Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

First topic message reminder :

This is full rebuild of the hugely popular thread created by Mick Purdy at the Webs forum in February 2015. – Stan

Mick Purdy

I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.

I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.

I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.

I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.

I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.

Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.

The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.

Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.

Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.
  
From the HSCA interview of Shields
 

SHIELDS: I think Charles Givens hollered out there and asked Frazier where was his rider and he told him: "I dropped him off at the building." Yeah, that was it...Well, I was down on the floor when they hollered out and said and the answer he gave them, I don't know, I think he said: "I dropped him off at the building." Now, whoever it was hollering asked him, I don't know.
DAY: This is the morning of the assassination?
SHIELDS: Mm-hmm.
DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."
SHIELDS: Yes.
DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?
SHIELDS: No I didn’t.

 
To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.

Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.

In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.

This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.

The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………
 
An alternative scenario

Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)

What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!

Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.

Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. What follows is some of my conjecture.

Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.

Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."

Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?

I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement.

Barto

Having a quiet chat no doubt.....

Ed Ledoux

Are there phone records which would show incoming calls to either the Randle home, the Paine's house or even Bell Aerospace at around 1.00 pm from the Oakcliff area.....? T.T.

If there were the cops or FBI had them shit canned never to see the light of day again. Only Toll calls would be recorded for accounting purposes and thus couldn't be made to go away.

Mr. JENNER - By the way, is the call from Dallas, Tex., to Irving a toll call?
Mrs. PAINE - No.

Perhaps that is why the Irving connection was important. Calls could be made to Irving from Dallas etc like a phone tree where no one has to make a long distance call and have it listened to by the operator or a slip going through the phone company system and records being made, bills produced etc etc. Smart folks knew Ma Bell was a bitch and had big ears and a big mouth which led back to Hoover's boys in spades. I could share some secrets but not publicly.

Of note Ruth said she was given two numbers by Lee, WH2-1985 and WH3-8993

So Ruth calls WH3-8993 and asked for him, but no one was there by that name, Oswald.  Go figure!

Does Ruth try the other number.....? NOPE! Why not if Lee is not at the first one. Why not try the other. Lee might have moved back to the first rooming house. This shows her deceit.

We all know Ruth Paine is a bold faced liar, IMO she is worse than a liar. How do we know she is lying? Her lips are moving.  

Its a wonder why Wes and Ruth didn't hang out, they had so much in common.

Mick Purdy

You do make me laugh Ed Ledoux.....

Mick Purdy
 
Onward to the Texas theatre I say!...I'm hitching a ride with Wes.
 
I hear he's heading there straight after we finish up at work.

Anyone wanting a ride, meet down at the Houston Nth warehouse at 12.45 pm sharp.....there's a good flick on at the theatre....

Ed Ledoux

LIEBELER: Did you talk to your wife on the telephone at any time during Saturday, November 23?
PAINE: I was in the police station again, and I think I called her from there.
LIEBELER: Did you make any remark to the effect that you knew who was responsible?
PAINE: And I don't know who the assassin is or was; no. So I did not. (2H428)

This is the infamous "I know who did" call that was heard by an informant. Toll call from Bell Helicopter to Irving. Here Liebeler knows the call is from the 22nd. So Liebeler is misdirecting a witness. Lie-beler knows better, has the FBI report, and the records. He is a piece of shit who Lifton admires...both can suck eggs at Easter. Ruth and Michael both lied on the stand. A grand jury should hear this evidence and re-open this case based on the Paine's alone.

The telephone company knows all the secrets. Ma Bell is a bitch. Cops used to routinely listen in to calls of those they wanted to by entering the switching sub stations and listen to all the calls.

"A suspect's telephone line is identified at the phone company's switching station and a line, or "tap," is run off the line to a listening device

The U.S. Supreme Court, in the 1928 case of Olmstead v. united states, 277 U.S. 438, 48 S. Ct. 564, 72 L. Ed. 944, held that the tapping of a telephone line did not violate the Fourth Amendment's prohibition against unlawful searches and seizures, so long as the police had not trespassed on the property of the person whose line was tapped. Justice Louis D. Brandeis argued in a dissenting opinion that the Court had employed an outdated mechanical and spatial approach to the Fourth Amendment and failed to consider the interests in privacy that the amendment was designed to protect.
For almost 40 years the Supreme Court maintained that wiretapping was permissible in the absence of a Trespass. When police did trespass in federal investigations, the evidence was excluded in federal court. The Supreme Court reversed course in 1967, with its decision in Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347, 88 S. Ct. 507, 19 L. Ed. 2d 576. The Court abandoned the Olmstead approach of territorial trespass and adopted one based on the reasonable expectation of privacy of the victim of the wiretapping. Where an individual has an expectation of privacy, the government is required to obtain a warrant for wiretapping."

So fuck the police and their gestapo tactics and they are all liars too. Put one on the stand and you can expect they will CYA with a L-I-E. I have more that I can not disclose publicly about police and abuses of your rights they routinely do and did.

Mick Purdy
 
This is the infamous "I know who did" call that was heard by an informant. Toll call from Bell Helicopter to Irving. Here Liebeler knows the call is from the 22nd. So Liebeler is misdirecting a witness. Lie-beler knows better, has the FBI report, and the records. He is a piece of shit who Lifton admires...both can suck eggs at Easter. Ruth and Michael both lied on the stand. A grand jury should hear this evidence and re-open this case based on the Paine's alone.
 
Thanks Ed for reminding everyone of this shite. It's utterly fantastic evidence of the frauds they were. How dare they!
 
I hear you with regards to the phone calls and how the FBI would've certainly disappeared them, I just have an amazingly strong gut feel that Wes phoned through to someone around 1-ish or a little later give or take that the man was in da house.

Ed Ledoux

Cops would go do this at late at night, and listen to all the calls coming and going from that areas switching station.

This and many other abuses are why no one trusts a guy wearing a gun saying he is there to help you. Police are disrespectful of your rights and property. Never talk to one without counsel, ever! Better to spend a night in jail than a lifetime in prison. Oh but they just wanna help...help put you in prison. 



So Lee Oswald was telling the truth to liars and thieves whom have been proven as such. Lee was the good guy! The police were corrupt! Innocence project here we come.

Lee Oswald is the next to be exonerated and DPD can start by apologizing to his children and widow. Tippits kids and widow got paid off. Murder has no expiration date and a lawsuit against DPD could still be brought. They were culpable in that murder and it can be proven in a court of law. Wes and the whole bunch at DPD whom are alive need their sorry asses put before a grand jury. Hill, Leavell etc need to pay the piper. Prison is too good for them. Gulag sounds better.
I hear the Texas Dept justice may need to reinstate the firing squads as the lethal injection is "under fire"....hmm sweet irony that would be having them shot for their getting Oswald shot. Hell is making room for lots of DPD arseholes and the devil don't use lube.
 
Go ahead Wes, stay in Texas, its our best chance to see you bagged and tagged.

Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy
 
Onward to the Texas theatre I say!...I'm hitching a ride with Wes.
 
I hear he's heading there straight after we finish up at work.

Anyone wanting a ride, meet down at the Houston Nth warehouse at 12.45 pm sharp.....there's a good flick on at the theatre....

Ed Ledoux

Mick now my ribs hurt! 

Vinny

It would be great if one could gather all the living witnesses in the case for cross examining. Leavelle, Wes, the Paines, Johnny Brewer etc.

Stan Dane wrote:Vinny

It would be great if one could gather all the living witnesses in the case for cross examining. Leavelle, Wes, the Paines, Johnny Brewer etc.

Mick Purdy

Vinny, it's on my Christmas list for this year and I've been a very very good boy.

Mick Purdy

Wes and the drive to the Texas theatre.

Is it possible that Buell Wesley Frazier drove Lee Harvey Oswald to the Texas Theatre after the assassination of JFK and once he had let his unwitting passenger out at the theatre went onto place a call to any number of person/s unknown as to Oswald’s whereabouts. In my opinion it’s certainly possible and warrants a closer look.

Let’s look at Brewer and Postals testimony with regards to the alleged call made to the police by Julia Postal.

Postal WC testimony.
Mrs. POSTAL. No, sir; I told Johnny this, don't tell him, because he is an excitable person, and just have him, you know, go with you and examine the exits and check real good, so, he came back and said he hadn't seen anything although, he had heard a seat pop up like somebody getting out, but there was nobody around that area, so, I told Johnny about the fact that the President had been assassinated. "I don't know if this is the man they want," I said, "in there, but he is running from them for some reason," and I said "I am going to call the police, and you and Butch go get on each of the exit doors and stay there."
So, well, I called the police, and he wanted to know why I thought it was their man, and I said, "Well, I didn't know," and he said, "Well, it fits the description," and I have not---I said I hadn't heard the description. All I know is, "This man is running from them for some reason." And he wanted to know why, and told him because every time the sirens go by he would duck and he wanted to know----well, if he fits the description is what he says. I said, "Let me tell you what he looks like and you take it from there." And explained that he had on this brown sports shirt and I couldn't tell you what design it was, and medium height, ruddy looking to me, and he said, "Thank you," and I called the operator and asked him to look through the little hole and see if he could see anything and told him I had called the police, and what was happening, and he wanted to know if I wanted him to cut the picture off, and I says, "No, let's wait until they get here." So, seemed like I hung up the intercom phone when here all of a sudden, police cars, policemen, plainclothesmen, I never saw so many people in my life. And they raced in, and the next thing I knew, they were carrying----well, that is when I first heard Officer Tippit had been shot because some officer came in the box office and used the phone, said, "I think we have got our man on both accounts." "What two accounts?" And said, "Well, Officer Tippit's," shocked me, because Officer Tippit used to work part time for us years ago. I didn't know him personally.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. BALL. Did you ever go down to the police station?
Mrs. POSTAL. Police station?
Mr. BALL. Yes; later the city hall or police office?
Mrs. POSTAL. Yes; I went down to the homicidal bureau.
Mr. BALL. When?
Mrs. POSTAL. Well, let's see, that was a Friday. I believe it was the Thursday following.
Mr. BALL. You didn't go down there that day?
Mrs. POSTAL. No, stir.
Mr. BALL. Did you go down there the next day?
Mrs. POSTAL. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. According to your affidavit, it shows that you signed it on the 4th of December. Would that be about right?
Mrs. POSTAL. Was that on Thursday?
Mr. BALL. Yes; I think.
Mrs. POSTAL. I can't remember. I think it was a Thursday.
Mr. BALL. That was after Oswald was dead?
Mrs. POSTAL. Yes; well, yes; because he was killed on the 24th, yes; because I know I didn't go down until the following week.
Mr. BALL. Now, was it after Oswald, the man brought out on----out of the theatre was taken away in the car that the officer called and said, "I'm sure we have got our man---- "?
Mrs. POSTAL. No, sir; that officer came out of the theatre and grabbed at the phone and made the call about simultaneously as they were bringing Oswald out.
Mr. BALL. And that was when you heard that Officer Tippit had been shot?
Even Ball seems to be taken aback as to why Postal hadn’t gone to the police station earlier.
So why did the DPD wait 13 days to take Postal's affidavit?

Postal affidavit





Brewer WC testimony:

Mr. BREWER - He walked into the Texas Theatre and I walked up to the theatre, to the box office and asked Mrs. Postal if she sold a ticket to a man who was wearing a brown shirt, and she said no, she hadn't. She was listening to the radio herself. And I said that a man walked in there, and I was going to go inside and ask the usher if he had seen him.
Mr. BELIN - Then did you know when you saw him walk in and when you walked up to Julia Postal that he had not bought a ticket?
Mr. BREWER - I knew that he hadn't.
Mr. BELIN - Why did you ask Julia Postal whether he had or hadn't?
Mr. BREWER - I don't know.
Mr. BELIN - You just asked her?
Mr. BREWER - Just asked her whether he had bought or she had seen him go in.
Mr. BELIN - She---did she say whether she had seen him, or don't you remember?
Mr. BREWER - She said she couldn't remember a man of that description going in.
Mr. BELIN - When we first met, what is the fact as to whether or not I just asked you to tell your story, or whether or not I tried to tell you what I thought the story was?
Mr. BREWER - You asked me to tell the story first.

Belin really was such an arse!

Brewers Affidavit
 
AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Johnny Calvin Brewer w/m/22 of 512 N. Lancaster, Apt. 102, WH1 4793. Bus: 213 W. Jefferson, Hardy Shoe Store who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

Friday November 22, 1963 I was at work at Hardy's Shoe Store, 213 West Jefferson. I had heard on the radio that the President had been shot, also that a policeman had been shot in Oak Cliff. About 1:30 pm I saw a man standing in the lobby of the shoe store. This man was wearing a brown sport shirt. He also acted as if he was scared. About this time a police car came up the street going west on Jefferson. When the police car reached Zangs it made a turn and went back east on Jefferson. After the police car passed, the man in the lobby walked up on Jefferson toward the Texas Theatre. I followed the man up the street and he went into the theatre. I asked the girl if she had sold the man a ticket and she replied that she did not think so, that she had been listening to the radio and did not remember. I went into the show and asked Butch, the concession man, if he had seen the man come in. Butch said that he had been busy and did not notice. Butch and I then checked the exits to see if any of them had been opened. The exits were all closed and did not appear to have been opened. I then went back to the box office and told Julie [sic] to call the police. When the police arrived the show was stopped and the lights were turned on. A man in the middle section about five or six rows of seats from the back stood up when the lights were turned on. An officer approached him and he hit the officer and knocked him back. Several other officers then joined the fight and the man was taken out of the theatre. This was the same man I had seen in front of the shoe store where I work. The reason I noticed the man in front of the store was because he acted so nervous, and I thought at the time he might be the man that had shot the policeman.
/s/ Johnny C. Brewer
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 6 DAY OF December A.D. 1963
/s/ Mary Rattan
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

Why was Brewers affidavit taken 15 days after the event?

James Douglass:
Jack Davis

Butch Burroughs was not alone in noticing Oswald in the Texas Theatre by then. The man who would soon be identified as the president’s assassin drew the attention of several moviegoers because of his odd behaviour.
 
 
Edging into a row of seats in the right rear section of the ground floor, Oswald had squeezed in front of eighteen-year-old Jack Davis. He then sat down in the seat right next to him. Because there were fewer than twenty people in the entire nine-hundred-seat theatre, Davis wondered why the man chose such close proximity to him. Whatever the reason, the man didn’t stay there long. Oswald (as Davis would later identify him) got up quickly, moved across the aisle, and sat down next to someone else in the almost deserted theatre. In a few moments, he stood up again and walked out to the lobby.[433]
 
Davis thought it obvious Oswald was looking for someone.[434] Yet it must have been someone he didn’t know personally. He sat next to each new person just long enough to receive a prearranged signal, in the absence of which he moved on to another possible contact.
 
Back out in the lobby at 1:15 P.M., Oswald then bought popcorn from Butch Burroughs at the concession stand.[435] Burroughs told author Jim Marrs and myself that he saw Oswald go back in the ground floor of the theatre and sit next to a pregnant woman[436]—in another apparently fruitless effort to find his contact. Several minutes later, “the pregnant woman got up and went to the ladies washroom,” Burroughs said. He “heard the restroom door close just shortly before Dallas police came rushing into the theatre.”[437] Jack Davis said it may have been “twenty minutes or so” after Oswald returned from the lobby (when Burroughs saw Oswald sit by the pregnant woman) that the house lights came on and the police rushed in.[438]
 
Source: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/Unspeakable/TwoLHOs.html
Jim Douglass, JFK and The Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters
Orbis Books, (New York: Simon & Schuster 2010),
pp. 286-303, 350-355, 464-470, 481-483.
Book excerpts reproduced with the permission of Orbis Books.

3. What time did Oswald enter the theatre?
 
If Johnny Brewer’s testimony is to be believed, Oswald entered the theatre at approximately 1:30 pm. However, as I discussed above, I don’t believe Brewer actually saw Oswald. The main reason I don’t believe Brewer (and Julia Postal for that matter) is the fact that it took the DPD until the 6th of December to obtain an affidavit from him!
Lone gunman zealots have tried to explain this away by claiming, get this, the DPD were too busy. Well busy with what for god’s sake? Oswald was the man they not only charged for killing one of their fellow officers, but they charged him for murdering the President. The only logical explanation, in my opinion, is that the DPD needed time to set Brewer’s and Postal’s stories straight.
Jim Douglass, author of the seminal book, JFK and the unspeakable, tracked down Warren “Butch” Burroughs – who was working behind the concession stand on inside the Theatre, on the day of the assassination. According to Douglass, Burroughs claimed he saw Oswald enter the theatre between 1:00 pm and 1:07 pm. He also claimed he sold Oswald pop-corn at 1:15 pm – the “official” time of Officer Tippit’s murder!
Given the interview took place decades following the assassination, I honestly wouldn’t give it a substantial amount of weight. It’s also important to note that Theatre Patron, Jack Davis, observed Oswald enter the theatre prior to 1:20 pm. Not surprisingly, Davis was not called to testify before the Warren commission.

Source:
http://jfkthelonegunmanmyth.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/oswalds-escape-from-tsbd.html
Hasan Yusuf

Police dispatch Texas Theatre:

Time    #        Dispatcher 10-4. We have information that a suspect just went in the Texas Theater on West Jefferson.
          79       10-4.
                    Dispatcher Supposed to be hiding in the balcony.
          79       10-4.
          85       (Ptm. R.W. Walker) 85 out that way.
                    Dispatcher 10-4.
          65       (Ptm. W.A. Everett) 65 clear.
1:46              Dispatcher 65 clear. 1:46.
         111      (Ptm. J.G. Pollard) 111 en route.
                    Dispatcher 10-4. 111.
          76       (Ptm. H.H. Horn) 76, Code 5.
                    Dispatcher 10-4.
           9       (Insp. J.H. Sawyer) 9.
                    Dispatcher 9.
           9       (Insp. J.H. Sawyer) 9. We have a man we would like to have you pass this up on to the CID to see if we can                               pick this man up. Charles Douglas Givens, G-I-V-E-N-S. He's a colored male, thirty-seven, six foot three, a                                 hundred sixty-five pounds. He has an ID number in the Sheriff's Department, 37954. He's a porter that                                       worked on this floor up here. He has a police record and he left.
         492      (CID) 492, out Texas Theater.
                    Dispatcher 10-4, 9.
        550/2    (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2.
                    Dispatcher 550/2.
        550/2    Do you have any additional information on this Oak Cliff suspect?
         492      (CID) 492, out Texas Theater.
                    Dispatcher 10-4.
                    Dispatcher They think he is at Texas Theater, 550/2.
         508      (Crime Lab/ W.E. Barnes) 508.
                    . . . meet (?)
                    Dispatcher 85 at Texas Theater, 550/2.

According to the police dispatch records they receive a call at about 1.45-1.46 pm.
 
Now if Burroughs and Davis’s recollections are accurate can we really believe Brewer and Postal’s testimony. If Oswald did in fact enter at around 1.05 pm then how could it be possible that a call to police was placed at around 1.40-1.44 pm.
IMO that is because Oswald was seated inside eating popcorn watching a flick waiting for his mate Wesley to come in. The call was bogus, a set-up, Oswald was never doing anything like the things claimed by Postal and Brewer.
 
IMO Postal was possibly coerced into lying about calling the police, as there is some evidence which suggests that Oswald was there at the theatre prior to 1.30 pm. In fact if we are to believe Burroughs and Jack Davis then it’s possible Oswald was at the theatre as early as 1.00 pm.
 
I’m with Hasan here I don’t believe Brewer was telling the truth. And I certainly don’t believe anything Postal has said either. The fact that they gave their affidavits more than 13 days after the fact is damning IMO.
 
It’s entirely possible and indeed plausible that Frazier drove Lee to the theatre…..it’s entirely possible too, that Oswald was looking through a shop window at shoes before he entered that cinema. It’s completely possible, that Oswald entered the theatre whilst Wesley was out front parking the car. There is some evidence (via Burroughs) that Oswald might have brought popcorn at 1.15 pm and that it is entirely possible that upon his return to the stalls he looked for his buddy Wes, but was unable to locate him.
 
Is it not possible that Wes whilst out front made a phone call, a call to whomever needed to know that Oswald was inside the theatre. 

IMO it’s worth consideration.

Stan Dane wrote:Ed Ledoux

Cops would go do this at late at night, and listen to all the calls coming and going from that areas switching station.

This and many other abuses are why no one trusts a guy wearing a gun saying he is there to help you. Police are disrespectful of your rights and property. Never talk to one without counsel, ever! Better to spend a night in jail than a lifetime in prison. Oh but they just wanna help...help put you in prison. 



So Lee Oswald was telling the truth to liars and thieves whom have been proven as such. Lee was the good guy! The police were corrupt! Innocence project here we come.

Lee Oswald is the next to be exonerated and DPD can start by apologizing to his children and widow. Tippits kids and widow got paid off. Murder has no expiration date and a lawsuit against DPD could still be brought. They were culpable in that murder and it can be proven in a court of law. Wes and the whole bunch at DPD whom are alive need their sorry asses put before a grand jury. Hill, Leavell etc need to pay the piper. Prison is too good for them. Gulag sounds better.
I hear the Texas Dept justice may need to reinstate the firing squads as the lethal injection is "under fire"....hmm sweet irony that would be having them shot for their getting Oswald shot. Hell is making room for lots of DPD arseholes and the devil don't use lube.
 
Go ahead Wes, stay in Texas, its our best chance to see you bagged and tagged.

Mick Purdy

Thanks Ed.

It has more than 50 years since the JFK Assassination, and many of those connected in some way or the other are dead.However there are still quite a few alive. I thought of compiling a list of those still alive.

Ruth and Michael Paine
Marina Oswald
Robert Oswald
Jim Leavelle
Clint Hill
Sylvia Odio
Julia Ann Mercer
Johnny Brewer
The Newmans
Hugh Ayensworth
Bob Huffacker
Winston Lawson
Amos Euins
Sylvia Duran
Carlos Bringuier
Mary Moorman
Bobby Baker
Marita Lorenz
Kent Biffle
Virginia Davis
Marie Tippit
Ronald Nelson
Wesley Buell Frazier

Wouldn't it be sweet.

Barto

From 1968 by Dick Barnabei: [url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/B Disk/Bernabei Dick 1968/Item 15.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bernabei%20Dick%201968/Item%2015.pdf[/url]

"Sprague caused me to suspect that Buell Wesley Frazier may been involved in framing Oswald."

"I tended to trust Frazier because of his damaging testimony regarding the length of the bag, along with the testimony of Linnie Mae Randle. But hell, Randle is the one who (with Ruth Paine) got Oswald the job at the Depository-- and it is only she and Frazier who may indicate that Oswald carried a large bag to the TSBD. Remember that Dougherty saw Oswald enter the Depository, but saw no bag."

Stan Dane wrote:Barto

From 1968 by Dick Barnabei: [url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/B Disk/Bernabei Dick 1968/Item 15.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bernabei%20Dick%201968/Item%2015.pdf[/url]

"Sprague caused me to suspect that Buell Wesley Frazier may been involved in framing Oswald."

"I tended to trust Frazier because of his damaging testimony regarding the length of the bag, along with the testimony of Linnie Mae Randle. But hell, Randle is the one who (with Ruth Paine) got Oswald the job at the Depository-- and it is only she and Frazier who may indicate that Oswald carried a large bag to the TSBD. Remember that Dougherty saw Oswald enter the Depository, but saw no bag."

Mick Purdy

Thanks Barto,

very interesting.......





Now this could just be an eager news reporter getting the facts wrong...or not.

Barto

Charles Givens and the elevators.....

[url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/D Disk/D Letter/Item 69.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/D%20Letter/Item%2069.pdf[/url]

I estimate this doc to be written in the mid to late 90's since the writer mentions Maegher's account from 30 years ago....

Mick Purdy

Ed said,

I asked and Mick showed they drove all three back to DPD and gave Buell the test and had him fill out another affidavit, one at 9 pm and one at near midnight. Then drove all three back to "The Randles" place. Of course I showed way earlier in the thread that Gus Rose, et al said they drove back to drop Wes of at Irving Professional center where Wes's car was, and Wes was upset that they had searched his car without permissions.
Then Stovall, if I recall, had this as something they did before bringing Wes down from the hospital room to talke him in.
We have four different stories, including McCabes tale of him arresting BWF and taking him to IPD and then Rose/Stovall collecting him from there. Wes claims it was Rose/Stovall whom arrested him at the hospital...
Something doesn't add up with the arrest and transport details and I don't need a calculator to show this.

There are four different stories with regards to Wes being arrested. Ed has shown us this.

Something doesn't add up here, Why are there different official claims of where and when Wesley was arrested. If we take into consideration Wes's recollections on the interview with Mack we possibly have five different versions of the arrest. Why?

Where was Wesley for near on 2-3 hours after the assassination.......And why are there discrepancies with regards to this. Surely not just simple misremembering.....

Is this not enough to at least have a look at the case being re investigated by Dallas authorities, at least a look, Wes in my view and along with his accusers that day have a lot to answer for. The theatre may explain some of Frazier's whereabouts but after that where was he and what was he up to.

Stan Dane wrote:Barto

From 1968 by Dick Barnabei: [url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/B Disk/Bernabei Dick 1968/Item 15.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bernabei%20Dick%201968/Item%2015.pdf[/url]

"Sprague caused me to suspect that Buell Wesley Frazier may been involved in framing Oswald."

"I tended to trust Frazier because of his damaging testimony regarding the length of the bag, along with the testimony of Linnie Mae Randle. But hell, Randle is the one who (with Ruth Paine) got Oswald the job at the Depository-- and it is only she and Frazier who may indicate that Oswald carried a large bag to the TSBD. Remember that Dougherty saw Oswald enter the Depository, but saw no bag."

Mick Purdy

[url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/O Disk/Oswald Lee Harvey Rifle/Item 16.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/O%20Disk/Oswald%20Lee%20Harvey%20Rifle/Item%2016.pdf[/url]

same Dr. Richard Bernarbei 1968.

Stan Dane wrote:Barto

Charles Givens and the elevators.....

[url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/D Disk/D Letter/Item 69.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/D%20Letter/Item%2069.pdf[/url]

I estimate this doc to be written in the mid to late 90's since the writer mentions Maegher's account from 30 years ago....

Colin Crow

Bart, I believe that Givens operated the east elevator in the race and was alone. Williams, Arce and Lovelady were on the west elevator. The notion of a "race" is misleading as the elevators were very slow. Although they were never timed by a stopwatch as requested by Ball and Belin a couple of recreations of Oswald's supposed movements allow some rough estimation at about 10 seconds per floor. The east elevator was marginally quicker as the occupant only had to lift one gate to exit, the west required two.

The Givens cigarette trip was a concoction, likely influenced by the Thayer Waldo story in early February and that Piper claimed Oswald was on the first floor at noon. The LN case needed to get Oswald back to the 6th floor and Givens merely complied with their wishes.

Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy

Ed said,

I asked and Mick showed they drove all three back to DPD and gave Buell the test and had him fill out another affidavit, one at 9 pm and one at near midnight. Then drove all three back to "The Randles" place. Of course I showed way earlier in the thread that Gus Rose, et al said they drove back to drop Wes of at Irving Professional center where Wes's car was, and Wes was upset that they had searched his car without permissions.
Then Stovall, if I recall, had this as something they did before bringing Wes down from the hospital room to talke him in.
We have four different stories, including McCabes tale of him arresting BWF and taking him to IPD and then Rose/Stovall collecting him from there. Wes claims it was Rose/Stovall whom arrested him at the hospital...
Something doesn't add up with the arrest and transport details and I don't need a calculator to show this.

There are four different stories with regards to Wes being arrested. Ed has shown us this.

Something doesn't add up here, Why are there different official claims of where and when Wesley was arrested. If we take into consideration Wes's recollections on the interview with Mack we possibly have five different versions of the arrest. Why?

Where was Wesley for near on 2-3 hours after the assassination.......And why are there discrepancies with regards to this. Surely not just simple misremembering.....

Is this not enough to at least have a look at the case being re investigated by Dallas authorities, at least a look, Wes in my view and along with his accusers that day have a lot to answer for. The theatre may explain some of Frazier's whereabouts but after that where was he and what was he up to.

Mick Purdy

Working on this at present I think this could be  a very worthwhile exercise. I think Ed is bang on about this after some prelim work. If this can be sured up with documents then I think Wesley and the cops too are in bigger trouble than we imagined over where BWF was that arvo IMO.

If anyone can assist with finding docs to prove the cops lied about what time they arrested Wes and more importantly "where" that'd be fantastic......

Cheers all.

Mick Purdy
 
Thanks to Stan Dane:
 

 
Now, tell us again Wesley how you didn't see Lee on the steps.........one more time for old time's sake.

Maybe get Mack or Aynesworth to ask you, we will use this as our backdrop for the interview, of course if that's OK with your minders.

Mick Purdy
 
 



 
 
Wesley, you starting to feel anxious, a little nervy........you feelin' tense?

Mick Purdy
 
 
 
I'd be nervous BWF.....things are starting to sharpen up!

Mick Purdy



Can we get someone to show this pic, this blow up to Wesley, and ask him once more to point to himself in the pic (I believe he has done this sometime recently) and then tell us who the person he recalls is standing to his nearest right hand side. And remind him before answering, that this is the day the President of the United States was shot and killed in front him when he was standing on those steps and that he should be able to remember exactly where he was and who he was with......I know most other people would.

Vinny

From Sean Murphy's post at the EF.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&page=53

Major development.
 
Gary Mack has just emailed John Mytton, a LN poster at Duncan's forum:

While the image is an interesting find, the Prayer Man question has probably been answered. I recently sent the Couch and Darnell frames to Buell Frazier and asked what he thought. First, he wouldn’t confirm himself being on the top step because the image isn’t clear enough. He then re-confirmed that Lovelady and Shelley were out on the steps with him, just as he has always said, but he couldn’t confirm Shelley, either, due to the image quality.

Next I asked about Shelley’s appearance and learned he was a little taller than Lovelady (who was 5’8”), had red hair and a slender build. When I asked if Shelley usually wore a coat and tie to work Buell said no, he “dressed daily in slacks and sport shirts.” And he repeated that he, Lovelady and Shelley stayed on the steps for “a short time” after the last shot, but he didn’t estimate how long.

So unless Buell Frazier is still part of the cover-up plot, TSBD “Miscellaneous Department” manager William Shelley, by elimination, must be Prayer Man. According to Shelley’s testimony, “I didn’t do anything for a minute” following the last shot, so the man was standing on the steps before, during and after the time Darnell and Couch filmed those brief scenes.

Gary Mack

Mick Purdy

Thanks Vinny for reiterating and re-confirming what many here have long known, That PM is NOT any of the main TSBD principals outside of LHO.

The research tells us that. And IMO its very hard to argue against. The photo supports the research IMHO. It's hard not to be persuaded that the person who is to BWF right hand side  a top of the stairs is none other than Lee Harvey Oswald.