Dallas Transit Transfer

First topic message reminder :

Anyone having trouble going through this thread can watch the old original one here at Bart's site:
http://www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/rokc%20forum/www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13122617-dallas-transit-transfers-.html 

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

	Greg, Lee, All, good news. I submit to you one complete book of Dallas Transit Company Shoppers Transfers!   As Lee Farley said "The bus transfer is the most curious item involved in this whole affair. If he wasn’t on the bus then how did he get it? Why did it take the DPD two hours to find it? How did they find out it was McWatters who punched it?"   First the transfers I have are issued for Sunday June 1959   Manufactured by the Southwest Globe Ticket Co. Dallas - Would become Globe   They are for the same route, Marsalis Bus 1213 would use these.   The book starts with transfer 019651 on top and run down to 019700.   Fifty tickets in a booklet.   Signature is of Vice Pres. would switch to Pres. in '63   I can do some tests with the transfers but they are cheap thin paper and would fold and wrinkle instantly in a pocket and would just end up looking like this:       Size of these transfers are rather small flimsy thin paper, I had expected a ticket like an airline ticket.   The size is 7 1/2" x 2" for the booklet.   A ticket torn like 004459 is 4 1/2" long slightly shorter than the average shirt pocket of 4 3/4 - 5".   Ink pen for size comparison:     Note size of original 004459 next to a PO box key.   Every Transfer has instructions printed on the back.       Which state "How to get shoppers free return trip ticket, upon boarding any inbound transit vehicle between 10:00am and 2:00pm ask the operator for a shoppers transfer; purchase $1 or more of merchandise in any one of the participating stores below; pesent your salesslip and this transfer to the transfer desk in THAT STORE, and receive your FREE RETUR RIDE TRANSIT TICKET, which must be used before 4:01 or after 7:00pm   (see list of stores on picture) Watch your daily newspaper ads for names of participating stores.     The back of the book of transfers, note booklets are numbered.       (Note:inside rear cover is blank) Question is what booklet number was LHO's transfer from?   Was the receipt from the inside back cover of the booklet?         Here is the real question: Who wants to contact the archives and see if they have transfer 004451 and the receipt. IF THEY DO then we must get a copy of both sides of each item. If my theory is correct the receipt was written on the blank back cover and the back of 004451 has instructions on it. I know the archives has 004459, I called and had them check, but I did not ask for a copy of the back! [] drats! Usually with documents and evidence they photograph and copy each side, just look at other evidence. WHAT is on the back/reverse of 004459?       Upon trying to see if its doable to tear transfers from the bottom of a book.... You would need to flip the book upside down to be able to tear from the bottom of the book. Then you can not see where you are tearing. I know your saying well you just peel back the transfer till what you want is showing, ie the 1 and 0, then you fold and tear it. It just doesn't work, takes both hands, is inconvient and pointless. You would open the booklet, place a guide(straight edge, finger, what have you) across the 1 and 0 and tear. Simple and easy. Doing it backwards is not. Only a small staple holds the booklet together, and each transfer is perforated. What did the front office think about the backwards method? I guess it really doesn't matter as to which exact transfer was given when but sure seems easier business wise if its done in numerical sequence....but I digress.   "Concerning the transfer, I will leave you with this. We do know that the DPD confiscated the book of transfers from Cecil McWatters. Whether it was definitely the same book that Oswald's transfer was allegedly issued from is anyone’s guess because the actual book was never photographed. We do know "a" book was taken because a receipt was given for it. The receipt has the following written on the back “Receipt for the book of transfers from which transfer was issued to Oswald the accused assin of Pres, John F. Kennedy.” What is tantalising about this receipt is what it was written on. What is even more tantalising is the number of the thing it was written on. Receipt 004451. I’ll leave it up to everyone’s imagination to make their own sense out of what this could potentially mean" ~Lee Farley http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17269
	January 30, 2015 at 4:23 PM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Ed Ledoux Moderator Posts: 1104	The photo copy of 004451 and the receipt, aka Exhibit No 9, look like they were laid side by side and photocopied at the same time! If this is the case, and I suspect I am correct, then the receipt is on the rear inside cover and the reverse would show the booklet number that these transfers came from. And the reverse of 004451 or 004459 would have the shoppers transfer instructions on them. Its a good day tater!
	January 30, 2015 at 5:06 PM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Greg Site Owner Posts: 2048	Ed, you sly dog. Great detective work. Can we get a volunteer to make the phone call? If this pans out as expected... it's not just a good day. It's a bloody little ripper.
	January 30, 2015 at 6:21 PM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Ed Ledoux Moderator Posts: 1104	Thanks Greg, I've looked at it ten ways to sunday and the receipt and 004451 appear to have mirrored tear outs. Or near mirrored tear outs. Need best copy of No 9 from archives at least to make final that they are same item or two items side by side. If they are exactly mirrored tear out around the staple area then 'they' may be one item. IOW it could very well be the receipt was written on the back of 004451. it does look as if they match.. So were they torn out exactly the same? I doubt it. But if 004451 was next to rear cover (the receipt), or on the bottom and they both were torn out they would look like what we see in exhibit No 9.  see my overlay Both overlaid to show match for tear out. Could it still be two items? Anything is possible in this case. Match also as said before may mean it is Transfer 004451 reverse side and that means transfers were NOT printed with instructions on the back of the transfers in 1963. I find that hard to believe! It would be like a valet ticket without a disclaimer!! Looks like two items could not have been torn from a booklet in a similar fashion: The rear cover and, the top transfer/first transfer (or a simply a transfer sequentially numbered 8 transfers before  004459) as there would be 9 transfers worth of stub between the rear cover and 004451 when they were torn this would interfere with such a similar tear out shape. Of course 004459 would not be the last transfer in any booklet 004460 could be, unless the booklet was used backwards. This holds true even should Globe switched to booklets of ten transfers in '63 (not that I think they did) This would hold true if Mcwatters only took ten transfers with him from a full booklet (not that I think this happened or is at all likely). So did Globe stop printing the instructions on the back of transfers? Exhibit No 9 holds much to see! Where exactly is the original transfer 004451, at the archives .... ? Oh so we don't get duped we need archivist to have a mirror held so you can get image of both front and back at same time. That way nothing can impune that evidence.
	--   “Is everything a conspiracy? No. Only the important stuff.” Jeff Wells, Rigorous Intuition   PM is THE litmus test of intellectual integrity for researching this case. Those who fall back on the fuxxy picture defense are not of a caliber to understand the ins-and-outs of this case. ~ Terry Martin   January 30, 2015 at 7:40 PM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Ed Ledoux Moderator Posts: 1104	We need front/rear image of each item, especially of "Oswald's transfer" 004459, we do need to see the reverse side!!! Most important as this will show if printed instructions exists on backs of 1963 transfers and answer questions raised. 004451 we need to see both sides in a mirror. Receipt, same as above.
	January 30, 2015 at 7:51 PM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Ed Ledoux Moderator Posts: 1104	Although the transfer supposedly found on LHO was small 4 1/2 x 2" of thin paper it seems unlikely to be missed in a search of the shirt / pocket. Possible, if the search of the shirt was conducted by Mr Magoo wearing winter mittens... More likely is LHO was never on a bus, never had a transfer, never needed a transfer, but one was supplied for him.
	January 30, 2015 at 8:09 PM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Greg Site Owner Posts: 2048	Sitting here nodding all the way through I as I read it.
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Ed Ledoux Moderator Posts: 1104	Thanks Greg! Interesting we have never seen the back of the 'transfer' 004459. I'm so damn interested to see what is on the reverse! Does anyone know if its been seen? EVER? No one ever has asked for the back? It must be in an image database somewhere Most all archived documents are copied front and rear, even when there is nothing on the reverse. They should have this ready to go for us. Hehehe Again I want to see it in a mirror, so we don't get fooled again, to quote a great rock song.
	January 30, 2015 at 8:30 PM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Greg Site Owner Posts: 2048	bump (we need a volunteer to phone the achives)
	January 31, 2015 at 8:34 AM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Ed Ledoux Moderator Posts: 1104	http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pdf/WH16_CE_381.pdf The Back of 381a or a photocopy of 004459
	January 31, 2015 at 5:36 PM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Ed Ledoux Moderator Posts: 1104
	January 31, 2015 at 6:14 PM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Ed Ledoux Moderator Posts: 1104	Sans reverse instructions on 004459, one can safely say 004451 is "the receipt" and Globe did stop printing Shopper Transfers instructions on the reverse side. Next is testing. I can complete a detailed experiment where I will match LHO's movements and actions alledged and see how well a shirt pocket protects a flimsy transfer from crinkles, wrinkles, folds, creases and dog ears.
	January 31, 2015 at 6:36 PM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Greg Site Owner Posts: 2048	Ed Ledoux at January 31, 2015 at 6:36 PM Sans reverse instructions on 004459, one can safely say 004451 is "the receipt" and Globe did stop printing Shopper Transfers instructions on the reverse side. Next is testing. I can complete a detailed experiment where I will match LHO's movements and actions alledged and see how well a shirt pocket protects a flimsy transfer from crinkles, wrinkles, folds, creases and dog ears. Ed,  they may have stopped printing on the back cos most using it would be elderly and I'd assume an occasional complaint would be made about the print being too small to read. My guess is that between 1959 and '63 they posted the instructions inside the bus in largish print. There are a couple of issues for... first obviously arises if 51 and 59 came from same book... The other issue seems to be that all transfer tickers were printed as "shopper's transfer" but could only be used as a shoppers transfer with McWatters punch mark. Without the punch-mark, it was just your ordinary run-of-the-mill transfer -  but with it, it is now a SHOPPER'S TRANSFER. Was going to copy and paste McWatters' testimony on this, but it is truly excruciating. But the sense I get is that  Mcwatters himself all but rules ticket 59 out as being given to Oswald - because as above - the punch mark transforms it into a shopper's transfer. McWatters' does say you have to specifically ask for a shoppers transfer (presumably otherwise you just get it without the punch hole).  Once it has that punch hole, it is useless unless you go spend a buck. Oswald just wanted to get home - not go shopping. And McWatters actually tells them it is in the majority of cases only old ladies who ask for them. McWatters had absolutely no reason to punch that ticket. If Oswald was on that bus, all he needed was the ticket. With that punch hole - he COULD NOT JUST GO AND HOP ANOTHER BUS. At least, that is what I get from it. The punch hole  Screw it. I'll post the testimony afterall.. see what you guys can make of it...  Mr. McWATTERS - I really don't know because I didn't, see, I didn't know anything--I didn't put out any--most of the transfers that you put out at this time or that time of day are for elderly women which get the shopper's transfers, in other words. It has got a line there, and it entitles them to a free ride back to where they came from in other words, and that time of the morning, because when I get downtown, in other words, you can catch a bus at Elm Street going to any place that I would go without having a transfer, in other words. ----------------------------------- Mr. BALL - Mr. McWatters, on this transfer is the name of Shopper's Transfer. Does that have any significance? Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; that is what I was telling him. In other words, if they want a Shoppers; well I put my punch mark in that Shoppers there, which they cannot use it for a transfer, in other words, any more than other than--all the stores, most of them in downtown Dallas, if you buy as much as a dollar's worth between the period of ten and four in the afternoon they give you a little white slip which entitled you to ride what is called the Shopper's Pass. It rides you back, but in other words you have to, a passenger has to, ask for it in other words. When they say a Shopper, you take a punch and punch your punch mark where it says Shoppers, but they are not supposed to use the transfer then to transfer to another bus. They are supposed, in other words, where it is punched in the store, get it exchanged for their return fare. Mr. BALL - In other words, all your transfers have on them printed the word "Shopper's Transfer"? Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; they do. Mr. BALL - And in order to make it a Shopper's Transfer so that the transfer can be exchanged for a merchandise coupon to ride home, it has to have your punch in the Shopper's Transfer area, is that right? Mr. McWATTERS - That is correct, yes, sir. If I am right, that punch hole has just proved Oswald was not on the bus.
	January 31, 2015 at 7:56 PM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Terry Martin Moderator Posts: 1143	Another marvelous example of using the WC itself to destroy the opinions of the WC. It always has been its own worst critic.
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Greg Site Owner Posts: 2048	Terry Martin at January 31, 2015 at 9:43 PM Another marvelous example of using the WC itself to destroy the opinions of the WC. It always has been its own worst critic. Terry, I can't believe I never saw it before, but sometimes it takes a thread as excellent as this to make you focus. Here is the killer blow from McWatters again and given the Fez treatment, for no other reason than I'm feeling a bit fezzy, but I'll get over it - if they want a Shoppers; well I put my punch mark in that Shoppers there, which they cannot use it for a transfer, in other words, any more than other than--all the stores
	January 31, 2015 at 11:00 PM [size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

Great listening.....thanks to you for the entertaining style

Colin if you ever wanna chat about Bonnie and co. then I am game....

Anytime Bart.....as long as we can accomodate the time difference between the UK and Oz. LOL

Wow thanks guys!

This was 6 stitched together segments, Rob Clark did a great job editing them together.
Love putting words to the microphone it has an effect on the listener, the real questions just need answered and hope we did it concerning rapid transit in Dallas on a Friday afternoon.

Cheers, Ed

Goes along with this report;

FIRST REPORTS OUT OF DALLAS TAKEN FROM THE FORT WORTH STAR TELEGRAM, =11/24/63 A paraffin test showed positive results on both the hands and =cheek of the 24-year-old ex-Marine. This, officers said, showed that the =man had fired a gun, probably a rifle. Joe Rodriguez Molina, a co-worker =of Oswald's, was given a lie detector test and was being questioned. His =home was also searched. As evidence mounted Saturday night, information =from a Dallas couple placed Oswald at the intersection of the building =used by the assassin a short time after the fatal shots were fired. Leon =Stanfield and his wife, Diane, who had heard an early radio report of =the shooting, told police they stopped their car for a red light at the =intersection and asked a young man they later identified as Oswald: "Is =the President dead?" Mrs. Stanfield said the man replied, "No, he's =going to wait and let us hang him." Oswald was on the Federal Bureau of =Investigation's list as a suspected subversive. Police here said the FBI =knew Oswald was in Dallas working in a building that fronted the =President's motorcade route. A spokesman for the FBI in Washington, =however, denied Saturday that the FBI had questioned Oswald or had him =under surveillance at any time in recent months.

By Stan Dane.

No doubt from a different thread but it sure as hell belongs in here too.
Call it a subliminal bump

Nice, Thanks Stan n Bart

Cheers, Ed

There appear to be a few light creases, one can be seen on the front btw.

Of course without the booklet this came from we dont know the condition of the transfers in said booklet.

Plus as you said, it could have been creased by anyone.

Damn this is amazing....great work Ed and company.

Mahalo BC_II !

We ran the wheels off the Bus and Cab conflation. 

The Bledsoe/Germany' part in this is an amazing story itself.
https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1247-what-strange-affidavits-these-are

Cheers, Ed

The day Kennedy Was Killed by Jim Bishop.

It is doubtful that Earlene Roberts ever knew a great joy. She was fat and unpretty and middle-aged, a housekeeper who wheezed when she walked. Even the small pleasures—a gumdrop—were denied to her because she had diabetes. She wore oversized house dresses and spent a great deal of time alone in the little house at 1026 North Beckley, in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. If she lifted a curtain from the front window, she saw a few struggling shrubs and a sign: “Bedroom for Rent.” If this was not enough, Mrs. Roberts could look diagonally across the street at the filling station. 
She maintained the little house for Mr. and Mrs. A. C. Johnson. They had a small restaurant which kept them busy all day, so Earlene took care of the dusting and cleaning and counted the towels and face cloths the roomers turned in. Mr. Johnson seldom had much to say. He worked hard and kept his mouth shut. “Mizz” Johnson was alert and in her middle years and could look through a person if she had a mind to. The roomers were mostly men who worked for a while in Dallas; then, one at a time, they dropped off and new ones saw the sign on the lawn. It was exactly 1 P.M. when Earlene Roberts heard the phone, and she got herself up from a chair by degrees and went to it. There was a girlfriend on the other end. “Roberts,” the voice said with the pretentious tone of one who has a secret, “President Kennedy has been shot.” The housekeeper was never short of words. She had lots of them if there was only someone around to use them on. And yet all she said was: “Oh, no.” The woman said: “Turn on your television set.” To Earlene Roberts nothing bad could happen to the mighty. “Are you trying to pull my leg?” she said. Her friend had no patience. “Go turn it on,” she said and hung up. The legs were slow, and Earlene had to walk around the curving couch in the living room, because the furniture was grouped around the square opaque eye of the television set. She turned it on and backed up to sit and then, when the sound came, it was all a babble of excitement as though too many people were talking at the same time. She stepped forward to adjust the volume and the front door swung open and one of the boarders came in. She seldom saw one in the middle of the day, and she never saw this one in such a hurry. His name was Mr. O. H. Lee and sometimes she said hello and he said nothing. She backed up to the couch and glanced at him and said: “Oh, you are in a hurry.” Mr. Lee didn’t look at her. He strode swiftly across the living room area to the left, where he had a small room. The picture came on the set and the camera kept switching from a hospital to people who were babbling about what they saw, and a young woman and a baby got on and Earlene could see that the woman was excited as she told about shots and where she had been standing and how awful it was. The roomer had double doors leading into what once must have been an alcove. He opened one and disappeared inside. The space was five feet by twelve, and an iron bedstead occupied most of it. The walls were pale green. Four windows adjoined each other. They were screened by Venetian blinds and lace curtains. The bed had a chenille spread. One window held an air conditioner; the floor had space for a small
heater. There was a pole for hanging clothes, but the roomer didn’t have much apparel. He yanked a white zipper jacket from the pole and put it on over his work shirt. On the wall was a solitary naked electric bulb. A fresh towel was lying on a chifforobe. He took his revolver and jammed it down inside the belt of his trousers. It was a .38 caliber snub-nosed weapon, seven and a quarter inches from barrel to butt. He thrust a few extra shells into his pocket. He came out of the tiny room and closed the door. Mrs. Roberts looked up from the television and might have spoken, might have communicated a fragment of the mass shock radiating out of Dallas, but, as Earlene thought, Mr. O. H. Lee “zipped” out the front door. She had never seen this particular boarder move so fast, so, a moment or two later, she got up, walked to the front window and drew the curtain back. There he was, down on the corner where Beckley, Ballard, and Elsbeth meet, standing at the bus stop. Mrs. Roberts was inquisitive, but the shooting of the President was much more exciting than watching Lee, so she returned to the set. She kept thinking that she never saw him come in and go out so fast.

Ok but wait Bart, it is the contention of some astute researchers here that LHO in Beckley was a farce, correct? Could this also mean that this event (LHO going to Beckley to retrieve a revolver and jacket) is false as well? I'm just trying to be clear as I read and analyze what we have commonly seen in print and audio for many years.

I have to say it again Ed,

this is one of the greatest threads going. Amazing detective work.

The renter ran in got a jacket.
Left in a hurry, stood at a bus stop, took bus downtown to see the excitement. Renter must have been in a hurry to catch the next bus to town, needed jacket as it would be late, or cold by time renter returns. (Lee has no such jacket on TSBD steps or at theater.)
☆Renter was H.Lee in Room O.
O H.Lee was written down by landlady as to that rooms occupant.
I would have liked to chat with Herbert about that day. What he did when he got back and his room had been ransacked by cops and reporters.
They left a Mexican ashtray and a banana peel for him to start over. He would as a cop in Louisiana, sure... doesnt every floor layer and house painter in Dallas do that.
Did he ever visit the stores across Beckley.
Did he go out drinking with other renters.
Did he play the Dallas County Fair?
I wonder if the same bus Herbert caught downtown picked up Lee at the stop on Elm and Houston, in front of the Daltex. Nah, aprox time is 12:45 Lee gets stopped asked for name, shows Library card, is let loose, caught Beckley bus at corner, rides to Jefferson, exits bus and walks to Texas Theater and enters between 1:00 and 1:07 buys ticket, gets popcorn, watched the Audie Murphy into then few minutes of film War is Hell which started at 1:20
If you got off work at 12:45 and had read a newspaper recently you would take in a show.



Seems logical.
Since he did not shoot anyone.
See a double feature, like a couple dozen others.
His only crime was being a known individual and being pointed out by someone anonymous.

Gotta love Dallas Tx '63

Cheers, Ed

barto wrote:
2
There appear to be a few light creases, one can be seen on the front

Thx Bart, it may have been folded. But flattened out, almost ironed. 

Reasons to fold up transfers,
1. Easier to hide in a palm and place on a suspect... then later claim to find in shirt pocket... Which pocket is unknown as the finder doesn't recall, or does not have a memory of which pocket.

and that's about it. 

I sense some may say but I fold up lil slips of paper all the time and put them in my pocket or wallet. 
Sure you do. But...
The creases or folds do not help the case for it not being found upon multiple searches.
An folded up piece of paper creates folds. These folds make it into an accordion.

I will post my scientific findings, folding the same ticket, placing in shirt, wearing the shirt on a trip, (Alternate: take ticket out replace in another shirt) wear shirt to movie, throw popcorn on biggest guy there, get ass kicked and thrown out of theater by six patrons. That outta be similar enough... add a few hours of being grabbed, pulled, pushed, and molested by police, yet no one finds the paper accordion and five live bullets till just before a line-up (showup). 
Only in Texas '63
Cheers, Ed

First I took an exactly same sized and manufactures transfer.
I then examined the folds on the Sims transfer and replicated the placement on mine.
Here are the folds and how they are duplicated.
Note the folds do not allow for an equally spaced arrangement/s.

The triangular fold and upward fold at RAMONA are made by folding under the RAMONA run and folding the ear.
Under these folds are two more that do not allow for folding over but are just folds which add bulk to the accordion.

Don't know whether this has been posted before, but if the bus ticket was in his shirt and found after the second search, then of course he never changed his  shirt at Beckley......

Oh but Bart, you're right. And the bus ticket in the record is not the ticket they'd actually found in the first place. They found two tickets in his pockets. One was for an admission to a movie picture at the Texas theatre dated 22/11/1963, and the other was a bust ticket for his ride from Houston to the TT along Nth Beckley. 

Couldn't have anyone see them that's for certain! 

Mr. BALL - Well, if you reach Lamar, if you were to reach Lamar at 12:40, what time, according to the rules should you punch it?
Mr. McWATTERS - I should have punched it at 12:45.
Mr. BALL - At 12:45?
Mr. McWATTERS - But I would have to punch one book a.m. and another one p.m., so I just punched both of them p.m.
Mr. BALL - In other words, what you do is punch on the hour rather than the 45 and 15 minutes usually?
Mr. McWATTERS - Yes.
Mr. BALL - In other words, your usual practice is not to punch on the 15-minute interval, is that right, but to punch on the hour?
Mr. McWATTERS - Well, just like I say within the closest of the hour like that, in other words.
Mr. BALL - Suppose today you were wanting to punch some transfers at the end of the line and you knew you were going to get to Lamar at 12:40. Would you punch--what would you punch it?
Mr. McWATTERS - I work that run all the time, I punch at 1 o'clock every day. As I say I worked it 2 years and as I say in order to keep from punching one of them a.m. and one p.m., for the difference in the hour there, I just punch them p.m.
Mr. BALL - I don't quite understand that. Doesn't your p.m. start at after 12 o'clock?
Mr. McWATTERS - Well, the way the transfers are there, did you notice how they was, they run them until--see how 12:45 there, in other words, that is what they use that up to a.m. in other words.
Mr. BALL - It is 12:45 a.m., it runs up to a.m.
Mr. McWATTERS - That is what they run it to a.m. In other words, after 12:45 or in there, in other words, everything is punched p.m.
Mr. BALL - In other words, everything in the hour from 12 on is punched a.m., the day time, 12 to one is a.m., 12 to 12:45, for that hour, a transfer good in that hour is punched a.m., is that right?
Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, it can be punched a.m. up to, just like 12:45.
Mr. BALL - And the next punch is 1 o'clock and that is p.m?
Mr. McWATTERS - That is p.m.; yes, sir. That is the way they have them.


Is this exchange what I think it is. 
McWatters saying he punches all tickets PM from 1.00pm onward not midday. He seems to be saying at least to my mind that the transfers are marked AM up until 1.00pm.

Is that right?
You see where I'm coming from?