Prayer Man

First topic message reminder :

Original Prayer Man thread at the Education Forum
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20354-oswald-leaving-tsbd/

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G'day,
I have to say I find it oh so mildly amusing reading some of the comments, thoughts and rants associated on other forums regarding Prayer Man / Oswald on the front steps. It's sad really, watching people who have spent a lifetime married to an idea or a theory, only to witness that idea or theory shattering into a thousand pieces and not accepting the inevitable singular conclusion which is staring them in the face. To Greg Parker, Sean Murphy and all the other amazing researchers following the path of truth in this case I tips me Lid.

Mick

(and I believe all the other spectators on the steps were TSBD employees) 


Yes, very good point. In fact that would make the chances of the unidentified male standing a top of the stairs in the far left hand corner of the landing being a total stranger even more remarkable. We need to grasp this and understand how utterly impossible it would have been for anybody who was on those steps to come forward and insist that Lee Oswald was there - on the landing - no matter how fleetingly. A quiet word from the Dallas Police or whoever would've been enough to quiet their recollections. Of course this is just my opinion.

Prayer Man seems to have been Invisible Man. Nobody seems to remember seeing him. Off course the two people closest to him Frazier and Molina both had run ins with the authorities soon after. Molina's house was raided by the DPD looking for subversive material. I wonder if it was a warning to him to not tell anyone who he saw on the steps.

the gilbride at mcstinky's wrote:Possibly it was one of the Houston St. warehouse guys, Franklin Wester or Gordon Smith. I'm working on a distant memory from my (References & links to websites which contain pornographic images and/or abusive content directed at members of this Forum is strictly prohibited ) days around 2013, but I think neither of them acknowledged watching the motorcade. This photo looks like it was taken around 1:00 PM, so perhaps one of them walked up to the Depository to see what was going on. Just a guess. As far as I know there are no pictures of Wester or Smith, nor even Eddie Shields, who was the foreman down there. A bookkeeper in his 60s, H.S. Aiken, kept his office down there. Charles Givens occasionally also worked down there.

Gordon Smith told the FBI he worked at the Houston St warehouse and could offer nothing about what happened in Dealey Plaza or the immediate vicinity of the Elm St warehouise.

Franklin Wester told the FBI that he worked at the Houston St warehouse, knew nothing about the assassination until his wife phoned him and did not leave the building until between 3:00 nd 3:30.

This "anyone but Oswald" farce knows no limit to credulity, reason or sanity. 

This was a reply to the Gilbride post by one of Stinky's inmates - a Jerry Down - possibly a relative to Bob Down and tracing back to the infamous Ankizzamiass dynasty.

Jerry Down wrote:So prayerman was quiet possibly one of the tsbd guys that worked at the other warehouse? That destroys the prayerman theory.

See the brains at work here? An unsupported, uncited hail mary post from a paint-sniffing hunter of li'l green men, is elevated to the level of making all the alibi evidence null and void.

It's a whole new level of stupid.

When you start the argument with "Possibly" you know that said argument is not worth a damn. The delusions of Richard Gilbride, who simply will not and cannot learn.

Next!

So many researchers are desperate to keep Oswald away from the front steps at any cost. They will grasp at any straw.

According to Pat Speer at the Ed Forum:

Several years back a 'good quality" copy of the Darnell film was located and viewed by some prominent researchers. I was guaranteed by one of them that this was gonna come out and that it would change everything, as it was 99.99% obvious to him from viewing this film that Prayer Man was Oswald. I told him I'd believe it when I saw it for myself. I'm still waiting.

Can anyone tell me if this is this correct? If a good-quality version was made available, how good was the quality, and what did it show?

I doubt it Jeremy, without a proper source, this is just talk.

Oswald's alibi is out.
It has changed everything.
Prayer Man exists and no one can hide him or the alibi any longer.
No thanks to NBC

Was anyone ever allowed to view the first gen copy at the 6th floor museum? I didn’t think so but even if they did, Speer is making it sound like it’s this alleged prominent researcher’s fault that scans haven’t been released, which is preposterous. Even if it’s a different copy though I can’t imagine anyone would intentionally keep it under wraps, Oswald or not. I’d ask for a source.

From what I’ve seen, Speer has been unreasonably opposed to PM/Oswald’s alibi but from the beginning - and even though a lot of it is great work, and at times he says the opposite, there are several hints throughout his online book that he thinks Oswald was one of the shooters, and I think that’s why he’s so dismissive. He wants Oswald on the sixth floor.

JFK_FNG where is the link to Speer's remark...thx

And yes Ed correct, it is just that these numbskulls do not get it it is spoiling their partee....

barto wrote:JFK_FNG where is the link to Speer's remark...thx

And yes Ed correct, it is just that these numbskulls do not get it it is spoiling their partee....

Not sure which remark you are referring to, so for the quote Jeremy posted it’s from this Ed forum thread:

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/27630-the-other-zapruder-film/page/5/

For examples of Speer hinting at a belief in Oswald’s guilt, at least partially, there are quite a few instances on his website. One I remember offhand is from his Conclusions chapter where he talks about empty shells left in Oswald’s guns. He does qualify what he says with “Oswald and/or those setting up Oswald”, but there are other more blatant examples I can find if you’d like:

https://www.patspeer.com/chapter20conclusionsandconfusions

Pat Speers quote is this -

I guess you weren't invited to the party. Several years back a 'good quality" copy of the Darnell film was located and viewed by some prominent researchers. I was guaranteed by one of them that this was gonna come out and that it would change everything, as it was 99.99% obvious to him from viewing this film that Prayer Man was Oswald. I told him I'd believe it when I saw it for myself. I'm still waiting. And I think I know why. Because those in possession of this "breakthrough" evidence have decided to hold it back, seeing as its release would damage their argument instead of helping it. 


I'm not sure if Jeremy misread it as Pat seems to be saying he was told it was clear it was Oswald and not not Oswald


https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/27630-the-other-zapruder-film/page/5/

David Butler wrote:Pat Speers quote is this -

I guess you weren't invited to the party. Several years back a 'good quality" copy of the Darnell film was located and viewed by some prominent researchers. I was guaranteed by one of them that this was gonna come out and that it would change everything, as it was 99.99% obvious to him from viewing this film that Prayer Man was Oswald. I told him I'd believe it when I saw it for myself. I'm still waiting. And I think I know why. Because those in possession of this "breakthrough" evidence have decided to hold it back, seeing as its release would damage their argument instead of helping it. 


I'm not sure if Jeremy misread it as Pat seems to be saying he was told it was clear it was Oswald and not not Oswald


https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/27630-the-other-zapruder-film/page/5/

This was a guy who had contacted a small number of researchers offering to sell the film. He wanted an exhorbitant amount for it and I'm not sure if any of them got to see it. Maybe they did, I simply don't recall. I know the negotiations dragged on for a little while before those involved as potential buyers gave up. Not sure what if any conclusions they reached but it always seemed like a scam to me,  as an uninvolved observer with only sketchy details of what was going on.

I saw the film.
The Sarah Stanton shot is pulled from it
http://www.prayer-man.com/camera/james-glen-darnell/
Plus there is footage that no one ever saw before I posted stills of this at my Darnell page. 
The film is not better it’s worse in some parts.
Furthermore there was something that made me break contact w the guy immediately after I found out what he had done.
And no I will not clarify any further.

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen. We're still waiting for a good-quality copy, and Prayer Man might still be Oswald.

David - yes, I think I misread it. I took it to mean that the owners of the film were hiding it away, rather than that the researcher was hiding it away.

The deniers keep trying to push Oswald off the front steps, but we manage to push him back there. They are fighting a losing battle.

Vinny wrote:The deniers keep trying to push Oswald off the front steps, but we manage to push him back there. They are fighting a losing battle.

Just like the Fed's and the Dallas cops did on Saturday 23rd November and then for ever after. An innocent man persecuted in death for over 58 years. Every single one of these so called researchers who peddle the bullshit about his guilt or the mainstream Media who go along for the same ride, they're all complicit in this travesty of justice. They have a mans blood on their hands, an innocent man. It's time this nonsense was outed and shamed completely. An all out effort must be made to put this to bed before the 60th Anniversary of JFK's death. These vile creatures who haven't a clue, who haven't bothered to research, who repeat the lies, who inflate their already bloated bloody ego's need to be smashed outta the arena forever. It starts today, from this moment on. They are in our sights and we will destroy the Myth. I'm convinced of that. I'm up for it - I'm on a mission, and I know I'm on the right side. Let's get this done.

I agree Mick. This whole issue needs to be sorted out soon. Would be great if it happened before the 60th Anniversary of JFK's death in 2023. Sadly as you pointed out the so called research community is not likely to help in way. They are comfortable with the status quo.

Vinny wrote:I agree Mick. This whole issue needs to be sorted out soon. Would be great if it happened before the 60th Anniversary of JFK's death in 2023. Sadly as you pointed out the so called research community is not likely to help in way. They are comfortable with the status quo.

What bugs me is that barely anyone outside of ROKC talks about the research supporting Prayer Man. As many have said, the photo is just the icing on the cake. The work done by Murphy, Bart, and others in reconstructing Oswald’s alibi holds up even if the man on the steps turns out to be someone else. 

Stan Dane’s 1st to 2nd video series I thought was a great summary of the evidence, and I think any push for more “mainstream” acceptance might benefit from that kind of presentation, but trimmed down even more - like a snappy, stylish, digestible video or something - like “Did Lee Harvey Oswald have an alibi? New research suggests he did” - or something, then slide in the photo like “NBC is in possession of a film that may hold the key, but won’t let anyone view it”, etc. Then maybe emphasize that the evidence for Oswald on the first floor holds no matter what, like a quick comparison to the (lack of) evidence putting Oswald on the sixth.

I was listening to an interview with Larry Schnapf and he really emphasized the importance of trimming down complex evidence into snappy talking points understandable and memorable to the average juror. The same concept might be helpful in getting PM and the idea of Oswald having an alibi more attention. I’m sure marketing deep JFK research wouldn’t be particularly easy, but it could be worth it to build momentum for the 60th. Just an idea.

Most people on other forums are not much interested in solving the case. For them assassination research is just a hobby. Anything that puts an end to their hobby is rejected.

Stan's book is mentioned in this article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigonish_(poem)

Congrats Stan!!!
Popular culture it is

Thanks Vinny and Ed. I see the book now has 38 reviews, mostly positive.

I was thinking earlier, how in the heck did I do that? Then I realized all the help and support I had at the time, seven years ago now. I lead the charge but it was a collaborative effort. Without that, nothing. This is really the core work of Sean Murphy and Greg Parker. And Terry Martin was so huge. I got my name on it but this is a ROKC book.

Yes, Lee Oswald was down on front. The facts are undeniable. And just like Prayer Man, the facts won't go away. It's just a matter of time before this is acknowledged by the majority.