Prayer Man

Sat 14 Dec 2013, 11:07 am

First topic message reminder :

Original Prayer Man thread at the Education Forum
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20354-oswald-leaving-tsbd/

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

G'day,
I have to say I find it oh so mildly amusing reading some of the comments, thoughts and rants associated on other forums regarding Prayer Man / Oswald on the front steps. It's sad really, watching people who have spent a lifetime married to an idea or a theory, only to witness that idea or theory shattering into a thousand pieces and not accepting the inevitable singular conclusion which is staring them in the face. To Greg Parker, Sean Murphy and all the other amazing researchers following the path of truth in this case I tips me Lid.

Mick

Sun 07 Apr 2019, 11:06 pm

"Mr Oswald had claimed that the encounter with the police officer and Mr Truly had taken place in the vestibule: front entrance, first floor. No doubt in Mr Holmes's mind about this."

This is where some pick the wrong door by assuming "Police officer" has to be a reference to Baker. It does not have to be - and it is not.

Tue 09 Apr 2019, 1:01 pm

First post here in the forum. I just finished reading Prayer Man by Stan Dane. Really great book! I have to admit that I was skeptical when I first heard about this theory, but the book does a really good job of making the case.

Tue 09 Apr 2019, 2:59 pm

DaniDanz wrote:First post here in the forum. I just finished reading Prayer Man by Stan Dane. Really great book! I have to admit that I was skeptical when I first heard about this theory, but the book does a really good job of making the case.

Thank you Dani and welcome! If you are so inclined, I would encourage you to give a review of the book on Amazon. Between the book, our work here, and Bart Kamp's http://www.prayer-man.com/ website, we hope to raise awareness of the facts that exonerate Lee Oswald as the sixth floor gunman.

Tue 09 Apr 2019, 9:12 pm

Welcome to ROKC, Dani.

Wed 10 Apr 2019, 10:29 am

Hello Dani and welcome.

Thu 11 Apr 2019, 5:18 am

Fri 12 Apr 2019, 3:40 am

Thank you all for the welcomes!

I haven't even thought about reviewing the book, but that's a good idea. I often read reviews if I'm on the fence on buying a book.

While there never may be a photo clear enough to positively ID Oswald as Prayer Man, you have to admit that it looks an incredible lot like him. But the clincher for me was the rest of the book which leads to a question about Roy Truly.

If he changed his story as many times as it appears - why? I realize he could have been threatened. He could have been duped. He could have been somehow persuaded that what he thought he did/saw was not what he did/saw. Or he could have cooperated with the changes. Even when I had read far less about the case, he was always a big question mark for me. I know the Warren Commission would not have asked about any changes in his statements, but do you know if anyone else ever asked him about this?

Fri 12 Apr 2019, 8:07 am

Mr. TRULY. When I got back to the first floor, at first I didn't see anything except officers running around, reporters in the place. There was a regular madhouse.

Mr. BELIN. Had they sealed off the building yet, do you know?

Mr. TRULY. I am sure they had.

Mr. BELIN. Then what?

Mr. TRULY. Then in a few minutes--it could have been moments or minutes at a time like that--I noticed some of my boys were over in the west corner of the shipping department, and there were several officers over there taking their names and addresses, and so forth.
There were other officers in other parts of the building taking other employees, like office people's names. I noticed that Lee Oswald was not among these boys.
So I picked up the telephone and called Mr. Aiken down at the other warehouse who keeps our application blanks. Back up there.
First I mentioned to Mr. Campbell--I asked Bill Shelley if he had seen him, he looked around and said no.

Mr. BELIN. When you asked Bill Shelley if he had seen whom?

Mr. TRULY. Lee Oswald. I said, "Have you seen him around lately," and he said no.
So Mr. Campbell is standing there, and I said, "I have a boy over here missing. I don't know whether to report it or not." Because I had another one or two out then. I didn't know whether they were all there or not. He said, "What do you think"? And I got to thinking. He said, "Well, we better do it anyway." It was so quick after that.
So I picked the phone up then and called Mr. Aiken, at the warehouse, and got the boy's name and general description and telephone number and address at Irving.

Mr. BELIN. Did you have any address for him in Dallas, or did you just have an address in Irving?

Mr. TRULY. Just the address in Irving. I knew nothing of this Dallas address. I didn't know he was living away from his family.

Mr. BELIN. Now, would that be the address and the description as shown on this application, Exhibit 496?

Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Did you ask for the name and addresses of any other employees who might have been missing?

Mr. TRULY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Why didn't you ask for any other employees?

Mr. TRULY. That is the only one that I could be certain right then was missing.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do after you got that information?

Mr. TRULY. Chief Lumpkin of the Dallas Police Department was standing a few feet from me. I told Chief Lumpkin that I had a boy missing over here "I don't know whether it amounts to anything or not." And I gave him his description. And he says, "Just a moment. We will go tell Captain Fritz."

Mr. BELIN. All right. And then what happened?

Mr. TRULY. So Chief Lumpkin had several officers there that he was talking to, and I assumed that he gave him some instructions of some nature I didn't hear it. And then he turned to me and says, "Now we will go upstairs".
So we got on one of the elevators, I don't know which, and rode up to the sixth floor. I didn't know Captain Fritz was on the sixth floor. And he was over in the northwest corner of the building.

Mr. BELIN. By the stairs there?

Mr. TRULY. Yes; by the stairs.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. TRULY. And there were other officers with him. Chief Lumpkin stepped over and told Captain Fritz that I had something that I wanted to tell him.

Mr. BELIN. All right. And then what happened

Mr. TRULY. So Captain Fritz left the men he was with and walked over about 8 or 10 feet and said, "What is it, Mr. Truly," or words to that effect.
And I told him about this boy missing and gave him his address and telephone number and general description. And he says, "Thank you, Mr. Truly. We will take care of it.
And I went back downstairs in a few minutes.
There was a reporter followed me away from that spot, and asked me who Oswald was. I told the reporter, "You must have ears like a bird, or something. I don't want to say anything about a boy I don't know anything about. This is a terrible thing." Or words to that effect.
I said, "Don't bother me. Don't mention the name. Let's find something out."
So I went back downstairs with Chief Lumpkin.

Welcome Dani,

Truly in my opinion is highly suspicious. He alone set the wheels in motion for the police to go looking for Oswald. That missing boy from the TSBD.
It was he, who armed with false information convinced Fritz through Lumpkin that Oswald was missing when in fact he had left the building after being told there would be no more work for the day.

Truly lied, and Oswald died.

Fri 12 Apr 2019, 9:05 am

Truly said it himself... the building was sealed by the time he got back down. He had allegedly seen Oswald only roughly 90 seconds after the shots were fired and had no suspicions at that time. So he comes back down from searching the the top floor and what? Sees Oswald is missing and the building is sealed and doesn't think, "I guess Lee ducked outside to see what was going on and now can't get back in." No. He thinks, "Lee is missing and that's suspicious, I better tell the cops." Hell, did he even go out to check who was on the steps waiting to see if they will be allowed back in? I'm sure the cops would have let him poke his head out at least.

It is what is buried from easy view that often reveals the truth. We know now that Truly was stationed at the door with Det. Kaminski while Kaminski got contact details from people as they left. Truly was there to verify if they were employees or not. As in "He's alright, he works here". Yep, those immortal words were uttered by Truly to Kaminski at the front entrance - not Truly to Baker on the second floor.

Here is what Oswald flashed at Kaminski for ID.

Prayer Man - Page 15 Save+3

Kaminski, in trying to read it upside down, wrote "Harvey Lee Oswald, 605 Elsbeth" which is what we see at the top of the list created from the names and addresses taken by Kaminski.

Roy Truly was related by marriage to disgraced ex-Navy Secretary Fred Korth.

Wife Mildred Truly was a cousin to Claire Chennault, Flying Tigers founder, founder of Civil Air Transport (which became Air America) and former runner of an agent in a dog's collar named John Birch.

Roy Truly was the inside man and treated like a hero by the FBI when he went to Washington to give evidence, even to the extent of a personal tour of FBI HQ.

Lee Oswald was innocent of any involvement other than as patsy. The shit some come out with that he was no shooter "but must have been involved" in some way - is just that - utter shit - derived from the need to connect every fucking detail of every fucking thing that every happened. Mostly, they are conflating his past efforts for intel with the assassination plot. It is not even certain he ever worked for any service beyond basic courier. Anything above and beyond that may have been nothing more than him being used as an unwitting asset.

This case should be reopened. We have a very solid circumstantial case that Oswald was innocent, and we have very good list of "persons of interest" for who aided in setting Oswald up and had possible involvement beyond that - Truly, Korth and the Paines. Those names lead us to others... Claire Chennault Jr for example was heavily involved in Cuban affairs and paramilitary groups.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=90863&relPageId=12&search=chennault

Fri 12 Apr 2019, 9:16 am

Lee Oswald was innocent of any involvement other than as patsy. The shit some come out with that he was no shooter "but must have been involved" in some way - is just that - utter shit - derived from the need to connect every fucking detail of every fucking thing that every happened.

I should add they also have a habit of inserting stuff like Revill's list with the reversed Christian names and wrong address into their wild conspiracy musings, instead of first ruling out any possible non-conspiracy explanations.

It gets to the point where someone writes that this "wrong" info must have come from Army intel -- and that gets repeated so often, it mistakenly becomes an established fact. There are many many other examples of this and it just adds extra layers of bullshit over the WC bullshit.

Fri 12 Apr 2019, 1:27 pm

"I don't know all the theories, but I think it originated in the Texas School Book Depository" Ruth Dean, No More Silence by Larry Sneed, p 72

Fri 12 Apr 2019, 4:36 pm

"I wasnt able to tell where the shots were coming from." Ruth Dean- No More Silence page 71

She knew enough of the 'theories' it appears.
Ed

Sat 13 Apr 2019, 5:49 am

greg parker wrote:Roy Truly was related by marriage to disgraced ex-Navy Secretary Fred Korth.

Wife Mildred Truly was a cousin to Claire Chennault, Flying Tigers founder, founder of Civil Air Transport (which became Air America) and former runner of an agent in a dog's collar named John Birch.

Roy Truly was the inside man and treated like a hero by the FBI when he went to Washington to give evidence, even to the extent of a personal tour of FBI HQ.

Lee Oswald was innocent of any involvement other than as patsy. The shit some come out with that he was no shooter "but must have been involved" in some way - is just that - utter shit - derived from the need to connect every fucking detail of every fucking thing that every happened. Mostly, they are conflating his past efforts for intel with the assassination plot. It is not even certain he ever worked for any service beyond basic courier. Anything above and beyond that may have been nothing more than him being used as an unwitting asset.

This case should be reopened.

I did not realize the extent of Roy Truly's family connections. While I hesitate to use that as a basis for accusation, it does raise fascinating possibilities when viewed in tandem with his actions & statements. (Much like the Paines who said & did many questionable things and had fascinating relatives as well).

I don't think Oswald shot anyone, but I do fall in that group which believes he must have known something besides the fact that he didn't pull any triggers that day. I can't prove that. I don't have a great alternate theory. I'm open to possibilities. But I can't quite resolve all the other facts of what happened that weekend + what we know of Oswald's life in 1963 with the idea that he didn't know people who were involved in the overall conspiracy.

And I totally agree that this case should be reopened as well as the investigations around RFK & MLK. I used to think that I was really well read in history, but I swear that the more I read, the more I realize that I have so much to learn.

Sat 13 Apr 2019, 10:47 am

DaniDanz wrote:

greg parker wrote:Roy Truly was related by marriage to disgraced ex-Navy Secretary Fred Korth.

Wife Mildred Truly was a cousin to Claire Chennault, Flying Tigers founder, founder of Civil Air Transport (which became Air America) and former runner of an agent in a dog's collar named John Birch.

Roy Truly was the inside man and treated like a hero by the FBI when he went to Washington to give evidence, even to the extent of a personal tour of FBI HQ.

Lee Oswald was innocent of any involvement other than as patsy. The shit some come out with that he was no shooter "but must have been involved" in some way - is just that - utter shit - derived from the need to connect every fucking detail of every fucking thing that every happened. Mostly, they are conflating his past efforts for intel with the assassination plot. It is not even certain he ever worked for any service beyond basic courier. Anything above and beyond that may have been nothing more than him being used as an unwitting asset.

This case should be reopened.

I did not realize the extent of Roy Truly's family connections. While I hesitate to use that as a basis for accusation, it does raise fascinating possibilities when viewed in tandem with his actions & statements. (Much like the Paines who said & did many questionable things and had fascinating relatives as well).

I don't think Oswald shot anyone, but I do fall in that group which believes he must have known something besides the fact that he didn't pull any triggers that day. I can't prove that. I don't have a great alternate theory. I'm open to possibilities. But I can't quite resolve all the other facts of what happened that weekend + what we know of Oswald's life in 1963 with the idea that he didn't know people who were involved in the overall conspiracy.

And I totally agree that this case should be reopened as well as the investigations around RFK & MLK. I used to think that I was really well read in history, but I swear that the more I read, the more I realize that I have so much to learn.

Roy Truly's family connections were prevously unknown and unpublished. That work was done by myself and another person who prefers anonymity because of his profession. It started when I noticed that Roy and the daughter of Fred Korth both shared the unusual middle name of Sansom. I guessed correctly that it was the surname of a common forebear. It was, although not to Korth as I initially thought, but to Korth's wife. After finding that, my friend did some digging on Truly's wife and found her father's obit which listed him as a cousin to the Flying Tiger's founder.

Korth was not just a disgraced former navy secretary. He was also on the side of the hawks wanting to nuke Cuba during the Missile Crisis. Moreover, he was the lawyer for Edwin Ekdahl in his divorce of Marguerite. Edwin's office was diagonally opposite Fred's office in Fort Worth. And Korth was named by Marguerite Oswald as the person she most suspected of involvement. She also claimed that Korth had helped Lee get out of the Marines early.

I can understand you believing Lee was involved because of the "unresolved other facts of what happened that weekend and what we know of Oswald's life in 1963."

That is why so many think he had knowledge or involvement. Completely understandable conclusion.

And completely wrong because the facts are more accurately "facts".

Lee never did any of the following

got a bus and taxi to the Beckley apartment
lived at the Beckley apartment
left a wedding ring on the dresser on the morning of Nov 22
bought a wedding ring for himself
went to Mexico City
visited Sylvia Odio
lied about curtain rods
lived at the Neely St apartment (although Marina and June may have)
represented himself to be OH Lee or AJ Hidell
made a fake Hidell selective service card

Most on that list have a mountain of supporting research to back them up on this forum. The issue of the ring is the subject of a three part series of articles I did for Jim di Eugenio to be published on his site soon.

Lee was sent to Russia wittingly as a low level courier. From there on, he was used unwittingly - up to and including getting him into the TSBD. He believed he was placed there to keep on eye on Joe Molina, when the real reason was his use as a potential patsy.

Sat 13 Apr 2019, 11:52 am

For clarification... some of what I have said here is not proven fact, but is nevertheless, very well supported by the evidence - much better supported than the official versions.

Sun 14 Apr 2019, 12:55 am

I hope i don't derail this thread. This is my first post after a lengthy absence and i just want t say how great it is t be back.
This is the only forum for serious research. The other forums have become grotesquely bloated self parodies. Visiting Deep Arseholes is like eavesdropping mental patients rehearsing a self penned rock opera based on the life of Torquemada with Lemkin as Pope Alexander VI handing out communion wafers made of LSD and Largactol. Dawn Meredith as a post menopausal Lucretia. Larry Trotter can play the double role of Cesares codpiece and the back end of the papal horse
Der Forum a daytime soap chronicling Adolf and Eva's last days together in Bariloche. Burnham of course starring in both roles with a cameo from Drago as the corpulent shade of Mussolini.
Apart from Jim DiE , Larry H and a couple of others the Education Forum should be turned into a car park.
Don Jeffries as the attendant.
Isn't it blindingly obvious that after over 55 years of wandering down dead end after dead end a radical new approach is needed.
Everything should be questioned and nothing should be considered sacred.
Fuck the sanctimonious dogmatic fundamentalists that have turned this case into ghoulish tabloid sideshow.
Ralph Cinque touted as an expert on Info Wars was the absolute nadir.
People are threatened by ROKC because of its agenda. Its not out t drown the case in doctrinaire sludge only so they can argue who gets t write the epitaph. Or if its Lee Harvey or Harvey Lee on the tombstone. Or build up fractured egos by creating mysteries simply to say " we've solved it".
ROKC is out t solve this fucking case. Full stop.
The standard of research here is unparalleled.
Just look at Prayerman. Greg Barto Ed Stan et al are coming ever closer t THE breakthrough.
Combined with the destruction of the 2FLE fable we have a whole new perspective, a new understanding of the actual mechanics of what actually happened.
With Greg's help i hope t do some work on Oswalds stay in the Soviet Union.
Like many other aspects of this case this angle has been poorly understood and woefully under researched. James Bond fantasies have replaced what actually happened.
I can stand people who argue for conspiracy for conspiracies sake. It's lazy and intellectually dishonest. Its happened far too often. Certain witnesses have been elevated t near sainthood.
I remember being infuriated by Jeffries lecturing Greg and calling him a neo con. Fools like him are part of the problem not the solution. They cling t conspiracy the rigidly. To them it is a religion.
And we all know where religion leads.
Rant over.
It's just great t b back here. All you folks should be really fucking proud of what you've achieved. What you are achieving

Sun 14 Apr 2019, 1:43 am

Is that you, Lee? Welcome back.

Sun 14 Apr 2019, 8:07 am

Vinny wrote:Is that you, Lee? Welcome back.

Vinny,

No, it's not Lee. Or Hasan. Or Paul. All sorely missed.

I believe Alex had a very brief posting history a few years back and is a welcome addition again now, with access to Soviet experts.

His recent emails have had me in stitches, but don't let that mask his knowledge of the case or what he can bring to the table. He will fit right in.

Sun 14 Apr 2019, 8:15 pm

Thanks Greg. Looking forward to his posts.

Mon 15 Apr 2019, 7:55 am

alex wilson wrote:It's just great t b back here. All you folks should be really fucking proud of what you've achieved. What you are achieving

Glad to see you're here, Alex. You certainly display the ROKC attitude! Looking forward to your contributions.

Mon 15 Apr 2019, 1:25 pm

At 53:49 a man exits the TSBD
I notice something on him catches the light, it's nearly a recreation of Prayer Man!

Please review and comment.

https://youtu.be/1pDX0IOiGi8

Cheers, Ed

Mon 15 Apr 2019, 3:01 pm

Sorry Ed, can't seem to locate that at 53:49

Mon 15 Apr 2019, 3:10 pm

Sorry 4:39

Mon 15 Apr 2019, 3:13 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Sorry 4:39

Thanks mate, I could've looked harder......eyes are not what they were Wink

Mon 15 Apr 2019, 3:42 pm

Just grabbed the sequence I think you are referring to, Ed. I'll make it into a short video clip and put it up here momentarily.

Prayer Man

Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Kennedy:A Legacy In Blood

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man

Re: Prayer Man