed him in the direct path of a fleeing Oswald about 30 seconds after the shots.
    avatar
    Posts : 373
    Join date : 2013-04-21
    View user profile

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 6:56 am
    Thanks to Tom for contacting Jack's nephew. Interesting the family is aware of his notoriety on the internet in JFK circles.

    I imagine Tom's wasn't the first researcher phone call the family has received and I wouldn't be surprised if Jack has been outright accused of conspiracy to murder or even being the shooter in some of those calls (some people never learn you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar).  Any family member of a witness should be approached with the angle of attack that there's a lot of false rumors on the internet about their kin and their story deserves to be told straight to dispel unjust rumors.

    For example, the fact there is no picture of Jack in the Warren Commission has made some people suspicious about him for no other reason than nobody knows what he looks like.  Providing family photos of Jack would clear that up immediately. If they don't want to donate family photos to the 6th Floor Museum, they can have them scanned at Fedex Kinko's and then email them.

    Also, there's some question whether Jack had mental or perhaps hearing problems because in his testimony, he seems to answer Warren Commission questions as if he misunderstood the words in the questions. 
    Unfortunately, some people have interpreted these answers as someone trying to deceive the Commission because they're ignorant of any health or intellectual challenges Jack may have faced. Ay information the family can provide on that would help Jack in being treated more fairly among researchers. 

    Honey, brothers, not vinegar.


    Last edited by beowulf on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 7:49 am; edited 1 time in total
    greg parker
    Admin
    Posts : 5738
    Join date : 2009-08-21
    Age : 61
    Location : Orange, NSW, Australia
    View user profilehttp:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 7:02 am
    beowulf wrote:Thanks to Tom for contacting Jack's nephew. Interesting the family is aware of his notoriety on the internet in JFK circles.

    I imagine Tom's wasn't the first researcher phone call the family has received and I wouldn't be surprised if Jack has been outright accused of conspiracy to murder or even being the shooter in some of those calls (some people never learn you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar).  Any family member of a witness should be approached with the angle of attack that there's a lot of false rumors on the internet about their kin and their story deserves to be told straight to dispel unjust rumors.

    For example, the fact there is no picture of Jack in the Warren Commission has made some people suspicious about him for no other reason than nobody knows what he looks like.  Providing family photos of Jack would clear that immediately. If they don't want to donate family photos to the 6th Floor Museum, they can have it scanned at Fedex Kinko's and then email them.
    Also, there's some question whether Jack had mental or perhaps hearing problems because in his testimony, he seems to answer Warren Commission questions as if he misunderstood the words in the questions. 

    Unfortunately, some people have interpreted these answers as someone trying to deceive the Commission because they're ignorant of any health or intellectual challenges Jack may have faced. Ay information the family can provide on that would help Jack in being treated more fairly among researchers. 

    Honey, brothers, not vinegar.
    Absolutely. Well said.

    _________________
    Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
    I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
    While looking down the corridor
    Out to where the van is waiting
    I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

                Billy Bragg
    -----------------------------
     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                 Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me

    “God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
    "The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
    "You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



    https://www.thenewdisease.space
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 6:44 pm
    There are two sets of Dougherty nieces and nephews. I avoided the set that lost a borther and grew up away from Dallas.
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fAbu22qhm-M/Um4RX4jVuUI/AAAAAAAABeQ/aMdmSs9pHuI/s971/DoughertyPrema.jpg

    I also avoided them because their name is Dougherty and I wanted to telephone a niece or nephew who may never have been contacted. I did not want to get an , "oh, another one calling.....can't you people leave us alone?" Once I called back I was not lectured about calling or asked not to call again. I picked people who were most likely to be close to Jack, growing up, if he had that capacity and opportunity to develop relationships with his siblings' children. I picked a branch of the family most likely to have several pictures of Jack to chose from, people who inherited his and his mother's estates, the items you keep when you are a local relative cleaning out the home of the deceased. When they visited grandma, Jack was there.

    I am going to seek out a sibling of the nephew I called who I think was most likely closest to Jack, of I did not contact that person already. I have five in total to learn more about.
    Colin Crow
    Posts : 275
    Join date : 2013-08-03
    View user profile

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Tue 05 Nov 2013, 12:20 pm
    Could this be a candidate for JD? From a 2012 post by Steve Logan on Duncan's forum. 

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Image_zpsfcff75ce
    Stan Dane
    Posts : 3458
    Join date : 2013-09-03
    Age : 66
    View user profilehttps://prayermanleeharveyoswald.blogspot.com/

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Tue 05 Nov 2013, 1:46 pm
    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Doughe10

    Hmmm....
    greg parker
    Admin
    Posts : 5738
    Join date : 2009-08-21
    Age : 61
    Location : Orange, NSW, Australia
    View user profilehttp:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Tue 05 Nov 2013, 10:41 pm
    Truly:  And he seemed to be intelligent and smart and a hard worker. The main thing is he just worked all the time.
    I have never had any occasion to have any hard words for Jack. A few times he would get a little bit---maybe do a little something wrong, and I would mention it to him, and he would just go to pieces--not anything--but anything the rest of the day or the next day would not be right. [Deletion.] He is a great big husky fellow. I think he is 39 years old. He has never been married. He has no interest in women. He gets flustered, has a small word for it, at times. He has never had any trouble. He is a good, loyal, hard working employee. He always has been. 
    Intelligent, big, husky (huh?), emotional, easily flustered, loyal.

    _________________
    Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
    I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
    While looking down the corridor
    Out to where the van is waiting
    I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

                Billy Bragg
    -----------------------------
     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                 Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me

    “God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
    "The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
    "You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



    https://www.thenewdisease.space
    Colin Crow
    Posts : 275
    Join date : 2013-08-03
    View user profile

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 12:04 am
    To me he is a dead ringer for the photo on the left. Nose, corner of the mouth, ear, just older. Nice one Stan.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 1:31 am
    Tom,

    Have you done any work ruling Jack Dougherty out as being in any way related to Dallas Oil and Cattle millionaire Dudley Tarlton Dougherty.

    I have an aversion to geneology and family tree history as it really begins to confuse me but Dudley and his family have an interesting history in Texas and I was wondering if you had done any digging around it?

    Lee
    greg parker
    Admin
    Posts : 5738
    Join date : 2009-08-21
    Age : 61
    Location : Orange, NSW, Australia
    View user profilehttp:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 10:07 am
    Lee Farley wrote:Tom,

    Have you done any work ruling Jack Dougherty out as being in any way related to Dallas Oil and Cattle millionaire Dudley Tarlton Dougherty.

    I have an aversion to geneology and family tree history as it really begins to confuse me but Dudley and his family have an interesting history in Texas and I was wondering if you had done any digging around it?

    Lee
    Lee,

    Duds Dougherty contacted Garrison, telling him that a "Janis Taber" had information on the assassination. Garrison got Gurvich to follow it up and Gurvich duly reported "she knows nuttin', boss, nuttin' I tell ya." and that was the end of it. But most of us now know that Gurvich was a little bit suspect himself...

    Janis Taber lived in a very expensive Manhattan apartment, and I have to wonder if she wasn't related to Robert Taber, one of the FPCC founders?

    Duds himself was a failed Democrat political candidate whose ranch in Beesville played host to the likes of LBJ, Madam Nhu and Audie Murphy. Beesville is 500 miles from Dallas, and Duds had Irish and Latino heritage and was a full-on Catholic.

    _________________
    Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
    I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
    While looking down the corridor
    Out to where the van is waiting
    I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

                Billy Bragg
    -----------------------------
     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                 Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me

    “God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
    "The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
    "You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



    https://www.thenewdisease.space
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 7:37 pm
    I'm guessing the following letter is to Bud Fensterwald from Mary Ferrell.  The pages are duplicated:

    http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/Daugherty%20Dudley%20Tarleton/Item%2001.pdf

    Notice how Ferrell spells Dudley Dougherty's name as Daugherty.

    Ferrell was wrong about the dates of the arrival of Madame Nhu in Dallas.  Nhu arrived on October 23, 1963 coinciding with the General Walker visit.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 8:40 pm
    Included in the Warren de Brueys report of December 2, 1963, is a list of travelers to Mexico & Latin America in September 1963 departing by air from New Orleans.  The FBI were searching passenger lists to ascertain whether Lee Harvey Oswald was onboard any flights that departed NOLA to Mexico City on or about September 17, 18, or 19.

    The lists are contained CD75 pages 600-615.

    On pages 604-606 is a manifest of names from Eastern Airlines daily 7:55am flight to Mexico City.

    http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=608

    http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=610

    On the September 18 list is a James E. Dougherty Jr. who I am mildly interested in.
    greg parker
    Admin
    Posts : 5738
    Join date : 2009-08-21
    Age : 61
    Location : Orange, NSW, Australia
    View user profilehttp:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 9:49 pm
    Lee Farley wrote:Included in the Warren de Brueys report of December 2, 1963, is a list of travelers to Mexico & Latin America in September 1963 departing by air from New Orleans.  The FBI were searching passenger lists to ascertain whether Lee Harvey Oswald was onboard any flights that departed NOLA to Mexico City on or about September 17, 18, or 19.

    The lists are contained CD75 pages 600-615.

    On pages 604-606 is a manifest of names from Eastern Airlines daily 7:55am flight to Mexico City.

    http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=608

    http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=610

    On the September 18 list is a James E. Dougherty Jr. who I am mildly interested in.
    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 James_10

    _________________
    Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
    I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
    While looking down the corridor
    Out to where the van is waiting
    I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

                Billy Bragg
    -----------------------------
     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                 Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me

    “God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
    "The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
    "You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



    https://www.thenewdisease.space
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 9:58 pm
    Stan Dane wrote:
    Tom Scully wrote:Stan,

    An "A" to you for effort. Dougherty told the WC he "left" high school in 1937, but he did not
    say he graduated/ He also stated was 40 years of age on that date in 1964. He would have
    been 14 years old in a 1937 yearbook if he was presented as a member of the senior class.

    Page 4 of the thread, started by Greg, probably includes all the highlights of Dougherty's background. He and his parents share a gravestone and it displays his birth year as 1923.:
    http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18068&page=4 This inforrmation is also available at findagrave.com .
    Thanks for the calibration Tom.
     
    Checking the links you provided, I see that Jack's father was Redfern C. Dougherty. That name rang a bell, so I went back to the 1937 Yearbook and I found a Redfern C. Dougherty Jr. listed on the very next page. Wouldn't be surprised if this was Jack's older brother.

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 5 Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Redfer10
    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 5
    Stan,

    I believe Jack and Redfern's father was not R. C. Dougherty.  That is how the FBI wrote his name during the affidavit that Jack gave on 12/19/63 when Jack's father was allegedly present with him but according to the following link the father's actual name was R. O. Dougherty.

    In addition to Jack's brother Redfern C. Dougherty, there was a sister called Dorothy Ladeta Dougherty who was born in 1926 according to the Texas Legislative records:

    Name                                           Birthdate   Sex  Mother                          Father                               County
    ==============================================================================================================================
    Dougherty, Dorothy Ladeta            10-20-1926   F   Mary Kriese                     R O Dougherty                     Dallas

    http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/vitals/births/1926/dallb26c.txt

    Was it Jack's father with him during the FBI interview or was it his brother?  Don't know.  But I'm always wary when names are spelt wrong in certain documents.  If it was the father - how did they get the middle initial wrong?


    Last edited by Lee Farley on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 10:07 pm
    http://www.fold3.com/document/18172663/

    Tom, do you have access to a better copy of this - - or better eyes?

    Lee
    Stan Dane
    Posts : 3458
    Join date : 2013-09-03
    Age : 66
    View user profilehttps://prayermanleeharveyoswald.blogspot.com/

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Thu 07 Nov 2013, 4:27 am
    Lee Farley wrote:Stan,

    I believe Jack and Redfern's father was not R. C. Dougherty.  That is how the FBI wrote his name during the affidavit that Jack gave on 12/19/63 when Jack's father was allegedly present with him but according to the following link the father's actual name was R. O. Dougherty.

    In addition to Jack's brother Redfern C. Dougherty, there was a sister called Dorothy Ladeta Dougherty who was born in 1926 according to the Texas Legislative records:

    Name                                           Birthdate   Sex  Mother                          Father                               County
    ==============================================================================================================================
    Dougherty, Dorothy Ladeta            10-20-1926   F   Mary Kriese                     R O Dougherty                     Dallas

    http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/vitals/births/1926/dallb26c.txt

    Was it Jack's father with him during the FBI interview or was it his brother?  Don't know.  But I'm always wary when names are spelt wrong in certain documents.  If it was the father - how did they get the middle initial wrong?
    Lee:

    If he was Redfern O, then his family spelled his name wrong on his tombstone in Calvary Hill Cemetery, Dallas TX:

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Doughe11

    But who knows. Spelling anomalies seem to show up a lot with this family.
     
    PS: My father was born in 1920, but his birth certificate shows a 1 typed through the 0 (192Φ). My grandmother shrugged it off saying it was 1920 and the birth order/certificates of his siblings showed this had to be true. It never became an issue for the remainder of his life, but it just goes to show that even official documents can get screwed up.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Thu 07 Nov 2013, 5:17 am
    Stan Dane wrote:
    Lee Farley wrote:Stan,

    I believe Jack and Redfern's father was not R. C. Dougherty.  That is how the FBI wrote his name during the affidavit that Jack gave on 12/19/63 when Jack's father was allegedly present with him but according to the following link the father's actual name was R. O. Dougherty.

    In addition to Jack's brother Redfern C. Dougherty, there was a sister called Dorothy Ladeta Dougherty who was born in 1926 according to the Texas Legislative records:

    Name                                           Birthdate   Sex  Mother                          Father                               County
    ==============================================================================================================================
    Dougherty, Dorothy Ladeta            10-20-1926   F   Mary Kriese                     R O Dougherty                     Dallas

    http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/vitals/births/1926/dallb26c.txt

    Was it Jack's father with him during the FBI interview or was it his brother?  Don't know.  But I'm always wary when names are spelt wrong in certain documents.  If it was the father - how did they get the middle initial wrong?
    Lee:

    If he was Redfern O, then his family spelled his name wrong on his tombstone in Calvary Hill Cemetery, Dallas TX:

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Doughe11

    But who knows. Spelling anomalies seem to show up a lot with this family.
     
    PS: My father was born in 1920, but his birth certificate shows a 1 typed through the 0 (192Φ). My grandmother shrugged it off saying it was 1920 and the birth order/certificates of his siblings showed this had to be true. It never became an issue for the remainder of his life, but it just goes to show that even official documents can get screwed up.
    Very true, Stan.

    Trying hard to find anomalies often results in overlooking simple stuff that is staring you in the face.  I've looked at the picture of that tombstone 1000 times.

    If Shelley and Truly have backgrounds that are suspect at best then I still level suspicion at Jack E. Dougherty and his background given he worked with the other two for a long, long time.  I think I'm trying too hard trying to find any clue that may shine some light on this so may take a break from old Jack but the photos of Redfern Dougherty and Jack Daugherty from the yearbook that Tom posted have me very perplexed.

    One day all of this will fall into place for us.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Fri 08 Nov 2013, 2:40 pm
    Lee Farley wrote:http://www.fold3.com/document/18172663/

    Tom, do you have access to a better copy of this - - or better eyes?

    Lee
    Lee,

    An apology for several delayed responses. Daughter Dorothy's birth cert. image.:
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UxD6g5icVTY/UnwZ9RtvWeI/AAAAAAAABhI/axnINEk4Tu8/s1024/DorothyBorthCert.jpg
    All things considered, I think it is an elaborate "C" and not an "O". BTW, I had better tread carefully here. The relation I telephoned
    recently was one of Dorothy's sons.

    Here is an image of Redfern's 1978 Death Cert.:
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OawDxge6f7Y/UnwaCBVb45I/AAAAAAAABhQ/mRu2iY9vgI0/s912/RedfernCdeathCert.jpg
    The "C" is type written.

    As far as Dudley Tarlton Dougherty, I embarked on a search and immediately came upon his sister's obit.:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/14/classified/paid-notice-deaths-king-may-tarlton-topsy-dougherty.html
    ...quickly leading to her daughter's obit.
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9402E6DD123AF932A25750C0A96F9C8B63
    Her daughter, Dudley's niece, was married to a guy from St. Louis and they lived on Juptier Island. His name is Peter S. Pauley, so that
    was intriguing as well. The Bushes and Pryror Reeds are inseparable. Permelia Pryor Reed's father, Samuel was from St. Louis. She personally signed off on all prospective buyers of Jupiter Island property. Pauley was not related to Edwin, but to an architect, Walter E Pauley, who partnered with Charles Eames. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_and_Ray_Eames

    It concerns me how little control I actually have in avoiding tangents. I will get back to Dudley... but Margeson and other Rochester natives are on the plate.


    http://www.adst.org/OH%20TOCs/Wrampelmeier,%20Brooks.toc.pdf
    BROOKS WRAMPELMEIER
    Interviewed by: Charles Stuart Kennedy
    Initial interview date: March 22, 2000


    ........When the Kennedy Administration
    came in, Mill's pro forma resignation was accepted with no other explanation. There
    wasn’t any “we have something else in mind for you.” It was just “please go in and get
    agrément for this fellow Macomber,” who had been the Assistant Secretary for
    Congressional Affair in the Eisenhower Administration. President Kennedy apparently
    liked Macomber but wanted to replace him with a congressman from Arkansas who had
    lost his seat. Mills was later offered the embassy in Uruguay but he declined and retired
    from the Foreign Service.
    Q: Well, Macomber had also been a favorite of Rooney’s and Rooney was the
    appropriations man for the department of state.
    WRAMPELMEIER: Well, Macomber was brought into State by John Foster Dulles. His
    family and the Dulles family came from Rochester. Macomber came out in January 1961,
    a bachelor just 40 years old. Mills was in his sixties. I think the idea was that having an
    ambassador in Amman closer in age to King Hussein would be an advantage. The British
    also sent a relatively young ambassador named John Henniker-Major. So you had two
    relatively young ambassadors with a king who was at that time in his late 20s or early
    30s......
    9K116
    Posts : 75
    Join date : 2010-04-08
    Location : Riga, Latvija
    View user profile

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:48 pm
    Sorry for interrupting this genealogy subtopic, but I got another question regarding JED.

    He (JED) told to WC that about the time of assassination he went to the 6th floor `to get some stock`. Now I wonder:
    1. Did WC try to specify, what kind of `stock` and why JED was looking for? Why `geting some stock` was so urgent?
    2. Maybe this is especially my problem since English is only my third language, but is it so that words `some stock` sound very inconcrete?
    Stan Dane
    Posts : 3458
    Join date : 2013-09-03
    Age : 66
    View user profilehttps://prayermanleeharveyoswald.blogspot.com/

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Mon 25 Nov 2013, 8:29 am
    greg parker wrote:Tom's find is still important.

    Brother Redfern had 3 years in ROTC's Crack Company and attended ROTC Camp Dallas 2 years running. 

    Apart from being a Dallas ROTC program, I have no idea what "Crack Company" was, but I don't think it was a secret society of coke snorters. Camp Dallas was a month long ROTC camp. 

    During the Cold War, the ROTC trained both future Military Intelligence Officers and Army Security Agency officers. A notable example is Ed Lansdale.  

    Jack does not appear to have been in the ROTC - but did spend his army stint at an Indiana base where all the state-of-the-art German aircraft were brought for reverse engineering.  

    In 1972, Redfern Dougherty, Jr was made Manager of General Accounting for the Transcontinental Gas Pipe Line Corp based in Houston.  http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/3443065
    Mr. Tom Scully:
     
    Could you please use your genealogy skills and tools to check into the background of Redfern C. Dougherty Jr., brother of Jack E. Dougherty? What he did, where he lived and worked, who he associated with, etc.?
     
    I can't shake the likeness of the guy in the William Allen "Bottle Photo" to these early pictures of Redfern Jr.

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Three_10

    If this guy was Redfern Jr., what was he doing in front of the TSBD building right after the assassination?
     
    It may well be another fruitless tangent, but who knows.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    on Mon 03 Mar 2014, 2:00 am
    I recently took the opportunity to e-mail Melvin Eisenberg, regarding his memo "Identity of Assassin", which I included as an attachment. I just received a reply, which said essentially that too much time has passed for him to remember what was on his mind in 1964. He doesn't even remember Jack Dougherty. He's 79 and still teaches law and so I had hopes he'd have memories of serving on the Warren Commission.

    My questions were:

    - Do you recall why you titled the memo so?

    - The memo outlined your suspicions of TSBD employee Jack Dougherty. Yet when Dougherty was deposed by Joseph Ball a month later, not a single one of your concerns were addressed. What was your reaction?

    - Dougherty admitted in his November 22 police affidavit, and in his testimony, that he was on the sixth floor shortly before the assassination. Yet he was never once asked what he witnessed up there. Any comments?

    - Roy Truly described Dougherty as "mentally retarded" during his Secret Service interview, adding that he "has been especially confused since the assassination." It may interest you (it came out in 2011) that Truly also described a black employee near the base of the elevators as "slightly retarded" when he ran to the shaft with motorcycle officer Marrion Baker. Doesn't it seem likely that Truly's "retarded" characterization was his standard method of deflecting inquiries to employees who may have been involved in the assassination?

    - Despite Truly yelling up the shaft and ringing the service bell, the freight elevators remained hung up on the 5th floor. Yet when Truly and Baker had climbed the stairs to the 5th, they found that the west freight elevator was no longer there. And it wasn't until Dougherty's April 8th testimony- 4 1/2 months after the assassination- that he finally admitted, with some difficulty, that he was the one who had brought the west freight elevator downstairs. Did you have any suspicions as to his delay in coming forward with this information, i.e. that he was hoping to keep it a secret?
    Sponsored content

    Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 3 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

    Back to top
    Permissions in this forum:
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum