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StanDane- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71 
Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Thu 11 Aug 2016, 6:23 pm
First topic message reminder :
This is full rebuild of the hugely popular thread created by Mick Purdy at the Webs forum in February 2015. – Stan
Mick Purdy
I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.
I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.
I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.
I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.
I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.
Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.
The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.
Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.
Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.
From the HSCA interview of Shields
To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.
Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.
In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.
This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.
The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………
An alternative scenario
Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)
What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!
Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.
Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. What follows is some of my conjecture.
Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.
Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."
Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?
I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement.
This is full rebuild of the hugely popular thread created by Mick Purdy at the Webs forum in February 2015. – Stan
Mick Purdy
I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.
I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.
I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.
I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.
I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.
Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.
The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.
Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.
Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.
From the HSCA interview of Shields
SHIELDS: I think Charles Givens hollered out there and asked Frazier where was his rider and he told him: "I dropped him off at the building." Yeah, that was it...Well, I was down on the floor when they hollered out and said and the answer he gave them, I don't know, I think he said: "I dropped him off at the building." Now, whoever it was hollering asked him, I don't know.
DAY: This is the morning of the assassination?
SHIELDS: Mm-hmm.
DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."
SHIELDS: Yes.
DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?
SHIELDS: No I didn’t.
To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.
Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.
In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.
This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.
The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………
An alternative scenario
Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)
What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!
Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.
Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. What follows is some of my conjecture.
Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.
Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."
Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?
I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement.
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 9:39 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Colin Crow
I'll throw this speculation out there. What if Oswald carried the package to the Randle's, is briefly seen by LMR crossing the driveway and she hears him opening the door to Wesley's car. Frazier notices no package at all and it is left in the back of the car when they arrive. At this point the rifle is ready to be used, Oswald cannot say much as he is involved in its transport to the scene. The curtain rod story is concocted by Frazier and the Randle's to get Wesley off any perceived hook. This occurs in the time from when Frazier leaves the building and is arrested by police at the hospital some hours later. In the intervening time LMR talks to the cops at Irving. Interestingly it seems that the time that that conversation occurred might be before the bad is photographed leaving the building at 3 pm.
Terry Martin
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here, Colin.
Sure, Oswald could have put the package in the car and BWF may not have seen it but then the "Where's your rider?" would have never happened.
Although your timing of the curtain-rods-cover-story may have some legs.
Colin Crow
Terry there was plenty of BS constructed after the shooting. Like Givens claiming Oswald was riding up and down the elevator not doing any work. I think those guys added to their involvement and embellished memories. I'm not convinced the "where's your rider" story is not one of those.
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 9:40 pm
Terry Martin
Is the address on the package "601 West Nassau Street, Dallas, Texas"?
Where the heck is THAT? I cannot find the address.
Is the address on the package "601 West Nassau Street, Dallas, Texas"?
Where the heck is THAT? I cannot find the address.
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 9:41 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Terry Martin
Is the address on the package "601 West Nassau Street, Dallas, Texas"?
Where the heck is THAT? I cannot find the address.
Colin Crow
That's why it finished in the dead letter department. It is not a valid address.
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 9:43 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Ed Ledoux
Thanks Mick,
You saved me an hour.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2
The only person that they called off from the roll call list whom was not there was Lee Oswald. Wes thinks Lee wanted a sandwich and left the TSBD. Of course he would, he said Lee had no lunch, only curtain rods. Truly had to call upstairs to get okay to let employees go. Roll Call was 30-45 minutes after shooting. So by 1 or 1:30 pm they were roll calling and then let go a few minutes later by Truly and the boss upstairs. Wes claims again he is arrested by Rose and Stovall but they claim Detective John A. McCabe arrested BWF at the hospital and takes him to Irving PD... Wes said Rose and Stovall, two DPD cops whom he later was friendly with arrested him.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/rose_g.htm
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/stovall.htm
Wes has a lot of inconsistent claims not backed by anyone...except Linnie and the bit about the bag.
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/randl_l1.htm
Randle says on November 23rd that she saw him put a long brown package, approximately 3 feet by 6 inches, in the back seat area of WESLEY FRAZIER's 1954 black Chevrolet four door automobile. Thereafter, she observed OSWALD walk to the front, or entrance area, of her residence where he waited for FRAZIER to come out of the house and give him a ride to work.
RANDLE stated while at the Dallas Police Department on the evening of November 22, 1963, officers of the Dallas Police Department had exhibited to her some brown package paper, however she had not been able to positively identify it as being identical with the above-mentioned brown package, due to the fact she had only observed the brown package from her residence window at a distance. So she did not see it go in the car this is an assumption. She said at first it was just a Long Brown Package.
Linnie would have the length for the FBI on November 23rd as a 3 foot 6 inch long brown package.
http://media.nara.gov/dc-metro/rg-272/605417-key-persons/randle_linnie_mae/randle_linnie_mae-0005.jpg
Secret Service gives Linnie a chance to describe the item on November 28. She tells them it is "two feet or over in length"
She has the size down to one which is now similar to Wesley's description of about 24". But has the "Package" now "Wrapped" in brown paper.
She then tell FBI investigators on December 1st that it was a long package wrapped in brown paper or a brown sack.
She now brings the size back up to "27 inches."
http://media.nara.gov/dc-metro/rg-272/605417-key-persons/randle_linnie_mae/randle_linnie_mae-0011.jpg
http://media.nara.gov/dc-metro/rg-272/605417-key-persons/randle_linnie_mae/randle_linnie_mae-0012_t.jpg
Lee was not carrying a rifle he was carrying an accordion!
Here we have Linnie saying Essie did not see the bag, but Essie did get a glimpse of Lee, but this was after Lee had put the package in the car. Thus getting Essie off the hook.
http://media.nara.gov/dc-metro/rg-272/605417-key-persons/randle_linnie_mae/randle_linnie_mae-0017.jpg
The paper and tape sample has me questioning why it has folds in it the way it does...? Attempt to make a flap? Why is the paper torn like that? Where is the other half of the paper they ripped this from? Was this ripped from something that was folded already? Like it had been wrapped around a book carton for shipping?
Kraft paper folded to illustrate the folds of Commission Exhibit No. 140 when it was received in the FBI.
What were they making paper airplanes or was this an assassination origami class?
From Greg Parker~
The fascinating thing about his study is that it appears that not only did the Dallas Police not photograph the bag where they say they found it, but they do not appear to have photographed it at all until November 26th! This, of course, brings even further doubt on the aforementioned fingerprint evidence. The DPD did not lift or photograph any such evidence while they had the bag. And according to FBI agent Gordon Shanklin's inventory, the bag was not sent to Washington on the evening of the assassination. (The Third Decade, Vol. 1 No. 2, p. 12) Once it got there, the FBI had to do three different tests in order to pull off one index finger fingerprint and one palmprint. (WC Vol. IV pgs. 3-4) The bag then returned to Dallas, appears to be a different bag than the one sent. If so, how did the palmprint and index fingerprint get on it? In other words, which bag was the print evidence on?
As Speer notes, the Dallas Police could not tell a consistent story on what was discovered first, the bag or the rifle. They could not tell a consistent story on who dusted the rifle. Lt. Day says he did this on the scene, but no one on the scene backs him on this. Others say it was Det. Studebaker who dusted the bag.
What if Fritz and company handed the bag to Lee. If it was folded
No worries Mick! Here is the corrected statement by Wesley, "...Lee um, on his own he decided to come down to the house, where I live with my Sister and Brother in Law and three children. And I was eating, um breakfast. And my Mother was there, ah ..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqaCPYCtKq4
Colin,
You trying the chicken and egg game with the rifle and bag? What if LMR does not see LHO at all till Essie Mae says who is that man in the window. This makes the most sense. LHO would be standing there in the drive way waiting for Wes. No package seen.
Perhaps LMR does go to the door to see if LHO wants to wait for BWF inside. At one time Wesley does mention Lee coming inside the kitchen and Wes speaking to him. Can we find where Wes says Lee was inside and were Wes says Lee never came in!? I am sure he flip flopped like a halibut on this!
Anyhow that phone call or conversation between LMR and BWF about the bag would need a crystal ball not a phone. I mean how the heck would the Frazier Randle team know the play book would require bringing the rifle that day? And require a paper sack?
And that sack needed to carry the broken down rifle as opposed to an fully assembled rifle? Of course the DPD helped by making and showing Wes a HUGE sack which looked like it could carry a fully assembled rifle. That always bugged me.
How did those two know what to say before anyone knew what would be in play...? Okay there is a bag brought out at 3 pm but was the plan to have the assassin carry in the sack in that morning?
Why so close to the big event. Was this where they needed Wes. Needed a sack carrying commie to ride in on an Friday.
Is this a DPD deal, take it or fry kinda deal offered by the cops to Wes and Linnie, and a DA whom was know for getting 'convictions' of almost a hundred percent in death penalty cases. Tell us about a bag or we keep you for 48 hours and build a case kinda deal. Wes could say they were pogo sticks Lee said he was bringing for the kids at Beckley and no one was going to argue this. So rods it was. The stuff Wes mumbles about being with Lee and they measured just seems like they had Lee and Wes together in the same room, measuring bags, maybe not a 'lineup'?
Wes talking about Lee saying your the one who drove, could be more of Lee asking Wes to confirm Lee's lunch sack was not 36" long. You drove Wes you should know I didn't carry a rifle in to work.
The Brennan Mystery lineup would be a good fit if this all took place at the same time.
Wesley continues to say he wishes he could clear up the rifle in the bag issue. WTF? Wesley, why the heck would you still be confused about this? For Pete's sake you said he had a two foot sack. The rifle was not two feet long. Pretty much un fogs that mystery. Yet Wes will keep up a charade about rods and rifles. Please!
I can see a curtain rod story post arrest. Linnie would not need to be in on this part ahead of time but could be soley in Wes' mind as a reason not only for the bag, but also the off schedule trip to Irving...
I know Linnie mentions she hears from Wes about the rods in her WC testimony but when is the earliest Linnie speaks of the rod story? If it matters, again she can claim ignorance on this matter.
The thing with Wes's car is the back door. It doesn't lock. This allows anyone access to his vehicle. If anything was left in Wes' car then anyone could come along later and get in. Did Lee even know this though. If Lee carried no packages to and fro he surely had no need to open the back door.
Has anyone tried to stick a broken down 40" MC rifle under a '54 Chevy rear seat?
Oswald rightly claimed no ownership of a rifle. The Kleins 40" fiasco is exculpatory anyway you examine it. Oswald claims his lunch was brought in a bag, paper sack could have been as big as a grocery bag. No evidence from the lunchroom trash was recovered, no other bags were recovered from the TSBD besides the chicken lunch sack. Did they look for a carton. A carton or cardboard case, as Linnie described rather than a bag.
Frazier stands by his story.
"I don’t know how the rifle got in the building," he said last week, adding: "They kept trying to get me to change my testimony."
How about Wesley's lunch sack. Was it made from crinkly paper like you might find in any places shipping department?
Did Linnie Mae have special lunch sacks for Wesley's lunches, like you might buy by the hundred? Or was Wes' sack a simple grocery bag.
We need a whole thread on the list of questions for Wesley. ????????????????? Wesley Thread ????????????????????
Cheers!
PS: I thought you all would like the string on this package!
Mick Purdy
I think it's time to start awarding the Ledoux awards for members outstanding achievements.
Maybe this post gets 3 Ledouxs.
- StanDane
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Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 10:50 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Terry Martin
Is the address on the package "601 West Nassau Street, Dallas, Texas"?
Where the heck is THAT? I cannot find the address.
Lee Farley
This package was supposed to contain nothing more than brown paper similar to the type allegedly used to wrap up the rifle.
Never believed it myself.
Harry Holmes opened this package after the assassination. Again, allegedly, there was insufficient postage paid on the package for it to be delivered and a card was posted at the Paine residence (the day before the assassination?? from memory) to make Lee H. Oswald aware of it. I've never been able to figure out why they would do this for a package that had a completely different address on it and why the Post Office would take the effort to cross-reference the name to a different address. Wouldn't happen now—I'm positive it didn't happen then.
A package like this would have set alarm bells off for one very simple reason—ALL of LHO's mail was being watched (by Harry Holmes)—so, IMO, there is a lot more to this package than we'll ever know.
- StanDane
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Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 10:51 pm
Terry Martin
Yes, having worked at the Post Office for fifteen years, I know such a thing would not have happened.
Yes, having worked at the Post Office for fifteen years, I know such a thing would not have happened.
- StanDane
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 10:52 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Terry Martin
Is the address on the package "601 West Nassau Street, Dallas, Texas"?
Where the heck is THAT? I cannot find the address.
Lee Farley
This package was supposed to contain nothing more than brown paper similar to the type allegedly used to wrap up the rifle.
Never believed it myself.
Harry Holmes opened this package after the assassination. Again, allegedly, there was insufficient postage paid on the package for it to be delivered and a card was posted at the Paine residence (the day before the assassination?? from memory) to make Lee H. Oswald aware of it. I've never been able to figure out why they would do this for a package that had a completely different address on it and why the Post Office would take the effort to cross-reference the name to a different address. Wouldn't happen now—I'm positive it didn't happen then.
A package like this would have set alarm bells off for one very simple reason—ALL of LHO's mail was being watched (by Harry Holmes)—so, IMO, there is a lot more to this package than we'll ever know.
Mick Purdy
So in other words Lee, is it possible that any mail which came by the Irving post office addressed to LHO but with an obviously different address on it would end up in "dead mail" for Harry to take care of.....and open. Just a thought.
Or did Harry just open all of the mail addressed to LHO?
- StanDane
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Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 10:55 pm
Mick Purdy
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; it didn't. I just thought maybe, you know, he just left a little bit earlier but when I looked up and saw that the clock was. I knew I was the one who was running a little bit late because, as I say, I was talking, sitting there eating breakfast and talking to the little nieces, it was later than I thought it was.
And later in the testimony…
Mr. BALL - Were you later than usual that morning?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't believe we were, because we got to work on time. I say, when I looked at the clock, after I glanced he was there a split second and I just turned around and looked at the clock to see what time it was and it was right amount (around) 7:21
BS.
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; it didn't. I just thought maybe, you know, he just left a little bit earlier but when I looked up and saw that the clock was. I knew I was the one who was running a little bit late because, as I say, I was talking, sitting there eating breakfast and talking to the little nieces, it was later than I thought it was.
And later in the testimony…
Mr. BALL - Were you later than usual that morning?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't believe we were, because we got to work on time. I say, when I looked at the clock, after I glanced he was there a split second and I just turned around and looked at the clock to see what time it was and it was right amount (around) 7:21
BS.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 10:59 pm
Mick Purdy
Don’t be tempted to underestimate the value of the crooked testimony of Linnie Mae Randle when she uttered the words to Ball,
"at that moment I wondered who was fixing to come to my back door so I opened the door slightly"
That is an enormous lie! And IMO suggests persuasively that she helped frame Oswald. We know if her story about seeing Lee crossing that Street were true, then there would have never been a reason to "see who was fixing to come to her back door."
And she also would have known who it was because she already knew Wes was driving Lee to work from the supposed chat about it the night before.
It is that simple IMO.
If what she said under oath was true then it’s reprehensible and inconceivable Randle wasn’t cautioned at that moment by her examiner Mr. Ball.
That one sentence, as Ball would have known, should have placed her sighting of Lee crossing that Street with a package in jeopardy.
That one tiny itty bitty tiny wincy lie, allowed a free pass by Ball, was instrumental in helping to create the Legend of a gun toting LHO.
It’s Randle’s ever so damaging testimony of peering through that kitchen door albeit only briefly, but long enough to see Oswald walk to the car, and place a package on either the floor or back seat of Wes’s car.
This coupled with Frazier’s lie which we know about thanks to Edward Shield’s HSCA interview about the TSBD parking lot 1 walk into the building which lends enormous weight to my contention IMO to the Fact Oswald did not drive with Frazier
The real issue now IMO is to discover why Frazier and Randle lied, and get someone to ask him while he's still alive.
Don’t be tempted to underestimate the value of the crooked testimony of Linnie Mae Randle when she uttered the words to Ball,
"at that moment I wondered who was fixing to come to my back door so I opened the door slightly"
That is an enormous lie! And IMO suggests persuasively that she helped frame Oswald. We know if her story about seeing Lee crossing that Street were true, then there would have never been a reason to "see who was fixing to come to her back door."
And she also would have known who it was because she already knew Wes was driving Lee to work from the supposed chat about it the night before.
It is that simple IMO.
If what she said under oath was true then it’s reprehensible and inconceivable Randle wasn’t cautioned at that moment by her examiner Mr. Ball.
That one sentence, as Ball would have known, should have placed her sighting of Lee crossing that Street with a package in jeopardy.
That one tiny itty bitty tiny wincy lie, allowed a free pass by Ball, was instrumental in helping to create the Legend of a gun toting LHO.
It’s Randle’s ever so damaging testimony of peering through that kitchen door albeit only briefly, but long enough to see Oswald walk to the car, and place a package on either the floor or back seat of Wes’s car.
This coupled with Frazier’s lie which we know about thanks to Edward Shield’s HSCA interview about the TSBD parking lot 1 walk into the building which lends enormous weight to my contention IMO to the Fact Oswald did not drive with Frazier
The real issue now IMO is to discover why Frazier and Randle lied, and get someone to ask him while he's still alive.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:02 pm
Lee Farley
Mick,
It is that simple. All the rest, although important to work through, is smoke and mirrors. She knew Oswald and she knew Oswald was being taken to work. All the bollocks about peering through windows, opening doors and acting all cloak and dagger is shite. Didn't happen.
Did you know that in the damn-awful mini-series The Kennedy's they actually got the story right? See if you can look it up on YouTube. As far as I'm concerned they nailed the morning lift to work from a logistics perspective—minus the giant rifle of course.
You've done excellent work on this. A summary post is needed to gather all the pertinent points.
Mick,
It is that simple. All the rest, although important to work through, is smoke and mirrors. She knew Oswald and she knew Oswald was being taken to work. All the bollocks about peering through windows, opening doors and acting all cloak and dagger is shite. Didn't happen.
Did you know that in the damn-awful mini-series The Kennedy's they actually got the story right? See if you can look it up on YouTube. As far as I'm concerned they nailed the morning lift to work from a logistics perspective—minus the giant rifle of course.
You've done excellent work on this. A summary post is needed to gather all the pertinent points.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:06 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Lee Farley
Mick,
It is that simple. All the rest, although important to work through, is smoke and mirrors. She knew Oswald and she knew Oswald was being taken to work. All the bollocks about peering through windows, opening doors and acting all cloak and dagger is shite. Didn't happen.
Did you know that in the damn-awful mini-series The Kennedy's they actually got the story right? See if you can look it up on YouTube. As far as I'm concerned they nailed the morning lift to work from a logistics perspective—minus the giant rifle of course.
You've done excellent work on this. A summary post is needed to gather all the pertinent points.
Mick Purdy
Thanks for the heads up mate with "The Kennedy's." I'll have a look.
You're right about the smoke and mirrors. Once you "let go" of what has become entrenched in the story things start to make much more sense.
Still what we're left with is still bloody confusing at times. I'm sure those who put the cover story together have a a good chuckle over the years watching the circus. Only problem for those who were involved is slowly, through some magnificent efforts by some individuals researching this cold case is that it's starting to unravel, finally. I mean take a look at Murphy's work on Prayer Man and the lunchroom, yours too on Beckley and other extremely important matters, Greg's tireless work on Oswald and his history, and Ed Ledoux's Transit ticket thread.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:16 pm
Mick Purdy
Colin,
Did Linnie Mae have a car of her own.....I'm curious.
Have you read that somewhere? Would love to know if she did or not.
Colin Crow wrote:As an aside. Randle claims to be on her way to go to the grocery store on Thursday evening. Where was she going to (or coming from) in her car about 3pm Friday? More groceries? Where/how did she contact Frazier? We know they had contact after the shooting and before arriving at the Paine's because she knew he was at the hospital. Do you think Oswald was mentioned in that conversation?
Colin,
Did Linnie Mae have a car of her own.....I'm curious.
Have you read that somewhere? Would love to know if she did or not.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:18 pm
Colin Crow
I'm not sure Mick, but she did claim to be driving around 5 on Thursday and the DPD claimed she drove up to the Paine's. How did husband Bill travel that day?
I'm not sure Mick, but she did claim to be driving around 5 on Thursday and the DPD claimed she drove up to the Paine's. How did husband Bill travel that day?
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:19 pm
Mick Purdy
An often overlooked and possibly understated fact is that Linnie Mae was William Randle's wife. Wesley was Linnie's brother and Williams brother in law. Those three in their own respective ways had much to do with Friday the 22nd 1963......of which in my opinion Oswald suffered immeasurably as a consequence
An often overlooked and possibly understated fact is that Linnie Mae was William Randle's wife. Wesley was Linnie's brother and Williams brother in law. Those three in their own respective ways had much to do with Friday the 22nd 1963......of which in my opinion Oswald suffered immeasurably as a consequence
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:21 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Colin Crow
I'm not sure Mick, but she did claim to be driving around 5 on Thursday and the DPD claimed she drove up to the Paine's. How did husband Bill travel that day?
Mick Purdy
Have you got a source for that? I'm very keen to establish this. It'd be great if you had something.
Sorry Colin it's becoming important to me, cause I am convinced there's something in the car thing......just a hunch at the moment.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:22 pm
Mick Purdy
How about we put together a Wesley Question thread. In oder of priority....it'd be long I'm sure but worthwhile.
How about we put together a Wesley Question thread. In oder of priority....it'd be long I'm sure but worthwhile.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:24 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Lee Farley
My all time favourite segment of bullshit from the bullshitter known as Linnie Mae Randle:
How dare that motherfucker wave at the sister of the guy who allegedly gave him a lift to work. Low-life, dirty, scumbag, son-of-bitch. Waving!!! Whatever next? Saying hello?
Mick Purdy
Yes, this is my favourite piece of shite from the evidence too........it's simply beautiful.
And if it doesn't sing the lying tune I'm hearing for you guys with the title "the whole fucking things bullshit" then I'll crawl back under my rock.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:26 pm
Mick Purdy
Ed Ledoux
Member
Posts: 228
UNK>> OKAY. YOU'RE IN YOUR CAR, YOU HEAR ON THE RADIO THAT PRESIDENT KENNEDY HAS BEEN PRONOUNCED DEAD.
BWF>> YES.
UNK>> YOU'RE ON YOUR WAY BACK HOME TO IRVING.
BWF>> YES.
UNK>> WHEN YOU GOT HOME, WHO WAS THERE? YOUR SISTER, WAS SHE THERE WITH THE KIDS?
BWF>>WELL, I DIDN'T GO DIRECTLY HOME. WHAT I DID WAS I STOPPED BY THE HOSPITAL WHERE MY STEPFATHER -- HE AND MY MOTHER WERE UP VISITING MY SISTER AND HER HUSBAND AND CHILDREN, AND HE HAD HAD A HEART ATTACK. I KNOW HE HAD SEVERAL HEART ATTACKS BEFORE HE PASSED AWAY, BUT HE WAS IN THERE AND THEY WERE TREATING HIM, I THINK, FOR HEART FAILURE.
Ed Ledoux
Member
Posts: 228
UNK>> OKAY. YOU'RE IN YOUR CAR, YOU HEAR ON THE RADIO THAT PRESIDENT KENNEDY HAS BEEN PRONOUNCED DEAD.
BWF>> YES.
UNK>> YOU'RE ON YOUR WAY BACK HOME TO IRVING.
BWF>> YES.
UNK>> WHEN YOU GOT HOME, WHO WAS THERE? YOUR SISTER, WAS SHE THERE WITH THE KIDS?
BWF>>WELL, I DIDN'T GO DIRECTLY HOME. WHAT I DID WAS I STOPPED BY THE HOSPITAL WHERE MY STEPFATHER -- HE AND MY MOTHER WERE UP VISITING MY SISTER AND HER HUSBAND AND CHILDREN, AND HE HAD HAD A HEART ATTACK. I KNOW HE HAD SEVERAL HEART ATTACKS BEFORE HE PASSED AWAY, BUT HE WAS IN THERE AND THEY WERE TREATING HIM, I THINK, FOR HEART FAILURE.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:27 pm
Mick Purdy
Most people I suspect on this forum support the idea that Prayer Man is Oswald, I know I do. Then by extension Wes was lying through his teeth by omission, about who was up there on those little ol' TSBD steps. And as has been eluded to in that awkward moment from his testimony when Wes was asked who was there, and he almost let it slip.
I've studied him closely; I believe he is a consummate liar and one of the great story tellers rambling and all. This is his gift to us as we try and unravel the mess.
Not much of that morning makes any sense, but to have him answer questions under the right conditions, now whilst he's still upright and breathing would I'm sure go some way in helping us better understand the Randle Residence and its occupants.
Most people I suspect on this forum support the idea that Prayer Man is Oswald, I know I do. Then by extension Wes was lying through his teeth by omission, about who was up there on those little ol' TSBD steps. And as has been eluded to in that awkward moment from his testimony when Wes was asked who was there, and he almost let it slip.
I've studied him closely; I believe he is a consummate liar and one of the great story tellers rambling and all. This is his gift to us as we try and unravel the mess.
Not much of that morning makes any sense, but to have him answer questions under the right conditions, now whilst he's still upright and breathing would I'm sure go some way in helping us better understand the Randle Residence and its occupants.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:29 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Colin Crow
I'm not sure Mick, but she did claim to be driving around 5 on Thursday and the DPD claimed she drove up to the Paine's. How did husband Bill travel that day?
Mick Purdy
Have you got a source for that? I'm very keen to establish this. It'd be great if you had something.
Sorry Colin it's becoming important to me, cause I am convinced there's something in the car thing......just a hunch at the moment.
Colin Crow
Ok, upon a reread it appears I assumed she was driving to the groceries on Thursday.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him arrive with Lee?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you recall on a Thursday night, November 21 that you saw Lee get out of Wesley's car?
Mrs. RANDLE. That is right.
Mr. BALL. About what time of night was it?
Mrs. RANDLE. About 5:20, I believe, 5:15 or 5:25 something like that.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you saw him?
Mrs. RANDLE. I was on my way to the grocery store.
Definitely driving Friday afternoon.
Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't recall then at all. I left the house after awhile and went with, I believe it was, Mrs. Paine. I went with her to one of the neighbor houses to see about the children, leaving the children there. I left and went with her.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. ADAMCIK. Coming back, Mrs. Frazier, I believe it was, drove up to the house as I was coming back with--no, it was Mrs. Bill Randle. She (Mrs. Randle) was a neighbor there and she was driving up to the house, so I asked her whether she knew anything about what had happened, and whether she had seen Lee Oswald, and she did tell me that Lee Oswald rode to work with her brother, which is Wesley Frazier, who was staying with her, and he rode to work with him that morning. She told me that she saw--she was up early in the morning and was drinking coffee, and saw Lee Harvey Oswald go across the front yard, across the yard carrying like a long package wrapped in something, carrying it from the Paine house to Wesley's car.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:32 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy
Ed Ledoux
Member
Posts: 228
UNK>> OKAY. YOU'RE IN YOUR CAR, YOU HEAR ON THE RADIO THAT PRESIDENT KENNEDY HAS BEEN PRONOUNCED DEAD.
BWF>> YES.
UNK>> YOU'RE ON YOUR WAY BACK HOME TO IRVING.
BWF>> YES.
UNK>> WHEN YOU GOT HOME, WHO WAS THERE? YOUR SISTER, WAS SHE THERE WITH THE KIDS?
BWF>>WELL, I DIDN'T GO DIRECTLY HOME. WHAT I DID WAS I STOPPED BY THE HOSPITAL WHERE MY STEPFATHER -- HE AND MY MOTHER WERE UP VISITING MY SISTER AND HER HUSBAND AND CHILDREN, AND HE HAD HAD A HEART ATTACK. I KNOW HE HAD SEVERAL HEART ATTACKS BEFORE HE PASSED AWAY, BUT HE WAS IN THERE AND THEY WERE TREATING HIM, I THINK, FOR HEART FAILURE.
Colin Crow
Frazier's story about leaving the TSBD and deciding to visit the stepfather is pure BS. He avoids admitting talking to his sister before getting there. The timing is all wrong. He claims to have heard Oswald mentioned by name on the radio. This occurred about 2.40. If he left the TSBD shortly after the roll call it was likely around 1.30. The trip home to Irving was about 25 minutes. The hospital was a 3 minute drive from the Randle home. He effectively loses an hour or more of time. LMR turned up at the Paine's around 3 pm, maybe before. The bag is photographed outside the TSBD at 3 pm.
This is worth a watch......each time the guy talks a bit more slips out.....he is definitely fearful for his family IMO. He is definite the bag does not contain the rifle. In my view, if he was involved in framing Oswald this would not be his story.
https://youtu.be/nuGxpK_Qp30
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:34 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Colin Crow
I'm not sure Mick, but she did claim to be driving around 5 on Thursday and the DPD claimed she drove up to the Paine's. How did husband Bill travel that day?
Mick Purdy
Have you got a source for that? I'm very keen to establish this. It'd be great if you had something.
Sorry Colin it's becoming important to me, cause I am convinced there's something in the car thing......just a hunch at the moment.
Colin Crow
Ok, upon a reread it appears I assumed she was driving to the groceries on Thursday.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him arrive with Lee?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you recall on a Thursday night, November 21 that you saw Lee get out of Wesley's car?
Mrs. RANDLE. That is right.
Mr. BALL. About what time of night was it?
Mrs. RANDLE. About 5:20, I believe, 5:15 or 5:25 something like that.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you saw him?
Mrs. RANDLE. I was on my way to the grocery store.
Definitely driving Friday afternoon.
Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't recall then at all. I left the house after awhile and went with, I believe it was, Mrs. Paine. I went with her to one of the neighbor houses to see about the children, leaving the children there. I left and went with her.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. ADAMCIK. Coming back, Mrs. Frazier, I believe it was, drove up to the house as I was coming back with--no, it was Mrs. Bill Randle. She (Mrs. Randle) was a neighbor there and she was driving up to the house, so I asked her whether she knew anything about what had happened, and whether she had seen Lee Oswald, and she did tell me that Lee Oswald rode to work with her brother, which is Wesley Frazier, who was staying with her, and he rode to work with him that morning. She told me that she saw--she was up early in the morning and was drinking coffee, and saw Lee Harvey Oswald go across the front yard, across the yard carrying like a long package wrapped in something, carrying it from the Paine house to Wesley's car.
Mick Purdy
Thanks Colin that's great.....
Do you read this as if Linnie is driving a car ?
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 3:15 am
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy
Ed Ledoux
Member
Posts: 228
UNK>> OKAY. YOU'RE IN YOUR CAR, YOU HEAR ON THE RADIO THAT PRESIDENT KENNEDY HAS BEEN PRONOUNCED DEAD.
BWF>> YES.
UNK>> YOU'RE ON YOUR WAY BACK HOME TO IRVING.
BWF>> YES.
UNK>> WHEN YOU GOT HOME, WHO WAS THERE? YOUR SISTER, WAS SHE THERE WITH THE KIDS?
BWF>>WELL, I DIDN'T GO DIRECTLY HOME. WHAT I DID WAS I STOPPED BY THE HOSPITAL WHERE MY STEPFATHER -- HE AND MY MOTHER WERE UP VISITING MY SISTER AND HER HUSBAND AND CHILDREN, AND HE HAD HAD A HEART ATTACK. I KNOW HE HAD SEVERAL HEART ATTACKS BEFORE HE PASSED AWAY, BUT HE WAS IN THERE AND THEY WERE TREATING HIM, I THINK, FOR HEART FAILURE.
Colin Crow
Frazier's story about leaving the TSBD and deciding to visit the stepfather is pure BS. He avoids admitting talking to his sister before getting there. The timing is all wrong. He claims to have heard Oswald mentioned by name on the radio. This occurred about 2.40. If he left the TSBD shortly after the roll call it was likely around 1.30. The trip home to Irving was about 25 minutes. The hospital was a 3 minute drive from the Randle home. He effectively loses an hour or more of time. LMR turned up at the Paine's around 3 pm, maybe before. The bag is photographed outside the TSBD at 3 pm.
This is worth a watch......each time the guy talks a bit more slips out.....he is definitely fearful for his family IMO. He is definite the bag does not contain the rifle. In my view, if he was involved in framing Oswald this would not be his story.
https://youtu.be/nuGxpK_Qp30
Mick Purdy
Agreed, I've said more than once Wes could have been coerced or blackmailed into his role, his behaviour post assassination points to some form of guilt if you ask me.
And yes his story for his whereabouts immediately after the shots were fired is pure fiction
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 3:17 am
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy
Ed Ledoux
Member
Posts: 228
UNK>> OKAY. YOU'RE IN YOUR CAR, YOU HEAR ON THE RADIO THAT PRESIDENT KENNEDY HAS BEEN PRONOUNCED DEAD.
BWF>> YES.
UNK>> YOU'RE ON YOUR WAY BACK HOME TO IRVING.
BWF>> YES.
UNK>> WHEN YOU GOT HOME, WHO WAS THERE? YOUR SISTER, WAS SHE THERE WITH THE KIDS?
BWF>>WELL, I DIDN'T GO DIRECTLY HOME. WHAT I DID WAS I STOPPED BY THE HOSPITAL WHERE MY STEPFATHER -- HE AND MY MOTHER WERE UP VISITING MY SISTER AND HER HUSBAND AND CHILDREN, AND HE HAD HAD A HEART ATTACK. I KNOW HE HAD SEVERAL HEART ATTACKS BEFORE HE PASSED AWAY, BUT HE WAS IN THERE AND THEY WERE TREATING HIM, I THINK, FOR HEART FAILURE.
Colin Crow
Frazier's story about leaving the TSBD and deciding to visit the stepfather is pure BS. He avoids admitting talking to his sister before getting there. The timing is all wrong. He claims to have heard Oswald mentioned by name on the radio. This occurred about 2.40. If he left the TSBD shortly after the roll call it was likely around 1.30. The trip home to Irving was about 25 minutes. The hospital was a 3 minute drive from the Randle home. He effectively loses an hour or more of time. LMR turned up at the Paine's around 3 pm, maybe before. The bag is photographed outside the TSBD at 3 pm.
This is worth a watch......each time the guy talks a bit more slips out.....he is definitely fearful for his family IMO. He is definite the bag does not contain the rifle. In my view, if he was involved in framing Oswald this would not be his story.
https://youtu.be/nuGxpK_Qp30
Mick Purdy
Agreed, I've said more than once Wes could have been coerced or blackmailed into his role, his behaviour post assassination points to some form of guilt if you ask me.
And yes his story for his whereabouts immediately after the shots were fired is pure fiction
Colin Crow
Certainly on Friday afternoon. Maybe not on Thursday on the way to the groceries. Question is, was she going somewhere or coming home from somewhere when she dropped into the Paine's? I believe Pat Speer has posted that a friend of Randle's daughter said she remembers LMR talking to the cops on her way home from School at about 2.30!
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 3:19 am
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy
Ed Ledoux
Member
Posts: 228
UNK>> OKAY. YOU'RE IN YOUR CAR, YOU HEAR ON THE RADIO THAT PRESIDENT KENNEDY HAS BEEN PRONOUNCED DEAD.
BWF>> YES.
UNK>> YOU'RE ON YOUR WAY BACK HOME TO IRVING.
BWF>> YES.
UNK>> WHEN YOU GOT HOME, WHO WAS THERE? YOUR SISTER, WAS SHE THERE WITH THE KIDS?
BWF>>WELL, I DIDN'T GO DIRECTLY HOME. WHAT I DID WAS I STOPPED BY THE HOSPITAL WHERE MY STEPFATHER -- HE AND MY MOTHER WERE UP VISITING MY SISTER AND HER HUSBAND AND CHILDREN, AND HE HAD HAD A HEART ATTACK. I KNOW HE HAD SEVERAL HEART ATTACKS BEFORE HE PASSED AWAY, BUT HE WAS IN THERE AND THEY WERE TREATING HIM, I THINK, FOR HEART FAILURE.
Colin Crow
Frazier's story about leaving the TSBD and deciding to visit the stepfather is pure BS. He avoids admitting talking to his sister before getting there. The timing is all wrong. He claims to have heard Oswald mentioned by name on the radio. This occurred about 2.40. If he left the TSBD shortly after the roll call it was likely around 1.30. The trip home to Irving was about 25 minutes. The hospital was a 3 minute drive from the Randle home. He effectively loses an hour or more of time. LMR turned up at the Paine's around 3 pm, maybe before. The bag is photographed outside the TSBD at 3 pm.
This is worth a watch......each time the guy talks a bit more slips out.....he is definitely fearful for his family IMO. He is definite the bag does not contain the rifle. In my view, if he was involved in framing Oswald this would not be his story.
https://youtu.be/nuGxpK_Qp30
Mick Purdy
Agreed, I've said more than once Wes could have been coerced or blackmailed into his role, his behaviour post assassination points to some form of guilt if you ask me.
And yes his story for his whereabouts immediately after the shots were fired is pure fiction
Colin Crow
Certainly on Friday afternoon. Maybe not on Thursday on the way to the groceries. Question is, was she going somewhere or coming home from somewhere when she dropped into the Paine's? I believe Pat Speer has posted that a friend of Randle's daughter said she remembers LMR talking to the cops on her way home from School at about 2.30!
Mick Purdy
2.30 pm I've always thought it was a lot earlier than has commonly been publicised.
The bigger question this raises is what the hell were the cops and the sheriffs all doing at Irving so early......the timeline on this stinks too.
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