Anatomy Of A Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter

First topic message reminder :

Last April I spoke about the second floor lunch room encounter as part of my Prayer Man presentation at the 14th DPUK seminar in Canterbury. Afterwards I wasn't happy with that segment to which Barry Keane suggested I'd write it up, which I did not realising the task that lay ahead.
 
At the link below I tried to cram every bit of info in there that is available on this alleged encounter.


There will be an interactive presentation to follow.
 
http://www.prayer-ma...room-encounter/

Beyond stellar Bart!

Cheers, Ed

Thank you Ed, I think there is still more to come
I have added better detailed close ups of the Houston Post newspaper with Lovelady being  quoted.
You can actually read it for a change.
Lemme post them here as well

Cheers Bart!
Excellent article.
Billy is telling 'newspaper reporters' he never liked Lee since he laid eyes on him because Lee was always reading the 'newspaper.'
Billy was removed from their subscription prospectus.

Indeed he was

Billy was describing the actual policeman running towards the RR yards and not towards the front steps, since he was busy going there himself with his foreman Bill Shelley.

Meanwhile thanks to Denis Morissette  for this article on Truly.
Press and Sun-Bulletin Binghamton, New York · Sun, Dec 8, 1963

1960's researcher Arch Kimbraugh wrote this, he interviewed Truly and Truly says Oswald was wearing a white t-shirt on the day he left to testify in front of the W.C. The W.C. did not ask Truly what Oswald was wearing at least not in the official transcript. There is deleted testimony of Truly at the archives which is now being kept under lock and key, it is on a dictabelt recording.
Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for the paperwork.

"one of them confronted this boy (Oswald)."
 
One of whom? One of the police? Were there others?

I know, I know. I'm thinking too much here.

No mate that is exactly what I wrote when I placed this article in my 2nd fl paper which will be updated for a third time.

Detailed drawings, thanks to Gary Murr, of the 2nd floor, the lunch room and the hallway.
http://www.prayer-man.com/tsbd-2nd-floor-drawings/

Note how tiny the so called 'vestibule' is,

Just wanted to point everyone to a partial Lancer thread from 2007, where Greg and Sean Murphy and others are discussing the 2FLRE.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071008045818/http:/www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=3&topic_id=64074&mesg_id=64074&page=&topic_page=2

Greg posted this link to a video on FB where he had IDed Baker while Oswald is being pulled out of a room and is being escorted through the corridor.
Greg said this: @ 44:55 This is a capture from The Lost JFK Tapes. It is from film taken on Saturday night. The white helmet has underneath it, one Marrion Baker. If you watch the clip, there is no sign of recognition from either Oswald or Baker. That's because this is the only "encounter" they ever had.


What I can add is even more significant. If this is Baker then the footage is from the 23rd in the evening, as Oswald is pulled through the corridors wearing only his white t-shirt.


Let me up the ante, IF this is Baker....he saw Oswald and knew he was being railroaded the next day and couldn't face him!  


Greg having made a great find.


WATCH! Updated content with new edited video and slow motion sequence to follow.



I paste three screen shots in.





That is Baker in  the footage above, Way to go Greg!

My working hypothesis sequence.

• Shots are fired. At least one of them originate from the Dal-Tex building
  
• Oswald is PM, standing momentarily in the corner of the entrance of the TSBD.
  
• Baker parks his bike, makes his run toward the Dal-Tex building.
  
• As people reenter the TSBD, Oswald is seen in the vestibule, by the small storeroom.
  
• This is where ANY police officer/Truly encounter took place.
  
• Baker enters the TSBD and begins his search of the building.
  
• Baker never encounters Oswald.
  
• Baker fills out his affidavit the evening of the assassination; he doesn't mention the second floor lunchroom, nor does he mention Oswald by name.
  
• During his Warren Commission testimony, Baker is asked to look at his questioner, to make eye contact, because he cannot be heard very well.
  
• When asked if he saw Oswald later, Baker tells the WC the he saw him from an office he was in while giving his affidavit.
  
• After approximately ninety more question/comments from the WC, the discussion goes off the record.
  
• When the discussion resumes, Baker is asked:
  

Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, I believe you testified that you later saw Lee Harvey Oswald at the police station of the homicide office, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Was this later on that same day?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, it was.
Mr. BELIN - Would you state whether or not the man who was shown to you in the police station as Lee Harvey Oswald was or was not the same man that you saw and encountered on the second floor lunchroom of the Texas School Book Depository Building on that day?
Mr. BAKER - He was the same man.   

 
Assertions:

• Baker's affidavit was correct, his WC testimony was not.
  
• Baker didn't immediately enter the TSBD.
  
• Oswald was PM and encountered on the first floor vestibule area.
  
• Baker doesn't make eye contact and mumbles during his WC testimony because he's troubled.
  
• The WC goes off the record prior to asking Baker if the man he saw at the Police Station that night was Oswald because it's critically important to nail this down, point blank, because Baker's performance has been weak.
  
• Baker never saw Oswald at the TSBD.
  

A killer find by the Lizard King! 
With slow motion follow up added.
The encounter is coincidental, Baker just happened to walk past while Oswald was being brought out.
There has to be more......

And it is not J.W. Courson, who stood watch at 317.




Baker

Whoa that is something to behold, Baker making eye contact and looking down like that. 

Baker should know, that's the guy in whose stomach he had his gun. That's the guy he let get away. They got him though. He gave him the slip but his com padres tracked him down and bagged him for him. Saved his ass by golly. He just can't seem to look him in the eye though. Because he knows what he knows. Obviously best to keep his mouth shut, unless he wants to make a stink at his own dinner table, which is never a good idea.

What is wrong with this picture? Everything.

Great find,Greg.

My hypothesis begins with no shots from an empty window.

Whispering in the crowd by planted individuals leads to discussions about the empty window. False ideas are injected into the crowd
Subterfuge designed as memory.

A late arriving cop gets the drift.
His unexpected anxiousness to scale mount depository comes after a second hand account by Truly of what a construction worker believed he had seen. Top floor gunman perhaps.
Baker doesn't stop his ascent for snipers windows, no he has bigger birds to fry.
But the pigeon had flown the coop.
So he gives up on the TSBD and rides off into the windy Dallas afternoon.
Interesting as at 12:36 there begins radio reports about the TSBD as a possibility...followed by a 12:38 radio report of another 'witness',,, Euins tells his tale, perhaps borrowed second hand from a construction worker, and yet Baker rode away....tsk tsk good thing Baker runs fast or he would have had to stay and search the place again,.

HMMM am I missing something?

ITS NOT LEE THEY NEED OUT OF THE TSBD BY 12:33 ... ITS BAKER THEY NEED THE HECK OUT BEFORE 12:36
When it's become to hot at the TSBD for Baker to just be riding off without telling incoming cops he's already searched the roof top and lunchroom
:-)

Ed, I like it. My take on Baker is that fundamentally he was a monkey wrench in the works. He was treated accordingly and they wore him down until he got along to get along. He could look at how things were going for Roger Craig, plus there were other things for him to think about: Oswald as a cop killer, guilty of something, guilty by decree of superiors, and there was his own retirement to consider. (not that I'm holding Oswald's guilt in the assassination or in Tippet's murder as true, but rather that Baker would have plenty of incentive to believe so).

Yes in a way Baker too was a patsy.

Yes quite the conundrum for Mama son.

And as been asserted the other cops and likely his superiors reminded him he let a a murderer and soon to be cop killer go .... poor dumb cop.
Trapped by his own devices

Update number 5 is out, been a year since I did one.

http://www.prayer-man.com/anatomy-of-the-second-floor-lunch-room-encounter-v5-march-2019/

barto wrote:Update number 5 is out, been a year since I did one.

http://www.prayer-man.com/anatomy-of-the-second-floor-lunch-room-encounter-v5-march-2019/

Thanks Barto, you're on fire!

Great job,Barto.

Thanks Mick and Viny.

Meanwhile, thanks to Reuel Smith. In one of John Barbour's PDFs from his Garrison files. 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-qB_Q7YJ73Km1YU0VOTPHeAE-aT0eo51/view?usp=sharing
Page 51 at the bottom.
In the Dan Smoot Report from Dec 2 1963

One of the police officers who searched inside the building was accompanied by R. S. Truly, a supervisor of the book depository firm.They encountered Lee Harvey Oswald, walking toward an entrance, to leave the building. The officer asked who he was. Mr. Truly said Oswald