Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

First topic message reminder :

This is full rebuild of the hugely popular thread created by Mick Purdy at the Webs forum in February 2015. – Stan

Mick Purdy

I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.

I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.

I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.

I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.

I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.

Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.

The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.

Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.

Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.
  
From the HSCA interview of Shields
 

SHIELDS: I think Charles Givens hollered out there and asked Frazier where was his rider and he told him: "I dropped him off at the building." Yeah, that was it...Well, I was down on the floor when they hollered out and said and the answer he gave them, I don't know, I think he said: "I dropped him off at the building." Now, whoever it was hollering asked him, I don't know.
DAY: This is the morning of the assassination?
SHIELDS: Mm-hmm.
DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."
SHIELDS: Yes.
DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?
SHIELDS: No I didn’t.

 
To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.

Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.

In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.

This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.

The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………
 
An alternative scenario

Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)

What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!

Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.

Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. What follows is some of my conjecture.

Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.

Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."

Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?

I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement.

Stan Dane
 
Albert Rossi on Tue 30 Sep 2014 said:
 
    Hi all. I was at the AARC. I figured I might as well try it again, so I approached Buell with the
    Robin Unger enhancement of the Darnell frame on my laptop desktop, and asked him
    1. if that was him
    2. who the other figure was.
    He admitted 1. was him.
    He said 2. was not clear enough for certain identification, but it probably wasn't Lovelady
    because by that time he had taken off with Shelley for the RR yard.
 
and
 
    Yes, it was a bit funny because I first asked him if he could identify
    Prayer Man, and while he was mulling it over, I said to him, pointing
    to his image, "By the way, Mr. Frazier, is that you?" To that he
    responded, "very probably ... look at the hairline." So yes, he seemed
    to be in a more forthcoming mood at that point.
    When he was answering questions after his talk (he repeatedly got choked
    up as if withholding tears as he spoke of the events of that day), Jim
    D had to leave the hall and asked me to ask him about where the polygraph
    results went. When i did, he responded that others have asked him the same
    question and that he really didn't know.

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t388p840-prayer-man-on-the-education-forum#13667

Mick Purdy
 


Thanks Stan.

Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane
 
Albert Rossi on Tue 30 Sep 2014 said:
 
    Hi all. I was at the AARC. I figured I might as well try it again, so I approached Buell with the
    Robin Unger enhancement of the Darnell frame on my laptop desktop, and asked him
    1. if that was him
    2. who the other figure was.
    He admitted 1. was him.
    He said 2. was not clear enough for certain identification, but it probably wasn't Lovelady
    because by that time he had taken off with Shelley for the RR yard.
 
and
 
    Yes, it was a bit funny because I first asked him if he could identify
    Prayer Man, and while he was mulling it over, I said to him, pointing
    to his image, "By the way, Mr. Frazier, is that you?" To that he
    responded, "very probably ... look at the hairline." So yes, he seemed
    to be in a more forthcoming mood at that point.
    When he was answering questions after his talk (he repeatedly got choked
    up as if withholding tears as he spoke of the events of that day), Jim
    D had to leave the hall and asked me to ask him about where the polygraph
    results went. When i did, he responded that others have asked him the same
    question and that he really didn't know.

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t388p840-prayer-man-on-the-education-forum#13667

Mick Purdy

Thanks for posting this Stan, it re affirms that he has admitted to knowing where he is in the pic, and that IMO it is inconceivable he doesn't know who the person is on his right hand side, the person whom he appears to be talking with in the moving pictures of the same event. This moment captured on film was after all immediately after the shots, it beggars belief he cannot identify that person next to him IMHO.

Barto

Here in BWF rer-enacting to painstaking accuracy his ride....

Stan Dane wrote:Barto

Here in BWF rer-enacting to painstaking accuracy his ride....

Smee

He's done it so many times over the years that I suspect he probably believes it himself now...

Johnny Hartley

One of the things I love about the internet is the way people can link things together that have puzzled me.  I have wondered about Frazier going downstairs for a meal after the President was shot.  I mean, the President gets shot, and instead of excitedly talking about it with colleagues or family, he says he went off for a meal.

So this post on another site struck me as so intriguing, as it knits together so many aspects.  So did Frazier disappear after the shooting to hide the rifle that had been dropped down the elevator shaft?"
 
In my opinion, Frazier had to be an actor in the conspiracy. He was not a kingpin, not a planner, but a pawn on the chessboard. Given this conclusion of mine, I think that his lunch in the basement after the shooting needs to be considered.
Another of my conclusions is that Oswald was standing out on the steps during the shooting, and did not fire a shot. From here, things get more speculative. There is much to suggest that a rifle other than "Oswald's" was used to shoot from the building. I'm not going to go over all of that evidence, but there is much of it, some of it stronger than others. If there was another rifle used, then it had to go somewhere. I doubt that Malcolm Wallace, or whoever, simply ran down the steps and out the building carrying a rifle, though I do remember a supposed witness to such an event. I just don't think that happened, and I think a conspiracy to kill the president would have a better plan to dispose of such a weapon.

So, if you're up on the 5th or 6th floor, and you've just fired your 3 shots and you need to get rid of your rifle, what's the best way to do so without being see? You're not going to run out with it. You're not going to hide it near where you shot. You're not going to throw it out the window. This rifle can't be found if your patsy is going to be blamed. All that can be found is the rusty old Italian sweetheart that Alek Hidell bought through the mail. What could you do with the gun in that situation? Why, silly, just drop it down the elevator shaft...to the basement. Of course, any decent conspiracy using this plan would have a prepared hiding spot in the basement. The cops aren't likely to spend much time looking there, anyway, but you want to be careful.

Why not have that dumb kid go down to the basement after the shooting to hide the rifle? Sure, he might have to turn off the power to the elevators before he climbs into the shaft to get it, but nobody will think that's weird. And, it just so happens, that the power was turned off to the elevators just after the shooting. Witnesses said that the elevators were not operating. And I don't mean that the elevators wouldn't come. One girl got on an elevator on the first floor with a cop, and the thing would not run. The power had been turned off. Maybe, that's when Frazier was retrieving the rifle from the elevator shaft. Just a thought. There's probably only one person alive who could confirm my speculation on this point, and I'm not going to hold my breath."

Stan Dane wrote:Johnny Hartley

One of the things I love about the internet is the way people can link things together that have puzzled me.  I have wondered about Frazier going downstairs for a meal after the President was shot.  I mean, the President gets shot, and instead of excitedly talking about it with colleagues or family, he says he went off for a meal.

So this post on another site struck me as so intriguing, as it knits together so many aspects.  So did Frazier disappear after the shooting to hide the rifle that had been dropped down the elevator shaft?"
 
In my opinion, Frazier had to be an actor in the conspiracy. He was not a kingpin, not a planner, but a pawn on the chessboard. Given this conclusion of mine, I think that his lunch in the basement after the shooting needs to be considered.
Another of my conclusions is that Oswald was standing out on the steps during the shooting, and did not fire a shot. From here, things get more speculative. There is much to suggest that a rifle other than "Oswald's" was used to shoot from the building. I'm not going to go over all of that evidence, but there is much of it, some of it stronger than others. If there was another rifle used, then it had to go somewhere. I doubt that Malcolm Wallace, or whoever, simply ran down the steps and out the building carrying a rifle, though I do remember a supposed witness to such an event. I just don't think that happened, and I think a conspiracy to kill the president would have a better plan to dispose of such a weapon.

So, if you're up on the 5th or 6th floor, and you've just fired your 3 shots and you need to get rid of your rifle, what's the best way to do so without being see? You're not going to run out with it. You're not going to hide it near where you shot. You're not going to throw it out the window. This rifle can't be found if your patsy is going to be blamed. All that can be found is the rusty old Italian sweetheart that Alek Hidell bought through the mail. What could you do with the gun in that situation? Why, silly, just drop it down the elevator shaft...to the basement. Of course, any decent conspiracy using this plan would have a prepared hiding spot in the basement. The cops aren't likely to spend much time looking there, anyway, but you want to be careful.

Why not have that dumb kid go down to the basement after the shooting to hide the rifle? Sure, he might have to turn off the power to the elevators before he climbs into the shaft to get it, but nobody will think that's weird. And, it just so happens, that the power was turned off to the elevators just after the shooting. Witnesses said that the elevators were not operating. And I don't mean that the elevators wouldn't come. One girl got on an elevator on the first floor with a cop, and the thing would not run. The power had been turned off. Maybe, that's when Frazier was retrieving the rifle from the elevator shaft. Just a thought. There's probably only one person alive who could confirm my speculation on this point, and I'm not going to hold my breath."

Terry Martin

Interesting, Johnny.

It would explain the disappearance of the real rifle - that is, if there actually was a shot taken from inside the building - and gives a plausible reason for the elevators to have offline for a time.

Sweet!

Greg Parker

There was also a dumb waiter that went down to the basement. Not sure how far up it went, though...possibly just to the first floor... but may have played some part getting rifle in or out unseen?

Johnny Hartley

Frazier has played the role of innocent victim in the case,  telling us how he was cruelly treated by the Dallas Police, who had a confession prepared for him to sign.  Except, there is no independent proof of this. Did he make this up, to deflect atention and gain sympathy. The police never said he was a suspect.  And was calm Fritzy the sort of guy to want to smash a suspect the way Frazier says Fritzy was about to hit him?

He failed lie detectors, went unaccountably missing after the shooting, was familiar with guns, associated with Oswald, clearly has changed his version of events many times, Had he got involved with Oswald in the plot?  Like Paine he is teflon coated.

Vinny

http://www.richmond.com/news/special-report/jfk/people/article_a9be7f2e-fb7f-5357-91c9-605df00641f7.html
 
That afternoon, about two hours after the assassination, police arrested Frazier as a suspected accomplice of Oswald’s — and he was treated as such. He was fingerprinted, photographed and forced to take a lie detector test.
 
"I was interrogated and questioned for many, many hours," Frazier said. "Interrogators would rotate."
 
Dallas police Capt. Will Fritz, who was in charge of the homicide department, came into the room with a typed statement. He handed Frazier a pen and demanded he sign it. It was a confession. Frazier refused.

"This was ridiculous," he said. "Captain Fritz got very red-faced, and he put up his hand to hit me and I put my arm up to block. I told him we'd have a hell of a fight and I would get some good licks in on him. Then he stormed out the door."
Frazier never saw him again.
 
At around 3 a.m. the next day, police let Frazier go.

"The way they treated me that day, I have a hard time understanding that," he said. "I was a rural boy; I had never been in trouble with the law. I was doing my best to answer their questions."

Although he was never charged, Frazier was still guilty in the eyes of many. For years, he had trouble finding work. His reputation in Dallas was tainted for decades. At 69, he still works.
 
And now, 50 years after Kennedy’s assassination, he said he’s still not convinced the man he drove to work so many times was the killer.
 
But there's one thing he claims to know for certain: that the package Oswald put on the back seat of his car that morning was not a rifle.
 
"It wasn't long enough to put that type of rifle in that bag. There is no way it would fit in that package," he said.
 
Over the years, many assassination researchers have come to him to ask about Oswald. Once in a while, he accepts an invitation to join a panel discussion. But he tries to keep his recognition in perspective.

"I'm just a normal, everyday person. I haven't let this thing change me one way or the other. I'm still the same guy," he said. "I'm just a little bit more cautious about who I talk to."

Stan Dane wrote:Vinny

http://www.richmond.com/news/special-report/jfk/people/article_a9be7f2e-fb7f-5357-91c9-605df00641f7.html
 
That afternoon, about two hours after the assassination, police arrested Frazier as a suspected accomplice of Oswald’s — and he was treated as such. He was fingerprinted, photographed and forced to take a lie detector test.
 
"I was interrogated and questioned for many, many hours," Frazier said. "Interrogators would rotate."
 
Dallas police Capt. Will Fritz, who was in charge of the homicide department, came into the room with a typed statement. He handed Frazier a pen and demanded he sign it. It was a confession. Frazier refused.

"This was ridiculous," he said. "Captain Fritz got very red-faced, and he put up his hand to hit me and I put my arm up to block. I told him we'd have a hell of a fight and I would get some good licks in on him. Then he stormed out the door."
Frazier never saw him again.
 
At around 3 a.m. the next day, police let Frazier go.

"The way they treated me that day, I have a hard time understanding that," he said. "I was a rural boy; I had never been in trouble with the law. I was doing my best to answer their questions."

Although he was never charged, Frazier was still guilty in the eyes of many. For years, he had trouble finding work. His reputation in Dallas was tainted for decades. At 69, he still works.
 
And now, 50 years after Kennedy’s assassination, he said he’s still not convinced the man he drove to work so many times was the killer.
 
But there's one thing he claims to know for certain: that the package Oswald put on the back seat of his car that morning was not a rifle.
 
"It wasn't long enough to put that type of rifle in that bag. There is no way it would fit in that package," he said.
 
Over the years, many assassination researchers have come to him to ask about Oswald. Once in a while, he accepts an invitation to join a panel discussion. But he tries to keep his recognition in perspective.

"I'm just a normal, everyday person. I haven't let this thing change me one way or the other. I'm still the same guy," he said. "I'm just a little bit more cautious about who I talk to."

Mick Purdy

Vinny are you sure about these statements are you sure of these facts?

That afternoon, about two hours after the assassination, police arrested Frazier as a suspected accomplice of Oswald’s — and he was treated as such. He was fingerprinted, photographed and forced to take a lie detector test.

From what I've read Frazier wasn't arrested until much later, Frazier was arrested  but we have four different versions of this,and we have only his version on the lie detector test notwithstanding police statements and records, but can they be believed?

I ain't and never have bought his story about the sack, so for me it matters not that he talks about Lee not having a rifle, Lee had NO sack so all of Frazier's hot air and bluster about "it couldn't have been a rifle" is a deflection IMHO....I know its hard to get our heads around but there was NO sack. My point is that once that's decided then everything else about the sack is pointless....

It was a crafty piece of bullshit aimed to frame Lee and both Frazier and his sister went to town on this.....Hell Linnie Mae at one point had the bag 3 and 1/2 feet long...WTH, Frazier was oh so clever in stating the bag was 2 feet long folded at the top and folded over at the bottom.

He and he alone sunk LHO in that carpark charade bag and all.............

Frazier has played us for suckers all along, he plays the poor dumb bloke who was there in the wrong place at the wrong time just being the nice bloke and giving Lee a ride to work.....Please!

The whole "woe is me" is a fraud IMO

Linnie and Wes lied and Lee died, plain and simple. No bag, no ride, and to top it off I really believe Wes drove off with Lee after the assassination.

Pure speculation of course.

Stan Dane wrote:Johnny Hartley

Frazier has played the role of innocent victim in the case,  telling us how he was cruelly treated by the Dallas Police, who had a confession prepared for him to sign.  Except, there is no independent proof of this. Did he make this up, to deflect atention and gain sympathy. The police never said he was a suspect.  And was calm Fritzy the sort of guy to want to smash a suspect the way Frazier says Fritzy was about to hit him?

He failed lie detectors, went unaccountably missing after the shooting, was familiar with guns, associated with Oswald, clearly has changed his version of events many times, Had he got involved with Oswald in the plot?  Like Paine he is teflon coated.

Mick Purdy

Had he got involved with Oswald in the plot?

Um what are we suggesting here?

Vinny

Hi Mick:

That was just an excerpt from an article from 2013. I did not mean to imply that I agreed with it. I agree with you about Frazier. I don't believe there ever was a sack or paper bag.

I am quite doubtful about the recent story he told about Fritz as well. I wish the Dallas District Attorney could somehow be persuaded to have a trial with Frazier etc being asked to testify.

Stan Dane wrote:Vinny

Hi Mick:

That was just an excerpt from an article from 2013. I did not mean to imply that I agreed with it. I agree with you about Frazier. I don't believe there ever was a sack or paper bag.

I am quite doubtful about the recent story he told about Fritz as well. I wish the Dallas District Attorney could somehow be persuaded to have a trial with Frazier etc being asked to testify.

Mick Purdy

G'day Vinny,

I sort of thought that but it was this line which threw me a bit,

That afternoon, about two hours after the assassination, police arrested Frazier as a suspected accomplice of Oswald’s — and he was treated as such. He was fingerprinted, photographed and forced to take a lie detector test.

I don't believe a word of the timing on the arrest or the version of events regarding the lie detector test. The whole thing about driving Wes Rev and Linnie back to Irving then swinging back to City Hall has a stench about it. As Ed has pointed out there are at least four different versions of the arrest given by Frazier and the cops.....something not quite right happened that Friday night me thinks.

Stan Dane wrote:Greg Parker

There was also a dumb waiter that went down to the basement. Not sure how far up it went, though...possibly just to the first floor... but may have played some part getting rifle in or out unseen?

Mick Purdy

That's amazing to know Greg.

It would weave its way nicely into getting the actual weapon out of the building if that's where the shots came from in the first place. It certainly would place Frazier's movements down to the basement immediately following the shots into a very different light.

Stan Dane wrote:

Stan Dane wrote:Greg Parker

There was also a dumb waiter that went down to the basement. Not sure how far up it went, though...possibly just to the first floor... but may have played some part getting rifle in or out unseen?

Mick Purdy

That's amazing to know Greg.

It would weave its way nicely into getting the actual weapon out of the building if that's where the shots came from in the first place. It certainly would place Frazier's movements down to the basement immediately following the shots into a very different light.

Greg Parker

Mick, failing memory.

It was a conveyor belt that ran between basement and West's packing table on the first floor. There was ALSO a dumb waiter - but this didn't go down to the basement. It ran between the 1st and 4th floors.

Mick Purdy

Thanks Greg, just to clarify then, where did the lift well/shaft stop. 1st or Basement.

Is there a known pic of the dumb waiter any where....its size??

Faroe Islander

Mr. GIVENS: Yes. They were on their way home, and they told me that they let them all go home for the evening, and I said, "I'd better go back and get my hat and coat."
So I started over there to pick up my hat and coat, and Officer Dawson saw me and he called me and asked me was my name Charles Givens, and I said," yes."
And he said, "We want you to go downtown and make a statement."
And he puts me in the car and takes me down to the city hall and I made a statement to Will Fritz down there.

This is from some interview with Belin and Mr. Givens, he went back for his hat and coat, hmmm so he did probably see LHO in the morning when he was there in the lunchroom reading the paper....

Stan Dane wrote:Faroe Islander

Mr. GIVENS: Yes. They were on their way home, and they told me that they let them all go home for the evening, and I said, "I'd better go back and get my hat and coat."
So I started over there to pick up my hat and coat, and Officer Dawson saw me and he called me and asked me was my name Charles Givens, and I said," yes."
And he said, "We want you to go downtown and make a statement."
And he puts me in the car and takes me down to the city hall and I made a statement to Will Fritz down there.

This is from some interview with Belin and Mr. Givens, he went back for his hat and coat, hmmm so he did probably see LHO in the morning when he was there in the lunchroom reading the paper....

Mick Purdy

I do believe he did, Shanklin is unambiguous IMO.

He says:

"Charles Douglas Givens, Employee, TSBD, worked on sixth floor until about eleven thirty A.M. Left at this time going down on elevator. Saw Oswald on fifth floor as left going down. Oswald told him to close the gates when he got to first floor so Oswald could signal for elevator later. Givens stayed on first floor until twelve o'clock and then walked out of the building to watch the parade pass. Oswald was reading paper in the first floor domino room seven-fifty A.M. November twenty two last when Givens came to work."

Mick Purdy

This is pure speculation, but I now believe Wesley was late for work that Friday morning and Lee was early and that they arrived separately at the TSBD.
IMO there is still much uncertainty as to why this happened but there is persuasive argument for them to have arrived at different times for the start of work that day.
 
I believe Wesley drove himself to work alone and he arrived at the Houston Nth car park at some time just after eight. (Shield’s and Givens)

I believe Oswald arrived at work sometime after 7 but before 7:50 am. (Givens Shanklin Dougherty)
 
Lee had to get to work that day somehow and it is my belief this was stage managed. My # 1 suspect for this is Ruth Paine. It’s more than feasible she drove Lee to work. (Fritz notes Oswald)
 
Wesley IMO was up to no good and used lateness as an excuse for Lee being given a lift into work by someone else that morning.

The only other option for mine for the lift for Lee is “Willie Randle” .
 
As Ed has stated, you can take your pick here but there’s only limited reasons why Wesley was so deceitful, either covering up something or a willing participant in the frame.

There doesn’t seem to be a lot of wriggle room for Wes on this.

Mick Purdy

So how do we petition Dallas authorities to investigate their own, and others regarding this Texas cold case.

They have in their midst 2 people of interest surely. I'd certainly be checking on Ruth and Wes, as far as I can tell they're still living there.

Vinny

Ruth Paine currently lives in California.

Ruth Paine
684 Benicia Drive
Santa Rosa, CA, 95409

Frazier still lives in Texas.

Stan Dane wrote:Vinny

Ruth Paine currently lives in California.

Ruth Paine
684 Benicia Drive
Santa Rosa, CA, 95409

Frazier still lives in Texas.

Mick Purdy

Thanks for correcting that mate, not quite the writer really...should've just gone with they have two people who are still alive and connected to the crime.

Vinny

Frazier claims in interviews that Oswald was his friend.He also believes that Oswald is innocent.So why does he not mention that Oswald aka PM was standing near him on the entrance about the time of the shooting? That would prove Oswald was not the shooter since he could not have been obviously both on the steps as well as the sixth floor. What a great alibi for his "friend" that would be.