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steely dan
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 12:23 pm
Excellent reply to Stancak , Ed. Seems he has a bee in his bonnet regarding ROKC since Barto announced he had him on ignore. Now he's just a mild mannered Doyle.

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Ed. Ledoux
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 3:46 pm
Thx Steely.
Speaking of Doyle, I hear he has jacked his jaw about getting the Weigman and Darnell films and was roundly schooled as to the requirements for obtaining the rights to the films.
The Sanibel Basement Dweller's Association doesn't rank.
Cheers,
Ed
barto
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 6:15 pm
steely dan wrote:Excellent reply to Stancak , Ed. Seems he has a bee in his bonnet regarding ROKC since Barto announced he had him on ignore. Now he's just a mild mannered Doyle.

I still have him on ignore, and Roe has joined him.
Too bad there is no FB style 'block' function.

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Ed. Ledoux
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 8:59 am
They seem to want Different answers than I have provided.
In turn they would attack these alternatives.
They cant muster anything to void the premise so are seeking ulterior ones they may be able to hack apart.
I'm sticking to the original work and thesis.
Screw them, let them come up with more excuses like bad police work... yeah like these detectives superiors are cool with consistent poor quality work...
Nah, its all okay as far as I can tell, no reprimands.
Thus for the excuse squad to say it was just sloppy policemanship is down right ignorant.

Cops knew exactly what they were or were not doing.

Cheers,
Ed

	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Earlen11


	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Earlen10
Jake Sykes
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 1:10 pm
Stancek's appeals to "higher authorities" presented as evidence to discredit the evidence:
"Ed:
several outstanding researchers interviewed people who witnessed Oswald's presence at 1026 North Beckley. Other researchers did not speak to those people but they are not gullible and information they communicate in their books can be trusted. None had questioned North Beckley as Lee Oswald's rooming house.
Please find here quotes from outstanding books and well-respected authors. None of them had questioned 1026 North Beckley as Lee Oswald's address. Maybe these authors, if not Steve or me, can awake a bit of doubt in your mind about whether pursuing your extraordinary theory is sound and whether it does any good to the JFKA case."

But where's the evidence?

The 2nd floor encounter, the bus ride, the taxi ride, the Beckley Rooming house; all narratives constructed by operators at work outside of a box; the box containing and covering up the assassination. Very smart, very experienced, and very much predisposed to thinking outside of that box, a parallel world was successfully rendered and all inside obligingly (intentionally or not, as the case may be) operated within the carefully constructed artifice. Even when finding and researching flaws in the craftsmanship over here, they remained inside its confines over there. Most of us are predisposed to operating in that way. We don't trust ourselves to doubt so much, all at the same time. It makes most of us feel insecure. And so it went for abut 50 years or so. Then, ever so slowly and by separate steps, phases, and individuals along the way, paths leading outside the box have been discovered. Some people remain inside, some halfway out, others outside completely. All speaking at once and all speaking their own truths.

And what does the evidence tell us?

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Vinny
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 2:15 pm
So many of the established claims have turned out to be false. Even the first gen researchers did not bother to examine these claims like Lunchroom encounter or Beckley. Kudos to ROKC for dismantling them.
Ed. Ledoux
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 4:51 pm
..."extraordinary theory"...?
Or simpler.
An ordinary theory hinted at and hidden in plain sight all along.
The Emperor had disrobed long ago.
These gents though when told the emperor is naked turn on those seeing no clothes.
They excuse it as being some flesh colored garb or just bad lighting upon his robes. Perfectly acceptable excuses, if it were the case.
Alas it's never the nudists fault, but those whom point out the nudity on display.
Welcome to Roe'm.
Cheers, Ed
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 2:10 am
	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Car_1010

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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 2:10 am
	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Car_2010

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Ed. Ledoux
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 3:59 am
Thanks Bart.
Earlene and the honking.
It makes sense for a honk drawing her to look out the window. Thus seeing Mr. Lee waiting for a inbound bus, this after his grabbing a jacket to go downtown to see the excitement.
Recall Herbert tried to get vehicle insurance but had not purchased an auto.... maybe Herbert is responsible for auto dealership sightings.

Car 207 or a cab, doesn't matter much if unrelated to Oswald.
The convulsions the authorities go through to avoid having any car near Beckley is telling.
Cheers, Ed
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Steve Thomas
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 1:52 am
Isn't it odd that neither one of the Johnsons, nor Earlene Roberts were taken down to the police station to give an affidavit?

Something's wrong here.

Steve Thomas
Ed. Ledoux
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 6:40 am
Great point Steve,

Criminal ID by television, on a crappy tv.
That's gotta be a historical first....

And exactly like the bus transfer booklet, the guest register is overlooked.... disappeared from history


Plus that damn that Beckley bus driver must have been too difficult to get a statement from, same garage as McWatters and Scoggins and Whaley too... Oh wait the cops waited and grabbed Cecil at the stop out front of the police station.


But that darn Beckley driver was much more onerous to find on his scheduled routes...he supposedly only drove Oswald DAILY to work but nah the Ommissions crew avoided this bus and passengers like they didn't exist.

Something is very very wrong here.
Ed
greg parker
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 2:27 pm
andrej at the ed forum wrote:Ed:

several outstanding researchers interviewed people who witnessed Oswald's presence at 1026 North Beckley. Other researchers did not speak to those people but they are not gullible and information they communicate in their books can be trusted. None had questioned North Beckley as Lee Oswald's rooming house.
You have made a partial quote from a single interview - not several as you claim. None contested the police claim that Oswald lived at that address, thus none had any reason to question anyone from a skeptical point of view.

andrej wrote:Please find here quotes from outstanding books and well-respected authors. None of them had questioned 1026 North Beckley as Lee Oswald's address. Maybe these authors, if not Steve or me, can awake a bit of doubt in your mind about whether pursuing your extraordinary theory is sound and whether it does any good to the JFKA case. 
Exactly. None questioned it. The DPD word was good enough. Thus they approached "witnesses" without any skepticism about Oswald living there. 

andrej wrote:Dane, Stan: Prayer Man: Out of the Shadows and into the Light, Martian Publishing, 2015, Location 3912 in Kindle Edition.

“Sean replied Prayer Man's shirt appears to be buttoned up fairly high. Fritz's transcription of Bookhout's interrogation notes indicates that Oswald told Fritz he changed shirts back at his rooming house—the shirt he was wearing when arrested was not the shirt he went to work in—that was a "reddish" shirt. A "maroon and grey cotton" shirt was found among Oswald's effects at N. Beckley Ave.  "What I wouldn't give to see a photo of it," said Sean.”

[A.S.: Sean, the photograph you wished to view was acquired from NARA in June 2019 and posted on EF a few times.]
Neither Sean nor Stan interviewed anyone about anything connected to that address. It is sheer lunacy to add this to your list. The book was very narrowly focused on the people standing on the steps of the TSDB at around 12:30 pm Friday, Nov 22, 1963. Moreover, what it states is true. Bookhout's interrogation notes do indeed indicate that Oswald told Fritz he changed shirts back at his rooming house. That doesn't make it true. But even if true, the rooming house address is not specified.  In other words it is meaningless in terms of evidence of where Oswald lived.

andrej wrote:Garrison, Jim. On the Trail of the Assassins: One Man's Quest to Solve the Murder of President Kennedy . Paperless Publishing LLC. Kindle Edition. Location 3255.

“Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig, who was at the Book Depository at the time, confirmed this. When he heard the report of Tippit’s death on the radio, he looked at his watch; it was 1:06 p.m. And yet Oswald, it was generally acknowledged, had returned to his rooming house at around 1:00 p.m.”
"And yet Oswald, it was generally acknowledged, had returned to his rooming house at around 1:00 p.m.” You have to be joking. Is this the same standard of evidence you use in your scientific studies, Andrej? I sure hope not. "GENERALLY ACKNOWLEDGED" = "IT IS RUMORED" = "I HEARD IT ON THE GRAPEVINE" = "JOE SAID THAT JOHN SAID..." = "WE PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER AND WE ALL AGREE..."

andrej wrote:Griggs, Ian. No Case To Answer . JFKLancer Productions & Publications, Inc.. Kindle Edition., location 3446

“Oswald’s rooming house—1026 north Beckley aVenue.  Before closing, perhaps we should cast a glance in the direction of 1026 North Beckley Avenue, Oak Cliff—the rooming house at which Oswald was renting a room at this time. Is there any evidence to suggest that his room there required curtain rods? No. Is it even feasible that a tenant would be required to supply the curtain rods for his rented room? Again, no. The co-owners of the property (Mr and Mrs Arthur Johnson) and the housekeeper (Mrs Earlene Roberts) testified before the Warren Commission. A study of the testimony given by Mr and Mrs Johnson clearly tells us all we need to know regarding the question of curtain rods in Oswald’s room. Mrs Johnson was 61 years old at the time of the assassination and she had owned and occupied 1026 North Beckley for 21 years. Her testimony, taken by Assistant Counsel Joseph A. Ball in Dallas on the afternoon of 1st April 1964, revealed that the house had 22 rooms and that when Oswald began his tenancy there on 14th October 1963, there were “about 10 or 12” tenants in residence. (83)”
Griggs makes it clear he accepts without question that Oswald lived at that address. Someone's uninformed acceptance of a story doesn't make it true. 

andrej wrote:Joesten, Joachim. Oswald: Assassin or Fall Guy? (p. 73). Iconoclassic Books. Kindle Edition. (Spoke to Gladys Johnson)

“As a matter of fact, any independent and unprejudiced observer who, like this writer, has seen with his own eyes that tiny room at Mrs. Gladys Johnson's boarding house at 1026 North Beckley Avenue in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas must have been struck immediately by one peculiarity: the entire "wall" facing you as you enter this cubicle from the Johnsons' large living room consists of four windows. With a ground-floor window front running the full length of his room and opening out on the neighbor's driveway, Oswald was indeed living, as his landlady herself said in the course of a 45-minute talk I had with her, in "the most public room" of the house. A goldfish has more privacy in his glass bowl than Oswald had behind this unbroken window front, especially at night, when his room was glaringly lighted by an unshaded bulb dangling from the ceiling.”
Finally a partial quote from a witness placing "Oswald" in that room.  Yet at the same time, Joachim practically screams the evidence that Oswald could NOT have lived in that room. How could Oswald live in that TINY room with NO privacy and yet no pistol, no holster, no commie literature is ever seen?  No one is accusing Johnson of lying. She does remember a "Mr. Lee". It just wasn't Oswald. And she does remember some literature. Westerns. They belonged, not to Oswald who didn't live there. Not to Mr Lee who DID live there. They belonged to Floyd Degraffenreid. People came and went from the rooming house like it had a revolving door. It is more than possible that both Herbert Lee and Floyd Degraffenreid stayed in that tine room at different times and the memories of those two became confused - ending up becoming part of the "Oswald Slept Here" legend. The memories of others confirm that there was indeed confusion between Herbert and Floyd. 

andrej wrote:Lane, Mark. Rush to Judgment . The Lane Group, LLC. Kindle Edition. Location 3108

“After getting off the bus, supposedly at 12:44 p.m.,[1634] Oswald is said by the Commission to have walked several blocks to the Greyhound Bus Station at Lamar and Jackson Streets,[1635] to have entered a taxicab driven by William Whaley[1636] and to have asked Whaley to drive him to the 500 block of North Beckley Avenue,[1637] which was four-tenths of a mile beyond his rooming house at 1026 North Beckley.[1638]”
Here is a clue for you, Andrej. Lane uses the word "supposedly" to indicate doubt about Oswald being on that bus. If Oswald is not on the bus, he is also not in Whaley's cab and not being dropped off almost half a mile past the rooming house. 

andrej wrote:McBride, Joseph. Into the Nightmare: My Search for the Killers of President John F. Kennedy and Officer J. D. Tippit (pp. 431-432). Hightower Press. Kindle Edition. Page 431.

“Gary Murr wrote in his pioneering 1971 monograph, The Murder of Dallas Police Officer J. D. Tippit, “It is true that Oswald was probably heading to his rooming house in Oak Cliff at 12:45 p.m. However, it is inconceivable that the dispatcher or Tippit, or Nelson knew of this. Oswald’s Oak Cliff address was unknown to his wife Marina or his employers at the Book Depository, let alone the Dallas police.” But was it inconceivable? The address of Oswald’s rooming house, 1026 North Beckley Avenue, where he had been living since October, supposedly was not discovered by the police until after his arrest, which was reported at 1:51. But perhaps, with all we have learned in the intervening years since Murr wrote about the Tippit killing, it is not so inconceivable that the Dallas police knew of Oswald’s Oak Cliff address at the time Oswald was headed there from downtown Dallas. Murr’s account shrewdly acknowledges the likelihood that Oswald was en route to Oak Cliff around the time of the radio order allegedly issued to those two officers, allowing the reader to infer (despite Murr’s denial) that there was a direct and suspicious cause… “
McBride believes in Badge Man. McBride believes Tippit was Badge Man. McBride used Tippit's brain-addled father as his chief reason for this seriously stupid claim. That he would drag the old and outdated work of an otherwise serious researcher into his tarpit of a theory speaks volumes.  And again, neither Murr nor McBride questioned the premise of Oswald living there.

andrej wrote:Meagher, Sylvia. Accessories After the Fact: The Warren Commission, the Authorities & the Report on the JFK Assassination (p. 229). Skyhorse Publishing. Kindle Edition.

“According to the Report (WR 182) examination of the register at the rooming house revealed that the signature “O. H. Lee” was in Oswald’s handwriting. It seems entirely credible that he registered under that assumed name. He had stayed at another rooming house for a week, and the landlady, Mary Bledsoe, had asked him to leave. Oswald felt, whether or not justifiably, that his history of residence in the Soviet Union and his unpopular political views had provoked his dismissal from jobs and perhaps his eviction from the rooming house. (1H 46) Thus it is understandable if he registered at the Beckley Street establishment under an assumed name; not even the Commission has seen this as criminal in motivation.”

Meagher accepted he lived there on the understanding that the commission had found that the OH Lee signature in the register was in Oswald's writing She therefore made a good old-fashioned college try of looking for a logical reason why he would do that.

Unfortunately, this was a rare mistake on Meagher's part. No one established that any register entry was in Oswald's handwriting. What her own citation actually says is "An examination of the rooming house register revealed that Oswald actually signed the name OH Lee." This examination was the one done by police when they arrived. It was not a handwriting study. Nor was it signed as "O H Lee". It was signed "H Lee" next to room O. Neither the FBI nor WC ever got to see that register. Now you know why. 

andrej wrote:Marrs, Jim. Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy (pp. 551-552). Basic Books. Kindle Edition.

“Oswald left the Depository and made his way to his South Oak Cliff rooming house, where he retrieved his pistol to defend himself. His landlady said that within minutes of his arrival, he hurried from his room after a Dallas police car stopped out front and beeped its horn twice.”
Marrs is being a good boy and merely repeating the official government story.

andrej wrote:Summers, Anthony. Not In Your Lifetime: The Assassination of JFK . Headline. Kindle Edition. Loc 4482.

“Superficially, the last forty days of Oswald’s life were unremarkable. After five days renting from a first landlady with whom he did not get on, he took a room at 1026 North Beckley—registering under the name “O. H. Lee.” To the owners of the house and to fellow tenants, Oswald seemed quiet, lonely. He spent most evenings reading or watching television, rarely made conversation. He visited Marina almost every weekend.”
Same pattern. Summers is not questioning the official line. He accepts it without question.

And that's the key. When the story is actually questioned, and the totality of the evidence studied - not just the mixed up memories of the household - it quickly falls apart.

A true academic would be able to grasp this.


Last edited by greg parker on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Ed. Ledoux
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 4:25 pm
I asked Andrej to view the comments here.
No pressure to join, just examine his own psyches defects.
I am working full days right now and hardly the time to itemize all Andrej's various claims or appeals to authority etc.
I have time to point out his faults but Greg has taken the time to set him straight.
Good show.

May we always be faithful to the truth.

From The Halls of Oakcliff to The Beckley Bunch's Lee.
We fight deniers in battles
On the air, internet, and tv;
First to advance the cause with evidence
And to keep our postings clean;
We are proud to claim the title
Of R O K and C
Our facts dont turn in every breeze
From dawn to setting sun;
We have sought truths in every clime and place
Where we could make our case;
In the snow of far-off Northern Alaskan lands
And in sunny tropic Australian scenes,
You will find us always on the job
Were the R O K and C
Here's health to you and to our friends
Which we are proud to serve;
In many a forum we've fought for decorum
And never lost our nerve.
If the Roe's and the bums
Ever look on Heaven's scenes,
They will find the truths are guarded
By the ones at R O K and C

Cheers!
Ed
Ed. Ledoux
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 5:42 pm
If the deniers want they should go to Beckley and look at the doors immediately to their right upon entering 1026.
They are are the same doors, same locks, etc as the tiny rooms. 
Or simply ask Pat to go to where she has the original tiny rooms door with lock are kept and examine them. 
Don't forget to "key" in on the hole.
Have a swell visit and get a detailed explanation from Pat as to how they rented a room out without a lock on it and yet was filled with pistol, holster, commie literature, dishonorable discharge from marine corp paperwork, Russian or Soviet works, and yet not a bit of it ever seen by the owners or maid. Wow that is beyond odd for these snoops.
The doors had a key hole and renters get keys. 
Is Roe questioning standard practice for renting a room in a rooming house?
Why do the stories by Earlene and Gladys include KEYs then? Opening up rooms with keys... Roe/ Andrej have a tough sell here.

Cheers, Ed
greg parker
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 7:10 pm
Ed. Ledoux wrote:I asked Andrej to view the comments here.
No pressure to join, just examine his own psyches defects.
I am working full days right now and hardly the time to itemize all Andrej's various claims or appeals to authority etc.
I have time to point out his faults but Greg has taken the time to set him straight.
Good show.

May we always be faithful to the truth.

From The Halls of Oakcliff to The Beckley Bunch's Lee.
We fight deniers in battles
On the air, internet, and tv;
First to advance the cause with evidence
And to keep our postings clean;
We are proud to claim the title
Of R O K and C
Our facts dont turn in every breeze
From dawn to setting sun;
We have sought truths in every clime and place
Where we could make our case;
In the snow of far-off Northern Alaskan lands
And in sunny tropic Australian scenes,
You will find us always on the job
Were the R O K and C
Here's health to you and to our friends
Which we are proud to serve;
In many a forum we've fought for decorum
And never lost our nerve.
If the Roe's and the bums
Ever look on Heaven's scenes,
They will find the truths are guarded
By the ones at R O K and C

Cheers!
Ed
And there is our anthem...

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

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greg parker
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 11:27 pm
Larry Hancock at the ed forum wrote:I've got no problems with outing "disinformation and gaping holes",  I think it was about twenty years ago when I started opening presentations with the statement that I had found so much of the crime scene evidence and DPD material unreliable and with so many broken chains of possession that I had to give up on the naive hope that you could get someplace with it.  Being naturally slow it only took me a decade to get to that point.
Larry, did you at any time challenge yourself to to come up with "alternative" meanings for all the unreliable evidence? Did you make any conclusions about what made it "unreliable, e.g. poor police work? 

Larry Hancock wrote:I do have to say that Oswald and a Beckley presence are not throw a ways in regard to many of the Oak Cliff subjects that routinely get discussed here and elsewhere (in the same form as throwing away Oswald in Mexico City) - at least in terms of studying what supposedly happened in Oak Cliff after the assassination on November 22.  That includes topics from Tippett to Olson to the pistol to the mysterious police car, the wallet. 
You are making the mistake of starting with false assumptions. How long did it take for Earlene - an accused story teller and attention-seeker,  to bring in the cop car? There is a simple and SANE explanation for the wallet. It belonged to Scoggins who initially was mistake for a suspect. Read all the relevant testimony and FBI reports. Why do simple, sane explanations get side-stepped by other-wise intelligent people, in favor of completely self-defeating conspiracy constructs? Do you think if it was a throwdown wallet, the wallet Oswald was arrested with would have survived? Wouldn't getting rid of it be a hell of a lot more sensible than transferring the contents from one to the other?

Larry Hancock wrote:The obvious problem is that if you go with the thesis that all evidence is manufactured or planted (apparently after the fact) then you literally have no data at all.  
No one has said all of the evidence, Larry.  You should be better than this cheap LN tactic.

Larry Hancock wrote:So does that mean we throw away Oak Cliff entirely? Or does Oswald just go the Oak Cliff and the Eight Street area because of the Texas School Book Depository and nothing else? Or possibly none of that is relevant at all and he went directly to the Theater.
Interrogation notes have him saying he caught a bus direct to the theatre. Later they have him agreeing that this was not quite true and he agrees with the bus/taxi/rooming house scenario. In short, they have him giving up his Tippit alibi and helping them put the noose around his own neck. On what grounds do you buy that? 


Larry Hancock wrote:Perhaps so if he was never at Becklay at all...but if not where did he pick up the pistol...or did he have it with him at the TSBD..
The gun was not "picked up" anywhere by Oswald. The cops were attempting to plant it on him. It was typical of police throw-downs used to justify police shootings. That is to say, it was a piece of of junk that didn't work. He saved his own life by shouting that he was not resisting. Too many witnesses to go ahead and shoot him and plant the pistol.


Are there alternatives that we can consider.  At least with Oswald's movements inside the TSBD there are alternatives and everyone can make their call on first floor, second floor, sixth floor, front inside, front door outside. 
Why is it anyone's duty to provide an alternative address? That is another LN tactic - if Oswald did not shoot Kennedy then who did? The answer is someone else shot him. The answer here is that he lived somewhere else. "Where" is immaterial to his innocence. That is all we should be concerned with. An innocent Oswald puts the case back in an "open" category. That is a realistic goal. Proving"who did it" is pie in the sky and will just keep dragging this case on and on and on.

Larry Hancock wrote:I'm be more than interested to hear thoughts for alternatives to Oswald at Beckley and in Oak Cliff beyond being in the Texas Theater. No problem here with throwing away things, just looking for alternatives once they get pitched.
And I ask why you require alternatives? That is just a parlor game. 

As it turns out though. Lee had a very recent connection to Oak Cliff.
https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t283-the-washing-machine-conspiracy


Last edited by greg parker on Fri 28 Feb 2020, 7:03 am; edited 1 time in total

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on Fri 28 Feb 2020, 5:38 am
Mick,

Do you or Bart know when Duggar's interview with Gladys Johnson took place?
And, I'm assuming this is Washington Post Reporter, Ronnie Duggar?

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on Fri 28 Feb 2020, 12:47 pm
Found a post by Simkin about Ronnie.

John Simkin  
Posted February 22, 2013

I have a copy of Barbie Zelizer's book and unfortunately it is only a one line reference to two articles written by Dugger: November 22, 1963: The Case is not Closed (11th November 1966) and Batter Up (3rd February 1966). According to Barr McCleellan, the author of, Blood Money and Power: How L.B.J. Killed J.F.K. (2003) Dugger considered that Lyndon B. Johnson wascapable of being involved in the assassination: "Ronnie Dugger concluded Johnson was a man without moral principle or compass, a man capable of murder and assassination. While editor of the Texas Observer, he closely followed the developments in the Warren investigation, and the newsweekly regularly reported on progress. In perhaps the closest he got to the conspiracy was noting recognition between Oswald and Ruby just before the fatal shot." (page 299)"

Cheers, Ed

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on Fri 28 Feb 2020, 12:54 pm
Im going to say 1966-67 was the time when Ronnie would have interviewed Gladys.

	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 20200214

Cheers, Ed
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on Fri 28 Feb 2020, 9:18 pm
Ed. Ledoux wrote:Im going to say 1966-67 was the time when Ronnie would have interviewed Gladys.

	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 20200214

Cheers, Ed

Ed,

Thank you.

Purely as an FYI, these days you can now find full text reprints of the Texas Observer online in their Archives.
Type in Texas Observer in quotes, and the date of November 11, 1966 for example and it will take you here:
https://archives.texasobserver.org/?nstart=33&start=328&stat=1&page=c-search_result&simplesearch=&searchoptionone=&searchoptiontwo=&from=&to=&simplesearch=&searchoptionone=&searchoptiontwo=&from=&to=

Duggar's interview with Mrs. Johnson is not in either the November 11, 1966 or the February 3, 1967 issues.

(But the time frame seems about right),

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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Fri 28 Feb 2020, 11:52 pm
andrej at the ed forum wrote:Please correct me if I misunderstood the new scenario for Lee Oswald, however, this is what I get from Ed's posts: Lee Oswald somehow got to Oak Cliff (route unknown), to the shoe store where he was supposed to meet Marina  and Ruth Paine with their children and buy shoes for June. The randezvous was cancelled because of Kennedy's assassination but he went to that shoe store anyway. As Marina and Ruth and children did not turn up (but the meeting was already postponed so why would Lee expect them to come), he went to Texas Theatre just to spent time there. 
You misunderstood that it is a new scenario. It was a suggested possibility. 

Regarding his route -- this is what Thomas Kelley of the Secret Service said in his interrogation report for the interrogation commencing 10:30 am Nov 23: "In response to questions put by Captain Fritz, Oswald said that immediately after having left the building where he worked, he went by bus to the theater where he was arrested; that when he go on the bus he secured a transfer and thereafter transferred to other buses to get to his destination.

Here is what Will Fritz claimed regarding the same Q & A: "I talked to Oswald about his leaving the building, and he told me he left by bus and rode to a stop near home and walked on to his house. At the time of Oswald's arrest he had a bus transfer in his pocket. He admitted this was given to him by the bus driver when he rode the bus after leaving the building."


Hosty and Bookhout have him saying this on the afternoon of November 22: "Oswald stated he then went home by bus and changed his clothes and went to a move."


Bookhout's solo report for am interrogation of Nov 23 states: "Following his departure from the Texas School Book Depository, he boarded a city bus to his residence and obtained transfer upon departure from the bus. He stated that officers at the time of arresting him took his transfer out of his pocket."

Bookhout was the FBI liaison to the DPD. He spent a lot of time in Fritz's office because of that and they clearly coordinated their reports on Oswald. Which leaves Kelley's as likely the most honest.  

Nowhere did Ed say in this suggested scenario that a meeting with Ruth and Marina was cancelled. Ed was suggesting the women merely failed to arrive. Lee was an avid movie-goer so I'm not sure why his going straight to the theatre would be out of character.

Andrej:
I find this scenario improbable and logically inconsistent 
Here you are simply critiquing your own muddled assumptions and misunderstandings.

andrej wrote:but what is of greater concern is that nowhere in this scenario is there any stop at a place where Lee could change his clothing. Lee Oswald left, at least some people still assume so, 1026 North Beckley about 7.30 AM on Thursday, November 21. He went to work
How did he get to work, Andrej? The WC doesn't tell us. Since he planned on going back to Irving that afternoon, what did he do about a change of clothes and toiletries? There is no mention of this anywhere either.

andrej wrote:and after work, instead of returning to his rooming house, he went to Irving with Buell Wesley Frazier. He then came straight to work on the next day, November 22, without being able to change his clothing. Thus, he had the same work clothes on him the whole Thursday and Friday morning. 
So he kept no clothing at Irving? Which means he went to work every Monday in the clothes he wore Friday and wore the same work clothes all weekend? This is your claim?

andrej wrote:The point is that Lee changed both his pants and his Briarloom shirt before his arrest. 
The point is that those words were put in his mouth by Fritz and the FBI. They needed him being able to pick up the pistol somewhere, and a change of clothes is always a good idea for an assassin on the run. You have Oswald denying his previous Tippit alibi (I went straight to the theatre) and helping the FBI and Fritz put the noose around his own neck by agreeing - "oh yes, silly me! I forgot! I did get off that bus, got a cab and went back to my rooming house. Here, let me make the hangman's knot for you while I'm at it!" 

andrej wrote:That has been discussed in another thread, however, if someone is able to prove that Lee Oswald wore the same dark brown shirt CE150 both on Friday morning and Friday afternoon after his arrest,  he/she can be congratulated for clearing one of the greatest mysteries in JFKA case because, under such scenario, Lee Oswald could not be Prayer Man. The dark CE150 would not fit the shirt seen on Prayer Man in Darnell, only the light-red CE151 shirt would. 

Take away 1026 North Beckley (or some other credible address) as a place where Lee Oswald changed his pants and shirt after he left the Depository and Lee Oswald can be discarded as Prayer Man. 
Your own bus witness, Mary Bledsoe, identified his arrest shirt as the one he wore!

As for that ruling him out as being PM, you base it on your own photo analysis. I think it is about time someone was honest with you, Andrej. I regret tippy-toeing around it in our correspondence a few years back. Your photo analysis ability falls somewhere between that of Brian Doyle and Ralph Cinque. Do you remember your claim that Billy Lovelady's head was a mock-up made up of anatomical parts like hands etc? It was something along those lines anyway. But please correct me if I am miss-remembering

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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 7 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 10:19 am
Ed,

that holster, the holster allegedly attributed to Oswald. Where was that supposedly located in Room 0? In a draw or hanging on the back of the door? Is it in any of the police photographic evidence? Who talked of such an item having been there, Alexander? Alexander was not required at Irving it appears....required almost everywhere else though, you know where evidence was needed to be discovered. Like Beckley!

The holster! Why was this holster not with Lee Oswald? The BYP's has that Lee Oswald figure with a holster. When was that holster first mentioned? Reports? Affidavits?
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on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 2:55 pm
Steve Thomas wrote:Isn't it odd that neither one of the Johnsons, nor Earlene Roberts were taken down to the police station to give an affidavit?

Something's wrong here.

Steve Thomas
Steve, you're right. That's not normal police procedure. As near as I can see Earlene Roberts gave a sworn statement to the SS on the 5th of December. The cops weren't that interested in Earlene, Gladys or Arthur or what they had to say that Friday afternoon.
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on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 2:59 pm
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