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Dallas Transit Transfer

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Ed.Ledoux
Ed.Ledoux
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Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Empty Dallas Transit Transfer

Sun 14 Aug 2016, 6:13 pm
First topic message reminder :

Anyone having trouble going through this thread can watch the old original one here at Bart's site:
http://www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/rokc%20forum/www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13122617-dallas-transit-transfers-.html 

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104



























































Greg, Lee, All, good news.

I submit to you one complete book of Dallas Transit Company Shoppers Transfers!

Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Img03410

 

As Lee Farley said "The bus transfer is the most curious item involved in this whole affair.
If he wasn’t on the bus then how did he get it? Why did it take the DPD two hours to find it?
How did they find out it was McWatters who punched it?"

 

First the transfers I have are issued for Sunday June 1959

 

Manufactured by the Southwest Globe Ticket Co. Dallas - Would become Globe

 

They are for the same route, Marsalis Bus 1213 would use these.

 

The book starts with transfer 019651 on top and run down to 019700.

 

Fifty tickets in a booklet.

 

Signature is of Vice Pres. would switch to Pres. in '63

 

I can do some tests with the transfers but they are cheap thin paper and would fold
and wrinkle instantly in a pocket and would just end up looking like this:


Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Wrinkl11

 

 

 

Size of these transfers are rather small flimsy thin paper, I had expected a ticket like
an airline ticket.

 

The size is 7 1/2" x 2" for the booklet.

 

A ticket torn like 004459 is 4 1/2" long slightly shorter than the average shirt pocket of
4 3/4 - 5".

 

Ink pen for size comparison:

Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Img03511

 

 

Note size of original 004459 next to a PO box key.

Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Bustra12

 

Every Transfer has instructions printed on the back.

Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Img03711

 

 

 

Which state "How to get shoppers free return trip ticket, upon boarding any inbound
transit vehicle between 10:00am and 2:00pm ask the operator for a shoppers transfer;
purchase $1 or more of merchandise in any one of the participating stores below;
pesent your salesslip and this transfer to the transfer desk in THAT STORE,
and receive your FREE RETUR RIDE TRANSIT TICKET, which must be used
before 4:01 or after 7:00pm

 

(see list of stores on picture) Watch your daily newspaper ads for names of
participating stores.

 

 

The back of the book of transfers, note booklets are numbered.

Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Img03611

 

 

 

(Note:inside rear cover is blank) Question is what booklet number was LHO's
transfer from?

 

Was the receipt from the inside back cover of the booklet?

Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Receip11

 

 

 

 

Here is the real question: Who wants to contact the archives and see if they
have transfer 004451 and the receipt. IF THEY DO then we must get a copy
of both sides of each item. If my theory is correct the receipt was written on
the blank back cover and the back of 004451 has instructions on it. I know
the archives has 004459, I called and had them check, but I did not ask for
a copy of the back! [Rolling Eyes] drats!

Usually with documents and evidence they photograph and copy each side,
just look at other evidence. WHAT is on the back/reverse of 004459?



 

 

 

Upon trying to see if its doable to tear transfers from the bottom of a book....
You would need to flip the book upside down to be able to tear from the bottom
of the book. Then you can not see where you are tearing. I know your saying well
you just peel back the transfer till what you want is showing, ie the 1 and 0,
then you fold and tear it. It just doesn't work, takes both hands, is inconvient
and pointless. You would open the booklet, place a guide(straight edge, finger,
what have you) across the 1 and 0 and tear. Simple and easy. Doing it backwards
is not. Only a small staple holds the booklet together, and each transfer is perforated.

What did the front office think about the backwards method? I guess it really doesn't
matter as to which exact transfer was given when but sure seems easier business
wise if its done in numerical sequence....but I digress.

 

"Concerning the transfer, I will leave you with this. We do know that the DPD
confiscated the book of transfers from Cecil McWatters. Whether it was definitely
the same book that Oswald's transfer was allegedly issued from is anyone’s guess
because the actual book was never photographed. We do know "a" book was taken
because a receipt was given for it. The receipt has the following written on the back
“Receipt for the book of transfers from which transfer was issued to Oswald the
accused assin of Pres, John F. Kennedy.” What is tantalising about this receipt is
what it was written on. What is even more tantalising is the number of the thing
it was written on. Receipt 004451. I’ll leave it up to everyone’s imagination to make
their own sense out of what this could potentially mean
" ~Lee Farley
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17269

 

January 30, 2015 at 4:23 PM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

The photo copy of 004451 and the receipt, aka Exhibit No 9, look like they were
laid side by side and photocopied at the same time!

If this is the case, and I suspect I am correct, then the receipt is on the rear inside
cover and the reverse would show the booklet number that these transfers came from.
And the reverse of 004451 or 004459 would have the shoppers transfer instructions on
them.

Its a good day tater!


January 30, 2015 at 5:06 PM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2048

Ed, you sly dog. Great detective work.



Can we get a volunteer to make the phone call? If this pans out as expected...
it's not just a good day. It's a bloody little ripper. 

January 30, 2015 at 6:21 PM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Thanks Greg,

I've looked at it ten ways to sunday and the receipt and 004451 appear to have
mirrored tear outs.
Or near mirrored tear outs.
Need best copy of No 9 from archives at least to make final that they are same
item or two items side by side.
If they are exactly mirrored tear out around the staple area then 'they'
may be one item.
IOW it could very well be the receipt was written on the back of 004451.
it does look as if they match..
So were they torn out exactly the same? I doubt it. But if 004451 was next to
rear cover (the receipt), or on the bottom and they both were torn out they
would look like what we see in exhibit No 9.  see my overlay

Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Transf11
Both overlaid to show match for tear out.
Could it still be two items? Anything is possible in this case.
Match also as said before may mean it is Transfer 004451 reverse side and that means
transfers were NOT printed with instructions on the back of the transfers in 1963.
I find
that hard to believe! It would be like a valet ticket without a disclaimer!!
Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Laugh

Looks like two items could not have been torn from a booklet in a similar fashion:
The rear cover and, the top transfer/first transfer (or a simply a transfer sequentially
numbered 8 transfers before  004459) as there would be 9 transfers worth of stub
between the rear cover and 004451 when they were torn this would interfere with
such a similar tear out shape. Of course 004459 would not be the last transfer in
any booklet 004460 could be, unless the booklet was used backwards.
This holds true even should Globe switched to booklets of ten transfers in '63
(not that I think they did)
This would hold true if Mcwatters only took ten transfers with him from a full booklet
(not that I think this happened or is at all likely).
So did Globe stop printing the instructions on the back of transfers?
Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Dry

Exhibit No 9 holds much to see!

Where exactly is the original transfer 004451, at the archives .... ?
Oh so we don't get duped we need archivist to have a mirror held so you can get
image of both front and back at same time. That way nothing can impune that evidence.
--
 
“Is everything a conspiracy? No. Only the important stuff.” Jeff Wells, Rigorous Intuition
 
PM is THE litmus test of intellectual integrity for researching this case.
Those who fall back on the fuxxy picture defense are not of a caliber to understand
the ins-and-outs of this case. ~ Terry Martin
 


January 30, 2015 at 7:40 PM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

We need front/rear image of each item, especially of "Oswald's transfer" 004459,
we do need to see the reverse side!!!
Most important as this will show if printed instructions exists on backs of 1963
transfers and answer questions raised.
004451 we need to see both sides in a mirror.
Receipt, same as above.

January 30, 2015 at 7:51 PM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Although the transfer supposedly found on LHO was small 4 1/2 x 2" of thin paper
it seems unlikely to be missed in a search of the shirt / pocket.
Possible, if the search of the shirt was conducted by Mr Magoo wearing winter mittens...

More likely is LHO was never on a bus, never had a transfer, never needed a transfer,
but one was supplied for him.



January 30, 2015 at 8:09 PM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2048

Sitting here nodding all the way through I as I read it.



January 30, 2015 at 8:17 PM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Thanks Greg!
Interesting we have never seen the back of the 'transfer' 004459.
I'm so damn interested to see what is on the reverse! Does anyone know if its
been seen? EVER? No one ever has asked for the back? It must be in an image
database somewhere
Most all archived documents are copied front and rear, even when there is nothing
on the reverse.
They should have this ready to go for us. Hehehe
Again I want to see it in a mirror, so we don't get fooled again, to quote a
great rock song.


January 30, 2015 at 8:30 PM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Greg
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bump (we need a volunteer to phone the achives)

January 31, 2015 at 8:34 AM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pdf/WH16_CE_381.pdf

The Back of 381a or a photocopy of 004459




January 31, 2015 at 5:36 PM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Bustra13



January 31, 2015 at 6:14 PM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Sans reverse instructions on 004459, one can safely say 004451 is "the receipt"
and Globe did stop printing Shopper Transfers instructions on the reverse side.

Next is testing. I can complete a detailed experiment where I will match LHO's
movements and actions alledged and see how well a shirt pocket protects a
flimsy transfer from crinkles, wrinkles, folds, creases and dog ears.


January 31, 2015 at 6:36 PM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2048

Ed Ledoux at January 31, 2015 at 6:36 PM


















Sans reverse instructions on 004459, one can safely say 004451 is "the receipt"
and Globe did stop printing Shopper Transfers instructions on the reverse side.

Next is testing. I can complete a detailed experiment where I will match LHO's
movements and actions alledged and see how well a shirt pocket protects
a flimsy transfer from crinkles, wrinkles, folds, creases and dog ears.

Ed, 



they may have stopped printing on the back cos most using it would be elderly
and I'd assume an occasional complaint would be made about the print being
too small to read. My guess is that between 1959 and '63 they posted the
instructions inside the bus in largish print.



There are a couple of issues for... first obviously arises if 51 and 59 came
from same book...



The other issue seems to be that all transfer tickers were printed as
"shopper's transfer" but could only be used as a shoppers transfer with
McWatters punch mark. Without the punch-mark, it was just your ordinary
run-of-the-mill transfer -  but with it, it is now a SHOPPER'S TRANSFER.



Was going to copy and paste McWatters' testimony on this, but it is truly excruciating.
But the sense I get is that  Mcwatters himself all but rules ticket 59 out as being given
to Oswald - because as above - the punch mark transforms it into a shopper's transfer.
McWatters' does say you have to specifically ask for a shoppers transfer
(presumably otherwise you just get it without the punch hole).  Once it has that
punch hole, it is useless unless you go spend a buck. Oswald just wanted to get home
- not go shopping. And McWatters actually tells them it is in the majority of cases
only old ladies who ask for them.



McWatters had absolutely no reason to punch that ticket. If Oswald was on that bus,
all he needed was the ticket. With that punch hole - he COULD NOT JUST
GO AND HOP ANOTHER BUS.



At least, that is what I get from it. The punch hole 



Screw it.



I'll post the testimony afterall.. see what you guys can make of it...Smile 




Mr. McWATTERS - I really don't know because I didn't, see, I didn't know
anything--I didn't put out any--most of the transfers that you put out at this
time or that time of day are for elderly women which get the shopper's transfers,
in other words.
It has got a line there, and it entitles them to a free ride back
to where they came from in other words, and that time of the morning, because
when I get downtown, in other words, you can catch a bus at Elm Street going
to any place that I would go without having a transfer, in other words.
-----------------------------------
Mr. BALL - Mr. McWatters, on this transfer is the name of Shopper's Transfer.
Does that have any significance?
Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; that is what I was telling him. In other words, if
they want a Shoppers; well I put my punch mark in that Shoppers there, which
they cannot use it for a transfer, in other words, any more than other than--all
the stores, most of them in downtown Dallas, if you buy as much as a dollar's
worth between the period of ten and four in the afternoon they give you a little
white slip which entitled you to ride what is called the Shopper's Pass. It rides
you back, but in other words you have to, a passenger has to, ask for it in
other words.

When they say a Shopper, you take a punch and punch your punch mark where
it says Shoppers, but they are not supposed to use the transfer then to transfer
to another bus.
They are supposed, in other words, where it is punched in the
store, get it exchanged for their return fare.
Mr. BALL - In other words, all your transfers have on them printed the word
"Shopper's Transfer"?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; they do.
Mr. BALL - And in order to make it a Shopper's Transfer so that the transfer
can be exchanged for a merchandise coupon to ride home, it has to have your
punch in the Shopper's Transfer area, is that right?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is correct, yes, sir.

If I am right, that punch hole has just proved Oswald was not on the bus.

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Terry Martin
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Posts: 1143

Another marvelous example of using the WC itself to destroy the opinions of the WC.



It always has been its own worst critic.

January 31, 2015 at 9:43 PM[size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12][size=14][size=12]Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
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Greg
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Posts: 2048

Terry Martin at January 31, 2015 at 9:43 PM


















Another marvelous example of using the WC itself to destroy the opinions
of the WC.

It always has been its own worst critic.

Terry, I can't believe I never saw it before, but sometimes it takes a thread
as excellent as this to make you focus.



Here is the killer blow from McWatters again and given the Fez treatment,
for no other reason than I'm feeling a bit fezzy,
but I'll get over it - if they want a Shoppers;
well I put my punch mark in that Shoppers there,
which
they cannot use it for a transfer
, in other words, any
more than other than--all the stores






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Last edited by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 2:58 pm; edited 2 times in total

barto
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Sun 04 Jul 2021, 8:11 pm
Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 3850af10

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Mon 05 Jul 2021, 4:42 am
Thanks for that Bart.

They never called Odell...
The Dallas Police didn't call back Porter either.
Bledsoe's information was so important they did not go see Mary.
Porter has to drive her downtown.
Not the Marsalis bus but plenty of false witnesses.
Nope not the Bishop bus, but a false sighting.

Yet not a freaking peep from ANYONE on the Beckley bus.......
A bus Lee supposedly rides every week day to work except Mondays and Paine family birthdays.

No Beckley bus driver, no Beckley passengers, no transfers from Lee's supposed means of transportation to/from work to his supposedly tiny room with no key for the lock.
Yes its all so clear.


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Sat 24 Jul 2021, 2:13 pm
Bart is on FIRE!!
Thanks a million.
HERE IS REDLICH TAKE ON THE BALL N BELIN BUS BS.

Dallas Transit Transfer - Page 7 Scree406

March 18 1964 Norman studied the bus routes 488a
he finds the supplied route by Ball n Belin is less than logical and they should restudy these routes ... no mention directly of BECKLEY BUS but memo might have well have been labeled:
"Beckley Bus Where Are You"
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Sat 24 Jul 2021, 5:03 pm
Yes great doc from Malcolm Blunt’s archive.
Page two would make things even better....!

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Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:50 pm
Stop teasing me!
😛
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Sun 25 Jul 2021, 2:27 pm
When they made up the Oswald on a bus story maybe they realized that had he walked to one of those closer transfer points, he would have had to stand there and wait for the bus in the middle of a boiling cauldron of cops, newsmen and picture takers. There he stands, yet no one sees him and he doesn't show up in a picture where he most certainly should have? Not good. Walk him up a few blocks, away from the action, and let him board a bus there. No chance of proving he wasn't even there at all.

That or they simply had info that nobody got on at those stops at that time, so they walked him to where there was an actual stop.

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Sat 26 Feb 2022, 12:33 pm
The Beckley bus driver was avoided in either conformation or denial of a newspaper wrapped rifle (or package) by Lee riding his bus Wednesday morning. Jack Cody was left hangin' by FBI and Warren Commissioners.

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Sun 27 Feb 2022, 7:15 am
I'll say it again, this is one of the best threads on the forum. Outstanding demolition of the Bus BS.

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Ed.Ledoux
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Mon 28 Feb 2022, 8:44 am
Thanks Mick youre no slouch yourself
Ya kicked a few legs from under this case.

What amazes me is anyone still citing McWatters bus as Lee's escape plan or using it to get a bus pass and bullets into evidence.
That rot would be tossed out and the two cops Boyd n Simms look dirty for trying to pin it on Lee.
McWatters said it was not Lee and gives the name of the boy. Milton Jones the laughing boy says its not Lee its him.
So Lee was never on that bus yet police magically have a transfer from it (or a booklet of transfers)
Nada fingerprints nor other physical evidence the transfer or bullets were Lee's.
It all points to Dallas Police creating fake evidence.
Why would they need to doctor the evidence if they have Lee on a bus with McWatters and Bledsoe as witnesses... well.... ummm okay as a witness she sucked and he proved it wasnt Lee and not downtown or either.

This is proven planting or faking evidence Mick.
Plain and simple.
They went a bit overboard in stitching Lee up quickly... and it shows!
If anyone asks for proof the DPD were bad cops this is a perfect example.
Or the warren commission suborning perjury this is it.
Cheers!
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Mon 28 Feb 2022, 8:56 am
Good on ya Ed,

It all points to Dallas Police creating fake evidence.



Yep, sure does and this thread proves that beyond a reasonable doubt. Case reopened?


If this shows Lee Oswald was set up and framed by the DPD as they'd done many times before and after his murder then surely that warrants a new investigation - cold case or not - surely. Murder in Texas has no statue of limitations - right? 
That's why this thread is vitally important work  because it clearly demonstrates and proves that the DPD faked the evidence and used it to frame Oswald.

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Tue 01 Mar 2022, 3:26 am
So many of the Dallas cops appear to have been not much more than criminals with uniforms and badges.

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