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StanDane- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71 
Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Thu 11 Aug 2016, 6:23 pm
First topic message reminder :
This is full rebuild of the hugely popular thread created by Mick Purdy at the Webs forum in February 2015. – Stan
Mick Purdy
I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.
I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.
I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.
I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.
I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.
Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.
The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.
Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.
Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.
From the HSCA interview of Shields
To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.
Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.
In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.
This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.
The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………
An alternative scenario
Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)
What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!
Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.
Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. What follows is some of my conjecture.
Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.
Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."
Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?
I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement.
This is full rebuild of the hugely popular thread created by Mick Purdy at the Webs forum in February 2015. – Stan
Mick Purdy
I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.
I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.
I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.
I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.
I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.
Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.
The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.
Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.
Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.
From the HSCA interview of Shields
SHIELDS: I think Charles Givens hollered out there and asked Frazier where was his rider and he told him: "I dropped him off at the building." Yeah, that was it...Well, I was down on the floor when they hollered out and said and the answer he gave them, I don't know, I think he said: "I dropped him off at the building." Now, whoever it was hollering asked him, I don't know.
DAY: This is the morning of the assassination?
SHIELDS: Mm-hmm.
DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."
SHIELDS: Yes.
DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?
SHIELDS: No I didn’t.
To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.
Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.
In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.
This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.
The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………
An alternative scenario
Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)
What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!
Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.
Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. What follows is some of my conjecture.
Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.
Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."
Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?
I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement.
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 3:09 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy
I've got a question for Wes.
How does War is Hell end?
Bet you don't know!
Mick Purdy
Come on Buell, come clean.
You dropped your little commie mate off at the theatre, said you'd be right in..... just had to park the car.
Probably even asked Lee to get some popcorn.
You never did get to see those opening credits...Hey Buell!
Steely Dan
If this is right Mick, it could explain why Oswald had no camera on him. He left it in Wes's car, maybe in the glovebox.
- StanDane
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Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 3:09 pm
Stan Dane
Ooh, interesting thought steely.
Ooh, interesting thought steely.
- StanDane
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:26 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy
If you are in any doubt about Wes being with Oswald on the steps after the assassination, I urge you to listen and in particular watch Frazier answer the questions relating to what he was doing immediately following the shots........
http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2
@ 12-36
G.M. Did you see Lee Oswald at this time after the assassination?
BWF. Um (long pause) No.
Listen through until : 15-40
If you are not convinced after listening and IMO more importantly watching Wes answer these questions, that he is a liar, then there's not much more I can say or do to convince anyone otherwise.
Smee
Very interesting video clip - BWF gets himself all confused, doesn't he?
Interesting point as to where BWF actually was when he supposedly spotted Oswald; he seems to be implying that he went to the rear of the TSBD, in the loading dock area which doesn't seem to fit in with his affidavits or testimony IIRC.
The truth is in there somewhere...
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:27 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy
If you are in any doubt about Wes being with Oswald on the steps after the assassination, I urge you to listen and in particular watch Frazier answer the questions relating to what he was doing immediately following the shots........
http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2
@ 12-36
G.M. Did you see Lee Oswald at this time after the assassination?
BWF. Um (long pause) No.
Listen through until : 15-40
If you are not convinced after listening and IMO more importantly watching Wes answer these questions, that he is a liar, then there's not much more I can say or do to convince anyone otherwise.
Smee
Very interesting video clip - BWF gets himself all confused, doesn't he?
Interesting point as to where BWF actually was when he supposedly spotted Oswald; he seems to be implying that he went to the rear of the TSBD, in the loading dock area which doesn't seem to fit in with his affidavits or testimony IIRC.
The truth is in there somewhere...
Colin Crow
From memory,
Frazier said he moved east of the steps towards the mailbox. It was from this SE corner of the front of the building he saw north up Houston and assumed Oswald had left via the Houston St dock.
- StanDane
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Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:28 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane
Ooh, interesting thought steely.
Terry Martin
Yes, very interesting. Did the police mention what they found in the car? Maybe a camera?
And perhaps not in the glove box. Probably wrapped in a paper bag (or some of that wrapping paper from the TSBD) and set in the BACK SEAT.
When Wes got home, Linnie Mae took it out of the back seat.
That way they both could "truthfully" say Oswald had set a paper bag in the back seat the item wrapped up with which he had shot the President.
- StanDane
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Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:31 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane
Ooh, interesting thought steely.
Terry Martin
Yes, very interesting. Did the police mention what they found in the car? Maybe a camera?
And perhaps not in the glove box. Probably wrapped in a paper bag (or some of that wrapping paper from the TSBD) and set in the BACK SEAT.
When Wes got home, Linnie Mae took it out of the back seat.
That way they both could "truthfully" say Oswald had set a paper bag in the back seat the item wrapped up with which he had shot the President.
Smee
Was it "...searched with negative results..."? (Rose/Adamcik report?)...
Here:
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/01/0143-003.gif
and here:
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/00/0029-001.gif
"...nothing of importance..." apparently...
- StanDane
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:32 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane
Mick Purdy
Barto
That's bloody hilarious
Thanks Stan.
- StanDane
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:34 pm
Lee Farley
I think it a possibility that when Buell Wesley Frazier told Gary Mack that he saw Lee Harvey Oswald leaving by the rear entrance shortly after the assassination it was really Buell Wesley Frazier saying he knew Lee Harvey Oswald left by the rear Houston Street entrance because he left with him.
What evidence is there that he left after being released with the other workers? None.
What evidence is there that he was told to leave by Bill Shelley and left with Oswald? Some circumstantial. First of all we have the strange departure of BWF into the TSBD basement to eat his lunch away from everyone else immediately after the assassination and nothing on record to say when he reappeared. We have his strange story of visiting the hospital after departing the TSBD to visit his abusive step-father where, once again, he goes off the radar.
As soon as the DPD and Irving Police get involved he is placed under suspicion and has a rifle removed from his home. He is taken to City Hall and put under extreme pressure. He gets a clergyman to accompany him. Upon his release from City Hall, and the clergyman departs, they swerve the car around and take him back. He is strapped to a lie-detector and is being threatened with being an accomplice in the murder of the President.
This is all pretty intense stuff.
I haven't yet toyed with the possibility but what if...
...and it's purely speculative...
...but what if he went the movies with Lee Harvey Oswald?
P.S. I'm in London after today for 3 days so will mostly be offline.
I think it a possibility that when Buell Wesley Frazier told Gary Mack that he saw Lee Harvey Oswald leaving by the rear entrance shortly after the assassination it was really Buell Wesley Frazier saying he knew Lee Harvey Oswald left by the rear Houston Street entrance because he left with him.
What evidence is there that he left after being released with the other workers? None.
What evidence is there that he was told to leave by Bill Shelley and left with Oswald? Some circumstantial. First of all we have the strange departure of BWF into the TSBD basement to eat his lunch away from everyone else immediately after the assassination and nothing on record to say when he reappeared. We have his strange story of visiting the hospital after departing the TSBD to visit his abusive step-father where, once again, he goes off the radar.
As soon as the DPD and Irving Police get involved he is placed under suspicion and has a rifle removed from his home. He is taken to City Hall and put under extreme pressure. He gets a clergyman to accompany him. Upon his release from City Hall, and the clergyman departs, they swerve the car around and take him back. He is strapped to a lie-detector and is being threatened with being an accomplice in the murder of the President.
This is all pretty intense stuff.
I haven't yet toyed with the possibility but what if...
...and it's purely speculative...
...but what if he went the movies with Lee Harvey Oswald?
P.S. I'm in London after today for 3 days so will mostly be offline.
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:36 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Lee Farley
I think it a possibility that when Buell Wesley Frazier told Gary Mack that he saw Lee Harvey Oswald leaving by the rear entrance shortly after the assassination it was really Buell Wesley Frazier saying he knew Lee Harvey Oswald left by the rear Houston Street entrance because he left with him.
What evidence is there that he left after being released with the other workers? None.
What evidence is there that he was told to leave by Bill Shelley and left with Oswald? Some circumstantial. First of all we have the strange departure of BWF into the TSBD basement to eat his lunch away from everyone else immediately after the assassination and nothing on record to say when he reappeared. We have his strange story of visiting the hospital after departing the TSBD to visit his abusive step-father where, once again, he goes off the radar.
As soon as the DPD and Irving Police get involved he is placed under suspicion and has a rifle removed from his home. He is taken to City Hall and put under extreme pressure. He gets a clergyman to accompany him. Upon his release from City Hall, and the clergyman departs, they swerve the car around and take him back. He is strapped to a lie-detector and is being threatened with being an accomplice in the murder of the President.
This is all pretty intense stuff.
I haven't yet toyed with the possibility but what if...
...and it's purely speculative...
...but what if he went the movies with Lee Harvey Oswald?
P.S. I'm in London after today for 3 days so will mostly be offline.
Smee
Nice. As I noted earlier, the truth is in there somewhere.
I guess that, when people tell lies, the lies usually contain elements of the truth since people cannot generally make something up that they think sounds plausible from absolutely nothing in a relatively short space of time and the elements of truth then form the framework around which the lies are constructed.
I believe that this is what we are seeing/hearing with BWF as time goes by - he is starting to forget the lies because they were only figments of his (or someone else's?) imagination and he is now left with memories of the true elements and he cannot recall how to construct it all properly anymore. If you watch other films he's made over the years, it becomes apparent that his story changes slightly with each one (though,in this particular case, his admitting to seeing LHO so soon after the assassination is a bit more than a slight change).
- StanDane
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Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:37 pm
Hasan Yusuf
Maybe Frazier did go to the Theater with Oswald. Could this be him?
Mr. BALL - Okay, fine, that is all, Mr. Applin.
Mr. APPLIN - But, there is one thing puzzling me.
Mr. BALL - What is that?
Mr. APPLIN - And I don't even know if it has any bearing on the case, but there was one guy sitting in the back row right there where I was standing at, and I said to him, I said, "Buddy, you'd better move. There is a gun." And he says--just sat there. He was just back like this. Just like this. Just watching.
Mr. BALL - Just watching the show?
Mr. APPLIN - No; I don't think he could have seen the show. Just sitting just like this, just looking at me.
Mr. BALL - Did you know the man?
Mr. APPLIN - No; I didn't.
Mr. BALL - Ever seen him since?
Mr. APPLIN - No, sir; didn't. I tapped him on the shoulder and said, "Buddy, you'd better move," and----
Mr. BALL - Were you scared?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, when I seen the gun I was.
Mr. BALL - Did you tell the police officer about this man?
Mr. APPLIN - No, sir; at the time, I didn't think about it, but I did tell--I didn't even think about it when I went before the Secret Service man, but I did tell one of the FBI men about it.
P.S. I believe this is the guy which the utter gonad, "Albert Doyle," thinks may have been Jack Ruby.
Maybe Frazier did go to the Theater with Oswald. Could this be him?
Mr. BALL - Okay, fine, that is all, Mr. Applin.
Mr. APPLIN - But, there is one thing puzzling me.
Mr. BALL - What is that?
Mr. APPLIN - And I don't even know if it has any bearing on the case, but there was one guy sitting in the back row right there where I was standing at, and I said to him, I said, "Buddy, you'd better move. There is a gun." And he says--just sat there. He was just back like this. Just like this. Just watching.
Mr. BALL - Just watching the show?
Mr. APPLIN - No; I don't think he could have seen the show. Just sitting just like this, just looking at me.
Mr. BALL - Did you know the man?
Mr. APPLIN - No; I didn't.
Mr. BALL - Ever seen him since?
Mr. APPLIN - No, sir; didn't. I tapped him on the shoulder and said, "Buddy, you'd better move," and----
Mr. BALL - Were you scared?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, when I seen the gun I was.
Mr. BALL - Did you tell the police officer about this man?
Mr. APPLIN - No, sir; at the time, I didn't think about it, but I did tell--I didn't even think about it when I went before the Secret Service man, but I did tell one of the FBI men about it.
P.S. I believe this is the guy which the utter gonad, "Albert Doyle," thinks may have been Jack Ruby.
- StanDane
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:39 pm
Smee
I wonder why Ball didn't ask Applin to describe the man?...
I wonder why Ball didn't ask Applin to describe the man?...
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:40 pm
Terry Martin
Interesting catch, Hasan.
A rather strange man at the theater... who'da thunk!?
Interesting catch, Hasan.
A rather strange man at the theater... who'da thunk!?
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:42 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Terry Martin
Interesting catch, Hasan.
A rather strange man at the theater... who'da thunk!?
Hasan Yusuf
A strange man for sure, Terry. It wouldn't really surprise me if he was William James Lowery. Just saying...
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:42 pm
Lee Farley
Don't forget the guy dragged out the back and bundled into a police car as seen by Bernard Haire at the rear of the Texas Theater.
Don't forget the guy dragged out the back and bundled into a police car as seen by Bernard Haire at the rear of the Texas Theater.
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:44 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane
Ooh, interesting thought steely.
Terry Martin
Yes, very interesting. Did the police mention what they found in the car? Maybe a camera?
And perhaps not in the glove box. Probably wrapped in a paper bag (or some of that wrapping paper from the TSBD) and set in the BACK SEAT.
When Wes got home, Linnie Mae took it out of the back seat.
That way they both could "truthfully" say Oswald had set a paper bag in the back seat the item wrapped up with which he had shot the President.
Steely Dan
Could be Terry. Or maybe the camera was borrowed from RP and returned to her. While we're guessing...how about an ordinary everyday cinema ticket, turning into an indestructible, pristine bus transfer a couple of hours later when LHO is "searched "again?.
- StanDane
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Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:44 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Lee Farley
Don't forget the guy dragged out the back and bundled into a police car as seen by Bernard Haire at the rear of the Texas Theater.
Hasan Yusuf
True, Lee. My money is on him being Larry Crafard; who was then placed into the same Jail cell as John Franklin Elrod.
- StanDane
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Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:46 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Lee Farley
Don't forget the guy dragged out the back and bundled into a police car as seen by Bernard Haire at the rear of the Texas Theater.
Hasan Yusuf
True, Lee. My money is on him being Larry Crafard; who was then placed into the same Jail cell as John Franklin Elrod.
Terry Martin
I swear, this case has more twists and turns (that were NOT followed up by the damned WC!) than my dog has fleas.
Well, if I had a dog, I mean.
Love that this case is being dragged kicking and screaming back into reality.
- StanDane
- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:48 pm
Steve Logan
Buell Wesley Frazier : Where's your Lunch?
Never in the history of giving testimony was a lunch so important. Even the detailed questioning of the path to eat a lunch was never srutinized this much:
Mr. BALL - What time did you knock off for lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER - 12.
Mr. BALL - Did you eat your lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; not right then I didn't. I say, you know, he was supposed to come by during our lunch hour so you don't get very many chances tosee the President of the United States and being an old Texas boy, and [he]never having been down to Texas very much I went out there to see him and justlike everybody else was, I was standing on the steps there and watched for theparade to come by and so I did and I stood there until he come by.
Mr. BALL - You went out there after you quit work?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right, for lunch.
Mr. BALL - About 12 o'clock?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - And you hadn't eaten your lunch up to that time?
Mr. FRAZIER - No.
Mr. BALL - Did you go out there with somebody?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL - Who did you go out there with?
Mr. FRAZIER - I stayed around there pretty close to Mr. Shelley and this boyBilly Lovelady and just standing there, people talking and just talking abouthow pretty a day it turned out to be, because I told you earlier it was an oldcloudy and misty day and then it didn't look like it was going to be a prettyday at all.
Mr. BALL - Then let's see, there was Billy Lovelady and you were there.
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - Anybody else you can remember?
Mr. FRAZIER - There was a lady there, a heavy-set lady who worked upstairsthere whose name is Sarah something, I don't know her last name.
Mr. BALL - Were you near the steps?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I was, I was standing about, I believe, one step downfrom the top there.
Mr. BALL - One step down from the top of the steps?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; standing there by the rail.
Mr. BALL - By steps we are talking about the steps of the entrance to theBuilding?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Shown in this picture?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Which is Commission's Exhibit No. 362. Can you come over here andshow us about where you were standing?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. Like I told you this was an entrance right here.
Mr. BALL - Yes, sir.
Mr. FRAZIER - We have a bar rail running about half way up here. This was thefirst step and I was standing right around there.
Mr. BALL - Put a mark there. Your name is Frazier, put an "F" therefor Frazier.
Mr. FRAZIER - O.K.
Mr. BALL - In the picture that would show you about there, would it?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; you can see, just see, the top, about the top railthere, was standing right in there.
Mr. BALL - Right in there?
Mr. FRAZIER - To be frank with you, I say, shadow from the roof there knockedthe sun from out our eyes, you wouldn't have any glare in the eyes standingthere.
Mr. BALL - There was a roof over your head, was there?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - Did you stand there for 30 minutes or--tell us how long you stayedthere?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I stood there until the parade come by.
Mr. BALL - Did you see the President go by?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL - Did you hear anything?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say, just right after he went by he hadn't hardly got by,I heard a sound and if you have ever been around motorcycles you know how theybackfire, and so I thought one of them motorcycles backfired because rightbefore his car came down, now there were several of these motorcycle policemen,and they took off down toward the underpass down there, and so I thought, youknow, that one of them motorcycles backfired, but it wasn't just a few secondsthat, you know, I heard two more of the same type of, you know, sounds, and bythat time people was running everywhere, and falling down and screaming, andnaturally then I knew something was wrong, and so I come to the conclusionsomebody else, somebody was shooting at somebody and I figured it was him.
Mr. BALL - You figured it was who?
Mr. FRAZIER - I figured it was somebody shooting at President Kennedy becausepeople were running and hollering so I just stood still. I have always beentaught when something like that happened or anywhere as far as that it isalways best to stand still because if you run that makes you look guilty sureenough.
Mr. BALL - Now, then, did you have any impression at that time as to thedirection from which the sound came?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, to be frank with you I thought it come from down there, youknow, where that underpass is. There is a series, quite a few number, of themrailroad tracks running together and from where I was standing it sounded likeit was coming from down the railroad tracks there.
Mr. BALL - Were you able to see the President, could you still see thePresident's car when you heard the first sound?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I couldn't. From there, you know, people were standingout there on the curb, you see, and you know it drops, you know the grounddrops, off there as you go down toward that underpass and I couldn't see any ofit because people were standing up there in my way, but however, when he didturn that corner there, there wasn't anybody standing there in the street andyou could see good there, but after you got on past down there you couldn't seeanything.
Mr. BALL - You didn't see the President's car at the time you heard the sound?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL - But you stood right there, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right. Stood right where I was.
Mr. BALL - And Mr. Shelley was still standing there?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - And also Billy Lovelady?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - The three of you didn't go any place?
Mr. FRAZIER - I believe Billy and them walked down toward that direction but Ididn't. I just stood where I was. I hadn't moved at all.
Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody after that come into the Building while you werethere?
Mr. FRAZIER - You mean somebody other that didn't work there?
Mr. BALL - A police officer.
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I stood there a few minutes, you know, and some peoplewho worked there; you know normally started to go back into the Building because a lot of us didn't eat our lunch, and so we stared back into theBuilding and it wasn't but just a few minutes that there were a lot of policeofficers and so forth all over the Building there.
Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - And before you went back into the Building no police officer came up the steps and into the building?
Mr. FRAZIER - Not that I know. They could walk by the way and I was standing there talking to somebody else and didn't see it.
Mr. BALL - Did anybody say anything about what had happened, did you hearanybody say anything about the President had been shot?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; right before I went back, some girl who had walked downa little bit further where I was standing on the steps, and somebody come backand said somebody had shot President Kennedy.
Mr. BALL - Do you know who it was who told you that?
Mr. FRAZIER - Sir?
Mr. BALL - Do you know who the girl was who told you that?
Mr. FRAZIER - She didn't tell me right directly but she just came back and more or less in a low kind of hollering she just told several people.
Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - And police officers came in there?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I would say by the time, you know some of us went back in, and it wasn't just a few minutes, I say there were several.
Mr. BALL - Did you stay on the first floor?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, stayed on the firstfloor there for a few minutes and I hadn't eaten my lunch so I had my lunchdown there in the basement and I went down there to get my lunch and eat it andI walked back up on the first floor there.
Mr. BALL - When you came back into the Building, you came in the frontdoor, didn't you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right
Mr. BALL - Did you go down to the basement immediately or did you stand aroundon the first floor?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I stood aroundfor several minutes there, you know, and then, you know, eventually the ones who hadn't eaten their lunch, some of them had taken their lunch outside.
Mr. BALL - Did other people go downstairs with you?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; they didn't.
Mr. BALL - You went down alone, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did you go at any time in the back end of the Building back near thedoor to the loading dock?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I never did.
Mr. BALL - Perhaps I had better ask you to point out on the map here where youwere. Come over here, please.
Mr. FRAZIER - O.K.
Mr. BALL - You came in back into the Building?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - Tell us where you went and what you did?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, you know like I said I come back through here [indicatingon Commission Exhibit No. 362, diagram of first floor].
Mr. BALL - By "coming back through here," you mean you came down thehallway and into the entrance into the first floor warehouse?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right, and you come by Mr. Shelley's office, that is his counterright here, after you get in, you get off here, that is his office, anyway,right out, I come out around here, you know where several of the people walkedaround here.
Mr. BALL - That is in the bin area?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; the bins don't start automatically right up in here. Isay, there is a little bit more or less, like more or less a hall through here,but anyway, you know, I say, you have two or three bins.
Mr. BALL - Through here you mean there is sort of a hall after you enter intothe warehouse?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - Right.
Mr. FRAZIER - From it, after you come past this counter you have several rowsof bins coming this way, but, I say, right after you get past, say, this lastbin right here running that way, right out this general area right here you have a telephone and everything out in here.
Mr. BALL - Well, you indicated that everything that would be beyond this line,the bin lines, would be clear on the first floor.
Mr. FRAZIER - Right, beyond here.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever go into that area where it was clear before you went downstairs?
From the time you came back into the room, did you go down into this area whichwas clear before you went downstairs?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I didn't go in here. I was right over right close to Mr.Shelley's office right around here and sit around and talked with some guysaround there.
Mr. BALL - You are indicating around Mr. Shelley's office?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; pretty close right there, like I say more or less right out over in here we have a--
Mr. BALL - Put a mark there.
Mr. FRAZIER - Let's see--
Mr. BALL - Put a circle to show the general area where you and the rest of themstood around and talked.
Mr. FRAZIER - Right in there is right around near the telephone and we werejust right around in there.
Mr. BALL - Where did you go?
Mr. FRAZIER - We left, you know, afterwe stood and talked with some guys there, some of them had eaten and some ofthem didn't, some of them had sandwiches in their hands, so naturally I feltlike eating and I walked around the bin and walked down the steps there.
Mr. BALL - Got your lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - Come back up?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I didn't comeback up. I was sitting eating my lunch. I looked at my watch and didn't havebut 10 minutes, so I naturally ate faster than normal, so I was eating a coupleof sandwiches, and eat an apple or something and come right back up and theguys, the people who worked there, standing around on the first floor, some ofthem eating their lunches and others merely talking.
Mr. BALL - You never went back to work?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; we didn't. I didn't work any more that day.
Mr. BALL - You stayed there on the job until you were told to go home?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What time did they tell you to go home?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was between 1 and 2 there sometime, roughly, I don't know whattime it was.
Mr. BALL - Had the police officers come in there and talked to you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; they come in and talked to all of us. They asked us toshow our proper identification, and then they had us to write our name down andwho to get in touch with if they wanted to see us.
Mr. BALL - Did they ask you where you had been at the time the President passed?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; they had. I told them I was out on the steps there.
Mr. BALL - Asked you who you were with?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I told them and naturally Mr. Shelley and Billy vouched for me and so they didn't think anything about it.
Mr. BALL - Did you hear anybody around there asking for Lee Oswald?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL - At any time before you went home, did you hear anybody ask for Lee?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't believe they did, because they, you know, likeone man showed us, we had to give proper identification and after we passed himhe told us to walk on then to the next man, and we, you know, put down properinformation where he could be found if they wanted to see you and talk to youany more, and then we went on up to a little bit more to the front entrancemore toward Mr. Shelley's office there with another man and stood there for alittle while and told us all that was there could go ahead and go home.
Mr. BALL - Then you went on home?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Representative FORD - Did all this occur after you had finished your lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; it did.
Representative FORD - Did it ever occur to you at any time following theshooting there was something connecting the shooting with Lee Oswald and thepackage?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say notparticularly not at that time, I didn't think anything about it because, to befrank with you, some were over here, one or two would be over here talking andjust strung out here, on the first floor and I didn't think anything about it.I see some of the guys, they go out for lunch and they come back 12:45 so Ididn't know whether he had went out to lunch or not. Some of them do everyweek.
Representative FORD - Did any of thepolicemen interfere with your efforts to go into the Building and eventuallydown into the basement where you had your lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; they didn't.
Buell Wesley Frazier : Where's your Lunch?
Never in the history of giving testimony was a lunch so important. Even the detailed questioning of the path to eat a lunch was never srutinized this much:
Mr. BALL - What time did you knock off for lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER - 12.
Mr. BALL - Did you eat your lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; not right then I didn't. I say, you know, he was supposed to come by during our lunch hour so you don't get very many chances tosee the President of the United States and being an old Texas boy, and [he]never having been down to Texas very much I went out there to see him and justlike everybody else was, I was standing on the steps there and watched for theparade to come by and so I did and I stood there until he come by.
Mr. BALL - You went out there after you quit work?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right, for lunch.
Mr. BALL - About 12 o'clock?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - And you hadn't eaten your lunch up to that time?
Mr. FRAZIER - No.
Mr. BALL - Did you go out there with somebody?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL - Who did you go out there with?
Mr. FRAZIER - I stayed around there pretty close to Mr. Shelley and this boyBilly Lovelady and just standing there, people talking and just talking abouthow pretty a day it turned out to be, because I told you earlier it was an oldcloudy and misty day and then it didn't look like it was going to be a prettyday at all.
Mr. BALL - Then let's see, there was Billy Lovelady and you were there.
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - Anybody else you can remember?
Mr. FRAZIER - There was a lady there, a heavy-set lady who worked upstairsthere whose name is Sarah something, I don't know her last name.
Mr. BALL - Were you near the steps?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I was, I was standing about, I believe, one step downfrom the top there.
Mr. BALL - One step down from the top of the steps?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; standing there by the rail.
Mr. BALL - By steps we are talking about the steps of the entrance to theBuilding?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Shown in this picture?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Which is Commission's Exhibit No. 362. Can you come over here andshow us about where you were standing?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. Like I told you this was an entrance right here.
Mr. BALL - Yes, sir.
Mr. FRAZIER - We have a bar rail running about half way up here. This was thefirst step and I was standing right around there.
Mr. BALL - Put a mark there. Your name is Frazier, put an "F" therefor Frazier.
Mr. FRAZIER - O.K.
Mr. BALL - In the picture that would show you about there, would it?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; you can see, just see, the top, about the top railthere, was standing right in there.
Mr. BALL - Right in there?
Mr. FRAZIER - To be frank with you, I say, shadow from the roof there knockedthe sun from out our eyes, you wouldn't have any glare in the eyes standingthere.
Mr. BALL - There was a roof over your head, was there?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - Did you stand there for 30 minutes or--tell us how long you stayedthere?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I stood there until the parade come by.
Mr. BALL - Did you see the President go by?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL - Did you hear anything?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say, just right after he went by he hadn't hardly got by,I heard a sound and if you have ever been around motorcycles you know how theybackfire, and so I thought one of them motorcycles backfired because rightbefore his car came down, now there were several of these motorcycle policemen,and they took off down toward the underpass down there, and so I thought, youknow, that one of them motorcycles backfired, but it wasn't just a few secondsthat, you know, I heard two more of the same type of, you know, sounds, and bythat time people was running everywhere, and falling down and screaming, andnaturally then I knew something was wrong, and so I come to the conclusionsomebody else, somebody was shooting at somebody and I figured it was him.
Mr. BALL - You figured it was who?
Mr. FRAZIER - I figured it was somebody shooting at President Kennedy becausepeople were running and hollering so I just stood still. I have always beentaught when something like that happened or anywhere as far as that it isalways best to stand still because if you run that makes you look guilty sureenough.
Mr. BALL - Now, then, did you have any impression at that time as to thedirection from which the sound came?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, to be frank with you I thought it come from down there, youknow, where that underpass is. There is a series, quite a few number, of themrailroad tracks running together and from where I was standing it sounded likeit was coming from down the railroad tracks there.
Mr. BALL - Were you able to see the President, could you still see thePresident's car when you heard the first sound?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I couldn't. From there, you know, people were standingout there on the curb, you see, and you know it drops, you know the grounddrops, off there as you go down toward that underpass and I couldn't see any ofit because people were standing up there in my way, but however, when he didturn that corner there, there wasn't anybody standing there in the street andyou could see good there, but after you got on past down there you couldn't seeanything.
Mr. BALL - You didn't see the President's car at the time you heard the sound?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL - But you stood right there, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right. Stood right where I was.
Mr. BALL - And Mr. Shelley was still standing there?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - And also Billy Lovelady?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - The three of you didn't go any place?
Mr. FRAZIER - I believe Billy and them walked down toward that direction but Ididn't. I just stood where I was. I hadn't moved at all.
Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody after that come into the Building while you werethere?
Mr. FRAZIER - You mean somebody other that didn't work there?
Mr. BALL - A police officer.
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I stood there a few minutes, you know, and some peoplewho worked there; you know normally started to go back into the Building because a lot of us didn't eat our lunch, and so we stared back into theBuilding and it wasn't but just a few minutes that there were a lot of policeofficers and so forth all over the Building there.
Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - And before you went back into the Building no police officer came up the steps and into the building?
Mr. FRAZIER - Not that I know. They could walk by the way and I was standing there talking to somebody else and didn't see it.
Mr. BALL - Did anybody say anything about what had happened, did you hearanybody say anything about the President had been shot?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; right before I went back, some girl who had walked downa little bit further where I was standing on the steps, and somebody come backand said somebody had shot President Kennedy.
Mr. BALL - Do you know who it was who told you that?
Mr. FRAZIER - Sir?
Mr. BALL - Do you know who the girl was who told you that?
Mr. FRAZIER - She didn't tell me right directly but she just came back and more or less in a low kind of hollering she just told several people.
Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - And police officers came in there?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I would say by the time, you know some of us went back in, and it wasn't just a few minutes, I say there were several.
Mr. BALL - Did you stay on the first floor?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, stayed on the firstfloor there for a few minutes and I hadn't eaten my lunch so I had my lunchdown there in the basement and I went down there to get my lunch and eat it andI walked back up on the first floor there.
Mr. BALL - When you came back into the Building, you came in the frontdoor, didn't you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right
Mr. BALL - Did you go down to the basement immediately or did you stand aroundon the first floor?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I stood aroundfor several minutes there, you know, and then, you know, eventually the ones who hadn't eaten their lunch, some of them had taken their lunch outside.
Mr. BALL - Did other people go downstairs with you?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; they didn't.
Mr. BALL - You went down alone, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did you go at any time in the back end of the Building back near thedoor to the loading dock?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I never did.
Mr. BALL - Perhaps I had better ask you to point out on the map here where youwere. Come over here, please.
Mr. FRAZIER - O.K.
Mr. BALL - You came in back into the Building?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - Tell us where you went and what you did?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, you know like I said I come back through here [indicatingon Commission Exhibit No. 362, diagram of first floor].
Mr. BALL - By "coming back through here," you mean you came down thehallway and into the entrance into the first floor warehouse?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right, and you come by Mr. Shelley's office, that is his counterright here, after you get in, you get off here, that is his office, anyway,right out, I come out around here, you know where several of the people walkedaround here.
Mr. BALL - That is in the bin area?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; the bins don't start automatically right up in here. Isay, there is a little bit more or less, like more or less a hall through here,but anyway, you know, I say, you have two or three bins.
Mr. BALL - Through here you mean there is sort of a hall after you enter intothe warehouse?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - Right.
Mr. FRAZIER - From it, after you come past this counter you have several rowsof bins coming this way, but, I say, right after you get past, say, this lastbin right here running that way, right out this general area right here you have a telephone and everything out in here.
Mr. BALL - Well, you indicated that everything that would be beyond this line,the bin lines, would be clear on the first floor.
Mr. FRAZIER - Right, beyond here.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever go into that area where it was clear before you went downstairs?
From the time you came back into the room, did you go down into this area whichwas clear before you went downstairs?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I didn't go in here. I was right over right close to Mr.Shelley's office right around here and sit around and talked with some guysaround there.
Mr. BALL - You are indicating around Mr. Shelley's office?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; pretty close right there, like I say more or less right out over in here we have a--
Mr. BALL - Put a mark there.
Mr. FRAZIER - Let's see--
Mr. BALL - Put a circle to show the general area where you and the rest of themstood around and talked.
Mr. FRAZIER - Right in there is right around near the telephone and we werejust right around in there.
Mr. BALL - Where did you go?
Mr. FRAZIER - We left, you know, afterwe stood and talked with some guys there, some of them had eaten and some ofthem didn't, some of them had sandwiches in their hands, so naturally I feltlike eating and I walked around the bin and walked down the steps there.
Mr. BALL - Got your lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - Come back up?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I didn't comeback up. I was sitting eating my lunch. I looked at my watch and didn't havebut 10 minutes, so I naturally ate faster than normal, so I was eating a coupleof sandwiches, and eat an apple or something and come right back up and theguys, the people who worked there, standing around on the first floor, some ofthem eating their lunches and others merely talking.
Mr. BALL - You never went back to work?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; we didn't. I didn't work any more that day.
Mr. BALL - You stayed there on the job until you were told to go home?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What time did they tell you to go home?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was between 1 and 2 there sometime, roughly, I don't know whattime it was.
Mr. BALL - Had the police officers come in there and talked to you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; they come in and talked to all of us. They asked us toshow our proper identification, and then they had us to write our name down andwho to get in touch with if they wanted to see us.
Mr. BALL - Did they ask you where you had been at the time the President passed?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; they had. I told them I was out on the steps there.
Mr. BALL - Asked you who you were with?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; I told them and naturally Mr. Shelley and Billy vouched for me and so they didn't think anything about it.
Mr. BALL - Did you hear anybody around there asking for Lee Oswald?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL - At any time before you went home, did you hear anybody ask for Lee?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't believe they did, because they, you know, likeone man showed us, we had to give proper identification and after we passed himhe told us to walk on then to the next man, and we, you know, put down properinformation where he could be found if they wanted to see you and talk to youany more, and then we went on up to a little bit more to the front entrancemore toward Mr. Shelley's office there with another man and stood there for alittle while and told us all that was there could go ahead and go home.
Mr. BALL - Then you went on home?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Representative FORD - Did all this occur after you had finished your lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; it did.
Representative FORD - Did it ever occur to you at any time following theshooting there was something connecting the shooting with Lee Oswald and thepackage?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say notparticularly not at that time, I didn't think anything about it because, to befrank with you, some were over here, one or two would be over here talking andjust strung out here, on the first floor and I didn't think anything about it.I see some of the guys, they go out for lunch and they come back 12:45 so Ididn't know whether he had went out to lunch or not. Some of them do everyweek.
Representative FORD - Did any of thepolicemen interfere with your efforts to go into the Building and eventuallydown into the basement where you had your lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; they didn't.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Thu 18 Aug 2016, 2:38 am
Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy
If you are in any doubt about Wes being with Oswald on the steps after the assassination, I urge you to listen and in particular watch Frazier answer the questions relating to what he was doing immediately following the shots........
http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2
@ 12-36
G.M. Did you see Lee Oswald at this time after the assassination?
BWF. Um (long pause) No.
Listen through until : 15-40
If you are not convinced after listening and IMO more importantly watching Wes answer these questions, that he is a liar, then there's not much more I can say or do to convince anyone otherwise.
Mick Purdy
Have a listen if you can....its worth it.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Thu 18 Aug 2016, 2:39 am
Stan Dane
Agree 100% Mick. Through this thread, you have completely changed my view of BWF. He should be the focus from now on. We need to somehow get him on the witness stand and grill his ass like a T-bone steak!
Agree 100% Mick. Through this thread, you have completely changed my view of BWF. He should be the focus from now on. We need to somehow get him on the witness stand and grill his ass like a T-bone steak!
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Thu 18 Aug 2016, 2:42 am
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane
Ooh, interesting thought steely.
Terry Martin
Yes, very interesting. Did the police mention what they found in the car? Maybe a camera?
And perhaps not in the glove box. Probably wrapped in a paper bag (or some of that wrapping paper from the TSBD) and set in the BACK SEAT.
When Wes got home, Linnie Mae took it out of the back seat.
That way they both could "truthfully" say Oswald had set a paper bag in the back seat the item wrapped up with which he had shot the President.
Smee
Was it "...searched with negative results..."? (Rose/Adamcik report?)...
Here:
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/01/0143-003.gif
and here:
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/00/0029-001.gif
"...nothing of importance..." apparently...
Mick Purdy
So do we have two versions of affidavits for Buell, the earlier one torn up and the one after the polygraph kept.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/00/0029-001.gif
The paper work certainly suggests this or it may be an innocent error.....
We have one taken @ 9.00 pm and another supposedly taken after the poly at around 12.30 am.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Thu 18 Aug 2016, 2:47 am
Mick Purdy
Could this be the camera which Buell handed over to Ruth after Friday's outing at the movies?
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=145932
Could this be the camera which Buell handed over to Ruth after Friday's outing at the movies?
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=145932
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Thu 18 Aug 2016, 2:49 am
Stan Dane wrote:Stan Dane
Agree 100% Mick. Through this thread, you have completely changed my view of BWF. He should be the focus from now on. We need to somehow get him on the witness stand and grill his ass like a T-bone steak!
Mick Purdy
Yes and it's all thanks to Mr Edward Shields, for whom I'm deeply grateful for his words from his HSCA interview which helped me understand the level of deceit spewing from Buell's mouth. And now a couple of months after starting this thread I believe we have reached a point where it is no longer accepted that BWF was just some poor dumb bloke in the wrong place at the wrong time.
And although I like my steak usually cooked rare, I'll make an exception this once and ask that Buell's ass is char-grilled "well done" to a crisp.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Thu 18 Aug 2016, 2:52 am
Mick Purdy
Whose name do you suppose this guys gonna paint onto the seat next to Oswald's....
Would it be "Buell Wesley Frazier"?
Whose name do you suppose this guys gonna paint onto the seat next to Oswald's....
Would it be "Buell Wesley Frazier"?
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A
Thu 18 Aug 2016, 3:02 am
Mick Purdy
And does it not make sense that Oswald would be next to his mate Buell out front watching the parade..."chewin' the fat" at lunch break.
And then after all the commotion, wander back inside the building, and out the back somewhere around that rear dock area and back out to the car.
With a mind to catch a movie .......
Pure speculation of course.
And does it not make sense that Oswald would be next to his mate Buell out front watching the parade..."chewin' the fat" at lunch break.
And then after all the commotion, wander back inside the building, and out the back somewhere around that rear dock area and back out to the car.
With a mind to catch a movie .......
Pure speculation of course.
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