Prayer Man

First topic message reminder :

Original Prayer Man thread at the Education Forum
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20354-oswald-leaving-tsbd/

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G'day,
I have to say I find it oh so mildly amusing reading some of the comments, thoughts and rants associated on other forums regarding Prayer Man / Oswald on the front steps. It's sad really, watching people who have spent a lifetime married to an idea or a theory, only to witness that idea or theory shattering into a thousand pieces and not accepting the inevitable singular conclusion which is staring them in the face. To Greg Parker, Sean Murphy and all the other amazing researchers following the path of truth in this case I tips me Lid.

Mick

It is Alyea

barto wrote:It is Alyea

Bart, how is it possible to get that clear frame from that washed out blurry film?  And why does everyone look so relaxed? If you didn't grab the still yourself, what is your source for saying it is Alyea?

I'm as confused as Greg on whether this frame is taken from 22/11/63 Alyea footage inside the TSBD or from the re-enactment footage.
This clip does not appear on any of the you-tube material on the net in Oz under Alyea's name.

What might solve the issue is could somebody post the actual clip of the scene as moving images....I think we'd know either way then.

barto wrote:It is Alyea

Hey Barto, could you post the footage somewhere here if you have it. I've never seen this scene before, not as Alyea's anyways.
cheers mate.

From Baker's testimony:

Mr. BELIN - When you continued moving on the elevator after you talked to Inspector Sawyer how far did you go on the elevator?
Mr. BAKER - We went to the, I believe it would be the first floor there.
Mr. BELIN - All right. You got off the elevator then?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you leave Mr. Truly or did you stay with him?
Mr. BAKER - I left Mr. Truly there.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Mr. BAKER - I immediately went on out. I was with this motorcade and I went right on straight through the front door and got on my motorcycle and tried to find out what happened to the motorcade.

Seriously?

at 6:29

barto wrote:Seriously?

at 6:29

Of course, seriously, Barto. The assumption was that the still, if from Alyea's film, came after he came back downstairs because it made no sense for Baker and Truly to be standing around yakking to others before the mad charge upstairs. Nor did it make sense that they look so relaxed - and lastly, I was aware that Baker said he left straight away after returning to the first floor.

I had not seen the full footage before this, so thanks for posting it. It appears to be in chronological order. Is that a reasonable assumption? If so, he has captured Baker and Truly before any search - or - this is evidence no such search occurred at least by those two. 

It is evidence however, that Baker did go in the building - though Alyea's time estimate for his own entry sounds way too quick.

Recall that Alyea says he raced in with a bunch of others - including cops (if I heard correctly). 

Recall also that West testified that he saw Truly come in with a bunch of others - including cops. 

I often wondered why Alyea was not called to give evidence. This film may hold the key to that.

 .

http://www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Anatomy%20of%20the%20second%20floor%20lunch%20room%20encounter-V4%20March%203rd%202018.pdf


Page 107 (scroll to bottom).


Not padding myself on the back here, but this has already been dealt with 2 years ago.

And that Alyea did not show up for the WC is simple, like many many other camera men he was not asked to testify.

barto wrote:http://www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Anatomy%20of%20the%20second%20floor%20lunch%20room%20encounter-V4%20March%203rd%202018.pdf


Page 107 (scroll to bottom).


Not padding myself on the back here, but this has already been dealt with 2 years ago.

And that Alyea did not show up for the WC is simple, like many many other camera men he was not asked to testify.

You deserve a pat on the back, Bart.  I did read it previously, but as others will attest. my memory is not as sharp as it once was.

But I would still have a question mark over whether this was shot when Alyea went in or after coming down from 6.

The film seems to be in sequence. Shots outside, then the first floor, then the 6th. And that seems to match up with the commentary of filming while running to the building. 

If it was shot after coming back down from 6, it must be out of sequence and as you point out, Baker would need to be gilding the lily in his testimony about leaving straight away - and i can't see any reason for him to lie about that. On the other hand, if it was shot when Alyea first went in - then yes, plenty of reason to scrub it from his memory in that case - and to leave Alyea off the witness list.

I know many other cameramen were also not called to give testimony. But Alyea was the only one inside the building - so that really sets him apart in my view.

Did Alyea himself ever shed any light on when that 1st floor film was taken - before or after filming on the 6th?

Not that I know when that piece exactly was taken but the footage is not in sync as shortly after we see a downward shot showing traffic, but this seems to be at least 10-15 mins after the deed. The cops did not go in until almost ten mins later so Baker hung around for at least 15-20 mins easy.

barto wrote:Not that I know when that piece exactly was taken but the footage is not in sync as shortly after we see a downward shot showing traffic, but this seems to be at least 10-15 mins after the deed. The cops did not go in until almost ten mins later so Baker hung around for at least 15-20 mins easy.

Did Alyea claim at some stage that some of his footage went AWOL? Film of chicken bones on the 5th floor etc?

Not that I know ff, only that he salvagedsome of the film from the cutting room floor, but what ended up on this video and what not I have no idea.
Love to interview him about it.

I have reason to believe that the Baker Truly scene is shot outside of the Domino Room door. There are electrical wires running along just above the doorway that can also be seen in the WC interior photos of the tsbd. The first floor is the only floor with that beadboard style of wainscoting on the wall so I believe that pins it down.

Would love to know who the others are. It's like they are trying to get everything they can out of Baker maybe. I tried to analyze if Alyea should have been somewhere else at the times in question
 or if Alyea's presence there sets a time, but haven't been able to formulate much.

Credit Colin Crow:








Would that be near a little storage room (Closet ?) on the first floor. Right where O V Campbell stated he saw Oswald when "we rushed back in"

Kent Biffle must be listening in at this point......or just after this chat, Truly gives Biffle the scoop about the 2nd floor encounter.

Here's what I'm referring to Mick:




It's not absolute, however I do believe it has to be limited to the first floor shipping room area and from the Cutler plan the only other maybe is over by the will-call counter/Truly's office. Maybe somebody else can pick up on something.

Mick Purdy wrote:

Kent Biffle must be listening in at this point......or just after this chat, Truly gives Biffle the scoop about the 2nd floor encounter.

This image is showing me more than I could see on my screen. There is wire or rope hanging down in front of the door opening?? Or are we in front of that electrical panel board?

TC. 00:16 

Credit Barto:

Jake Sykes wrote:Here's what I'm referring to Mick:




It's not absolute, however I do believe it has to be limited to the first floor shipping room area and from the Cutler plan the only other maybe is over by the will-call counter/Truly's office. Maybe somebody else can pick up on something.

Certainly looks close enough to be the same area.

The real theory involves those who believe Oswald did it all by his lonesome.
That's a MOAT (Mother of All Theories).

https://leeharveywho.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/i-dont-know-if-you-got-the-message-but-have-you/

Stan Dane wrote:

The real theory involves those who believe Oswald did it all by his lonesome.
That's a MOAT (Mother of All Theories).

 Great meme,Stan, Unfortunately many do not want to look at all the evidence. All they do is say that is just a blurry picture.

Vinny wrote: Great meme,Stan, Unfortunately many do not want to look at all the evidence. All they do is say that is just a blurry picture.

The "many" include the brain-dead mainstream JFK research community. Some of the most psychologically fucked up people I've even encountered.

True Stan. They ignore PM but discuss all other stuff over and over again.