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No Shots Fired From The TSBD

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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Mick Purdy on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 11:40 am

Deleted: Off topic


Last edited by Mick Purdy on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Stan Dane on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 7:01 am

While working with an image of the front of the TSBD for a trailer I'm making, it struck me for the 10,000th time how odd it was that the "snipers nest" was on the extreme east end of the building seeing how the kill shots occurred when the limousine was moving away from that location. You know, why pass up a perfect shooting configuration with the motorcade approaching you on Houston, because if you're going to shoot the president from that spot, you do it as he approaches you. Stuff that everyone's discussed countless times.

But the east end of sixth floor is the perfect spot if someone is shooting from the Dal-Tex building AND you have a patsy all set up and ready to blame who's in the TSBD and you want to say he done it.

I'm convinced at least one shot came from the rear. The Dal-Tex building fits the bill. Like they have Oswald doing their version of "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap" as they have him running down from the sixth to the second floor in a theoretically possible 90 seconds, the rear head shot coming from the Dal-Tex is close enough to the sixth floor window to make it theoretically possible that the shots could have been fired from there. Close enough for government work.

But, just as Oswald didn't run down from the sixth floor to the second, the kill shots weren't fired from the sixth floor east window.

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Stan shows why ROKC is heads above the rest

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 8:40 pm

Stan Dane wrote:While working with an image of the front of the TSBD for a trailer I'm making, it struck me for the 10,000th time how odd it was that the "snipers nest" was on the extreme east end of the building seeing how the kill shots occurred when the limousine was moving away from that location.
precisely why you would shoot from a west window if you are going for a rear head wound.

You know, why pass up a perfect shooting configuration with the motorcade approaching you on Houston, because if you're going to shoot the president from that spot, you do it as he approaches you. Stuff that everyone's discussed countless times.

agreed and where could the limo go but turn down Elm, and not at high speed.
Limo is sitting duck coming down Houston from the 'Snipers Lair'


But the east end of sixth floor is the perfect spot if someone is shooting from the Dal-Tex building AND you have a patsy all set up and ready to blame who's in the TSBD and you want to say he done it.

not to shoot coming down Houston, but to shoot in line with what is a planned and planted location... brilliant!

I'm convinced at least one shot came from the rear. The Dal-Tex building fits the bill. Like they have Oswald doing their version of "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap" as they have him running down from the sixth to the second floor in a theoretically possible 90 seconds, the rear head shot coming from the Dal-Tex is close enough to the sixth floor window to make it theoretically possible that the shots could have been fired from there. Close enough for government work.

That rifle could have been the same as claimed to do all the shooting, a Manlicher Carcano.
Could be the same one found later in the book bins ...

Just as Oswald didn't run down from the sixth floor to the second, the kill shots weren't fired from the sixth floor east window.

Agreed!
Jesse Curry, the retired police chief, says of Oswald: “I think he might have been influenced by somebody. I have never been completely satisfied that there was not somebody behind the brick wall firing that shot.”


The wall is near the Depository Building, where Oswald allegedly fired from the sixth floor. Curry was in the lead car of the Kennedy motorcade. One of his first orders was to check out people reported seen on top of a railroad trestle across the Triple Underpass that the parade was approaching when the shots sounded. Henry Wade, who has been Dallas County district attorney for more than 20 years, is one of those who believe Oswald either was incited to kill Kennedy or had help. ‘ I don’t think Lee Harvey Oswald suddenly woke up one morning and decided all by himself to kill the President,” he said. “It is a gut feeling. I was in the room with him about five minutes and he never said anything. I was going to spend Sunday evening interviewing him but, as it turned out, I never got the chance.” Wade got a murder conviction against Jack Ruby, who shot Oswald two days after the assassination, and the jury ordered the death penalty, but the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals reversed conviction and sentence. Ruby died in 1967, technically an innocent man, although a large portion of the coutry saw him shoot on television.

“I don't think there is any question that Oswald did the shooting,” Wade said,
“But I’ve always felt he had to have encouragement or someone to discuss it with him.”

Cheers, Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by barto on Thu 23 Mar 2017, 10:22 pm


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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Mick Purdy on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 9:23 am

Mr. BALL. Norman said what?  

Mr. WILLIAMS. 
He said it came directly 
over our heads. "I can 
even hear the shell 
being ejected from 
the gun hitting the 
floor." But I did not 
hear the shell being 
ejected from the gun, 
probably because I 
wasn't paying 
attention.

͟

He had to be told it was from overhead by Norman and in the TSBD 
In the Depository and From the floor above, directly over our 
heads.

 
TSBD- Really? 

Mr. WILLIAMS. 
Well, 
the first shot-I really 
did not pay any 
attention
 to it, 
because I did not 
know what was 
happening.
 The 
second shot, it 
sounded like it was 
right in the building, 
the second and third 
shot. And it sounded-
it even shook the 
building, the side we 
were on cement fell 
on my head.


 Kinda vague for being a few feet from 
supposed shots origination. 
A first shot that would be more downward towards his location.

Never says the later two where from above him just that they were "SOUNDED LIKE THEY WERE RIGHT IN THE BUILDING"

Why not say they were from the building then, why the semantics.
Why? Because there was no shots from above them.

Near. Yes. 
Above... Not a chance.

Rifle exploding feet from your ear, but you don't pay it any attention... please, spare me.

The three stooges made better witnesses, but in their bungling style they give away the truth.

Cheers, Ed


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 Re: "Prayer Man" on the Education Forum

 by Ed. Ledoux Today at 9:55 am

[size=20][size=16]Its all a nice fairy tale but any reasonable person would ask fairly straight forward questions about their supposedly knowing a killer is mere feet above them, and what they did with this information.

Seems first thing they did was checked the killers accuracy.

Made a bee line to the West windows,
to see if they caught the killer in the knoll area...
but what about the killer above? 
Forget about it.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=234


Then they decide to go downstairs.
They SEE NO ONE on the stairs. (nice question counselor )

And that's it. Hmmm five minutes later they go downstairs.,

to find a police man? Nah

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317&relPageId=696

he minces words, "he believes the floor above me"
not very convincing. 



Harold Norman Is not supported in

his claims by the other two on 6th. 


[/size]

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 Re: "Prayer Man" on the Education Forum

 by Ed. Ledoux Today at 10:17 am

Norman hears shots that he tells the others they are from "above" 

Yet here Norman describes exactly what the president is doing, slumping.

And he continues to watch till he says he couldn't see.

Not real worried about the shooter, or that he could possibly come crashing through the unfinished old weak floor, or the Secret Service might return fire in their direction, nah not a worry, keep watching!! and then sprint for the West windows to see where the shot was blowing Kennedy's head off came from... 
nope it was from above, I'm thoroughly convinced now  
  (the infamous double eye roll, please don't try at home) 


Now I understand you might try and fudge the two shots are from here or think there was two shots here and one shot there. Fair enough.
But those are directions  
not origin.

No bullet originated its flight from the TSBD snipers nest or any other window in the building.

Witnesses and origin. (my notes throughout)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ia0cn1jm85dmlrf/tsbdWitness.docx?dl=0

"Above" is comical
Cheers, Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by barto on Sat 13 May 2017, 5:05 pm

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/540034492/Those-who-rode-by-Kennedy-remember.html

Couch remembers someone shouting: "Look at the window — there's the rifle!" By the time the third shot rang out, Couch had spotted about eight inches of the rifle protruding from the sixth-floor window, and being pulled back in. He says he never saw a face, though some witnesses did.
Moments later, Couch and his fellow passengers scrambled out of the car to descend on the madness of Dealey Plaza.
"'God, don't let them do this!' I screamed. 'They can't kill the president!' And I'm running like crazy. In the plaza, it's mass confusion, total mayhem." So much so that the events began to feel overwhelm his instincts as a photographer.
"I didn't film the window," he said. "It was happening too fast. I did raise my camera to take black and white footage of a policeman pulling his pistol and people falling, which everyone has seen for years. But then I stopped filming. Why? Mercy, goodness, gracious, I don't know. When I ran back, I didn't film anything. I guess I was just too dazed to figure out what was going on. So nothing was filmed until I got to Parkland Hospital, where I saw Jackie getting into a hearse. So I filmed the hearse and people crying all over the place."
For him, the Kennedy assassination continues to be "a devastating marker." It was, he contends, the opening of a 1960s Pandora's box, leading to Vietnam and two more assassinations, which claimed the lives of civil rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and the president's brother Robert F. Kennedy, in 1968.

"That little piece of metal sticking out the window started it all," said Couch, who teaches at Tyndale Theological Seminary in Fort Worth and who believes in the prophecies from the Book of Revelations.
"I count that as the change in America, from that point forward," he says. "But for me, it cuts even deeper. The Bible speaks of the end of days. So I see it as the beginning piece of the train of the last days.
"And I was there when it happened."

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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 14 May 2017, 8:51 am

Thanks for that reminder Bart,

Couch like Jackson had to downplay their tall tales once films and photos were shown with no metal objects protruding from any window.
Why did it take anyone, cops, witnesses, journalists, news reporter, so long to find where what Couch claims was obvious as to the shooters location.
Just like Baker and Truly were clueless so seems all these so called newsmen whom got zip about a shooting from the TSBD till it was broadcast via police radio for all to hear.
So I don't trust the lot whom had ample opportunity to report, write, photograph, film and interview the TSBD and employees but didn't
Why?
Because they had no reason to.
They witnessed no such objects in windows, no shots or shooter from the building.

This explains the absence of any evidence of TSBD involvement till a radio report

I think when you look at what Euins did in the films and photos that do not show Euins behind the concrete pillar, do show him wandering the car park, his being placed on a three wheeler and driven to the Houston Street intersection, where Euins is then seen showing the police man around the corner of the TSBD and pointing down towards the loading dock or end of Houston St.
Doesn't make sense.
If cops had a witness, they would get location of shooter,
Then have other cops go to that location to see if shooter is still there. That did not happen.

So to believe Couch or Bob Jackson or even a Hugh Aynesworth, or Dan Rather is to accept the unacceptable.
Faked news from those with Brian Williams disease is par for the JFK course.

Cheers, Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 15 May 2017, 3:02 pm

IMO this is the part where fact meets twilight zone
There is nothing showing Baker's quick entry to the TSBD.
In fact there is evidence Baker dashed past the entrance.
If Baker made a later entry, what would it be?
Was it due to speaking with a "witness", but if he and or Truly spoke to any witnesses and then went in the TSBD to go where...?
It sure as hell wasn't the sixth floor southeast window.
So even with a late entry there is only a bird to blame, and I for one have seen zero birds in all the films and photos.
Pigeon poop on the pigeon idea. It is garbage.


There was as much reason to search the Dal Tex as there was the TSBD.
In fact the characters whom were in the DT were suspicious enough to warrant a search.

And again Oswald was let go as he paid for the soda. No crime of unlawful vending applied.
No shots from the building and Oswald being in the building is a rock solid alibi or it should have been.
Well not in Texas folks. Being where nothing happened seemed to be Oswald's downfall.

Thanks to Barto for the page!
Cheers, Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by barto on Mon 15 May 2017, 6:22 pm

Correct Ed, this point has been put forward before. Baker was never 100% certain the shots came from the TSBD, they could have been from DalTex as much as he could tell.
And this is also why he veered to the right in Darnell.

Meanwhile Truly was yapping w Brennan.........

I tell you a pet theory of mine, a lot of the so called statements were made up after they saw themselves in Darnell....
Storming up those stairs.....my arse.

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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 16 May 2017, 4:14 am

Right so Baker goes to the intersection with intent to speak to another officer to see what they, JM Smith, WE Barnett and EL Smith and the others at the corner witnessed.
Sounds reasonable.
They will claim the shots came from down Elm Street.
JM Smith is already gone to search bushes and he had his back to the TSBD, did not see or hear anyone shooting from there.
And should not have been confused by echoes as he would know the sound came from behind him, low, and as he says toward to railyard
Not up above him..
EL Smith is directly in front of Daltex. He was standing facing TSBD.  WE Barnett makes no call or move to cover windows of TSBD from his location at the intersection.
EL makes no move towards the TSBD, does not call in that location, nothing.
But Baker might have run to EL Smith or Barnett for that matter to ask or see what happened
Perhaps Baker made a run to Daltex or the other officers station at the Houston Elm intersection only to be steered away by Truly.

Baker then assumes the shots were from railyards takes off to scale mount Depository, where he plants his flag atop it.
I can't imagine everyone seeing police and the shooting would not immediately, and I mean IMMEDIATELY tell a cop standing a few feet away what they had supposedly witnessed.

It does not happen.
What does happen is everyone, including the hysterical lady points to lower end of Elm, Fence, Pergola, bushes, railroad yard, carpark... not a one points up at sixth floor and yells assassin or gun!!!!!
Give me a break. I can suspended belief for only so long before reality overcomes it.
No shots were fired from the TSBD.

I like your pet theory.

My theory of the radio report and subsequent piling on by everyone within earshot of a police car/motor's radio has to compliment yours.

Cheers, Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 21 May 2017, 10:26 am

Pulitzer Prize winner Bob Jackson was working for the Dallas Times Herald when he took his famous photograph of Ruby shooting Oswald exactly at the right second.

But an utter failure to capture even ONE of three shots from the window he knew had an assassin in it...


He wasn’t able to develop the film until two hours after the shooting, but Jackson said he knew he had a good shot.
However, he was not so lucky when he missed a photograph opportunity two days before, riding seven cars behind Kennedy in the motorcade. As the open convertible Jackson was riding in turned on to Houston street, he heard three shots and looked directly ahead of him at the Texas School Book Depository. In the sixth floor window he said he saw a rifle.

Hughes film, Life, and ITEK all ultimately characterize Bob as a liar.
Nothing was in the window.


Jackson had just emptied his film on his long-lense camera five minutes before, to throw to a reporter. Although the lack of film in the camera in his lap kept him from possibly capturing historical evidence, Jackson says he doesn’t think he could have reacted quickly enough to get the photo even if he had film.

Nope too busy bragging to Malcolm Couch that you had just seen a rifle. Then Malcolm catches Brian Williams disease like Bob had... Bob said Mal is a liar as the rifle was withdrawn before he could tell Malcolm.,,
Sheesh what a cluster of O'Reilly type liars.


Jackson emphasized that he heard three shots that afternoon because the car he was in was out of the “echo chamber” that some say was created by the tall buildings surrounding Dealey Plaza.

That is some word salad or word salsa, as salsa is more liked.
What ever makes Bob more liked...

Forget reporting and truth, we know they turned on JFK the second a bullet whizzed by. Journalistic Integrity died with Kennedy.
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Mick Purdy on Sun 21 May 2017, 12:04 pm

Quite so Ed. There were many photographic opportunities from that weekend which were "missed" by so called pro newsmen.

You've made a sound case for no shots from the TSBD. It's hard to argue the point after reading this thread. Jackson is just another liar, attention seeking bottom feeder in my book. Harsh but fair!

On the flip side I've always suspected tha Ike Altgens should have snapped a shot of JFK's brains being splattered across the Limo. His 180 degree rotation from Altgen 6 to Altgen 7 of a subject travelling less than 12 mph should have allowed him to capture the critical moment. He was a mere 6 feet or so from Kennedy as he passed directly in front of him. The idea that he froze is imo ludicrous. Nope he chose that spot for good reason -  a clear unobstructed view of Kennedy virtually a top of the vehicle as it passed. And what he freezes, doesn't take the shot he set out to snap.

Reiland in the TT, same same. Filter malarkey. 

Oh it's tiring. Love this thread Ed.
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 21 May 2017, 12:59 pm

Thanks Mick!

I feel its the antithesis to Prayer Man.

Answers that inevitably asked

Proves itself

Can not seriously be argued against.

Solid logical without flaw.

No Shots Fired From TSBD is a landmark, a sign post.
Go from here he said.
Dont look back.

Cheers,
Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by steely dan on Sun 21 May 2017, 1:26 pm

Ties in nicely with PM, Ed. Truly is a Carney barker whose job is to make sure nobody misses the tent with the "exhibits".
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 21 May 2017, 1:37 pm

Great point about Altgens 7 btw.

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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 21 May 2017, 2:33 pm

steely dan wrote:Ties in nicely with PM, Ed. Truly is a Carney barker whose job is to make sure nobody misses the tent with the "exhibits".

Mutually supportive threads like PM and NSF are what make ROKC the place to be.

Thanks Steely
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 21 May 2017, 3:33 pm

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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 21 May 2017, 5:37 pm

Here is the claim by Frontline.
Master magicians they are they say second shooter doesn't exist in Bronson footage.

Wait where is a first shooter in Bronson. They imply a first shooter.
Bronson film doesn't support any movement.
They use this to discount conspiracy. Its just grain noise. Okay.

@1:50
https://wn.com/jfk_assassination_the_dillard_photos_of_the_texas_school_book_depository_building

Claim is there is movement in the Frontline study of Hughes.

Right only Bronson gets the grain noise removed before analysis...
so Hughes could not have grain noise?


"Most haunting of these is Robert Hughes' home movie of President Kennedy's limousine approaching the Texas School Book Depository a few seconds before the shooting. The open sixth-floor window with the stacked boxes of the sniper's perch is plainly visible.
Those with a slow-motion DVR and a large television can see a human silhouette - presumably Lee Harvey Oswald - move stealthily above the window frame waiting for the focus of the crowd and police to move west toward the triple overpass.
"When the car is going down [Houston] street, that window is in the frame of the shot," says filmmaker Tom Jennings, executive producer of The Lost JFK Tapes: The Assassination. "I saw what looks to me like someone moving up there, and I believe it is Lee Harvey Oswald."
In 1964, the FBI examined the Hughes film and was unable to find a clear image in the window. But later technological improvements refined the frames.
"A 1993 computer enhancement of the original film for a PBS/Frontline program, Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald?, found a moving object in the window as President Kennedy's car passed underneath," says Gary Mack, curator of the Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza. "The movement suggests an object turning from its left to its right or right to left as one looks at the film. The Sixth Floor Museum acquired the original Hughes film in 2002 and video blowups of the window seem to confirm the PBS/Frontline findings."


Seven seconds before first shot is something that they claim is movement.

Then............. crickets

NADA.

Does Frontline have something with gaseous explosions, sparks, flame, an explosion, booming thunder, or an high powered rifle shot from the window?
A man frantically working a rifle which is ejecting three shells in eight seconds? 
No?
How about a rifle, with a scope, and a hand to hold it up, and out, and a head, balding, okay just the barrel, all four inches.
Frontline proffer up any of the above in any of the TSBD windows.
NO?
Didn't think so.

Cheers, Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by barto on Sun 21 May 2017, 8:59 pm

And I then walked on out the front door and asked, "Did anyone here see anything?"
And someone pointed to Mr. Brennan.
Mr. STERN - What was your purpose in asking for a list of the employees of the building?
Mr. SORRELS - Because I knew that they would have to be interviewed. I was trying to establish at that time without any delay, who all was in that building or was employed there, because I knew they would have to be talked to later.
In other words, I was looking for someone that saw something.
Mr. STERN - You were looking for potential witnesses?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN - And at that time you had no basis for suspecting any employee might be involved one way or the other?
Mr. SORRELS - No, sir; and I did not know at that time that the shots came from the building.
When I was--when Mr. Brennan was pointed out to me, I went up and told him who I was and asked him if he saw anything. And he told me what he had seen. And, at that time, that is the first time that I knew definitely that any shots had come from the building.
Mr. STERN - Now, what precisely did Mr. Brennan tell you?
Mr. SORRELS - Mr. Brennan said that he was standing across the street, watching the parade, and that he, of course, was looking in the direction where the President was, and he heard a sound which he thought at first was a backfire of an automobile. And that shortly afterwards there was another sound, and that he thought that somebody might be throwing firecrackers out of the building.
And he glanced up to the building, and that he saw a man at the window on the right-hand side, the second floor from the top.
And he said, "I could see the man taking deliberate aim and saw him fire the third shot," and said then he just pulled the rifle back in and moved back from the window, just as unconcerned as could be.
Mr. STERN - How did you happen to talk to Mr. Brennan?
Mr. SORRELS - I asked--I don't know who, someone there "Is there anyone here that saw anything?" And someone said, "That man over there."
He was out in front of the building and I went right to him.
Mr. STERN - Did Mr. Brennan tell you anything else?
Mr. SORRELS - I asked him whether or not he thought he could identify the person that he saw, and he, of course, gave me a description of him, said that he appeared to be a slender man, he had on what appeared to be a light jacket or shirt or something to that effect, and that he thought he could identify him--said he was slender build. Because I was definitely interested in someone that had seen something that could give us some definite information.
And I also asked if he had seen anybody else, and he pointed to a young colored boy there, by the name of Euins. And I got him and Mr. Brennan, and I took them over to the sheriff's office where we could get statements from them.
Mr. STERN - What was the name of that young man?
Mr. SORRELS - Euins, I believe it is, or pretty close to that.
Mr. STERN - Did you interview Mr. Euins?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes, sir; I did. And he also said that he had heard the noise there, and that he had looked up and saw the man at the window with the rifle, and I asked him if he could identify the person, and he said, no, he couldn't, he said he couldn't tell whether he was colored or white.
Mr. STERN - Do you remember anything unusual about the way Mr. Brennan was dressed?
Mr. SORRELS - He was dressed as a workman, or a laborer, and he had on a hard hat.
Mr. STERN - Construction hat?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN - Did Mr. Brennan tell you anything else about anything else he had observed at that time?
Mr. SORRELS - I can't recall any specific thing.
Mr. STERN - Did he mention seeing any other person or persons in the windows of the Book Depository Building?
Mr. SORRELS - I don't recall whether he did or did not.
Mr. STERN - Did he say anything about observing anyone leave the Book Depository Building hurriedly after the shooting?
Mr. SORRELS - No, sir.
Mr. STERN - Did he point out to you precisely the window from which he said he saw the shot fired, the window in which he saw the sniper?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN - Where was that window in relation to the windows at which you saw several Negro men as you drove on Houston Street?
Mr. SORRELS - It was one floor above and a little bit to the right, as I recall it.
Mr. STERN - Can you give us these directions in terms of compass points?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes. That would be on the east side of the building.
Mr. STERN - So the window that Mr. Brennan pointed out to you was on the extreme east side?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN - And the window or windows at which you had observed several Negro men was more to the west?
Mr. SORRELS - A little bit more to the west--not very much--but to the west, on the floor below.
Mr. STERN - Are you certain in your mind about the floor below?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes, I am.
Mr. STERN - Is there any particular reason for that? You said before that you essentially glanced at the building, and didn't have very long to observe it, and you saw these men at the window.
What makes you certain about placing the men on any particular floor?
Mr. SORRELS - Well, because I remember that they were not near the top---I can just remember that--it seemed to me like two floors down from the top, as I recall having seen them. And, of course, when I got back to the building down there, there were windows open on the floor below at the place where I recall having seen the colored men.
Mr. STERN - So it was the open window afterwards that helped you recall?
Mr. SORRELS - That is right.
Mr. STERN - And are you certain that those were the same open windows?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes, I think they were. I don't have any reason to think otherwise.
Mr. STERN - Then you accompanied Brennan and Euins where?
Mr. SORRELS - To the sheriff's office, which was right across the street from the Book Depository.
Mr. STERN - Did you have any further conversation withe them on the way over there?
Mr. SORRELS - Oh, yes; we discussed--I was talking to him on the way over there about what they saw and observed, and told them we would like to come in there where we could get their statements down in writing.
Mr. STERN - Did they tell you anything that you have not already told us?
Mr. SORRELS - Not that I recall.
The little colored boy mentioned he was there with another colored boy that ran off when this thing happened--at the first shot this boy ran off. He said he stayed there, but the other boy ran off. I didn't make any effort to get touch with him, because he apparently saw nothing.
Mr. STERN - Then you took them into the sheriff's office?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN - What was going on in the sheriff's office?
Mr. SORRELS - At that time one of the deputy sheriffs was in the interrogation room taking a statement from some witness there. And I did not want to just stay there and wait too long, so I asked him would he also write up the statements on it--Mr. Brennan and the colored boy. And I then started out in the hall of the sheriff's office there with the idea of going back to see if I could locate other witnesses, when Chief Deputy Sheriff Mr. Allan Sweatt told me there was another witness across the hallway, near Mr. Sweatt's office he is the polygraph operator there, and his office is not in the same area as the sheriff's office but across the hall--that there was an FBI agent taking. a statement over there from a person.
So I accompanied him over there and hadn't been in there but just a few minutes until Mr. Sweat came and called me out and says "Forrest, there are some people here I think you ought to talk to."
Mr. STERN - Whose statement was being taken by the FBI?
Mr. SORRELS - I don't recall. And, at that time----
Mr. STERN - Do you recall what their statement was--what their testimony was?
Mr. SORRELS - No, I don't, because I wasn't in there but just a very short time. And this FBI agent was questioning about what they had seen and so forth. I don't recall--it was being taken down at the time.
So I went out, and they had Mr. and Mrs. Arnold there. And Mr. Arnold, a young man, and his wife, very young, said that they were standing on the side of the street on Houston Street, there by the courthouse building, and that they--this is prior to the time of the arrival of the President there, some 20 to 25 minutes beforehand, he said.
Mr. STERN - This is the east side?
Mr. SORRELS - That would be the east side of Houston Street.
Mr. STERN - Are you certain about the name of this couple? I believe you said Arnold.
Mr. SORRELS - Well----
Mr. STERN - Could that have been his first name?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes, that could have been his first name.
Mr. STERN - Can you recall his second name?
Mr. SORRELS - I would know it if I heard it.
Mr. STERN - Could it have been Roland?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes, Roland is right.
Mr. STERN - What did they tell you?
Mr. SORRELS - He said that they were standing there waiting for the President to come by, and they were talking about security. And he said that right after that, that he looked up at this building over there, which is the Book Depository, and that there were a couple of windows open towards the west side, and that he saw a man standing in there with what appeared to be a rifle with a telescopic sight.
Mr. STERN - Towards the west side?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes--two windows towards the west side.
And that he remarked to his wife, "I guess that is a Secret Service man."
And I asked her if she saw it, and she said, no, that she had left her glasses home, and she is nearsighted, and she could not see him. And, of course, I asked him the description of the man. I asked him "How could you determine what made you think it had a telescopic sight on it?"
He said, "Well, it seemed like it was wider on the light background."
I said, "How was he holding it?"
He said, port arms--he was standing several feet back away from the window. And I asked him, "Could you identify that man?"
He said, "No, I could not."
Mr. STERN - Did Mrs. Roland confirm that he had discussed this with her?
Mr. SORRELS - She confirmed the conversation, but she said she could not see anything, because she didn't have her glasses.
Mr. STERN - Did Mr. Roland tell you he had seen anyone else in the windows of the Book Depository Building?
Mr. SORRELS - I don't recall that he did. I don't recall that at all. He may have, but I don't recall that.
Mr. STERN - Did he mention anyone on the sixth floor, and particularly on the extreme east side of the sixth floor?
Mr. SORRELS - No, I don't recall that he mentioned anyone there.
Mr. STERN - What was your impression of what he told you?
Mr. SORRELS - Well, of course, the thing that hit me first thing is why--he was right there by the sheriff's office, if he had just gone in there and said, "Look, I saw a man with a rifle over there."
I said, "Why didn't you say something to somebody about it?"
He said, "I just thought he was a Secret Service man."
And at that time he appeared to be, as far as I was concerned, truthful about the matter.
Mr. STERN - You didn't have any reason to doubt him?
Mr. SORRELS - No.
Mr. STERN - And would the same be true of what Mr. Brennan told you, and Euins?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN - Did you look towards the window that Roland had pointed out from the spot at which he said he was standing, to see whether it was possible to observe from there someone standing several feet back from the window? Did you have occasion to check that?

Mr. SORRELS - Well, no, not specifically.
Later on I heard that he had--I believe in his statement that he wrote up down there at the sheriff's office, something about 15 feet back. And I thought to myself, well, I don't think you could see anybody that far back.
Mr. STERN - But he didn't tell you that?
Mr. SORRELS - No, he just said he was standing back of the window there, just kind of looking around there. He said after he saw him there, he didn't pay any more attention, because he just thought it was a Secret Service man.


http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/sorrels1.htm

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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 22 May 2017, 8:00 am

Hughes film makes a mockery of the Sorrels tale.

Mr. SORRELS - No, sir; and I did not know at that time that the shots came from the building.
When I was--when Mr. Brennan was pointed out to me, I went up and told him who I was and asked him if he saw anything. And he told me what he had seen. And, at that time, that is the first time that I knew definitely that any shots had come from the building.

Total chaff my friends.
Cheers
Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 22 May 2017, 9:01 am

Thanks Bart,

So we are not looking for Euins alone in films and photos pre-shooting as he was not alone.

Mr. SORRELS - Not that I recall.
The little colored boy mentioned he was there with another colored boy that ran off when this thing happened--at the first shot this boy ran off. He said he stayed there, but the other boy ran off. I didn't make any effort to get touch with him, because he apparently saw nothing.

So we should see Euins and friend on Houston Street before shooting or directly after.

What was his name?

Cheers, Ed
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Mick Purdy on Mon 22 May 2017, 12:32 pm




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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 23 May 2017, 8:27 am

Lets face it the charlatans whom plague the PM is Oswald factoid have no proof to offer of Oswald being involved in any of the crimes committed November 22.

We have films and documents to substantiate our claims.
Proof is in front, in front of their eyes and the Depository itself.
What evidence do the deniers have to support their governments anti-conspiracy theory.
Circumstantial evidence that crumbles under scrutiny is not what we have in Prayer Man, its what they claim for Oswalds guilt.

The lone nuts have a hole in their psyche
Its a defect in their intellect.

They are forever flat earthers with or without a laser level.
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by barto on Sun 28 May 2017, 5:48 pm




Thanks to ‎S.r. Dusty Rohde

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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Mon 29 May 2017, 4:07 am

"Anyway they have the window set up to look exactly like it did on that day. And it’s really accurate, you know. ’Cause Oswald’s not in it."

Bill Hicks
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Re: No Shots Fired From The TSBD

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