Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

Milo at the Deep Foo wrote:Mr. Parker offered a defense and an iteration of facts at ROKC. When he links the facts to supporting documentation by footnoting them individually it will be time to take another look at his thesis. I'm not about to research the list of sources provided in the essay to speculate on what they actually support.

greg parker wrote:McBride interviewed Edgar Tippit in the early 1990s. What Edgar related to him was said to have been told to Marie Tippit by another cop... it is all hearsay coming from a 90 year old who McBride claims was "sharp" because, you know - CONSPIRACY - or at least certainly not based on any known criteria for determining memory function.  Yet so confident in the words of Edgar was McBride that he never bothered going and interviewing Edgar's source - Marie. 

McBride is a source that renders my thesis as "fiction"? 

What are the worst of the worst conspiracy theories in the JFK case? Those that are top-heavy reliant on dubious witnesses.

My thesis does not rely on such dubious/late arriving witnesses. 

It is a fact that Decker and Fritz were exceptionally close to WO Banksoton and that Bankston was named by Chicago Mob representative Jones in secretly recorded interviews as being a go-between to fences (movers of stolen goods).

It is a fact that Decker and Bankston were instrumental in getting an early release and pardon for Floyd Hamilton, formerly of the Barrow Gang and an expert in B & E and car theft.

It is a fact that Bankston gave Hamilton a job as night security at his car dealership.

It is a fact that Hamilton took local young parolees under his wing under cover of "charity"

It is a fact that Helen Markham was a cousin to Floyd but actually raised as his sister

It is a fact that Helen's son James was part of a local gang doing B and E's and stealing cars and was himself on parole

It is a fact that Helen Markham as well as two of James' fellow gang members, were Tippit witnesses

It is a fact that Helen Markham was hysterical after the murder and again when required to view a line-up - yet given her background, none of this should have fazed her in the slightest.

It is a fact that Fritz met Decker straight after Fritz left the TSBD for a meeting - the subject of which was never revealed

It is a fact that Mrs Oswald, along with Mark lane and a reporter, tried to interview Helen Markham but instead spoke to James.

It is a fact that it would later falsely be claimed it was not James, but his brother William who talked to them.

It is a fact that soon after this talk, the police showed up to arrest James for breach of parole and that James at that time, broke his leg after falling through a second floor window.

It is a fact that Fritz never accepted a number of offers of promotion. 

It is a fact that Potts testified to being told by Harwood that Tippit was killed "on a disturbance cal" which fits in precisely with Jackson's 1967 comment that he received a call sheet on a disturbance and tried to contact Tippit. 

It is a fact that there is a gap in the police tapes where Jackson may have actually sent Tippit to investigate such a call. 

It is a fact that gang member William Smith testified he was scared he might end up in jail by coming forward as a witness.

Given all of these facts, my conjecture that Decker and Bankston got Floyd out of jail specifically to act as a kind of Fagin figure for the local gang is reasonable - as is the premise that Mentzel, Decker and Fritz (and possibly others) were getting kickbacks from the proceeds of this operation - thus Fritz's refusal to take a promotion. He needed to stay in Robbery and Homicide to stay in the loop. 

The meeting Decker called with Fritz, I surmise, was to tell him that Helen Markham would cooperate by fingering Oswald as the Tippit killer or else James would be going back to prison. Thus Helen's hysteria. Oswald had to be scapegoated for it because any real investigation from any other agency would soon uncover the cozy little deal they had going.James talking to Marguerite and others then landed him in trouble - and on the driveway from two floors up. 

Note that I don't rely on late arriving witnesses, witnesses on the verge of dementia, or real folk tales about Badge Man, and secret plots to find Oswald and/or ambush Tippit... all of which are necessary for the purpose of finding a conspiracy - no matter the cost to the truth. Conspiracy at all and any cost is the motto of those like McBride - and apparently Mr Reech.

There was no conspiracy to have Tippit and/or Mentzel find Oswald. There was no conspiracy to ambush Tippit and frame Oswald for it.

There was a conspiracy to cover up the identity of the real killer or killers in order to protect a nice revenue stream. 

Had the assassination not happened, Mentzel would have been called to the disturbance and no murder would have taken place - given that Mentzel would have been one of those on the take from this gang. Tippit got killed because he was unknown to the gang members and they feared going to jail for any breaches of parole or other court orders. Poor dumb cop, indeed.

greg parker wrote:

Milo at the Deep Foo wrote:Mr. Parker offered a defense and an iteration of facts at ROKC. When he links the facts to supporting documentation by footnoting them individually it will be time to take another look at his thesis. I'm not about to research the list of sources provided in the essay to speculate on what they actually support.

Wow!

Can you imagine a Knight of Olde being handed a bagful of evidence about where to find the Holy Grail and tossing it aside because it wasn't laid out in the manner he demands? 

Of course not. Mr Reech is utilizing a Nutter-style excuse for avoiding evidence which would ruin his conspiracy theory which seems to be based around a Rorschach Test (Badge Man) and the very late hearsay evidence of a 90 year old on the verge of dementia.

greg parker wrote:

Jake Sykes wrote:As Goban mentioned earlier, I've offered up my basis for thinking that it is entirely possible that the two rare events, JFKA and the murder of a police officer, can easily have occurred together  in time and in placement i.e. both in Dallas on the day and as separated by 40 minutes or whatever, while being unrelated to each other. It doesn't exclude the possibility they were related, but is not evidence to that effect, in and of itself.

I do take seriously nevertheless the conviction that many including Goban retain that such a coincidence is virtually impossible without a conspiratorial connection. This makes me consider; if these two rare events were indeed unrelated, were the JFKA conspirators motivated to force that connection anyway by virtue of the knowledge that the public would never accept any such randomly occurring scenario?

Did killing Oswald in the theater really require the Tippet killing? Couldn't the police have all rushed the TT on an APB of the missing TSBD suspect seen entering the TT without Tippet ever happening? I think they could have, but as it turned out had no choice but to make the Tippet murder part of the official story; not out of the desire to bolster their Oswald is the assassin story, but out of necessity in presenting an Oswald is the assassin story that the public would ever accept. The timing and facts of it all are so very forced. Why risk that if they didn't have to, unless of course they felt that they really did have to?

In reality, the two events are related no matter which scenario you buy into. There is nothing in probability theory that suggests they have to be related by a conspiracy of any sort. 

WC scenario... if both murders were by the same "Lone Nut", the murders are related.

If Tippit was murdered to help frame Oswald on JFK, the events are related

If Tippit was murdered because he was sent in to cover the area due to the assassination draining said area, and the murderer was a parolee and part of a criminal gang that was paying the regular patrolman to turn a blind eye... then the two murders are related because the second would not have happened if not for the first (because the regular patrolman would have answered the call to the fight and the parolee would not have been in danger of being arrested) 

We all agree that the WC version is crap.

We all know that the second version is the most popular.

But for myself and maybe some others here... I just have too many issues with it from studying the actual evidence. 

In a Tippit ambush plot, why not ambush him in his own patrol area.. why go to the hassle and convoluted scenario of draining the area and then sending Tippit in?

In a Tippit ambush plot, why would the shells not match the weapon allegedly used (per Hill's original ID of said shells)?

In a Tippit ambush plot (recalling that the purpose is to frame Oswald) why the snafu with wallets and IDs?

In a Tippit ambush plot, would you really stage a fight where someone appears to be stabbed and bundled into a car? Would you then disperse and relying on luck that he finds one of you? 

It's the most haphazard and ill-conceived ambush plot in history...

At this point I';d argue that anything that clears up the mechanics of how JFK was killed and explains what Oswald thought he was up to is useful

, and all the stuff that detracts from that, that goes down wormholes that seem to lead nowhere, is not. We all need to move forward, somehow.

I'm not prepared to say the Tippit killing was unrelated to the assassination but it does seem useful at least as a thought experiment to treat it as such.

What does anybody have on J.D. Tippit? Maybe he was unknowable for the same reason that any random person with no achievements is... There's not much to know.

So he worked part-time at a barbecue owned by a klansman... That's a pretty thin connection to the far-right to go on, especially given the context of Dallas, a very right-wing city.

I think the overall choice of the city of Dallas says more about the plot to kill JFK than any very vague, six degrees of separation political connections of what appears to be a very unpolitical, unremarkable person, J.D. Tippit.

The idea that he would be killed just to give the Dallas PD some urgency to apprehend or kill Oswald does seem really dubious. I was glad to see that pointed out.

The idea of the Tippit murder being "the Rosetta stone" of the case is, ironically, Warren Commission lone nutter crap being repeated by the ostensible opposition to the official story. What if this stone is gibberish? It's worth considering.

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Its from Dale Myers' doorstop
Cheers,
Ed

Milo Reech @ the Foo wrote:Tippit: An Alternative Solution
https://www.thenewdisease.space/tippit

The Reiland film wallet did not belong to Callaway.

Problem 1 -- Warren Reynolds is the witness being interrogated by police in the film, not Callaway. The voiced over narrative has no reference to Callaway.

Problem 2 -- The passenger with Tippit's gun in Scoggins' cab was not Callaway.

1. Scoggins did not identify Callaway as the passenger.
2. Scoggins said the passenger was a young man who looked like a police officer. Callaway was an old-looking 40.
3. The passenger was unknown to Harold Russell who observed the event. Russell worked across the street from Callaway and must have followed him on Patton to the murder site.
4. Callaway could not keep a straight story, over time altering the route, eventually putting himself behind the wheel.

Milo Reech @ the Foo wrote:Tippit: An Alternative Solution
https://www.thenewdisease.space/tippit

The Disturbance Call
If one is willing to accept Murray Jackson's statement that he received a disturbance call, there is no reason to attribute the call to either Davis woman. For many reasons they were dubious witnesses, discussed at length by Don Willis last century. Check the wayback machine for acorn.net archives.

L.J. Lewis made a call from 500 E. Jefferson that might have been classified as a disturbance. He reported gunshots in "the vicinity of Tenth and Patton Avenue." Note: gunshots, not a murder. This call could have been the source of the disturbance callout sheet.

FBI reports are stylistically curious, consisting of paraphrases, summations & indirect quotations, lending themselves readily to content distortion & subject matter mutilation, as follows.

Original interview (1/21/64) report:

L. J. LEWIS, 7616 Hums, Pleasant Grove, Texas, advised he is presently self-employed as a wholesale car dealer. LEWIS advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was on the used car lot of Johnny Reynolds Used Cars together with HAROLD RUSSELL and PAT PATTERSON, during which time they heard approximately three or four gun shots coming from the vicinity of Tenth and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. Approximately one minute later he observed a white male, approximately thirty years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying either an automatic pistol or a revolver in his hands, and while running was either attempting to reload same or conceal the weapon in his belt line.

Upon reaching the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, the individual then proceeded west on Jefferson, at which time LEWIS advised he went into the office of Johnny Reynolds Used Cars and called the Dallas Police Department to advise them of the fact that the shooting had just occurred just north of the intersection of Jefferson and Patton Avenue.

LEWIS advised PAT PATTERSON and WARREN REYNOLDS attempted to follow the individual, and to the best of his knowledge, HAROLD RUSSELL had gone in the direction of Tenth and Patton Avenue to determine what had happened. LEWIS advised he later was informed that a Dallas uniform police officer had been shot at the intersection of Patton and Tenth Street in Dallas, and that in all probability the individual they had seen running south on Patton Avenue with a gun in his possession was the individual responsible for same.

LEWIS was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans PD No. 112723, dated August 9, 1963, at which time Mr. LEWIS advised due to the distance from which he observed the individual he would hesitate to state whether the individual was identical with OSWALD.

Affidavit 8/26/64:

I have been shown the written report of the results of this interview of January 21, 1964, by Special Agents John T. Kesler and Vernon Mitchem of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. While this report is substantially correct, I wish at this time to make the following clarifications in regard to the last sentence in paragraph one and the entirety of paragraph two.

"Upon hearing the shots and recognizing them as gunshot sounds, I immediately called the Dallas Police Department to report a shooting. There was so much confusion at the Police Department end of the telephone conversation, they were having trouble making out what I was telling them. A few minutes later, I observed a white male, approximately thirty years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying either an automatic pistol or a revolver in his hand, and while running was either attempting to reload same or attempting to conceal the weapon in his belt.

"Upon reaching the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Boulevard, the individual then proceeded west on Jefferson Boulevard."

I have read this written report and with the exception of the aforementioned clarifications, it reveals a correct report of what I saw on November 22, 1963.

Note the correction to the sequence of events. It also erases the silly description "that the shooting had just occurred just north of the intersection of Jefferson and Patton Avenue." Lewis actually reported that the shooting occurred in "the vicinity of Tenth and Patton Avenue," which is the intersection of the 400 block of 10th and Patton.

The record is replete with examples of materially altered testimony. Anyone who intends to take a stand based on what does or does not appear in an FBI report must sift the content very carefully or risk falling victim to a cruel hoax.

This will come up again.

Milo Reech @ the Foo wrote:Tippit: An Alternative Solution
https://www.thenewdisease.space/tippit

Five witnesses saw Tippit at Gloco, and their presence is fatal to the alternative thesis. Undermining them is no easy task, and straining to make innocuous things look sinister requires the reader to let go of reality and countenance a nutty conversion of a busy gas station into a baleful rumor mill.

The Ramparts article says Turner was 'acting on a tip from "sleuth" David Lifton.' No idea why this is suspicious. If more information was desired Turner could have been reached before 12/26/15. Lifton is still alive, posts at EF and perhaps elsewhere. Drop him a line, using a surrogate if necessary.

The gas station was not in Tippit's assigned district, but Tippit spent so much time at 410 E. 10th Charlie Virginia Davis thought he lived there, telling WC Tippit's police car "was parked between the hedge that marks the apartment house where he lives in and the house next door."

Scoggins "used to see him every day."

The idea that calling in a false location was risky in the days before GPS is hilarious, but it would hardly matter to Tippit one way or the other. Page one says "errors in judgment may be expected."

As for the FBI interviews of Mullins & Lewis, the absence of Tippit's name from the reports is meaningless. There is no reason to assume they were comprehensive. Maybe the witnesses mentioned Tippit in conversation, maybe they didn't, and that's all there is to that. See the preceding post for more on FBI reports.

Vinny wrote:because we all know about the FBI documents. You just can't trust them. Unless they can be twisted to support your idiotic theories.


This seems similar to the Harvey and Lee gang. They too claim that the FBI records were faked except when it supports their theory.