A House of Cards?

First topic message reminder :

In a couple of days I will be posting a very long essay that I have been putting together for many months with the assistance of Greg Parker and Hasan Yusuf.

One of Robert Charles-Dunne's recent posts has already made me very aware of the standard of proof some people will require before dispensing with a wide variety of myths that have long been accepted as established truth.  I will be very open to constructive criticism, questions and observations but more than anything else I need your help to keep digging further and further into the old narrative to see if we can establish a new and more accurate one.

Before I post my work I figured I'd get the ball rolling starting with a quote from Robert's post on the Prayer Man thread followed by some questions.

Robert Charles-Dunne said "I am open to persuasion regarding whether or not Oswald lived at the Beckley boarding house, but haven’t yet encountered anything that proves conclusively he lived elsewhere, or even suggests a reason for having fabricated his tenancy there."

For many of you reading this you probably didn't know what Robert was referring to. Robert has known for some length of time that I had started trying to deconstruct Oswald's tenancy at 1026 North Beckley.  The more information I have collected the more I have become convinced that he never lived there.  

So, as a series of starter questions, using points made in RCD's post:

i). What evidence do we possess that suggests Oswald lived at Mrs. Gladys Johnson's rooming house at 1026 North Beckley?

ii). What evidence do we possess that suggests an imposter lived at 1026 North Beckley?

ii). Do we have to prove Oswald lived elsewhere to prove he didn't live at 1026 North Beckley?

iii). What possible reasons could there have been "for having fabricated his tenancy" at 1026 North Beckley?

Seeing as how Sean Murphy has recently tried to dismantle one large Lee Oswald myth, let's keep the motivation going and see what happens with this one.

Thanks

Lee

Goodbye wrote:I don't have the energy right now to restart the thread concerning Beckley but on the subject of Crafard, I would not be surprised if this man was working for intelligence.  He most probably was the actual person mistaken for Oswald on occasions over in Oak Cliff and other Dallas environs as per many FBI reports.  Ruby's meetings with Bertha Cheek were very likely NOT about buying some mysterious club.  The North Beckley property, some of its occupants, and its owners are pretty dodgy.  

I'd just ask for other members here to try and build on what I have presented or offer a different set of scenarios explaining some of the strange aspects of Oswald's alleged tenancy at this strange house...

Thanks, Lee,

That was pretty much as I had already deduced but it is nice to hear it from a more experienced hand. All the comings and goings over where officers were being sent/not sent was new to me.

Terry

We also have the Rose Cheramie story corroborating the Crafard-Ruby story, will check it again later

Faroe Islander wrote:We also have the Rose Cheramie story corroborating the Crafard-Ruby story, will check it again later

Yes, if could elaborate, I'd appreciate it.

"The men were provided with this cover as well as unbackstopped homes addresses for use when entering or leaving Cuba as tourists since the filling out of the landing card requires this information. Subsequent to their detention the home addresses have been partially backstopped so that inquiries will indicate that someone with this alias name had lived in the apartment house in question. Insofar as the cover companies are concerned, efforts are being made to provide a backstop to withstand inquiries from the press should the Cubans reveal this information. In view of the thinness of cover, it is uncertain whether this will succeed."
http://ajweberman.com/noduleX12-DAVID%20LEMAR%20CHRIST.pdf

If I read this correctly, false addresses were chosen for the 3 prior to going to Cuba - but nothing was done until AFTER they were arrested, to put in place some evidence to "backstop" the deceit.

Isn't this more or less what we see with at 2 or 3 of Oswald's addresses? They have the appearance of being "backstopped" AFTER Oswald's arrest.

"Backstopping" as used by intelligence agencies is defined as...
the extent and degree of protection given when using an alias, false documentation, phony address, or are employed in a "front". When there is little or no "backstopping", an alias is referred to as a "throwaway" - this type to be used only once or twice for a single purpose then discarded. Backstopping might include what is referred to in the trade as "pocket litter". Driver's license, library card, army papers etc. A phony address might be backstopped with phony receipts, utility accounts, or even say just the say-so of a landlord/lady. The extent of backstopping will determine how long the false name, address or business "front" will hold.

Is anyone here on talking terms with Marina? I have a question which may help resolve the core issue here. I don't want to give the question out publicly because you never know who's lurking, and I would prefer it be put to her "cold" and framed so as to avoid it being a leading question.

Now you're getting serious.  The 'interview' must be in her native language, though.
Lawyers will be involved.  But she must be willing, or leave this lady alone.  But then, why not have a "fireside chat" with Ruth as well, the both of them together?  I'm sure they would agree to this on, say, an Oprah Winfrey Special Broadcast.  She's got a nice bully pulpit.  Would that make a difference?  Excuse my dust.

greg parker wrote:Is anyone here on talking terms with Marina?

Not me, Greg. Sorry.

The only person I know in the community with anything like access to Marina is Debra Conway.  But I don't know whether she would be willing to do something like this.

Oprah??  come now, you really think you could trust her or the network to grill them the way they need to be grilled to get anywhere?

Yes.  That's why lawyers would be involved.  This can happen on a slow news week, if that's ever possible again.  Come now, let's try.  Grill them?  Like Glenn V is 'grilling' Shackleford on that facecrook page about Judyth Baker?  What do you expect Marina to say?  And how different would her responses be here than before millions of voyeurs, excuse me, viewers?  I certainly hope Ms. Winfrey is reading this.  It's ONLY a suggestion, Albert.  I'm at my wit's end to garner any other publicity on this "cold case".  Very frustrating, oui ?

I understand your frustration.  But having those two high-profile witnesses on TV again, and going down the same dead ends, would do more damage than good, in my opinion.  And I'm sorry if I am a classist, by I just don't think a venue like Oprah denotes seriousness. How long does it take someone to get familiar enough with this case to be able ask intelligent questions? Do you think Oprah would be that interested to devote the necessary time (like, say, a year's worth of research)? Or would she rely on her network lackeys to come up with "titillating" questions (like what was Lee like in bed?).  What do I expect Marina to say? Nothing terribly new; and at this point, I'm not sure I'd believe anything she says. That's why I think the idea is doomed from the outset.

Dang, Mr. R., you just "dissed" the Diva ("I just don't think a venue like Oprah denotes seriousness") !!!  Was she not a factor in the election of 'O'?  

No one shall "catch" Lee's widow in a lie on O's show, nor Quaker Ruth, unless you phrase the questions in the right and honest way.  That's when the lawyers would have to step in and collect their billable hours, nervously whispering little whatevers in their clients' ears.  Any lip-readers out there ready to watch The Big Show?  Sigh.  But thank you for your response, Albert.  Throwing rocks at the Moon here, wondering if they'll stick to the cheese, ifyouplease.

Albert Rossi wrote:I understand your frustration.  But having those two high-profile witnesses on TV again, and going down the same dead ends, would do more damage than good, in my opinion.  And I'm sorry if I am a classist, by I just don't think a venue like Oprah denotes seriousness. How long does it take someone to get familiar enough with this case to be able ask intelligent questions? Do you think Oprah would be that interested to devote the necessary time (like, say, a year's worth of research)? Or would she rely on her network lackeys to come up with "titillating" questions (like what was Lee like in bed?).  What do I expect Marina to say? Nothing terribly new; and at this point, I'm not sure I'd believe anything she says. That's why I think the idea is doomed from the outset.

I agree 100%.
 
Greg's question was finding someone on talking terms with Marina to ask her a question. If Debra Conway fits the bill, maybe Greg should reach out to her to see if she would be willing to ask it of Marina. The meetup to do so could be low-key, because the important thing here, if I understand correctly, is asking the question and getting the response.

Would this be why there'd be a hypnotist on O's show? 

 Yeah, I'm kind of agreeing with you now, Stan et. al.  Upon further reflection, can see how this would end up being a "deer-in-the-headlights" television drama, complete with the mournful background music, chopped up in between commercials, then soon forgotten.  Or would it be?  National Collective Consciousness is a funny creature in these strange days.  No one knows what "it" is anymore.  Just a comment, and thanks for your time.  Keep going.  Don't stop. Breath Deep.

She and Rachel (if we choose to believe it)are on Twitter:
@MarinaPrusakova
@RachelOswald63

Paul Klein wrote:She and Rachel (if we choose to believe it)are on Twitter:
@MarinaPrusakova
@RachelOswald63

Paul, those accounts (whether it's really them or not) appear to have been set up for the sole purpose of promoting a book that was due out for the 50th. Something seems to have happened however, because we don't get to find out what the book was or who was behind it as all activity on the accounts ended on Nov 22, 2012.

greg parker wrote:

Paul Klein wrote:She and Rachel (if we choose to believe it)are on Twitter:
@MarinaPrusakova
@RachelOswald63

Paul, those accounts (whether it's really them or not) appear to have been set up for the sole purpose of promoting a book that was due out for the 50th. Something seems to have happened however, because we don't get to find out what the book was or who was behind it as all activity on the accounts ended on Nov 22, 2012.

It seems that way, Greg. Still, I think it might be worth a holler with a teaser of sorts, to see if they're still out there. You never know your luck. It might be linked to an email address of theirs.

bump

Over at the Imaginarium there is a 14 page thread called OH LEE AND THE BECKLEY ROOMING HOUSE.

Not a single mention in the whole thread of Herbert Lee.

There was a post by a nutter though who produced a statement by a boarder who recalled Oswald. 
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=375&tab=page

What the nutter didn't say was that Carter was good friends with the Johnsons and also provided a possible link to Ruby

www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10730&relPageId=126 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62485&relPageId=125

There is also this very VERY curious article by Mark Bridger with an alleged former boarder whose name he has changed.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=146508 

He does say at one stage that they all knew him as "Mr Lee". Gotta be Herbert.

But there are many oddities including the claim that there were NO fridge "privileges" and food was strictly banned. 

Barto, is MB still around the UK group? Any chance of finding out who the hell he spoke to?

greg parker wrote:Is anyone here on talking terms with Marina? I have a question which may help resolve the core issue here. I don't want to give the question out publicly because you never know who's lurking, and I would prefer it be put to her "cold" and framed so as to avoid it being a leading question.

 
We have a member who is on talking terms with Marina.

Stan Dane wrote:

greg parker wrote:Is anyone here on talking terms with Marina? I have a question which may help resolve the core issue here. I don't want to give the question out publicly because you never know who's lurking, and I would prefer it be put to her "cold" and framed so as to avoid it being a leading question.

 
We have a member who is on talking terms with Marina.

Ed?

Vinny wrote:

Stan Dane wrote:

greg parker wrote:Is anyone here on talking terms with Marina? I have a question which may help resolve the core issue here. I don't want to give the question out publicly because you never know who's lurking, and I would prefer it be put to her "cold" and framed so as to avoid it being a leading question.

 
We have a member who is on talking terms with Marina.

Ed?

Aghh... if only I could remember what the question was... I could take a wild-arse guess tho...

According to Bill Kelly, not many weeks before the assassination, Ruth Paine wrote her father that Oswald once broke up a fight among kids on the front lawn, telling them violence never settled anything.

Cannot find this correspondence in the MFF data-base, but in an FBI interview, William Hyde mentions letters from Ruth dated Oct 19 and Nov 6 but does not mention either saying anything about Lee breaking up a fight. 

If it is true though, I believe it is further proof that Pat Hall is knowingly running a scam with her fake Oswald-Slept-Here-Museum. 

This is one of the stories she has been spinning since at least 2006, It looks to me like a direct rip-off of the Paine story - a story which is probably true since assuming the letter exists, it was said prior to the assassination:

One afternoon, her brothers got into a fight with each other. A big one. Oswald rushed outside to break it up "He went down and pulled them apart," says Ms. Hall. "He sat them on the front porch and sat down between them. And he said, 'I want to tell you something: You need to love each other and always take care of each other, and you don't fight each other.'"


And then he said something that Ms. Hall and her family will never forget. With the boys at rapt attention, he said, "And don't ever do anything...that would harm another human being." 
https://www.dallasnews.com/arts-entertainment/architecture/2006/03/12/patricia-puckett-hall-remembers-lee-harvey-oswald-before-the-world-descended-on-her-grandmother-s-rooming-house/

This was in a 2013 story

My brothers were rough-necking outside," Hall said, "and Lee was out on the front porch. He pulled them apart from each other and sat them on the stairs, and he says, 'Now, boys, I want y'all to listen to me. You're brothers. You need to love each other. And never, ever do anything that would harm another human being.' "


It was two or three weeks before the assassination.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-peek-inside-lee-harvey-oswalds-room/2/

And as an added bonus, here is Hall admitting her grandparents destroyed material evidence in the crime of the century and then lied t the WC about "forgetting" to bring it.

Hall told Smith that when her grandmother found out what her boarder has allegedly done, "She was scared, humiliated. And, in fact, she even destroyed the sign-in sheets showing that he had paid his rent. She just wanted to erase him.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-peek-inside-lee-harvey-oswalds-room/

Beckley Back Alley :

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Bumping this excellent thread. I wish Lee would return here. He and Ed are great experts on the Beckley issue.

Vinny wrote:Bumping this excellent thread. I wish Lee would return here. He and Ed are great experts on the Beckley issue.

I second that.

Lee's take on the Beckley house and the Markhams were epic.