Prayer Man

First topic message reminder :

Original Prayer Man thread at the Education Forum
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20354-oswald-leaving-tsbd/

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G'day,
I have to say I find it oh so mildly amusing reading some of the comments, thoughts and rants associated on other forums regarding Prayer Man / Oswald on the front steps. It's sad really, watching people who have spent a lifetime married to an idea or a theory, only to witness that idea or theory shattering into a thousand pieces and not accepting the inevitable singular conclusion which is staring them in the face. To Greg Parker, Sean Murphy and all the other amazing researchers following the path of truth in this case I tips me Lid.

Mick

No worries, Thanks Stan!
B&W recreation just happens to have a man exiting the TSBD.
He is average height.
Wearing a suit
And something catches the light.
You seeing it mate
Ed

PS where he exits the door puts him in PM position,
From cursory review fits PM to a tee.
Step out and you are in the shadowy corner.

Wow!
Blown away.
Thanks Mick and Stan!!!

Well, a match for PM, a match for the alibi.
How about that.
Ed

Stan Dane wrote:

Interesting video sequence. For one, it's damn close to the same perspective of Darnell and Wiegman, looking into the same corner. So that's valuable for a variety of reasons.

Notice how you can see the face of the man (faint whitish blob) in the Prayer Man position, clearly in the shadows as he starts to come down the steps. (1:14)

Then, as the camera pans and as he moves down the steps (1:28), you can see a white blob about where we know the radiator is in the vestibule behind the glass.

But as the man continues to descend (1:35-1:41), it becomes clear the whitish blob seen in 1:28 is the reflection off the center rail.

The man's face becomes fully illuminated by the sun by 1:44.

I'm not sure what I'm seeing at 1:49. Almost looks like two heads. A blur possibly.

Back at the zoomed out sequence (0:59), you can see the size of the man as he steps onto the sidewalk.

Nods to that Stan!!

The man exiting has two objects that reflect white.
His face and another object.


We will look at the other object or blob in next post.
Ed

A. We see the blobs are similar in size.



By C. we can differentiate the face from the other object

Is it the mans hand holding a shoulder strap, etc?




By E. we can see it was possibly his shoulder reflecting (see previous image B and man on sidewalks shoulder reflect) this despite a apparent dark suit.

Mans hand and face reflecting or face and object?
Ed

Flipped image by Alan Ford.

Stan Dane wrote:

Stan Dane wrote:

Interesting video sequence. For one, it's damn close to the same perspective of Darnell and Wiegman, looking into the same corner. So that's valuable for a variety of reasons.

Notice how you can see the face of the man (faint whitish blob) in the Prayer Man position, clearly in the shadows as he starts to come down the steps. (1:14)

Then, as the camera pans and as he moves down the steps (1:28), you can see a white blob about where we know the radiator is in the vestibule behind the glass.

But as the man continues to descend (1:35-1:41), it becomes clear the whitish blob seen in 1:28 is the reflection off the center rail.

The man's face becomes fully illuminated by the sun by 1:44.

I'm not sure what I'm seeing at 1:49. Almost looks like two heads. A blur possibly.

Back at the zoomed out sequence (0:59), you can see the size of the man as he steps onto the sidewalk.

Agreed Stan,

1:49, seeing the same as you. Probably my lying eyes but I do see two men also. Probably just a aberrations but a bit hard to say either way. Anyways, interesting frames especially in light of the Darnell Weigman frames

Agree with the above observations except for one item. One of the two figures is not a guy. It's Sarah Stanton! Again! 

Haha, yeah Jake, you can tell by the wig huh?

Mick in the zoomed out version you can see the top blob becomes the side of his face,. Then the other white blob is either his shoulder or a very clean pocket square.

Here is the man after descending the steps and rounding the corner of the vestibule onto Elm Extension sidewalk.

As the mans head enters the sunplane... oh brother I sound like Brian Doyle... his head and face neck, shirt collar all begin reflecting.

Zooming in on him you can see as he exits the shadows his head, a pocket square, and his hand.





Cheers, Ed

Pocket square (handkerchief)
Or
His shoulder.

What do you think that is?
Ed

Ed agreed.

Also agree with Jake ...second person is female- weighs 300lb's or more and seems to be wearing a wig, but only for professional purposes.

You simply are desperately trying to put Lee outside in front of the TSBD as the Parade was passing by and WHILE the shots were being fired.....

Question...WHAT IS THE ONE THING THAT ALL SPECTATORS REPORTED?  ...answer:...    Every last one of the spectators reported hearing gun shots.....Did Lee Oswald EVER say anything about hearing gunshots?     ....Answer ....NO he did not.....  WHY?   Because he was in a place in which the gunshots could not be heard....a place like the second Floor lunchroom ...or the stair well between floors.



Logged
There is a serious point to this Cakebread gibberish. Was Oswald asked, or did he volunteer his opinion, on the number and direction of the shots? The answer from the scant notes is no. This would make him the only person who wasn't asked.

steely dan wrote:There is a serious point to this Cakebread gibberish. Was Oswald asked, or did he volunteer his opinion, on the number and direction of the shots? The answer from the scant notes is no. This would make him the only person who wasn't asked.

Concerning Lee Oswald for the period of November 22-24, 1963, here's a table for Cakebread to fill out:

Just in from Brian...

I've been saying this for years...

The reason no one ever asked Oswald if he heard the shots is because they did not want to provoke him to say he was in the 2nd floor lunch room during the shots...



Brian, you've been spouting crap for years...I should know...I've studied you for years. Not once have you ever mentioned why Oswald was never asked if he heard shots.
If you keep lying Stinky will mod you again.

I've been saying this for years...
Brian has smoked himself retarded

Dingo just doesn't get that using the Reid Technique avoids his alibi.
Cops ask questions they already know the answers for.
Brian thinks the DPD were helping Lee and just forgot about asking him if he'd seen any strangers in the building, source of shots, how many shots, ....

If you are standing on the steps, and run to the railroad yard where did you hear the shots?

Brian, you're brilliant! Lee was attempting to locate the source of the shots and picked the second floor lunchroom.
Your genius n-ever fails
Ed

To the denialist whom could never admit that the less than famous Lee Oswald could have gone unnoticed in the vestibule, with their collective backs turned, whilst the presidents head was being shot open amidst gunfire.
Was everyone playing Spot The Oswald at 12:30



Cheers
Ed

"In my own, regionally-correct, experience, after 20+ years of living in the Dallas area, I have yet to hear anyone use the term "porch" to refer to a vestibule, or vice versa. And I have never --ever-- heard anyone use "vestibule" to refer to any exterior space."
~ Mitch Todd

Well prepare yourself Mitch Todd
Two of the buildings (the former Texas School Book Depository and the Dallas Textile Building), like others in the West End, began as early 20th-century Dallas warehouses for Chicago farm implement companies. Like their main commercial tenants, their architecture reflects the influence of Chicago in this case, that city's early skyscraper construction. The other buildings have had governmental functions and reflect more traditional architectural styles. Texas School Book Depository (Southern Rock Island Plow Company Building) (now Dallas County Administration Building) 411 Elm StreetThis 7-story 80,000-square-foot red brick structure was built in 1901 by an unknown architect as a warehouse and showroom for the Rock Island Plow Company of Illinois; it replaced an 1898 structure that burned earlier the same year.22 The free-standing warehouse, about 100 feet square, stands on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston streets. Its main facade is on Elm Street extended (the pre-1936 Elm Street) with the eastern side on Houston Street.
The warehouse, though it possesses certain characteristics of early Chicago skyscraper construction, was built with Classical details, including arched windows on all floors except seven, with those on six being round arched on the central five of the seven bays of each facade; multi-story pilasters (running floors two to six) with limestone capitals, and other stylized features characteristic of early 20th-century warehouses.

If you are regionally challenged Id be happy to help you Mitch.
See to Greg Parker of Australia its all a region called America. Or North America, still it is American.
That means it, the people and architecture can be a mix of any type from several areas and periods.

Like this fine example may help you Mitch Todd.

In modern architecture, vestibule typically refers to a small room next to the outer door and connecting it with the interior of the building. In ancient Roman architecture, vestibule (Latin:vestibulum) referred to a partially enclosed area between the interior of the house and the street.

So the TSBD had Modern and Classical elements of architecture mixed.
It had a classic vestibulum or vestibule.
It has a partially enclosed area between interior and exterior.
Need I include a picture of the TSBD for you to notice the columns (half) flanking the entrace.
This is in Dallas. YOUR REGION Mitch Todd.

Ancient usage

Vestibules were common in ancient Greek temples. Due to the construction techniques available at the time, it was not possible to build large spans. Consequently, many entrance ways had two rows of columns that supported the roof and created a distinct space around the entrance.[5]

In ancient Roman architecture, where the term originates, a vestibule was a space between the interior of a building and the street. The structure was a mixture between a modern hall and porch.
(There's that pesky word Mitch Todd, porch)
Upon entering a Roman house or domus, one would have to pass through the vestibule before entering the atrium.[6]


Webster Dictionary

Vestibule(noun)
the porch or entrance into a house; a hall or antechamber next the entrance; a lobby; a porch; a hall

Dang my friend you must admit vestibules are called a porch by now. Even in your region, huh Mitch Todd

But wait there is more to assist you my new friend Mitch Todd.

...roots of the American front porch.

The word "porch" originally derives from "the latin word porticus, or the greek word portico, both of which signify the columned entry to a Classical temple"(Kahn 1). As history unfolded and the Middle Ages arrived, the porch came to represent a cathedral's vestibule

Well Mitch Todd I can now appreciate your regoinal rationalization but its unsupported.
Cheers,
Ed

Bpete's examples of second floor vestibules are all non-classical.

Eg.
Vestibule in Fort Niagara
https://www.thewingedsandals.com/old-fort-niagara-new-york/

https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.ny1257.photos/?sp=13
Second floor hallway, why not call it a vestibule too?
Because that second floor vestibule is over the first floor vestibule and directly connected by two curved stairways, thus a communicating space, now say that about the supposed second floor 'vestibule' at tsbd unconnected to the outside... an Un-vestibulum indeed.
Oh and the "vestibule" is accommodating for entry, take off coat, boots.
Where are you to do this in the second floor lunchrooms 'vestibule', in the hallway? Laughing.

https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.ny1257.photos/?sp=7
Notice these elements and the Vestibules connections to outside.


 n. 1. an antechamber, hall, or lobby next to the outer door of a building.∎  an enclosed entrance compartment in a railroad car.
2. Anat. a chamber or channel communicating with or opening into another
3. Ante-chamber acting as a baffle between e.g. a corridor and a room, really a communication lobby. 

Communicating spaces,,, Are typically hallways.
Communicating vestibules tho are not, and are differentiated by an outside opening.

As on his other examples Bpete uses a communicating space or connecting vestibules in non classical architectural styles such as the fort he used.
I think Bpete was lazy and did nothing but google second floor vestibule which only produces the 4 selected non classical examples.

Cheers,
Ed

After a lenghty spell in his growing tent Brian produced this...

The reason Holmes overheard Oswald say Vestibule is because the enclosure over the 2nd floor lunch room door was referred to as Vestibule by the Depository employees because that is what it was called by the construction company that built it...It had been built recently as part of the office renovations so the employees called it what it had been described as by the construction company on their blueprints and by Truly...Never was the Lobby by the front steps ever referred to as the "Vestibule"...This is only being suggested by the Prayer Man website members in their desperate attempt to bend all evidence towards Prayer Man being Oswald...It is amazing how otherwise credible researchers look the other way on this and actually then credit KMan's group and fall for this bogus evidence...

When you disprove the Prayer Man people they respond by deliberately ignoring you and then trying to exterminate you from the JFK research internet...
« Last Edit: Today at 01:55:33 PM by Brian Doyle »

Brian will shortly produce the blueprint and testimony of employees referring to his version of vestibule...or he'll head back to the tent for some more "inspiration".

From Gus Rose:


When you’re interrogating somebody, you try to establish a rapport with them, and you set about to do that without getting into the actual case. I did ask him about his arrest and he said, “Oh, I was just sitting in the theater and officers came in and planted a gun on me and accused me of shooting somebody. I don’t know nothing about that!” So it was that type of interrogation with him. When I first saw him, he looked okay except for being sweaty and the injury over one eye. He did settle down somewhat and became less nervous in this short interrogation, though he was still combative with his answers. I found him to be arrogant and belligerent and almost in a state of confusion. He denied emphatically that he’d done anything wrong, almost overdenial. I’ve been involved in lots of interrogations, and it was almost overkill on his denials. His attitude was “I haven’t done anything; I’ve been framed,” which wasn’t bad from the standpoint of interrogation.

Sneed, Larry A.. No More Silence: An Oral History of the Assassination of President Kennedy (p. 338). Texas A&M University Press. Kindle Edition.